Night VFR flying season - be careful out there.

[AdamFrisch]

Since Night VFR flying season is coming up in many parts of the northern hemisphere, and is legal in most countries, I thought I'd share two stories that scared me and were good lessons. I fly at night about 11% (from current logbook). This is in the US and the LA basin mainly, which isn't very difficult night flying by any standards (it's like a bl**dy christmas tree below!:}). Most of my night flying takes place over built up areas, but on occasions I have caught myself at the tail end of daylight racing back to civilisation over the mountains and I can't say I enjoy that feeling, knowing there are peaks below me (even in a twin). I avoid night flying over mountains at all costs.

One eye opener and how quickly you can find yourself disoriented at night happened to me about 2 years ago: I needed to be at Inoykern Airport in the Owen's Valley by the next morning for a job. Inoykern is in the high desert, surrounded to the west by the mighty Sierra Nevadas (with peaks well above 14K feet) and to the left by the biggest military restricted area in California. It's squeezed in between a rock and a hard place, literally. The drive by car was closer to 4hrs, so I'd decided early on to fly. Unfortunately, my days work in LA dragged on and it was 9pm before I could get out to the airport and get going. By now it was obviously pitch black. WX was good, but I was tired and I should in all honesty have left early the morning after instead. I guess the time pressure got to me. Anyway, for the first 30 mins out, with all the lights beneath me from SF Valley and Palmdale, it was dead easy and similar to much other night flying I'd done. But just past Mojave the lights go away, and the terrain is not only rising, you're coming up to the foothills of the Sierras. You need to be on point with your navigation, or you'll end up a mountainside ornament.

I followed the road up through the mountains at good altitude, but it was late on a weekday, so visual references were far and few between (i.e. no cars) and also single point. Finally, the PTT lit the airport up with its three rwy's like a Christmas tree in the distance - a welcome sight! The airport is right on the restricted airspace line, so I set up for a right downwind as per published procedure. Afraid to bust the R, and afraid to get too low, I realise I've turned final way too early and am way too high. As much as I try, I'm not going to make it down even on this long rwy. It was go around time. But as soon as I turn right crosswind, all my references go away and I'm left with nothing but pitch blackness low to the ground. The rwy lights fade away as they time out and I can see the glow go out in the reflection under my nacelles. Now I was facing rising terrain and the Sierras out there in darkness as I continued my turn to the downwind. It felt like the turn took forever and that earth was going to come up and grab me. The temptation is to increase the bank to keep it tight. It was like being inside a black bag at the bottom of the deepest sea trench. Afraid to do the same mistake again and be too high, but also fighting the feeling of rising terrain coming up to smythe me, I had to trust that the VFR chart was correct, that I wasn't too far off. My instinct was to climb, climb, climb and get away from earth (which, undoubtedly is better than the opposite). It was very disorienting without any visual cues. Thankfully, I had some basic instrument training by then, and just steeled myself to trust what they said. I decided I'd rather bust the R a little than have to do another go around, so I extended a bit more. I came in better, but it was still that "black hole" feeling on final when you don't really know if you're high enough to clear terrain, or too low or what, and the rwy lights are blinding you. I was very happy to be on the ground after that second approach.

Second story is much simpler. I had had ground school for my IR theory at Hawthorne and flown in at daylight. GS finished at around 9pm and I started preparing for my short return flight to home field. Hawthorne is very close to the coast and frequently gets the marine layer fog rolling in during the spring months. Tower was closed, but ATIS gave clear skies. I walked out on taxiway and looked at weather towards the coast, which was the direction I was taking off in. It looked clear, I could see streetlights and I could see the aircraft taking off from LAX right next to it. No problem. Started up and lined up. As I rotated it was like the city and rwy lights beneath me flickered in unison at about 100ft. Strange, I thought - then I realised they were all suddenly gone and so were the rwy lights. I'd taken off right into the marine layer/fog. "Well, this is it Adam, this is what you've been training for" I said to myself as I righted that Artificial Horizon. "Standard rate turns now, old chap" - don't get excited. I popped above it at 700ft in a gentle crosswind turn. Nothing to it really, but sobering nevertheless the moment it happens. One mile down the downwind the layer had stopped and it was perfect VFR from then on.:ok:

When you lose visual cues at night, it really can become disorienting very quickly. Just a simple takeoff out over water at night can be enough to get you in trouble. Make sure you have basic instrument skills and are comfortable flying on them. Don't have to be over the top or IR rated by any means, just make sure you can fly straight and level and can do standard rate turns using only instruments.

Be safe. Night flying is very rewarding, but doesn't suffer fools.

http://www.adamfrisch.com/images/n20ve/uma.jpg
Be safe out there and enjoy the beauty of night flight. It's spectacularly rewarding, but can be unforgiving.

[flarepilot]

adam

nice of you to write about your experiences. even the best NIGHT flying is semi instrument environment and must be approached with caution.

having flown extensively in california and up by inyokern and trona and more crazy, crazy places...some people just don't understand.


one should also consider using supplemental oxygen at much lower altitudes at night to improve night vision.

if you are approaching a mountain range and see fewer lights...you better climb until you see more and more lights....

[Straighten Up]

Good stories, thank you. It's nice to see people sharing their experiences like this - too often people are sitting on the ground picking over accidents and mistakes rather than concentrating on the things we've done right. I always try and think what I did right when I nail a landing rather than just pick apart what I did wrong on a bounce or a go-around.

As a new ppl this is exactly the sort of stuff I (and I'm sure others) need to read.

Thanks again.

[AdamFrisch]

Flare, Straighten - thank you.

Yep, the Owen's Valley is a notorious place often with 50kts gusting winds. It can be very unforgiving with the terrain. Thankfully this night I had no real wind to deal with.

As for oxygen, they do recommend that over 5500ft one should start considering it at night. Apparently it will help your eyesight a lot.

[flarepilot]

a couple of more points.


with modern resources such as google maps/satellite images, check out your route via satellite image as well as proper charts.

a couple of years ago, I offered an unfamiliar airport entry pattern that allowed you to fly over the airport, circle it at safe altitude (pattern altitude plus 500's) observe and then enter the pattern by pre determined headings to get you to the downwind safely via a 45 entry.

it was taught to me by a b17 instructor from WW2. largely poohpoohed by the european intelligencia...


you all be careful out there

[Big Pistons Forever]

Flying VFR at night safely requires good risk management. This needs to start with identifying and mitigating those unique to night flight risks for every phase of flight.

At the risk of being a killjoy sadly many pilots don't give night flying the respect it deserves. That is why a study of non instrument rated US PPL's flying SEP's found they were between 15 and 25 times more likely to have a fatal accident on any given flight as compared to the same flight flown during daylight hours.

Solid instrument flying skills are IMO a non optional requirement for safe night flight

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Solid instrument flying skills are IMO a non optional requirement for safe night flight
The only night flying I've done was on some IMCr lessons. Immediately after take-off, nothing to see, I went straight onto instruments. (Instructor, a few seconds later, "you might want to go onto instruments".)

I can't imagine being happy trying to do even a night take-off without instrument capability! And that's before you worry about flying into a cloud you didn't see.

[rich_g85]

Adam,
I'm halfway through the training for a Night Rating (or Qualification?) and found your real world experiences very sobering. Thank you for sharing.

[dublinpilot]

Thanks Adam for sharing!

[Blind Squirrel]

Couldn't agree more. Night VFR is lovely, but it demands to be taken very seriously. High minima are essential (for me, basically, CAVOK). And if you're not capable and comfortable in transitioning to instruments from the moment of rotation, you're not ready for night solo.

Also give thought to what you're flying over. When I was younger, I flew in singles after dark across some truly atrocious terrain without ever giving it a second thought. Having experienced a complete engine failure -- mercifully in the daytime -- I now know it can happen to me. My night routes these days involve a lot more zig-zags, from one illuminated airport to the next, but Mrs Squirrel and the kits sleep a lot more soundly as a result.

[flarepilot]

one other thing to consider at night is doing a circle of the departure airport climbing all the way to cruise altitude and then proceeding on course.

this may be useful if departing an airport hemmed in by mountains, or near a body of water.

it will allow for a longer glide after departing the safety of your departure airport.

I had to use this in an MU2 due to smoke from a wild fire filling the valley near Quincy, California...as there were no navaids available within range until climbing above the mountains.

[RatherBeFlying]

Yep, you can go IMC in the blink of an eye at night.

On a dark night without lights on the ground and no moon, it's the instruments that will keep you from hitting something as long as you observe minimum altitudes. In the pre-GPS days in North America, the VOR airways gave you terrain clearance -- still do;)

The Kennedy accident was a classic case of disorientation in dark night VFR. Confusing which lights are stars and which are distant habitation can be fatal. Or perhaps a sloping cloud or fog deck presented a false horizon.

So on a dark night, your scan needs to integrate both the outside and the instruments.

Oh yes, it's much harder to read a VFR chart at night. The IFR chart has the essentials and is easy to make out.

During the day I can look at a VFR chart while maintaining attitude with peripheral vision -- can't do it in a dark night.

Taking off at night, promptly going on the AH, especially on black hole departures, assures a positive climb rate.

If there's no IFR approach to follow, flying a complete circuit helps a lot in not hitting something on a mistakenly shallow approach.

There's a lot in the discipline of flying IFR that carries over to night VFR, but please do remember that remaining in IMC requires a clearance.

[fireflybob]

And what have EASA done? Got rid of the requirement for 5 hours dual instrument flying to qualify for the Night Rating in the UK!!

This is because "VFR at night" was permitted in some States in Europe which means you don't (legally) require any instrument qualification. In the UK all flying at night was IFR (apart from Special VFR) so the EU laws would prevent pilots with an instrument qualification flying at night. So UK had to dumb down to the EU rules and permit "VFR at night".

However the other provisions of IFR still apply - ie the Minimum Height Rule 1,000 ft above highest with 5 nm and the Quadrantal Rule apart from some exceptions.

In my opinion this will be a considerable degradation in safety wrt night flying in the UK - typical EASA nonsense.

[Whopity]

And what have EASA done? Got rid of the requirement for 5 hours dual instrument flying to qualify for the Night Rating in the UK!!
Nothing to do with EASA; the JAA did that 14 years ago to align JARs with FARs
However the other provisions of IFR still apply - ie the Minimum Height Rule 1,000 ft above highest with 5 nm How does Rule 33 apply to VFR Flight?

[mm_flynn]

However the other provisions of IFR still apply - ie the Minimum Height Rule 1,000 ft above highest with 5 nm and the Quadrantal Rule apart from some exceptions.

In my opinion this will be a considerable degradation in safety wrt night flying in the UK - typical EASA nonsense.

In the UK, for a non-IR/non-IMC pilot IFR and VFR rules were virtually identical.
The main differences where
* quadrantals mandatory above TA IFR vs VFR being highly recommended
* much lower visibility and cloud clearance requirements IFR vs VFR
* non-IR/IMC pilot not allowed into Control Areas at all (and only into Control zones on SVFR)(at night)
* Surface hugging operations VFR need to be less than 140 knots where as IFR less than 250 knots
* A technical difference in minimum height rule for high ground when the aircraft is above 3000 feet MSL.

None of those differences make any material positive contribution to safety.
Realistically, I am not sure there were any practical differences from an ATC perspective either.

It is broadly a good thing the UK has cleaned up the logic and allows VFR at night rather than pretend IFR that is really VFR (along with the hopeless confusion this always caused). We now have a simple system where VFR is for flying when you can see to establish attitude, terrain and traffic separation and IFR is for when you can't (and needs an instrument flying rating)

[fireflybob]

Whopity the Min Ht Rule still applies to VFR at night.

Thanks for correction that it was JAR (still effectively a Europe type decision?) that deleted the 5 hours IF but I still think that was a stupid change - ever flown into cloud inadvertently at night?

[fireflybob]

As far as I can tell an exemption from Rule 20 will apply till Dec 2014 when the SERA VFR at night rules will apply.

There will also be a requirement for a minimum cloud ceiling of 1,500 ft - yet another restriction when it's perfectly fit for circuits at my local airfield where the circuit height is 800 ft and, for example, the cloud ceiling might be 1,000 ft?

[mm_flynn]

As you have pointed out, the VFR rules are generally more restrictive than the IFR rules ( in particular with the extra visibility requirements and marginally restrictive min height now imposed for night VFR). How does this degrade safety (as in your original comment). Other than the argument there will be some nights where the weather is now too poor to fly VFR but in the old days you could fly 'IFR' but without an IR/IMC.

I can see an argument the additional restrictions are annoying or unnecessary, but an argument that it reduces safety .... Difficult to see that.

[fireflybob]

mm flynn, maybe I wasn't clear but I see the deletion of 5 hours instrument flying instruction to qualify for the Night Rating (or is it a Qualification - one day they might make their minds up) as a reduction in safety especially as this thread was started with respect to the "risks" of flying VFR at night.

Yes there may be an argument that the increased visibility and ceiling requirements might make it safer but it is much easier to inadvertently enter cloud at night than by day.

I had a feeling that someone would come up with those arguments - I am attempting to see things from a common sense and experience angle rather than an arbitrary set of rules merely to comply with Euroland.

Under the new rules if the cloud ceiling is 1300 ft but the visibility below is 50 km then we will not be able to fly circuits at 800 ft? I presume places with controlled airspace will be ok if the ATC are happy to issue a Special VFR but, legally speaking, in this situation it will be no flying at the minor airfields.

[AdamFrisch]

How much instrument training is allocated in the syllabus for the EASA PPL? I agree that having no instrument training at all and flying VFR at night is dangerous.

It's been a few years since I did the standalone FAA PPL conversion, but I have to say I can't recall much instrument training in it. Maybe that's because it was deemed not necessary as I was converting or showed adequate skills. The odd unusual attitudes recovery on instruments, but that was about it as I recall. In any case, there was certainly no talk whatsoever about standard rate turns on the Turn Coordinator, partial panel etc - essential knowledge to have, I'd say. And dead easy to teach and implement. It should be part of the syllabus.

[mm_flynn]

I can't remember there being any specific 'instrument' training in the night rating. It was just 5 hours of basically night VFR training and as far as I can tell that still is what is required for an EASA night rating. The instrument training in the PPL (as in flight under a hood by sole reference to instruments) seems to be the same for FCL and EASA PPLs (I,e, minimal) but more than the old CAA ppl. Whereas the FAA ppl has a specific 3 hour instrument training requirement (along with a separate night training requirement).

Overall I agree night flight without at least some instrument capability is asking for trouble. However, I just don't see these changes as reducing the training requirement or reducing the safety margins. However, I do concede there could be some irritating nights where the visibility is great but the cloud deck is at 1200 feet stopping people from doing circuits.

On a personal basis I would fly all night as a full IFR operation, with IFR reserves and at more than 1300 feet above the highest terrain (or 1000 feet above charted obstructions)

[Desert185]

FAR 61.109 outlines the night and instrument training still required for the FAA PPL.

[JDA2012]

As an 85h PPL+NR I have a grand total of 1 hour IFR logged, all dual: 45m during my PPL, 5m during my skills test and 10m during my Night Rating

The PPL skills test includes a rate one turn in simulated IMC and as such training for this is part of the syllabus. Partial panel has been discussed but I have not yet flown under those restrictions - IR(R) starting this weekend so will cover that then.

[fireflybob]

I am here looking at the old Night Rating syllabus (before JAR) which states (inter alia) "The required 5 hours instrument flying of which 2.5 hours may be carried out on an approved instrument simulated flight trainer should be completed before first solo at night".

Sounds very sensible to me.

[mm_flynn]

I am here looking at the old Night Rating syllabus (before JAR) which states (inter alia) "The required 5 hours instrument flying of which 2.5 hours may be carried out on an approved instrument simulated flight trainer should be completed before first solo at night".

Sounds very sensible to me.

Yes but apparently long discontinued by JAA-FCL and now EASA night rating requirements. Everything reasonable current shows JDA2012s experience is what has been the required training for some time. (Not saying it is or is not sufficient - just what is required by the regulator)

[Romeo Tango]

Night flying with light aircraft is very different in the UK (compared to USA) due to the lack of friendly places open after dark, the CAA's disapproval of VHF activated lights and the general attitude of airfields to operations after hours.

I have lights on my strip but cannot really let anyone else use them due to unlit trees on the approach. They tend to only get used when coming in from a long way away so I can take off in daylight.

[AdamFrisch]

Night flying with light aircraft is very different in the UK (compared to USA) due to the lack of friendly places open after dark, the CAA's disapproval of VHF activated lights and the general attitude of airfields to operations after hours.

Isn't there some kind of mobile phone solution for this? You text or call a number and it activates the rwy lights.

[dash6]

There is no answer to GA Airfields attitude. Except lots of money for insurance,updating of facilities,education,above all,Demand! Why bother when one aircraft a week wants to do it? Usually just to keep a rating they never use current? Don't get me wrong,I would love to see more night flying but the expense is prohibitive in the UK. Oh yes, forgot the biggest problem 'cos it applies 24/7.The Brits Hate Light Aviation.

[BigEndBob]

As soon as we pull out of Europe, all we need to do is go back to the syllabui we had in 1995. Nothing wrong back then with NFT's and GFT's, other than add say radio aids and now gps.
Night flying with next to no IF is madness.

[maxred]

Don't get me wrong,I would love to see more night flying but the expense is prohibitive in the UK. Oh yes, forgot the biggest problem 'cos it applies 24/7.The Brits Hate Light Aviation.

Whatever gave you that idea....

I remember trying to organise some night flying at an airfield, to be told, we don't do that. If I recollect, the situation changed to, a specific one night a week where they would put the lights on. Tough **** if the weather was inclement.

I also remember arriving a certain GA airfield, where they refused to put the lights on, stating they were going home and were effectively shut. We landed in the darkness.:cool:

Night flying is an instrument recency situation. Funnily enough, I tagged my night onto my IMCr, and I love flying at night, but have actually done very little, where on a great clear night, lets go flying, should be the order.

Other things tend to get in the way, hence, the few GA aeroplanes that appear to do it.

[Victorian]

On a more positive note, a good thing to do while in Las Vegas is a night checkout. That's a regular rental checkout (or BFR), but at night.

The city lights are something else, but nothing compared with the inky blackness just a few miles away out over the lake (Lake Mead). That's a really good place for your check pilot to try some unusal attitudes on you!

It's quite amazing how that blazing furnace of lights vanishes as soon as you cross the first mountain range in that crystal clear air. No reflecting layer, no afterglow, just pitch black. Something you could never see in hazy Europe, except perhaps far in the North.

[Blind Squirrel]

Indeed...but that ridge between Las Vegas and Lake Mead is a significant one. Mount Wilson rises up to 5,500 AMSL, and with a black mountain range in front of a black lake, it's really easy not to notice that it's there. It's even worse to the west. The Spring Mountains, which begin five miles from the end of RWY 25L/R at KLAS and rise faster than most light aircraft can climb, go all the way up to 12,000' and seem to snag a couple of the unwary every year. That's a part of the world in which it's vital to know exactly where you are.

[Dave Wilson]

Funnily enough I've just been night flying and threw an approach in as well. The night flying isn't a problem (apart from loosing the lighting on the DI, that made for an interesting PAR...), I find the problem is on the ground. I sailed blithely past my taxiway turn off and had to backtrack, then fumbled around trying to find the pan; all this on an airfield I've used hundreds of times.

I might add though there's no ambient lighting, once you're parked up and switched off its pitch black.

[flarepilot]

even as we write about night flying, a Beech Bonanaza A36 has gone missing in Idaho (USA). Wilderness area,night, only airfield nearby is a turf runway without lights...vectors attempted to near the field as pilot radios engine problems

72 hours later, still missing, weak ELT.

Wait continues for word of San Jose pilot, family members on missing plane - San Jose Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24643966/search-resumes-today-missing-san-jose-pilot-his)

look up the airfield, ouch
AirNav: 3U2 - Johnson Creek Airport (http://www.airnav.com/airport/3U2)

[Pace]

this to me shows the stupidity of some of the regulations and also the reluctance to change from what used to be.
Night flying without proper instrument training is madness.
In the UK the Night rating should have been attached to the IMCR rating as part of or an add-on.
any problem at night is doubled so not a good situation for a low time PPL with little experience tacking on a night rating?
the chance of flying inadvertently into cloud is huge.
I remember only too well flying back in a twin to my home airfield. This was near a river and had no ground radio at this time.
The lights had been left on for my arrival. Flying overhead the lights were perfectly clear and the same down the approach. When I hit the flare point probably 12 feet up the screen went white and I landed in thin river fog and 200 meters visibility much to my horror.
Other than flying circuits at the home airfield it is madness to let a low time VFR only PPL loose with a so called night rating without at minimum an IMCR rating.

Pace

[RatherBeFlying]

even as we write about night flying, a Beech Bonanaza A36 has gone missing in Idaho (USA). Wilderness area,night, only airfield nearby is a turf runway without lights...vectors attempted to near the field as pilot radios engine problemsEven if the pilot did not hit steep terrain on his way to an unattended valley bottom strip, most likely there would be considerable snow on the strip.

Yes, it does help to think of terrain below in the event a forced landing has to be made. I've flown single engine at night over the Alleghenies and an unforecast ceiling pushed me down to 4500' -- but I was by myself with survival equipment.

My favorite poster:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca-standards/tp5306e.pdf

[AdamFrisch]

even as we write about night flying, a Beech Bonanaza A36 has gone missing in Idaho (USA). Wilderness area,night, only airfield nearby is a turf runway without lights...vectors attempted to near the field as pilot radios engine problems

Oh my god, poor sod. I've landed at Johnson Creek (see video). It is the very last place on earth I'd want to do an approach to at night. Mountains all around. It's nerve wrecking enough in daylight. I hope to god he had EVS installed or else I fear there's little hope.

Sporty landing at Johnson Creek, ID with the Commander. With audio commentary. - YouTube

[Pace]

The only piston single i would happily fly at night over fog banks, low cloud etc would be a Cirrus!!! if it all goes pear shaped pull the chute.
one time I would pull the chute in the Cirrus.

never seen so many aircraft lining the side of the runway as in the above clip :)

Pace

[Desert185]

AdamFrisch:

If you go back again, go to Yellow Pine and fly the dirt road in the canyon to Johnson Creek. Be configured and slow, ~150' AGL, by the second ranch north of JC on final.

JC is great when there isn't a fly-in. My backcountry group calls it JFK. Much rather camp at Wilson Bar or Thomas Creek.

TFR centered over JC, so they're still looking. 0dF at MYL west of JC this morning. Hopes and prayers...

[AdamFrisch]

Desert - I did that on my first arrival. Low and slow up the valley and that worked very well. But all the little Cubs and Maules were turning within the canon, so I got envious and wanted to see if I could do it myself. Practiced on bigger valley further up and finally picked up the courage to do it here. Once you've started the turn, you're pretty much out of options if the turning radius turns out to be wider than the canyon…:} It all worked out fine, but I turned too early, afraid too give up altitude and had to do all this low level acrobatics just to get her down.

I hope they find that Bonanza.

[A le Ron]

I must admit, I have only really found my night rating useful since I have had an IMC rating. Before that, it was not really usable except for local trips in perfect conditions, and even then I lacked the confidence to do much with it.

[Dave Wilson]

I did my night and IMC at the same time. Personally I wouldn't have considered a night rating on its own.

[turbulentmonkey]

Why not? Having the night restriction removed from your license is very useful on it's own/without an IMC rating. Yes, an IMC rating is obviously advantageous but it's not required to fly after sunset. Flying at night is a 'blend' of instruments and visual cues - this is taught during the PPL course, night training and learned through experience. I've had some great night flights since having the restriction removed and I've always felt safe and confident in my abilities.

I agree that without an IMC rating/IR and good weather you shouldn't fly at night but the same can be said for flying during the day. It all comes down the the pilots decision-making abilities and whether they feel safe and competent.

With regards to the people missing in Idaho, hopes and prayers are with them.

[Dave Wilson]

Valid points TM but I just wouldn't have felt comfortable flying at night without one. My money, my call. Can't say I actually enjoy it TBH. The actual night flying is always a pleasure, it's the refuelling in the dark and putting the thing away in the dark that are a pain. Fine if you have lighting but I/we don't and it's as black as coal once you shut down.

[turbulentmonkey]

I agree with that Dave! The pre-flight is never fun in complete darkness either. It helps to have a well lit area for doing it but that's usually not the case.

I recently had a landing light fail on me mid-flight at night. To top it off my internal bulb decided to blow too. So I was approaching the field with a torch on my instruments and no light shining on the numbers as I got close to the ground. It was a challenge but the aircraft will still fly perfectly well without lights. This sort of stuff isn't something to be scared/worried about, it's just one of they things.

I personally love flying at night and I've had some of my best flying experiences under the cover of darkness. Perhaps it's because the radio is quiet or I don't have to wait/hold anywhere (usually). Or maybe it's the beauty of it all. I'll never forget my first experience of night flight though. It was on the 4th of November with plenty of fireworks to look down on. We also had a large group of Chinese lanterns floating past together. Great stuff :ok:

[Dave Wilson]

I appreciate the quietness of the radio as well plus the air is usually ultra smooth. Mind you I like flying first thing in the morning just as dawn is breaking, that has a quality all to itself as well.

[Desert185]

No longer a TFR and the lights are out at house. Looks like they called it quits looking for the Bo. With the big trees and the recent snow, they'll almost be impossible to find until the spring snow melt.