Any glider pilots here?

[Roooob]

I am looking to take up gliding as a way to pass my time at the weekends.

The two clubs near me are Cambridge Gliding Centre and London Gliding Club (Both a fair drive away, however they are the closest).

However the pictures on their website show lots of old and middle-aged people. There is nothing wrong with that but I am 20 and without trying to sound offensive, it's not really the type of social group I am looking for (It's like going out with your Dads or Granddads friends!)

Does anyone who is part of a gliding club (doesn't have to be the two mentioned above) know if there are any young people around my age that go?

[mary meagher]

Hello Roooob....

Now if I really wanted to entince you into gliding I would describe myself as 19 years old, red haired, already at University, already a solo pilot at Shenington gliding club....but that's not me, I'm just an old fart.....however I'm sure she would be pleased to introduce you to the gliding scene at our club. Or you might be happier to mix with the Oxford uni kids at Bicester (otherwise known as Windrushers).

I would expect Cambridge to send a few youngsters down to Gransden Lodge...that's the Cambridge club.

Gliding is for all sorts, there is a social side, but did you actually want to learn to fly or just socialise? If flying is your dream, it makes a lot of sense to (1) start young and (2) start with gliding. At our club a junior member (under 25 years of age, that is) pays a yearly subscription of £35, and £8 per winch launch. By the time you achieve solo, and learn to use thermals to go cross country, like the young lady forementioned, you would be well on your way....good luck!

[ChampChump]

There are glider pilots here; those more active than I will tell you that some (many?) clubs have various scholarships and support for students and younger members, so you shouldn't have to feel like a shoot amongst old trees, although as you have gathered the pilot population overall isn't youthful, by any stretch of the imagination.

Were it probably not a practical idea, I'd suggest going to France where youngsters are far more in evidence...

But don't let us wrinklies deter you; join the club that makes you welcome and enjoy the flying. I'd make that top priority, rather than the age of the members. New friends come in all sorts of age groups and you also have the chance to set an example to your friends and drag the average age down.

[cockney steve]

SO, Roooooob.........Just because the body's ancient, you make the closed-mind asumption that the brain and personality are, as well.

You're missing a trick!- wise -up matey!:p

[chrisN]

In answer to your first question, there are a few glider pilots “here”, but a lot more on gliderpilot.net.

Secondly, many gliding clubs have young members, though in the nature of things most clubs have more members over 30 than younger. In my club (Essex GC, at Ridgewell), offhand out of about 50 members I can think of at least 6 below 25,. Some solo and some not yet. We also have a junior member cadet scheme with reduced fees for students. (I once calculated that one of our junior pilots who joined when about 10 had several thousand poundsworth of free flying subsidised by the rest of us.) On Saturday and Sunday this weekend, our most advanced junior (aged 16) had 8 aerobatic training flights – paid for by his family, however, not by other club members – we can’t stretch to that sort of subsidy!

It sounds as though we would be a long drive for you, however. If you do choose to visit us, I think you would get a better welcome than is described in another thread.

Chris N

[S-Works]

Telling us where you are based would be a good start. Nearest clubs at Cambridge and London does not ring right for a start!

[Lost in Cloud]

If you are willing to commit and put the effort in then the RAFs Volunteer Gliding Squadrons (VGS) are always looking for staff who have the right attitude.

Volunteer Gliding Squadron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Gliding_Squadron)

You will be expected to help out on the airfield and may find you work more than you fly (helping to launch gliders, retrieving gliders or operating the winch), but you will fly. The social side of it is really good, it is a real team effort. There are lots of younger staff, a constant supply of cadets from the Air Training Corps who complete their training and stay on as flight staff cadets before becoming civilian instructors.

Find a squadron close to you and give the Officer Commanding and phone call, they usually only operate at weekends though.

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi Roooob,

It is very many years since I was a member of London Gliding Club, but there is one thing about that place that will not have changed, namely the topography. It is a complex and difficult site for a newby but an excellent one for an experienced glider pilot.

They have three runways there and therefore three directions of take-off and landing nearly all of them very far from level, not to mention the soaring ridge immediately along one side of the airfield which can complicate landing approaches from that direction.

When I was there you had to have a separate check-out for each landing approach. Your check-out only lasted a couple of months, so if your check-out for a particular approach became expired through not being used, then even though you had flown solo for several weeks on the trot previously on other approaches, you had fly with an instructor on your expired approach before you could fly it solo again. To get this flight with an instructor, you might have to wait all day (because of busy flying lists) and even then you might not get it. This made for slow, frustrating and expensive progress. After one season there I moved to Booker.

I don't know the Cambridge Gliding Centre site, but I cannot imagine it could possibly be as difficult as the LGC one. I would say do your basic training, (say perhaps up to BGA 'C' Certificate) at Cambridge and then decide later whether you wish to move to LGC for the ridge and the challenge when you have some skill and are ready to join a syndicate.

Well that's my two pen'th.

Good luck Roooob; I hope you enjoy gliding.

BP.

[mary meagher]

Air Training Corps or anything subsidised by the RAF as mentioned above by Lost In Cloud is a good start, lots of kids get to march up and down, push gliders, and occasionally fly; the University squadrons are excellent value if you qualify. After learning the basics on one of these programmes, often life paths go different ways, the kid has to get a proper job, raise a family, move round the country, change wives, whatever, and then, at the age of 50 plus, they COME BACK TO GLIDING.....and already know basically how to fly!

Other chaps go on and mortgage their future to buy a commercial rating, this is a very stressful path but you might find yourself in the sharp end of a Boeing or an Airbus .... or meat bombing....

As for going on glider pilot net, not a very useful forum because it is poorly designed and hard to read - and full of immature young persons.....

PPRuNe enjoys the patronage of pilots and those interested in aviation who can actually communicate facts, ideas,....and scornful putdowns

[grow45]

Maybe you could see it as an opportunity rather than a disadvantage.

When I learnt at Portmoak as a student in the early 1980's I became a member of the Tuesday group which consisted of a number of older retired members (including instructors)who got together on a Tuesday to fly rather than at the weekends. I forget how I got involved but it was probably a case of discovering that I had no lectures on a Tuesday and just asking. It seemed a bit odd at first but it quickly became apparent that we all had a common aim and everybody just mucked in. I had a great time, made some good friends and learnt a lot.

There may be a similar group you can get involved with rather than flying at the weekends when it is busier.

Curiously I drifted away from gliding to boating and discovered that my local boat club has a similar Tuesday group - the only difference is that I am one of the old ones now doing what I can to help the younger members. That said I am planning to be one of the ones described by Mary who drifts away and then comes back now that the children have left home, mortgage paid off etc.

Wherever you decide to go don't be put off by first appearances. As I said at the end of the day people are just there to go gliding and enjoy themselves.

[IFMU]

At my old club, we had a lot of juniors 13-18 and some college kids who usually instructed, flew commercial rides, towed, or did all 3. Then there is a huge age gap until you get to the empty nesters. I never found age a barrier in flying. The common love of flight breaks down many barriers.
Home (http://www.harrishillsoaring.org/HHSC/Home.html)
Bryan

[Rocket2]

Roob
Look at the BGA web site - it'll lead you to the location map of all BGA clubs in the UK with contact details etc. Fret not about us old farts as a certain person refers to herself & probably means other keen & willing souls, we are harmless & full of useful information. If on the other hand you find that a little daunting there is a very enthusiastic nationwide band of "Juniors" who regularly hold their own competitions & training sessions at sites around the Uk, again the BGA web site gives you all the information. A lot of clubs offer places to the likes of Air Scouts, nearby University's etc & of course us so called old farts also help subsidise the younger members (who get cheaper launch & flying rates at a lot of clubs).
Go for it & good luck
R2

[Benjybh]

I'm a member of Midland Gliding Club up at the Long Mynd in Shropshire. I'm 21.

Yes, there are a few junior members ('juniors' in the gliding world means under 26) but due to the nature of the sport there are many more of the older generation who have retired or whose kids have left home etc.

You seem to think that this is a bad thing; but they'll have a lot to teach you! It's not like going out for the day with your parents: You are all there to fly, and most of the older lot are really keen to get younger guys involved - if you're not a complete twunt then the age difference is irrelevant; they just become your pilot mates from the gliding club.

However, the junior gliding scene in the UK is actually thriving. The UK Junior National Championships held each year (Lasham in 2014) are huge fun; ten days of moderate-to-heavy drinking, youthful antics and of course, excellent flying.

Throughout the winter, 'UK Junior Gliding' (actually just a load of juniors) hold a few weekends at different gliding clubs where we can all meet up, engage in some more moderate-to-heavy drinking, youthful antics, and excellent flying.

Check out this excellent video put together by the UK Junior Gliding team which sums up last season nicely:

EpFaCs_3JoA

:ok:

[Roooob]

Thanks for all the replys guys! I'm grateful you didn't all take my post the wrong way and post sarcastic replies!

I think i'm gunner go for it now. Nothing to lose really. But a question- if I started now, would I get much flying in over the winter, or is it more of a summer sport?

[Pegpilot]

Evening Roob,

As far as winter gliding is concerned, most clubs do try to fly on every possible day throughout the winter. Lack of thermal activity on flat sites generally means short flights, but good for circuit bashing. For prolonged flights you need to go to a ridge site (Parham, Dunstable, Oop North) or a wave site (Oop north). The other consideration in winter is waterlogged airfields, which can shut some clubs down for weeks at a time.

Anyway, if you're anywhere near Welland GC do drop in

Cheers

Peg

[x933]

Roooooob

You don't mention where you are in the UK; Bicester has a very active junior scene, and a good mix young and middle age pilots. It's well priced, it's an easy site to fly from especially if you are learning.

Now is the best time of year to learn to glide - with a moderate level of commitment you'll be solo by March / April just in time to make the most of the soaring season. So many people start in the summer but don't hit solo until the best of the weather has passed. If you can hack flying in the winter, summer is a breeze.

[chrisN]

Sustained flights in winter, in wave, are also possible in the west (e.g. Nympsfield, Usk, Talgarth, Long Mynd, Lleweni Park) as well as oop North.

Chris N

[Jim59]

Roooob,

I fly at Cambridge Gliding Centre, and it's true that some of us are past our first flush of youth. The airfield does cater for pilots of all ages though - within reason!

We operate a motor glider for Hertfordshire Scouts who even have their own club-room on site. They are frequently around at weekends. Cambridge University Gliding club operates fom our site, sharing our aircraft and instructors. We also run a cadet scheme for a few younger members. We have had several first solo flights of members between 14 and 16 this year.

CUGC have a picture gallery showing a few younger faces on the airfield ...
Gallery (http://www.cugc.org.uk/gallery/)

[blind pew]

Roob
I've flown all civilian types from models thro to heavies bar autogiros...
Gliding is without doubt the most skilful and enjoyable.
I haven't flown one for two years (local French politics) but still paraglide ...the next best aviation sport ...but also incredibly dangerous with instruction ranging from excellent to useless.(and very often pray to the weather).
I witnessed one training accident and had a mate injured recently at a reputed school. Both UK based.
IMHO the gliding instructional standard is incredibly high and is monitored by the BGA.
The winter is the easiest time to learn as long as you chose a club that doesn't suffer from runway closure due to flooding.
A ridge opens you open to faster progression as does a motor glider.
There are several clubs that have a student group co based.
Good luck
From an old fart who feels he is too old to fly upside down in the mountains.
Can you post a photo of your mum or her mum?

[M52]

Hi Roob,

I fly at CGC and to be honest most members are either around retirement or their late teens to twenties. I don't think you would have a problem socially, I'm the odd one out as I fall halfway between, not many of my age but that doesn't really worry me as I am mainly there to fly. They are having a fireworks party on Saturday, that would be a good time to see if you fit in socially. I'm sure non members would be welcome if they knew you were as prospective candidate so to speak, 6 quid a ticket...

[UAV689]

Where you based? Try anglia gliding club near stowmarket, probably one of the best fleets around, cheap and quite a mixed crowd of oldies and young

[mary meagher]

Actually, if I were you, I would NOT visit the Cambridge club, or any other, on a fireworks/bonfire party....reason being they will all know each other but you would be just another stranger there for the party....

Best thing is to turn up EARLY MORNING - before 9 am, on a weekend when good weather is forecast, and HELP GET THE GLIDERS OUT! That way you can really find out what the locals are like. Furthermore, you will make a good impression.

But if you have not handled aircraft before, ask those in charge for advice; ie, don't push on trailing edge of wings, always walk around wings, never step over them, only one person to hold the wingtip to guide the glider, etc etc. It is easy to damage an aircraft when winkling it out of a crowded hangar. Once it is in the open, you come in handy, learning to hold the wingtip, drive retrieve vehicles, and so on. Always keep your eyes open for airfield traffic, don't walk or drive across approach or takeoff paths, beware of winch cables, propellors, etc.

And at the end of the day, buy your instructor a beer.....

[cats_five]

As said before, use the BGA website to look for clubs and think about when you can fly when deciding which one(s) to visit. Don't look at the distance, look at the travel time and if it's likely to be affected on busy holiday weekends. Some clubs have good facilities to stay overnight which can reduce the travelling if you are flying on two (or more) consecutive days.

Don't just turn up, ring, find out when a good time to turn up to have a look round is.

Bicester (Windrushers) is a good club, so is Husbands Bosworth which is just south of Leicester.

[Roooob]

Thanks guys. Just a few more questions-

How do clubs actually work? I know you don't just turn up, fly and go home. So lets say you turned up at your club on Saturday. Do you just stick your name on a list, then sit in the bar until it's your turn to fly (and occasionally help recovering gliders)? Or is there more to it?

Also, how many flights would you get a day? Are we talking one flight, 3 flights, or as many as you want?

And last question, how much does it roughly cost to learn? I assume it's more than normal if you're going to have an instructor with you?

Oh wait, last last question- how long do your flights last (lets say for a general winter flight). Are we talking 5 minutes, 20 minutes, an hour?

Thanks!

[Benjybh]

How do clubs actually work? I know you don't just turn up, fly and go home. So lets say you turned up at your club on Saturday. Do you just stick your name on a list, then sit in the bar until it's your turn to fly (and occasionally help recovering gliders)? Or is there more to it?


Generally speaking, you're expected to be on the airfield when you're not flying. To launch one glider you need a lot of people on the ground: A winch driver, wing-runner, a retrieve winch/cable driver, a couple of people to move you around on the launchpoint.

I think the general consensus - at least at my club - is that you either help get the kit out in the morning and help on the airfield all day and head back a bit earlier, or arrive a bit later and help put the kit away in the evening. If you do both, more the better.

In terms of how the flying works, for instruction and check flights, it will probably be best to call ahead to check availability. My club uses an online rota/timetable and an online booking system which makes life easier.

Once you're solo and want to fly the club single-seaters, then usually the 'Flying List' system operates. Basically, you all put your names down on the list, and fly in that order throughout the day. Once you get to the bottom of the list, start again.

Also, how many flights would you get a day? Are we talking one flight, 3 flights, or as many as you want?


Entirely depends on the weather. In the warmer months you might only get one flight of an hour or two, but in the winter you might get five or six circuits. Obviously the fewer people there are wanting instruction, the more you'll get - another reason why learning to fly in the winter is good.

And last question, how much does it roughly cost to learn? I assume it's more than normal if you're going to have an instructor with you?


Depends upon if you're any good or not. At a guess it would take maybe 50 or so winch launches 'on average'? I soloed off 21 aerotow launches, and then resoloed again after a four-year layoff after 32 winch launches (having never flown a winch before). Other people will have done it in more, or less.

Expenses are generally split into three categories:

Membership
Launches
Flying Fees

You'll need to look at the fees list of whatever club you're going to fly at. Most operate a 'pence per minute' system for flying fees, some offer the first 10 minutes free (for circuit practice) and a few (like mine) charge a yearly flying fee that covers all flying.

A few clubs do a 'fixed price to solo' package which may or may not be useful, have a google.

Oh wait, last last question- how long do your flights last (lets say for a general winter flight). Are we talking 5 minutes, 20 minutes, an hour?


Depends upon where you're flying from. At the flatfield sites you're looking at a five minute circuit, if you go to a ridge site then with the wind in the right direction you can spend all day up there. A friend of mine did his 5hr Silver Duration on the ridge at the Mynd in a K6e a few weeks ago.

Hope that helps.

[mary meagher]

one more thing....DRESS WARMLY! No place is colder than a windy airfield. lots of layers, long johns, warm jacket, scarf. You can always shed layers if you get too hot, but if you don't dress warmly you will suffer!

not in the glider, however, despite no heaters, there is shelter in the cockpit - unless its a T21.....!

[PaulisHome]

Hi Rooob

If you'd like to come and try flying at Cambridge, the good news is that we have bookable training (even for someone just coming to try it out). You can book a half day, or a whole day. As a non-member you pay a daily fee (£25) plus normal flying charges, which you can find on our website (Cambridge Gliding Centre (http://www.glide.co.uk)). We have two students per glider and instructor. Be there in time to get the gliders out (9am) if flying in the morning, and to put the gliders away if flying in the afternoon.

To book (members can book online), phone the office (weekdays 9.30-3) on 01767 677077. We're open at weekends, and Monday, Wednesday, Friday during the winter.

Let me know if you plan to come, and I'll come out and have a chat.

Paul

[Roooob]

Paulishome- Thanks, sounds good. What time are the gliders packed away?

[Heady1977]

What time are the gliders packed away?The rule of thumb for training aircraft at any gliding club the world over is:


When the probability of flyable weather == 0.
Last ray of sunlight and not a moment sooner.

Additional rule of thumb for private aircraft:


When the bar opens.

[glider12000]

Whilst this topic is in place, what are the rules for Civilians wanting to join the VGS?

I'm pre-silver but with saving for an upcoming wedding and buying a house I am unable to afford to fly. I'd love to instruct so this would be a great way for me to give back.

Both parents have served in the Navy and I currently have a brother in the army should this help?

Thanks in advance

[Heady1977]

how much does it roughly cost to learn? I assume it's more than normal if you're going to have an instructor with you? First thing - gliding in the UK is volunteer led and run. Some lucky big clubs have paid staff - but most do not. The club is what you yourself put into it.

Unlike power flying - for most gliding clubs the instructors volunteer their time to help you learn the skills of flying. (There are paid courses but even then; for most cases the money goes to the club not the instructor). Clubs are all very different - some cover your years flying by the annual club fees with you only paying for the launch. Others charge you for the launch and a per minute hire rate. Some clubs heavily subsidize youth flying which you at 20yrs would be able to take advantage of.

How much does it cost? Depends where you draw your yard-stick; your age and ability with usually younger being better and at what skills level you wish to acheive.

I started gliding in Sept 2011 at 33yrs and from ab-initio to solo took two weeks (8 days with ~63 flights) and a total of £1200 + food/drink & fuel. I did two 5 day courses back-to-back at a major south-west English club.

Most clubs have a skills progression system that is based off BGA, FAI, and soon to be EASA rules. My club has "pre-solo white card", "post-solo white card", "red card", "yellow card", "blue card" which dictate the skills milestones. The BGA, FAI milestones are ab-initio, solo, bronze, bronze cross-country, silver etc...

For me to get from solo through the various cards to bronze cross-country took me approx. 22 months and something like ~£200/month give or take (not including the expeditions to Spain and Australia). However, to chase the elusive silver duration - I've probably spent over £800 in about 5 attempts... I blame the weather - but it could just be me :-(

Given that at your age your still classified as youth at most clubs - you'd probably spend about half that.

how many flights would you get a day? Are we talking one flight, 3 flights, or as many as you want?Depends on you and the club... Some clubs have a strict 3 flights at a time to share resources and give the instructors a break. Other clubs allow you and the instructor to do what is safe. Some days I've only accomplished 1 flight - typically 3 - the highest within a day was I think 13.

if I started now, would I get much flying in over the winter, or is it more of a summer sportGliding is mainly a summer sport - but if you can deal with being on a freezing cold & windy airfield - best to learn in the winter and solo in the winter so you can start doing serious solo flights at the beginning of the summer season and work your way through the skills milestones as the soaring season improves. That's what I tried to achieve - and was reasonably successful in accomplishing that.

how long do your flights last (lets say for a general winter flight). Are we talking 5 minutes, 20 minutes, an hourWhen learning - in the UK in winter at a flat-land site - expect training flights to last for 5-8mins. In Australia the training flights at the club my bother-in-law is learning at are an hour summer or winter...

two clubs near me ... (Both a fair drive away,Most gliding clubs have on-site accommodation - some more plush/expensive than others. For the last few seasons at my club there has been a young female pilot that lives on the coast four+ hours away - she travels by public bus to the airfield - stays the two or three nights in the on-site accommodation - flys during the day - and then travels back home via public bus. I take my hat off to her for her dedication. There is nothing stopping you from doing the same - depends on your motivation.

What about Lasham ... They are the biggest in Europe, there should be someone of the right age etc there!Any of the bigger clubs close to large population centers (and especially close to Universities) should have an active youth scene. Lasham has a youth corp - about 30 young people at full strength from 13 to 24yrs with 60:40 mix of genders. When the iGC and/or Southampton University group(s) are at full strength you can add another 12 young people. Over winter the youth corp are active Saturdays and so too are the University group(s).

[Piper.Classique]

What time are the gliders packed away?
The rule of thumb for training aircraft at any gliding club the world over is:
When the probability of flyable weather == 0.
Last ray of sunlight and not a moment sooner

Er. No at least not in France. More like, we start after an early lunch, and stop when the thermals do.

[PaulisHome]

Paulishome- Thanks, sounds good. What time are the gliders packed away?

At Cambridge, in the winter, around the time it gets dark, unless we stop flying earlier.

In the summer, quite often there's an evening session, and then the evening group pack them away. Otherwise around 6pm.

Paul

[astir 8]

No-one along the way seems to have discussed winch launching versus aerotowing.

Some sites do only winch launching, some only do aerotows and some do both.

Winch launches generally cost in the region of £7.50. Aerotows are in the range £25 - 35 (all depending on the club used).

Depending on the site (length of run) and weather conditions (wind direction and strength) winch launches average 1000 - 1800 feet. Aerotows are generally to 2000' with the option of going higher for a bit more money.

The OP asked the question about how long flights last. The comments about c. 8 minute flights in winter clearly refer to winch launches to 1500 - 1800 feet. 1000 feet launches = about 4 minutes! 2000 foot aerotows in still air (winter, no thermals and no ridge available) would give flights in the range 12 - 20 minutes including the tow time and depending on the exercises done in-flight.

As to the best system, initially more time in the air gives better grasp of basic flying manoeuvres but the launch and landing are the trickier bits which come later and need practice. With aerotows you tend to do fewer launches and landings (cost!).

So a club which has both launch systems might be the ideal. Before joining a club a few pertinent questions about launch systems and flight times would be advisable.

Generally 7 day week clubs = paid staff = more expense but better availability of flying. Weekend-only clubs = unpaid personnel = lower costs but a higher frustration ratio

You pays your money and takes your choice

[discobolus]

I suspect the original enquiry has been answered. This is a more general response to where to glide. The key factors are:
Professional staff, so you aren't driving winches or mowing the grass
Large airfield, which is much safer
Winch and aerotow launches
Well-drained airfield, ie always open
364 days a year operation
Large heavily-subsidised youth contingent
Restaurant & bar
Large fleet of well-equipped and maintained two-seaters and single-seaters, plus a big team of instructors so you don't hang around waiting
Reliable equipment such as new winches
Bookable training

Judge the various gliding sites using these criteria, but include Lasham in Hampshire in your search. It has 132 members under the age of 26.

[cockney steve]

Just a slight aside.....nobody has said a word about SLMG

(Self-Launching Motor Gliders) If i've got it right?....seems to be an ideal compromise in that you "carry your own tow" so to speak.- a "get out of jail " card, if you can't find lift or are unsure about a "forced" landing. apart from the weight-penalty, I see only advantages,

Curious how the costs compare, what are the licensing requirements? are they so bound-up in red-tape that they're sidelined?

[Heady1977]

Does anyone who is part of a gliding club (doesn't have to be the two mentioned above) know if there are any young people around my age that go? Just noticed the "UK Juniors" have uploaded their yearly season video.

Does this answer your question?

UK Junior Gliding TV - The 2013 Season Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ1jnQtCMiM&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL5E3037701780D32A