Part 61 - Special Pilot Licence

[HighFlyer75]

Hi All,

Apologies if this has already been asked and answered but I have tried searching PPRuNe and Google and haven't managed to find an answer.

Does anybody know what impact Part 61 will have for existing Special Pilot Licence holders? All I can find on the CASA site is a reference to new issues;

Special Pilot Licence to be withdrawn and PPL able to be issued to overseas PPL holder without a flight test (but with an airlaw exam and a flight review)

At the moment I have an active Spec Licence with a current flight review but I have not done the airlaw exam because there was no requirement to do so. Does this mean that my Spec Licence will become invalid on 4 December?

I realise that these questions should be directed at CASA but I haven't had much luck getting a straight answer out of them in the past so thought I would see if the clever people here have any information.

Cheers,
HighFlyer

[601]

I would ask the question of CASA, otherwise doing this;



I realise that these questions should be directed at CASA but I haven't had much luck getting a straight answer out of them in the past so thought I would see if the clever people here have any information first.

will confuse everyone.

[HighFlyer75]

I have sent the same question to CASA a few weeks ago but no answer so far. That's why I thought I would try here as I am sure I am not the only person with a Special pilots Licence and maybe someone else has already asked and knows the answer. It is also clear from other threads on PPRuNe that there are people on here who have a good understanding of what impact the new regs will have so can't hurt to ask.

If I get a response from CASA I will post it here. In the meantime, if anyone already knows the answer, I would appreciate it.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Ring CASA and ask for Mike Juelg (pronounced "Yoolg") or someone else on the Part 61 implementation team.

There is no better source, he has helped us with some transitional issues this week too.

BTW, the air law exam is not a big issue if you have access to a copy of the Day VFR Guide.

Cheers :ok:

[Clare Prop]

I'm trying to find out if this means an overseas PPL holder can come over, do the air law, a flight review and then hop in a plane and have a lovely flying holiday without any interference whatsoever from Canberra. So far the CASA answers have been "we don't know" and "we will get back to you on that" and even "if you find out can you tell me?"

Would be good if true, the C of V s started taking months instead of hours after they set up CLARC and closed down flying tourism in this country.

[601]

I have sent the same question to CASA a few weeks ago but no answer so far

I believe I have a few outstanding, the longest would be over 6 years and still no answer.

[HighFlyer75]

I just spoke to CASA and got and got an interesting response to this. I was told that the information that is currently on the CASA site is incorrect and that from 4 December the replacement for the special licence is;

- Submit form
- Get PPL
- Do flight review
- Use PPL

Apparently there will not be a need to do any exams and the reference to the air law exam on the site is incorrect and will be removed.

So, given that I have a current flight review, I was told I have to wait until 4 December, download and submit the new form and then wait for my PPL to arrive. The special licence I currently have will become invalid on 4 December and I will not be able to apply for the PPL under the new regs until 4 December so I will have a period where I am not able to fly. Hopefully the turnaround time is not too long on the issue of the new licence.

[PhilKenSebben]

I just spoke to CASA and got and got an interesting response to this. I was told that the information that is currently on the CASA site is incorrect and that from 4 December the replacement for the special licence is;

If this is true that is fantastic news. I have an overseas CPL sitting in my pocket that I can't fly on at the moment, if I can convert it over to a PPL without any exams then that would be fantastic.

Does anybody know though, if I convert to a PPL now can I still convert my CPL over later? Or do I have to sit all of the Aus CPL exams from scratch?

[Dick Smith]

Should be like renting a car in the USA or anywhere if we want to bring in export dollars from overseas tourist pilots

That is show your licence and go flying!

Big dollars in this for Australia.

[HighFlyer75]

Completely agree Dick. In the UK they currently allow people with FAA or Australian licences to fly G-reg planes in UK airspace without any kind of conversion (although that might change soon I hear). The only limitation is that you can't go international. Doing something similar here would be great because a restriction on international travel in a country the size of Australia would not really be an issue for foreign pilots wishing to come here for a flying holiday.

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

From the MOS, albeit not updated since 2010.


• Special Pilot Licence (SPECPLA/H/G)
This is a longer-term authorisation permitting the holder to engage in private day VFR operations. The SPECPL is valid only as long as the overseas pilot’s licence is valid. If the overseas medical certificate expires, the holder may apply for an Australian medical certificate. May be used to gain additional aircraft endorsements but not for flying training. Instrument ratings (other than PIFR ratings) and Night VFR ratings cannot be put on or used on a special pilot licence.
➜Note: CASA plans to phase out the SPECPL. Therefore, overseas pilots seeking an authorisation for three months or more should be encouraged to apply for an Australian flight crew licence.
Transitional arrangements may require the SPECPL holders to pass an exam and flight test for the issue of a PPL.

[apache]

Ok.... So my question is, what about an Aussie cpl/ATPL holder who left Australian many moons ago,for whatever reason...... Do they need todo an Aussie medical etc!? They already have a perpetually valid ATPL/cpl based on an aus medical. Can they now fly privately in oz based on overseas quals? Ie...haven't done an aus medical for a few years, but still current and qualified and have a current, although overseas, medical.

Agreed, many of them have NOT flown a small a/c for many a year, and I would doubt that they want to fly one IFR.... Can they now do so VFR?

[Arm out the window]

And of course the ASIC will rear its ugly head, I'd imagine ... licensing might get easier but I can't see the 'security' side of things being so easily dealt with (in an administrative rather than actual sense, naturally!)

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

And the Good News of the day is......

An AMROBA Newsletter, dated 17 Nov, @0639, says that amendments to parts 61, 141, & 142 have been delayed by Minister Truss, until Sept 2014......

Cheers:ok:

[roundsounds]

How can the delay of Part 61 be good news? The advantages of privileges to flight instructors will lead to cost savings to people who fly for recreation. Eg - Flight reviews, aeros and formation endorsements will not require AOC coverage, GFPT replaced by an RPL (like the old restricted licence, with a limit of MTOW less than 1500kg) and the greatest potential to resuscitate GA the ability to convert an RAAus pilot certificate to a GA RPL with a flight review. More good news than bad in Part 61 if you get into the detail.

[5-in-50]

With the mass confusion around detail and endless unanswerable questions on the upcoming changes, will CASA delay some or all of the Dec-04 changes to better prepare?

Discuss or post rumours.

[Jabawocky]

I am not 100% sure, but I think the fact will be not a snowflakes chance in hell on a hot summers day.

Is that a good enough prediction?

[601]

How can the delay of Part 61 be good news?

Maybe getting it correct the first time would be one place to start.

[roundsounds]

I'm in the process of applying for a certificate under Part 141 and cannot see any problems with Parts 61 or 141! That's if you read the actual regs rather than listen to the rumours!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Hi :5,

See previous post re 'Part 61' ......is that wot U were after..?

:ok:

[barleyhi]

Delayed till September 2014

[thunderbird five]

HOT OFF THE PRESS:

Reports to hand confirm the fact that no more facts can, or will, be confirmed at this time. However, at a date soon to be announced, more unconfirmed reports will be denied, which should put an end to all the rumours circulating at the moment.






:E

[harrowing]

thunderbird five
Some clarity at last.

[Horatio Leafblower]

With breathless excitement I rang several contacts in CAsA only to find that Thunderbird Five has the scoop. :ugh:

[morno]

What a complete, utter disgustingly waste of both time and money CASA has spent on all of this. Only to can it literally 3 weeks before it's due to start.

Surely there's got to be some heads on the chopping board over this?

Pissed off.

morno

[PhilKenSebben]

Not that they probably knew any more but I called CLARC today about getting a re-print done and in passing they mentioned that all the regulation changes are going ahead. So who knows what is happening.

[Clare Prop]

Great, all systems were pretty much in place, new students expected to go solo after Dec 4th told no need to apply and pay for student licences and ASICs so I suppose all that will change and all that time I had to close my office for two days to listen to stuff about doing flight tests for licences and ratings in aircraft I don't even have was a massive waste of time. Perhaps I should send whoever has made this decision an invoice for 2 days of billable time at a PDP. :mad::mad::mad:

I was pretty happy with it all, it is a system I have worked with overseas and makes a lot of sense, the backup from local CASA guy was good. I was forwarded letters from other operators which I couldn't agree with about how the sky was going to fall down and I must write to this and that person and be a dinosaur too. Thanks guys for stuffing it up for people who were just quietly getting on with it and now have to undo all that work. Also another year before we can start marketing flying holidays for overseas pilots again. :mad::mad::mad:

[roundsounds]

Clare Prop - couldn't agree more! Am assembling a business - now need to decide whether to go AOC and convert to 141 or wait it out!!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Next time I'll put the "Good News" in inverted commas......
Sorry guys and gals.....

At the time of posting, it was fairly well 'hot off the press'.....
:ugh:

[Horatio Leafblower]

I have received nothing official confirming this - does anyone have it from CASA?

There is nothing on the CASA website or the Minister's website. :confused:

None of my CASA contacts have been able to confirm either :ugh:

[Jabawocky]

So my guess of I am not 100% sure, but I think the fact will be not a snowflakes chance in hell on a hot summers day.

Is that a good enough prediction?

.....has proven correct?

Sorry Griffo...I did not see your post above the one I was replying to.

I wonder what will happen next. :rolleyes:

If anyone can get a tip through to Warren Truss can someone tell hime Jaba reckons sub the lot out to the Kiwi's.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

A M E N ! ! ! To that, Mr J.....

:cool:

[Clare Prop]

I had an email from CASA today saying it was all set to go, a minute later I got one forwarded from a Bankstown operator rejoicing that it had been "deferred" to September 2014. WTF? No references to any official word from CASA though.

The implemetation time is so long already, there WAS industry consultation, we were just waiting for the MOS to finalise the exposition.

If this is the case I hope they will let those of us who got ready and took all that time off to go to PDPs etc instead of playing "ain't it awful" the chance to implement what we have done, or reimburse us for our time spent on this, yeah right. :mad:

[BPA]

Nothing from CASA as the government might have done the old CASA trick and issued them with the big no by FAX at 5pm.

[Horatio Leafblower]

CONFIRMED

My source within CASA has got back to me and it is confirmed, although it ain't official until the Minister announces it on Thursday.

...lots of red tape to jump backwards through hoops aparrently. At last, now the regulator knows how the industry feels.

Clare Prop I can't agree that the whole thing was good to go. Although my school has now wasted hundreds of hours reviewing legislation, if the CASA FOIs can't tell me how it will work, and if FTEs are almost in tears after PDPs saying "I just can't see how it will work, we need another 12 months", mate it just isn't good to go.

9 months might give your competitors time to catch up, yes, but that's a level playing field... ennit? :O

[roundsounds]

For any doubters, you can ring Warren Truss' Canberra office for confirmation the regs will be postponed - as I did.

I predict we will hear the same doomsday rubbish we're hearing today when the regs do go live. The industry thrives on rumours and word of mouth rather than reading the actual regs.

Clare has obviously worked through the new regs, understands them and the positives they will bring to the industry.

I am yet to read / hear of any negatives in part 61,141,142. If you think these are bad, then charter operators need to read part 119!

[seneca208]

What does this mean for ATPLs I wonder?

[air-bender]

I'm 2 exams complete for my FAA ATPL conversion... (Still have Human Factors exam to do)...

Does this mean that I now have until September 2014 to get to Australia and get my Human Factors Exam finished??

Looking for answers.

[just a dumb pilot]

http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/part-61-reforms-postponed (http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/part-61-reforms-postponed)
Surely not just a day after the Senate hearings.
:=

[VH-XXX]

As reported by Horatio yesterday in the other thread:

http://www.pprune.org/pacific-general-aviation-questions/526786-part-61-special-pilot-licence-2.html

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

A h e m ...

:}

And, now the subject of an 'official' CASA newsletter, dated 19 Nov @11.27hrs.....

:}

[Sarcs]

New implementation timetable for licensing suite (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_101830)

Changes are being made to the implementation schedule for the new licensing suite in Parts 61, 64, 141 and 142 of the Civil Aviation Safety Regulations.
The primary reason for the changes is the need to give the aviation industry more time to prepare for the commencement of the new regulations.
Despite CASA’s education and information campaign on the new licensing regulations many pilots and people working in flying training are only starting to understand the new rules.
While the new regulations do not make major changes to existing practices it is clear more time for education and information communication is required.
CASA consulted widely over a lengthy period of time on the new licensing suite. Over a number of years CASA issued a variety of consultation documents, called for and analysed comments and suggestions and held meetings and discussions with the aviation industry on the proposed changes.
The new regulations were made on 14 February 2013, with a commencement date of 4 December 2013.
Despite the long lead times and the many opportunities for feedback in the past, CASA received a relatively large number of comments and constructive suggestions after the new regulations were made in February.
As a result CASA proposed a package of amendments to clarify the intent of the regulations, correct any anomalies and make improvements which will benefit the aviation industry. Due to issues beyond CASA’s control it has not been possible to make these amendments before 4 December 2013.
Taking all these factors into account CASA has decided to change the commencement date of the licensing suite to 1 September 2014.
The new timetable for the commencement and transition of the licensing suite will give the aviation industry the opportunity to provide more feedback to CASA on implementation issues.
CASA will ensure the highest possible safety outcomes continue to be achieved with a reasonable level of regulatory requirements. This is in line with the Federal Government’s policy on reducing regulatory burdens on costs to industry.
More information on the licensing suite (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_101716).

Media contact:
Peter Gibson
Mobile: 0419 296 446
Email: [email protected]
Ref: MR7813

:ok:

ps Interesting last paragraph:rolleyes:

[Horatio Leafblower]

After blaming the industry at the start, he gets around to the real reasons about halfway through. :ugh:

spin spin spin :rolleyes:

[HighFlyer75]

Wow, after asking my original question I never would have thought that the answer would be "never mind, nothing is changing". Still, quite a few people on here don't seem too surprised so I guess I have a lot to learn about CASA :)

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thanks for that Mr Sarcs,
Am 'away' at the mo, and don't know how to 'right click' on me I-pad to copy and paste, or supply the link...
Dinasoor....
Ta
:ok:

That is an 'interesting' last para....by gum...
:confused:
Waiting till I see the detail of reduced costs to industry.....t'aint Christmas yet is it..??
:}

[just a dumb pilot]

What an embarrassment for the SKULL and Mrdak who will jump ship first.

[DWB50]

CASA has announced that the implementation of legislation relating to Part 61, 141 & 142 has been deferred from 04 December 2013 to September 2014 - a period of 9 months.
This is largely as a result of pressure from AOPA and other industry bodies/organisations seeking clarification from CASA regarding certain anomalies which appeared in the proposed legislation changes.
AOPA will continue to work for the benefit of its members and the industry as a whole.

[5-in-50]

The 9 month delay is a smart move, despite our having to endure the 'old' system for a time longer...

Our training organisation, holding regular team meetings to discuss and develop understanding of the new structure, came up with pages of questions that were simply unanswerable or stonewalled by CASA employees. This leads me to think the actual reason there is a delay is not the industries inability to adapt in time, but CASA's inability to effectively interpret and disseminate their own proposed changes.

Talk about a completely disjointed operation. Who is writing these rules and not telling the rest of CASA about it???

[Volumex]

It would take less than 9 months for a competent and capable organisation, such as the NZ CAA, to take over all of the regulatory functions of CASA.

[Old Akro]

Did you see that CASA are blaming the delay on industry

need to give the aviation industry more time to prepare for the commencement of the new regulations.

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - New implementation timetable for licensing suite (http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS%3ASTANDARD%3A%3Apc=PC_101830)

UNFKNBLVBL

CASA was unable to answer basic questions from industry about how it will work and now its the industry's fault.

[donderwolkje]

oh dear! what a rabble.......

[Kharon]

Sarcs # 43 – "CASA will ensure the highest possible safety outcomes continue to be achieved with a reasonable level of regulatory requirements. This is in line with the Federal Government’s policy on reducing regulatory burdens on costs to industry."

It's another quick about face; what happened to the great "regulate to the maximum possible extent, cost is not our concern" speech. Fair dinkum, they make a whirling dervish dance look like a yoga class.

Spin to the max.

[Volumex]

Interesting to note that in the minutes from the CASA Standards Consultative Committee meeting held 4 July 2012, it was stated:
John McCormick, CASA Director of Aviation Safety remarked that he is cognisant of the burden on industry to keep up with change. He reported that at the recent Senate Inquiry, the recommendation was to accelerate Parts 61, 141 and 142 – to introduce these by the end of the year. To continue, John stated that CASA has gained significant momentum over the last few years with the establishment of the Aviation Regulation Task Force, which was formed in concert with the Attorney General’s Department and that he was loathe to disrupt this demonstrably successful initiative. However, John said, CASA can and will moderate the commencement date of the new regulation suites and develop savings provisions as necessary as the amount of transition that is required by the industry is assessed with the overriding caveat that many of the remaining regulatory parts must be introduced and implemented as one package, they cannot viably stand-alone.
Link to SCC meeting minutes (http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/newrules/scc/scc_meetings/scc38_minutes.pdf) page 5&6

[Wally Mk2]

God I hope the rest of the Aviation world isn't looking to close at us & if they are then they are probably thinking that Capt Cook still has the Endeavor anchored off the coast!!!!:ugh:
In what a little over 200 years we have built a handful of outdated congested dromes, an ATC system that suits the Wright Bro's days, a regulatory body that ought to get back on that ship & sail back to the mother country & get the flogging themselves over there, shameful & that's just the Aviation sector of this backward country!!!

Wmk2

[Weed]

CASA. Unfit to regulate.

[poteroo]

CASA were really on the proverbial 'hiding-to-nothing' once they'd run their expensive series of explanation/training meetings.

In the face of all their demonstrated inability to answer many quite important questions - they could hardly have persisted and implemented Part 61. There would have been a well defined paper trail right back to the top of CASA - and with a Ministerial Review coming up, they could hardly afford that.

So, the alternative was chosen. Present the delay as being the fault of a dumb industry - and they, CASA, are 'here-to-help'. Then, when the fan has been cleaned - rewrite Part 61 with exactly the same rules included, but couched in ever more legalistic terminology - and viola....we have the final solution!!

happy days,

[Clare Prop]

So, now I have an AOC which expires at the end of June so will have to go to all the expense of renewing it for just three months before it is obsolete, or just cease trading for three months might be easier. :mad::mad:

[Jabawocky]

I bet they never considered that.

Put in an objection and ask them for June 2015. :}

[Aussie Bob]

It would seen that Part 61 has been postponed and the reason given by CASA is we pilots are a bit slow in catching on and are resisting change.

At a recent PDP hosted by CASA and attended by yours truly at considerable expence we learned mostly that CASA were unable to answer a lot of questions relating to this fiasco and were commonly heard stating "we are still working on that". At the time I wondered how so much could be achieved by December the 4th.

Just glad to know that us pilots are to blame :ugh:

[mattyj]

Bloody pilots..CASAs job would be so much easier without them!!

..and while we're at it..if they could get rid of aircraft too, then they could achieve so much more!

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well......From another thread on same.....

"Received in today's email, Fri 22/11/13,

"Attention all pilots ...December AvSafety Seminars
New aviation regulations are coming, and so are the last AvSafety Seminars for 2013. The AvSafety seminar series is specifically designed to help you understand Regulatory change including:

New part 61 Pilot licence
Flying School activities
Electronic Flight Bags
New Fatigue rules
Performance Based navigation
How you can participate in a range of future plans.
CASA’s aviation safety advisors (along with CASA specialists when available) will present attendees with all you need to know about regulatory change that will affect you."

The last sentence says it all.....and this is only a portion of the said notice....

Being held at ....
December Seminars are being held at:

Dubbo
Jindabyne
Murray Bridge
Coonamble (contact the Coonamble Aero Club for attendance)

And so on and so on and......


So, youse guys and gals, IF 'n ya are out and about the aforementioned areas, on the no doubt advised dates, then ALL will be explained!

It says so in the email!!

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[ravan]

Read the "Press Release" on the CASA website about Part 61,Part 141,Part 142 et al and by the time I had finished reading, I thought that I had not read such an arrogant, condescending "politispeak" document in a long time.

A raft of ill thought out changes, conceived without sufficient regard for industry and poorly prepared for implementation, and they want to blame the pilots....?:mad:

[poteroo]

Maybe we could get another subject onto their agenda - PBR = Performance Based Regulation.

They'd be out of a job !

happy days,

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well, for those of you who are near Moorabbin,

'Ere yas go....

Please circulate the agenda as widely as possible.

The meeting is open to pilots, operators, LAMEs, AMOs, manufacturing, design and certification personnel.

Senator Fawcett wants to hear of experiences good and bad.

His feedback to Truss will be important.

Ken Cannane
Executive Director
AMROBA
Phone: (02) 97592715
Fax: (02) 97592025
Mobile: 0408029329
AMROBA :: Home (http://www.amroba.org.au)

Safety All Around.


And the venue..??

AMROBA – AGENDA
MOORABBIN AVIATION INDUSTRY MEETING DECEMBER 13, 2013
Location: Moorabbin Airport 1000 – 1500
Invited: Maintenance Organisations, Operators and Licence Holders
Host: Aviation Maintenance Repair & Overhaul Business Association, inc.
Purpose: Discuss Issues, Government Aviation Policy & Future Effect on Aviation
Contact: Linton Hayres. Aircraft Propellers & Spares. [email protected]
Mobile 0408 565 134
Location: Dingley International Hotel (Next to Airport)
334-348 Boundary Road, Dingley 3172. (03) 9551 8344
1000 - 1020 Introduction Ken Cannane, Executive Director, AMROBA

There yas go....:ok:

[Jack Ranga]

raven, considering the arrogant c u next tuesday in charge of the joint, is it any wonder?

[dubbleyew eight]

imagine the mindset if you will, or the degree of myopic arrogance, needed to spend $200 million on a rewrite of the regulations and never once have an inkling of an idea that changing the regs negated all of the inter country agreements on cross recognition of operations.

I am stunned at the incompetence.

[Sarcs]

PP: Understanding the rules – Opinion (http://proaviation.com.au/news/?p=1760)

Preamble to industry quotes...:(

..."Those repeated assertions prompted irate responses from individuals and organisations. Some didn’t mind being identified while others explained that they held various CASA certificates and a wife and kids to feed. One actually drew our attention to a fast-track process buried in a CASA manual that helps you identify somebody as a fit and proper person {WTF??}. So we’ve de-identified the lot..."


“It’s interesting how [Director John McCormick] is happy to front all the media about the implementation, but he’s nowhere to be heard when it‘s postponed. Instead we all get a media release from Peter Gibson blaming industry for all the delays!”
“I feel insulted by the CASA machine. It says that the reasons why they are deferring the implementation of Part 61 in part are ‘to give the industry more time to prepare’. Can anyone advise when the first education programme started in earnest? My first awareness was during a two day ‘professional development programme’ (PDP) meeting for Approved Testing Officers in September 2013.”
“Only starting to understand the new rules?” They haven’t circulated them yet. Where’s the Part 61 MOS?”
“As for ‘Despite the long lead time’ etc–we’re alleged to be at fault. With whom did they consult? Organisations? Only? Well, I belong to organisations and I haven’t seen them. I also am an affected individual and I was not consulted. Nothing was drawn to my attention. I was not asked for my opinion. Were any other individuals asked for their opinion?”
“The fact that CASA hasn’t produced a Manual of Standards (MOS) that will be ready by 4 December 2013– obviously didn’t count – were we supposed to write that as well? Are we, the industry, are all so stupid? The whole thing smacks of ‘process versus outcome,’ which is what micromanagement is really all about!”
“Only starting to understand?That describes the apparent subject knowledge of CASA people when we ask them to explain the intent of a particular regulation. I was embarrassed for the CASA guys at the PDP meeting because they were obviously not informed, trained or equipped to explain the material they were promoting, or its outcomes; and they apparently weren’t allowed to answer questions. Also when that “consultation” took place (it was supposed to be a ‘personal development program’ meeting,) the actual draft rules hadn’t even been published yet so there couldn’t be any meaningful dialogue.”
“It would be easy to form the impression that CASA is among the organisations that are “only starting to understand,” especially when you review the mountains of amendments that have closely followed the recent launches of sets of regulations.” No comment needed...:*

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

From AMROBA, a little more 'fleshing out' of the agenda for the Moorabbin Meeting....

AMROBA – AGENDA
MOORABBIN AVIATION INDUSTRY MEETING DECEMBER 13, 2013
Location: Moorabbin Airport 1000 – 1500
Invited: Maintenance Organisations, Operators and Licence Holders
Host: Aviation Maintenance Repair & Overhaul Business Association, inc.
Purpose: Discuss Issues, Government Aviation Policy & Future Effect on Aviation
Contact: Linton Hayres. Aircraft Propellers & Spares. [email protected]
Mobile 0408 565 134
Location: Dingley International Hotel (Next to Airport)
334-348 Boundary Road, Dingley 3172. (03) 9551 8344

1000 - 1020 Introduction Ken Cannane, Executive Director, AMROBA
Change – need for new direction
Review – will it achieve change?
1030 – 1040 Government Policy – Direction Senator David Fawcett
LNP Aviation Policy
1040 – 1300 Open Forum - Issues
Chairs: Senator Fawcett, Ken Cannane
Local issues with:
 Airports/Operations/Maintenance/Personnel
 CASA interaction/processes & procedures.
 EASA and/or FAR system for Non-Airline sectors
 Pilot & Engineer qualifications and licensing
 Industry Concerns for future
 Regulatory Rewrite – Stop??
1230 – 1300 Working Lunch (Sandwiches etc Provided)
1300 – 1455 The Way Ahead
Chairs: Ken Cannane, Linton Hayres
Industry Expectations – Your Opinions
 FAR system for non-airline
o Pros & cons
 Independent LAME
 FAA Fixed Based Operators System
 Approved Maintenance Organisations
 AME Licensing
 Pilot/Instructor Licensing
o Independent Flight Instructors
1455 – 1500 Close Summation and thanks
Ken Cannane

RSVP: Please notify Linton Hayres (details above) of numbers attending for catering purposes

Thankyou:ok:

[Sarcs]

Also from AMROBA this from their latest news letter, VOL 10 Issue 11 (http://amroba.org.au/files/3913/8458/3287/Vol_10_Issue_11.pdf):D:D:
Back in Business — New Government

Warren Truss has fulfilled one of the promises in the Government’s Aviation Policy Paper by announcing a Review Team to look at just about all aspects of aviation including government departments and agencies.

Lowering costs and red tape is the key to the government’s aviation policy — this is easy to achieve in aviation. It was also the basis of regulatory
reform for the last 20 plus years but has been such an abject failure up till now.

This government has turned the spotlight onto the government departments and agencies involved with the aviation industry.

One cannot imagine support for this Review coming from his own Department let alone CASA or the ATSB.

Mike Mrdyck, Secretary of the Department of Infrastructure; Mike Dolan, ATSB; Allan Hawke, Chair of CASA Board; John McCormick, CEO of CASA and CASA’s Senior Executive would have been against such a review.

The terms of reference for the review clearly demonstrates that this government does not have confidence in the current direction of aviation reform by those persons listed above.

AMROBA membership supports the all encompassing review and hope they have enough time to properly analyse the aviation system properly.

We appreciated the LNP policy stating that:
“Labor’s approach to aviation policy over the past six years has seen cost after cost added to the bottom lines of airlines and airports, pilots and passengers.

Together, these measures have made the Australian industry increasingly uncompetitive internationally and have seen many smaller aviation providers struggle to survive.

Government imposed red tape is beginning to overwhelm many smaller and medium-sized businesses which struggle to cope with changing,
complicated and confusing requirements.”

To achieve this massive change, they also recognised that they needed to:
 reform the structure of the Civil Aviation Safety
Authority;
 revitalise the General Aviation Action Agenda;
 enhance aviation skills, training and development.

AMROBA will lobby for:
 A more responsive CASA structure that holds a senior individual responsible for standards, regulatory services and oversight for discrete
industry sectors must be an outcome.

 A 3 tier legislative system where ICAO standards & practices are promulgated by CASA as ‘aviation safety standards’ referred to in
CASRs must also be an outcome.

 A FAR based system for the non-airline sectors must be another outcome.
It would appear the IOS membership is swelling...:ok:

[Up-into-the-air]

The following gives a breakdown of the way casa goes about it's business of consultation.

This article I have found shows how casa has in it's "supposed" consultation with industry, muscled the results.

Has CASA represented Industry in Regulatory change ? Part 61 debacle | Assistance to the Aviation Industry (http://vocasupport.com/?p=2489)

[Paragraph377]

Will the Angry Man and his bearded 'mini-me' be attending the AMROBA meeting? If so I hope he has the Comcar fuelled up this time :ok:

It is becoming more and more blatantly obvious that all levels of the industry have had a gutful of CASA either postulating or blaming everything that fails on the IOS. The smart people are the ones not working for the bureaucracy.
My understanding is that the Australian aviation industry employs approximately 100 000 souls directly. Is it time for a mass vote of no confidence in the bureaucratic silo's and their wrecking ball?

[Up-into-the-air]

The helicopter industry association (http://www.austhia.com) released the following:

However, the relationship between CASA and industry working groups (the latter are volunteers) soured when CASA advised the media ‘the delay was caused by the need to give the aviation industry more time to prepare for the commencement of the new regulations. Despite CASA’s education and information campaign on the new licensing regulations many pilots and people working in flying training are only starting to understand the new rules’. This was a disappointing statement and no doubt politically motivated as CASA is about to undergo a major external audit at the direction of the Deputy Prime Minister.
The AHIA on behalf of the helicopter industry does not accept the CASA media report, as the ‘lack of understanding’ is due to errors or unreasonable changes in the nearly 1,300 pages of material needing review and re-working in many areas.
Read the editorial that was supplied by a member at:

Part 61 Industry asks why CASA can?t get it right Politics involved?? | Assistance to the Aviation Industry (http://vocasupport.com/?p=2568)

[Up-into-the-air]

and so does the RAAA:

The degree to how far out of touch casa is is revealed in the Part 61 debacle

“It is unfortunate that CASA, in its media release, appears to blame industry entirely for the delay in the roll-out of new licensing regulations,” he said.
“It is another example of the breakdown in the relationship between CASA and operators, a breakdown that is hurting the government and the industry.
"The CASA Board and senior management must understand that the genuine concerns about the timing of the roll-out came from industry and within CASA.
“After ten years of development due to CASA delays, it’s far better to take a little more time and get it right than rush it now and have to clean up a mess.”


and at:

RAAA says ?No to CASA? | Assistance to the Aviation Industry (http://vocasupport.com/?p=2611)

[Paragraph377]

Oh c'mon UITA, you know that helicopters are a pain in CAsA's ass. Silly little two man cubicles with a rotor! They are as annoying as GA, freighters, AG's and Warbirds. Ground the lot of them, ban them even. Every time there is an annoying crash it ruins Herr Skulls weekend!
Unless it is a wide body jet the Screaming Skull doesn't give a gram of pony pooh! And as for manufacturing, engineering or even avionics or airframe maintainers oh no no no, we don't want them bellows Big Chief Angry, get rid of them all, now! Curse AMROBA, the Helisexuals, ASIC holders, aerodromes, Ma and Pa Kettle and the old man who lived in a shoe.....all IOS, the lot of them, what is the world coming to, poor poor CAsA, we don't have time for this sh#t. And you can take the Senators too, Channel 7, Chris Reason and those families pushing for justice such as the Hares and Urquharts! Please leave CAsA alone so they can do what they do best..................SFA.

[Old Akro]

Just got the CASA "aviation Safety Yearbook"

Chariman's remarks from Allan Hawke on the inside cover:

"..... with flight crew licencing and the aircraft operations suite (of regulatory packages) on schedule to be delivered next year."

Do they actually believe their own spin?