Bristol Beaufighter sad news. [Archive]

vortexadminman

1st Nov 2013, 23:21

Sadly I hear that the last gasp of a Bristol Beaufighter has come to an end. A few chaps at RAF Duxford have been working for over 15 years to get one up again. After all their efforts, money, time etc etc has run out. Isn't there a person out there with a shed load of money they won't spend in their lifetime to fund one. Sadly not me!!!

NutLoose

2nd Nov 2013, 00:01

It's been on the market for ages, the main problem as I understand it from things people have said, it is a lack of suitable engines, there are Hercules and there are Hercules engines, unfortunately those that survive are the wrong type, rotation and I think would move the prop forward or aft.. Hence a no go.

Don't quote me on it, but that's what I heard.

Wander00

2nd Nov 2013, 07:48

Hope the airframe is saved though. Great shame it will not (apparently) be seen flying. Maybe get Peter Jackson interested..................

Evalu8ter

2nd Nov 2013, 08:11

Vortex,
It's the TFC Beau at IWM Duxford. The team have tried for years to get the correct mark of engine for the aircraft; their efforts were impacted a few years back when changes to Flight Crew Licensing meant the Company's principal was no longer permitted to fly/display twins - hence the Mosquito project was disposed of and the Beau was slowed down and put up for sale. With the retirement from display flying of the principal it is inevitable that the collection will be further rationalised - the P47 has already gone.

It's not all bad news; the Moorabin Beau has turned its props over recently, the ARCO Blenheim nears (another..) first flight and there's a Beaufort on short finals to fly 'down under'.

The issue, as I understand it, is getting a Design Authority to approve a change in mark of Hercules engine (and the costs of the one-off mods...) or a change to US engines. Without approval, and with the correct mark of Hercules very scarce, it's going to take a lot of money to get her airborne again. Ultimately, she doesn't have the appeal to most of a Mosquito.

AtomKraft

2nd Nov 2013, 16:36

She does to me.

I'd love to see and hear a Beaufighter flying.

A Mosquito is a wonderful thing, but a Beaufighter? One notch up.:ok:

brickhistory

2nd Nov 2013, 17:17

Second that...

Corporal Clott

2nd Nov 2013, 19:04

NutLoose

2nd Nov 2013, 19:09

Mind you not all Beau's had Hercs in them, some had Merlin's, though I bet you would have problems swapping them in the UK, more chance stateside though.

rlsbutler

2nd Nov 2013, 22:29

There were Lancasters with Hercules engines, but they just do not fit the legend.

There were Beaus with Merlins and Beaus with gun turrets, but they are not worth reconstructing for the same reason. Wikipedia tells us that the Beaus were "Whispering Death" only if they had Hercules engines.

EyesFront

3rd Nov 2013, 11:40

I happen to be reading "The Long Road to the Sky - Night Fighter Over Germany" by Graham White, and he makes it clear that the Beaufighter II with the Merlin engines was a nasty aeroplane which was underpowered, and took off in ever-decreasing circles. The accident record was so bad they took it out of front-line units and - against all logic - sent them to training stations! Apparently 337 were built and 102 crashed - 2 due to enemy action and one shot down by the Americans...

Without Big Bristols, it just wouldn't be a Beau...

AtomKraft

3rd Nov 2013, 22:32

There's a pair of engines (unrestored) on display at East Fortune.

The Beaufighter wreckage displayed with them is never going to fly, so surely this pair could be rebuilt for the Duxford a/c- assuming the parts are still available?

Mind you, if it was that easy.....:uhoh:

Brian Abraham

4th Nov 2013, 00:41

the Beaufighter II with the Merlin engines was a nasty aeroplane which was underpoweredThe pilot notes would give the impression that ALL Beaus were nasty aeroplanes. So unstable were they that the notes recommend that cloud or night flying not be indulged in, and that also applied to those fitted with the dihedral tailplane, which was meant to increase stability. Yet they was used as a night fighters. Oddly, crews of the night fighter preferred the more unstable flat tailplane.

All the Merlin production (450, not including 2 prototypes) were built as night fighters, and served first with 600, 406 and 205 Squadrons. The Merlin was introduced in fear of the Hercules production being too stretched for the bombers. While the Merlin only gave 1,250 HP v Hercules 1,400 HP Mk.IF, on take off, the Merlin gave more at altitude. The Hercules finally ended with a rating of 1,735 HP.

The unbuilt Mk. IV with a proposed slim fuselage and Griffon engines would have been something to see.

TBM-Legend

4th Nov 2013, 04:49

An Australian Beaufighter was fitted with Wright R-2600's [1700hp] out of a B-25 Mitchell. Test were good but the supply of Hercs put paid to that project. RAAF 456 Sqn flew Merlin Mk 11F's in UK as night fighters too...

Shackman

4th Nov 2013, 09:00

Give it to Avspecs/re-register it in NZ. Their CAA seems much more pro aviation than our rule driven one - witness KA114 (rebuilt Mosquito) that apparently cannot be put on the UK register because there is no design authority for it either; however it seems to be complete (if not better) in all respects.

dead_pan

4th Nov 2013, 09:23

Maybe get Peter Jackson interested..................

Or John Caudwell?

oxenos

4th Nov 2013, 11:09

"All the Merlin production (450, not including 2 prototypes) were built as night fighters, and served first with 600, 406 and 205 Squadrons."

Definitely not 205. Typo for 255?

BillHicksRules

4th Nov 2013, 12:43

AtomKraft/BH,

I agree that the Whispering Death is a more beautiful warplane than the Mossie.

surely not

4th Nov 2013, 14:56

My father was on 25 Squadron during the early years in WW2 and worked on Hercules engined Beaus for sure but I seem to remember him saying that they had some Merlin engined aircraft that were so bad they were removed from the squadron very promptly.

He is 94 now but I took him to Duxford back in 2003 and he got chatting with the chap working on the Beau and was allowed to climb the ladder and see inside the cockpit. It was amazing the way his memory kicked in and started reeling off what all the various bits and bobs were for. The smile on his face as he relived his days looking after the Beaufighters was wonderful to see and I really don't have the heart to tell him that he is unlikely to see a Beaufighter flying again in the UK.

AtomKraft

4th Nov 2013, 16:32

BHR

Not sure if the Beau' is more beautiful, but it certainly has 'that certain something'...

A sort of pugnacious, brutish strength that's not really so evident in the Mossie.

Many years ago, at Strathallan, the old museum there had a loop showing the antics of the Banff Strike Wing.

They probably dubbed the sound on- and it was Mosquitos as well as Beaufighters- but no-one could fail to be impressed.

You can find odds and sods on youtube, but the quality is poor. Maybe Pathe news have it.

Wonderful footage.

I had a look at the Duxford Beau last month, and the work they've done looks really good. Very airworthy. :ok:

Evalu8ter

4th Nov 2013, 16:49

Atom,
It looks very airworthy as the restoration has been done to airworthy specs; doesn't help when there's no available engines restorable within a budget. Much like the prospects of Kermit's Tempest V ever flying with a Napier Sabre up front.....

I would like nothing more than to see a Beau whisper past in 27 Sqn markings - but it's not as fixed in the wider public's consciousness as the Mosquito (probably thanks to those awful 1960s films and the Amiens raid....) and there are simply not the same number of 'donor' airframes around - therefore not enough demand for a 'cottage industry' to spring up and support the project.

Vortex,
I've not seen any recent pronouncement from TFC re the Beau - have they formally stopped work and decided to finish as a static only?

NutLoose

4th Nov 2013, 18:19

If you want a Tempest 11, one nearly airworthy is up for sale, see

http://www.hawkertempest.se/MW763.htm

Rakshasa

4th Nov 2013, 19:16

Dinty/G-DINT, (the ex-Halton training bed) went to Oz for restoration about 12 months ago. Stephen Grey's project with TFC is on long term hold and the East Fortune static is still a jigsaw puzzle and likely will be for a few more decades.

All in all, the chances of a flying Beau lie with the three projects now in Oz/NZ.

AtomKraft

4th Nov 2013, 19:49

Best I could find.

Beaufighters attacking sea targets - - YouTube

Or maybe this?

COASTAL COMMAND STRIKES AT GERMAN CONVOY - British Pathé (http://www.britishpathe.com/video/coastal-command-strikes-at-german-convoy/query/Beaufighter)

Brian Abraham

4th Nov 2013, 20:32

Definitely not 205. Typo for 255?Quite correct oxenos. My bad.

AtomKraft

4th Nov 2013, 21:39

Cracked it this time, although mainly Mossies.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_Q280Gpz4

Brian Abraham

5th Nov 2013, 02:40

If you have an hour and a half to waste

Beaufighter - Whispering Death, The Forgotten Warhorse - YouTube

STANDTO

6th Nov 2013, 21:03

My next door neighbour's husband flew Beaufighters on 255. Sqn Leader Johnny Wright. I never met him - he had died before I moved, but enjoyed looking at many great photographs of his wartime squadrons. His widow, Mabel, better known as Teddy, is a remarkable person but beyond her best years now. I often wish I had had the patience to record her memories in some shape or form.

Nige321

11th Jun 2019, 14:06

Resurrecting an old thread.
TFC's Beaufighter has been stalled for years due to lack of engines.

There's news...
Beaufighter engines (http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2019/06/10/beaufighter-engine-restoration-news/)
=justifyWarbirds Online follows on from our previous news on the rebuild of Bristol Hercules engines by Peter Brooke at Historical Aircraft Engines in Brisbane Queensland for the Bristol Beaufighter project of the Historical Aircraft Restoration Society (HARS) and Robert Grienert’s Historical Aircraft Restorations Limited. The major decision has now been made as to the version of Hercules to be rebuilt, being the series XVII Bristol Hercules from later series Beaufighters.=justifySince our last visit to Historical Aircraft Engines there has been considerable progress and an audit and examination of the 16 tons of spare parts acquired last year from New Zealand has confirmed the viability of the rebuilding of the initial early series XVII Bristol Hercules required for the HARS project as well as two engines for a European project. There is also future capacity for the rebuild of other engines as well as care and maintenance support for the 4 being rebuilt now.

Davef68

11th Jun 2019, 14:43

Resurrecting an old thread.
TFC's Beaufighter has been stalled for years due to lack of engines.

There's news...
Beaufighter engines (http://www.warbirdsonline.com.au/2019/06/10/beaufighter-engine-restoration-news/)

Interesting - I'd been lead to understand that one reason for a lack of interest from TFC was that the owner wasn't able to hold an EASA/CAA multi-engined piston rating due to his age?

chevvron

11th Jun 2019, 18:19

Is one of the Beaufighter's mentioned above the ex-RAF Halton engine running demonstrator? Last known as G-DINT prior to shipment down-under?

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2489/5839768225_3f13f7d765.jpg

Here she is with original engines and props...

Link only due to size http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221015&d=1379608166 (http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=221015&d=1379608166)
There was another metal fence (forming the airfield boundary) of similar construction to the one seen just behind the photographer, who is standing only a few yards from where I crash landed Sedburgh VX275 on 17 May 1967 in the field outside the airfield boundary.
I'm fairly sure the Beaufighter had gone by then as we pulled the metal rail fence out of the ground to create a gap to tow the glider back onto the airfield and if the Beau had still been there, we wouldn't have had room for this.

GeeRam

11th Jun 2019, 22:24

Interesting - I'd been lead to understand that one reason for a lack of interest from TFC was that the owner wasn't able to hold an EASA/CAA multi-engined piston rating due to his age?

While this is true, and was why TFC sold the B-25, the F7 Tigercat and the Mosquito, its not really the reason for the lack of progress on the TFC, its the engine issue. TFC have tried (and came close to) selling the Beau as a project, and if the engine issue can be resolved, its likely that they will complete the Beau and then sell it as a flying aircraft, which will likely be easier than as a non-flying project.

treadigraph

11th Jun 2019, 22:35

NutLoose

11th Jun 2019, 23:29

Errrr. you seen this?

https://forum.keypublishing.com/forum/historic-aviation/3864901-2-beaufighters-now-closer-to-being-airborne

GeeRam

12th Jun 2019, 07:53

Errrr. you seen this?

https://forum.keypublishing.com/forum/historic-aviation/3864901-2-beaufighters-now-closer-to-being-airborne

Yes.

But, no response to any of that from PR and he's always been quite open about the Beau at TFC on the FP forum?

Martin the Martian

12th Jun 2019, 12:49

I'd agree with GeeRam, getting it flying will provide a very marketable airframe, one we deserve to enjoy flying in the UK for a while, which could ultimately be sold to finance other projects as has always been the case with TFC. If the right money is offered... Ideally it will remain in the UK... but the bartering over the last 40 years has seen an incredible range of fighters over Duxford, many of which I never thought I'd see here.

'Over Duxford' is the appropriate term. It's been a few years since I've been there, and while strolling around the hangars during the D-Day event I realised just how few of the based aircraft I'd actually seen elsewhere. TFC might receive more support for their projects if their airworthy warbirds actually went a little further than the local circuit. Yes, I know it's down to airshow organisers to book them, but either they are very reluctant to (high costs?) or TFC are reluctant to take them around the country.

GeeRam

12th Jun 2019, 13:15

'Over Duxford' is the appropriate term. It's been a few years since I've been there, and while strolling around the hangars during the D-Day event I realised just how few of the based aircraft I'd actually seen elsewhere. TFC might receive more support for their projects if their airworthy warbirds actually went a little further than the local circuit. Yes, I know it's down to airshow organisers to book them, but either they are very reluctant to (high costs?) or TFC are reluctant to take them around the country.

TFC have their Friends of TFC group, so those that wish to support them have done so for 30 odd years or so. As you say, its down to what bookings they get from elsewhere (they probably get more bookings from European events than UK ones) and you also have to take into account how TFC have changed over the past 3 decades, as SG is not a young man now, and while son Nick flys all the fleet a lot, I'm not sure what will happen to TFC as an organisation when SG is no longer around to pay for it all? The fleet has been reduced quite a bit over the years, and there's certainly less 'projects' on the go compared to when SG was a younger man.

treadigraph

13th Jun 2019, 05:31

I've only done Duxford since 2016, but I've seen regularly TFC aircraft at other airfields over the years. Most recently I've seen the Bearcat, Hellcat, Gladiator and Corsair at Shoreham in 2014 and they may have been there in 2015. Current projects apart from the Beau include the Fiat CR.42 and three Sea Furies; they also have an occasional habit of unveiling surprise restorations from California, so who knows...?

GeeRam

13th Jun 2019, 07:58

Current projects apart from the Beau include the Fiat CR.42 and three Sea Furies; they also have an occasional habit of unveiling surprise restorations from California, so who knows...?

Only the 1 Sea Fury owned by TFC, not 3!
FB.11 VX653 has been been on very long term restoration since being acquired by TFC almost 30 years ago.
The only other project they have, again a very long term one, is Spitfire Mk22 PK624,which again has been with TFC for almost 25 years.
There's nothing currently in restoration in any shops in USA or elsewhere.

treadigraph

13th Jun 2019, 08:52

According to G-INFO, G-VZSF/VZ345 and G-SEAF/WG599 are also currently registered to Patina, TFC's holding company. Mind you, I've also seen WG599 listed with Kermit Weekes! I appreciate they may have been acquired as investments rather than with any intent for them to join the fleet at Duxford.

Nomad2

13th Jun 2019, 21:17

Great news about the engines, and must make the prospect of the next Beau' flight much more likely.

Above The Clouds

14th Jun 2019, 16:49

India Four Two

14th Jun 2019, 22:17

If an engineless Beaufighter was in the States, they would just stick a couple of Twin Wasps on it and go flying. Why can’t this be done in the UK?

treadigraph

14th Jun 2019, 22:48

megan

15th Jun 2019, 02:43

they would just stick a couple of Twin Wasps on it and go flying An Australian Beau of Bristol manufacture (A19-2) was fitted with Wright Cyclone GR-2600-A5B engines as a precaution against the non availability of the Hercules. Was a one off as the Hercules supply from the UK was not interrupted. Performance was slightly less than a Hercules XVII powered aircraft.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x348/beaufighter_a19_2_rear_view_15a83033438e63042607160d80576382 957f2a0a.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x375/a19_2_edccf12e928d4b1bb0188ee7f9147565d4b08551.jpg

Nige321

15th Jun 2019, 09:04

Purity and possibly the CAA demands the correct engines are fitted: how difficult it was to get Sea Fury WG655 flying on the G-reg with an R2800 and a Guardian prop I know not. The aircraft is now with another UK outfit.

Relatively easy - there's an STC frame produced by Sanders for fitting the R2800, it's a quick change mount so the Centaurus can be swapped in very quickly. There's a plan to putthe Centaurus back into WG655 in the future.
I hope so, as it 'aint really a Sea Fury with a US lump in the front...:hmm:

treadigraph

15th Jun 2019, 09:55

Ah that's good to hear though the 2800 and the Guardian prop combination do sound good at speed! I hadn't realised Sea Furies had 2800s, thought the re-engined ones all had R3350s and a couple with R4360s but it seems the 2800 is the dominant powerplant now. Edit: just seen a list, most do have 3350s.

I believe a Buchon in Gemany has a quick change Merlin/DB605?

Anyhow, hope the Beaufighter can now be completed fairly quickly and we'll see it flying in the UK.

chevvron

15th Jun 2019, 15:02

I seem to remember reading years ago (Flying Review International c. mid '60s?) about a small number of Beaus in Portugal still existing; I wonder what happened to them.

treadigraph

15th Jun 2019, 15:18

Two recovered from Portugal, one at RAF Museum and one via South Africa at East Fortune with Museum of Flight.

Nige321

14th Aug 2019, 17:12

From the Flypast forum.
Looks like the dust is being blown off and work is underway again...!

Beaufighter to Fly!14th August 2019, 10:54Maybe visitors to TFC hangar will have noted a little activity around the Beaufighter? We are in the midst of solving the engine installation issues, can you help?

We are looking for the following component Air Publications to help with their overhaul.
Magneto's, Simms F.S.T.14S Mk. iii & v, Rotax N.S.T. 14/1 & N.14A, BTH C.2. SE14-S/1 and C.14.A. (AP1374)
Carb. Hobson A.I.T. 132.MF (AP2657)
Whilst we have the Parts Manual for the Hercules III, X and XI would welcome Parts Manuals for the later engines as they also cover the A.I.T. 132 carb.