Royal Air Force: 100th.' Birthday?

[aw ditor]

Will the Royal Air Force make it' to "100" or will it revert (or be reverted!) to its' RFC and RNAS beginnings?

[Door Slider]

I would imagine there is more chance of the RAF seeing 1 April 2018 than the
(Modern) AAC seeing its centenary on 1 Sep 2057?

Who really knows what's going to happen in years to come, the only certainty is less ac and less cash!

[Tankertrashnav]

Maybe in 2018 it could revert to its original form with the army pilot and the naval pilot taking it in turns to fly the single aircraft :(

[The Helpful Stacker]

Maybe in 2018 it could revert to its original form with the army pilot and the naval pilot taking it in turns to fly the single aircraft

Surely its 'original' form would involve two seperate forces spending great deals of money to develop essentially identical aircraft to operate in largely identical roles?

[Dash8driver1312]

At least the USAF will be able to celebrate by having flybys with Strats and Herky-Birds! Although Crab Air's only machine with internal bomb stowage is even older than the BUFF...

[Tankertrashnav]

Although Crab Air's only machine with internal bomb stowage is even older than the BUFF...


I suppose you're not counting Vulcan XH 558 as "Crab Air" doesn't own it any more.

Whether it will still be flying in 2018 is another matter, of course!

[Ken Scott]

Will the Royal Air Force make it' to "100" or will it revert (or be reverted!) to its' RFC and RNAS beginnings?

Yes, and no.

This tired old subject gets aired frequently, usually by those who covet the resources of the RAF.

[Lima Juliet]

Here you go, from here http://www.dasa.mod.uk/publications/UK-defence-statistics-compendium/2012/chapter-4-formations-vessels-aircraft-and-vehicles/2012-chapter-4-formations-vessels-aircraft-and-vehicles.pdf

The 2012 Forward Available Fleet (FAF) for non-training aircraft are as follows:

RN – Forward Available Fleet
21x Merlin ASW
29x Lynx ASW
11x Sea King HAR
10x Sea King ASACS
22x Commando Sea King
12x Hawk T1
Total 105

Army – Forward Available Fleet
50x Lynx/Wildcat
12x Gazelle
49x Apache
3x Islander
9x D4K
Total 123

RAF – Forward Available Fleet
94x Tornado GR4
60x Typhoon
5x Shadow R1
3x Sentinel R1
4x Sentry AEW1
5x Reaper
8x VC10
16x Sea King HAR
5x Tristar
17x Hawk T1A
5x BAe 125
2x BAe 146
6x C-17
24x C-130
29x CH47 Chinook
12x Puma
20x Merlin Mk3
Total 315

And this does not include the myriad of RAF training aircraft that total over 500+ airframes

So, why, oh, why would we gift the HMForces' premier air power experts to Captain Birdseye and Teeny-Weeny Airways? :ugh:

Next?

LJ :hmm:

[The Helpful Stacker]

8x VC10

Ermm.... ;)

Overall point still stands though.

[Lima Juliet]

I know, but these are 2012 figures and not 2013. It doesn't include lots of things planned...

Loss of VC10
Loss of Commando Sea King
Reduction down to 5x AAC Regts
Loss of Tornado
Loss of SAR Force
Loss of Herc K

or

Gain of Voyager
Gain of A400
Gain of BAe 146
Gain of extra Chinooks
Gain of F35 by RAF/RN
Loss of Merlin from RAF to RN's gain

However, the planned losses and gains balance out about the same all-in-all...

LJ :ok:

[Roland Pulfrew]

To play devil's advocate of course since LJ's 2012 list:

GR4 force in decline with 1 of those sqns disbanded and another to go next year
Shadow - UOR theoretical OSD at the "end of Afghanistan"
Sentinel - OSD as above
Reaper - UOR as above
VC10 - gone
Sea King - gone in 2016/17
Tristar - gone by Mar 14
125 - gone at the end of Afg
146 - as above
C130 - force start retiring sometime shortly after Afg
Chinook and Puma - essentially belong to CGS
Merlin - force off to the FAA shortly

all taken from open source info

Doesn't leave much really does it? :{

Now I know that there are lots of plans being worked on and there (a small number of) new types on the horizon, but even so.......

[newt]

RN – Forward Available Fleet
21x Merlin ASW
29x Lynx ASW
11x Sea King HAR
10x Sea King ASACS
22x Commando Sea King
12x Hawk T1


So if you want to save money.........................................:ugh:

[Lima Juliet]

Roland

Reaper is the likely contender for SCAVENGER (or if not another armed MALE RPAS to replace it)
Sentinel may escape execution next SDSR
Voyager on delivery
A400 Grizzly on delivery
F35 Lightning on delivery soon
Merlin Mk3 being replaced by 14 new buy Chinooks
Puma in upgrade
Rumours of MPA for SDSR15 (just to shut up the N-word bunch :ok:)
Plus I would be very surprised if Shadow went unfunded after Afg!

Finally, Taranis has just flown and who knows if it won't lead to more things...

So, it isn't that bleak if you put on those slightly light pink tinted specs! :}

LJ

PS. Try telling CAS, AMP, AOC 22, AOC 2, Cdr JHC (RAF 2 star) and Commandant Cranwell that CH47 is a CGS asset - all have very good reason to be fond of the wokka-wokka!

[Widger]

Errm. If you are going to start using Uav/uas/rpas in your figures you might find tge Royal Artillery are bigger than the lot of you.

[Lima Juliet]

Widger - it might stretch to the 54(?) Watchkeepers that the RA are still waiting to get to replace the Hermes 450s. Otherwise, I would offer that DH3 and Black Hornet doesn't really count or I'll count Stormshadow, Trident, Tomahawk, ASRAAM, AMRAAM and Meteor!

If you look at ASRAAM it has 6x transputers on board that is more brainpower than 80,000 pongos! :p

[Squirrel 41]

Reaper is the likely contender for SCAVENGER (or if not another armed MALE RPAS to replace it)
Sentinel may escape execution next SDSR
Voyager on delivery
A400 Grizzly on delivery
F35 Lightning on delivery soon
Merlin Mk3 being replaced by 14 new buy Chinooks
Puma in upgrade
Rumours of MPA for SDSR15 (just to shut up the N-word bunch )
Plus I would be very surprised if Shadow went unfunded after Afg!

And the small matter of 3 x RJ... ("Airseeker R Mk. 1", anyone :hmm:)

S41

[Lima Juliet]

Squirrel

Well done - I wondered when someone would spot that!

...said in my best Capt Manwaring voice!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Leon, I know, I did say I was playing devil's advocate ;). And I'm very much aware of the chinook mafia around the Air Force; still say JHC belongs to CGS though ;)

Didn't realise we were getting any Grizzlies, I thought we were getting some Atlases though.

And as for Taranis and Scavenger, I won't hold my breath!! :yuk:

[Lima Juliet]

Roland

You're right, Atlas it is - d'oh! :ouch:

The trouble with Devil's Advocate is that some dumb schmuck from the press will believe it!

LJ

PS I hear that some call it the (f)Atlas(s) in keeping with Fat Albert!

[aw ditor]

KS'

It may be a "tired old subject" but rumour hath it that it is around again in the "Corridors of Power". And this is a Rumour Network'.

AD'

[Martin the Martian]

So how come the Navy's Hawks are included in that list?

[Party Animal]

Rumours of MPA for SDSR15 (just to shut up the N-word bunch http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


LJ, the N-word is so last decade. It's the P-word now don't ya know. ;)

(followed by the number 8)!

[Ken Scott]

AD,

It may be a "tired old subject" but rumour hath it that it is around again in the "Corridors of Power".

Only because the Pongos & Fishheads keep pushing it onto the agenda.

Expand the RAF Regiment & re-introduce the RAF boat section & we could absorb both of them.......Royal Air Land and Sea Force anyone?

[WhiteOvies]

Dash 8 - F-35 has internal bomb stowage, they're new,and the RAF/RN has 3 with more coming.... Just saying! ;)

[Dash8driver1312]

Put them actually into service and I'll accept your point.