Taranis flies

[Frostchamber]

It would appear that the bird has flown. Notably without fanfare.
Taranis makes maiden flight - IHS Jane's 360 (http://www.janes.com/article/28899/taranis-makes-maiden-flight)

[Force For Good]

£180 million seems a very low 'total' cost for this project when compared to a modern fighter aircraft for example.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Wouldn't it be nice if this represented a resurgence in the UK's leadership in aviation r&d, and production.

As if, I expect we'll just give it all away as usual.

[Willard Whyte]

£180 million seems a very low 'total' cost for this project when compared to a modern fighter aircraft for example.

Don't worry, if the govt. decides to buy any I'm sure BAe will adjust the cost by adding a zero on the right (per unit, natch).

[Deepest Norfolk]

Can't really see how a fighter type UAV can save on costs, apart from in crew systems on board. Surely to be as effective the pilot will have to be trained as well as any front line fighter pilot today. To go as far, carry as much and target effectively it would need the same systems as a "real" aeroplane in the same scenario and be of similar size.

As to combat, what of the dogfight scenario. How can one keep an effective look out from a "flight sim" type arrangement many hundreds of miles away? What of the "head on a swivel" practice in combat? Not to mention the time lag from console to satellite, to asset and back to console. I would suspect that by the time the console operator had received the missile launch warning and transmitted a hard break to the asset, said asset will already be a fireball on the way to earth.

Maybe if there had been a person in the cockpit, many "wedding parties" would not have been engaged either.

Just my Sunday morning thoughts from someone who knows little of UAVs other than what I read here and in the media.

DN

[Willard Whyte]

Taranis is a concept for an attack aircraft rather than a fighter.

One would suppose that in air-air any potential drone design would act without human input for the very reasons you outline - and be able to manoeuvre at considerably more than 9G.

[Lima Juliet]

Having been in and around Taranis in the early days, the whole idea was for it to be semi-autonomous - ie. you tell it to go looking for Scud launchers in a part of your battlespace and it cracks on, when it finds one it reports back and then the human decides if it is a valid target and then tells it to engage it.

That was 5 years ago, so I would hope that things have moved on a bit. Also, Taranis is a small demonstrator, about the size of a Hawk and is not intended to go into production. Some of you may remember Corax and Raven? These were also very small demonstrators about 7-10 years ago that were used to help develop the flight control and mission control software.

I always thought that Taranis would never actually fly and BAe should have put their efforts into it rather than the ill conceived HERTi and Mantis. It was also seen as some a s threat to F35 and so I reckon that some stalled it deliberately to ensure the UK would get F35.

Don't forget that Taranis has its roots in the Future Offensive Air System (FOAS) that was conceived in the 90s. If we had pushed it forward at that time then I believe that we would have led the world - sadly now, it is one of many including RQ-170, X-45 and NeuroN.

But much as it pains me to say it, well done BAe! If only you had put your efforts into this earlier...

LJ

Here is Raven in 2003...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmzsx1YrobHR0-F51Hz33yAz35XVSCMV0WUiJ3QYI2Hi_OpVAC

[Frostchamber]

On the face of it the cost of Taranis does look fairly reasonable, depending on how far it takes things. The question is what more would be needed to operationalise it and how expensive that would be.

For example, would it be reasonable to say that Taranis is to an operational spinoff as ACA was to Typhoon? Or if Taranis proves to be highly successful in proving the technology, could the step to something operational be relatively affordable (leaving aside the obvious "it's BAe so of course it will be exorbitant" point)? And would an operational spin-off need to be significantly bigger than the Hawk-sized Taranis?

[Lima Juliet]

That would depend if you wanted to carry weapons or not? Taranis is a demonstrator just like ACA or EAP.

[tartare]

I thought it had been flying at Woomera for a number of months?
Presumably from here? (https://maps.google.com.au/maps?ie=UTF-8&q=woomera+airport&fb=1&gl=au&hq=woomera+airport&cid=0,0,10618523914967333365&ei=HqptUqqVPOaQigKQx4HIAg&ved=0CJkBEPwS)
Nice long sealed runway, a few big hangars in which to hide, and all that lovely closed airspace to the North West?

[500N]

I thought it had been flying in Woomera as well.

And hide ?

No one ever goes there :O

[tartare]

Ha!
True.
I wonder if Evetts Field - just outside of Koolymilka may have been redeveloped?
It certainly still looks abandoned from Google Earth - but right in the middle of the prohibited area.
Interestingly, I can't post a link to it :eek:
Also under the control of RAAF Woomera.
Lots of sneaky beaky stuff goes on up in the WPA.
Site of some of the first international trials of Global Hawk.

[500N]

Haven't been there for 20+ years and back then it was pretty run down and not much going on. Lots of nice Fast Jets hidden in the hangars / buildings there at that time.

Looking at Google Earth, definitely looks like a few more buildings
around the site.


That airstrip you mentioned right in the middle of the prohibited area ?
Is that just a single tarmac strip ?

We "met" a C-130 somewhere out there, can't remember exactly where it was but within walking distance of the Right Hand launch pad / Control building which I think was called EC6.

I would probably have been about 20 - 30kms as we still flew out in the dark that night so it can't have been more.

I remember we were warned the take off might be a bit "bumpy" as
the surface of the strip had collapsed on landing or something.

Do you know where that is ?

[tartare]

500N - yes, I think you may be recalling Evett's Field.
If you switch to Google Maps Satellite view and search for Koolymilka, just to the right of the buildings and the EC6 launchpad are two intersecting paved runways aligned roughly 36/18 and 29/11 (hard to tell cos the numbers have been painted out).
Apparently Jindiviks used to fly from there.
See this (http://raafacs.homestead.com/2CSWOMMERA.html)

[500N]

tartare

I sent you a PM.

Yes, I found it and yes I think that is it as it is well within walking or marching distance.

Interesting link.
I would not have liked to have worked out at Woomera building an airfield
but that whole area is a superb facility for any type of live fire weapons testing.

[tartare]

500N - check your PMs.

[Frostchamber]

"I thought it had been flying at Woomera for a number of months?"

Quite likely - the announcement suggests the first flight happened a while ago, but AFAIK this is the first public acknowledgement. It could hardly have been lower key, perhaps because of sensitivity re the "killer drones" debate. I doubt any future releases will big up the "autonomous" aspect of its proposed capability...

[Lyneham Lad]

Currently showing on the Beeb's website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26052931)

Footage of Britain's new unmanned drone in flight were revealed on Wednesday.

The Taranis uses the latest stealth technology and is capable of launching precision air strikes in hostile territory.

Flying invisible to radar, the Taranis can be operated via satellite link from anywhere the world.

[ORAC]

AW&ST: VIDEO - Taranis…Out of the Black (http://www.aviationweek.com/Blogs.aspx?plckBlogId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog:27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post:aafed047-c006-4d9e-b4c0-42ce26116222)

........First flight of the UCAV was carried out at 9.08 am on August 10, 2013 at an undisclosed location, widely believed to be the BAE Systems-run Woomera test range in South Australia, where the company has flown UAV demonstrators in the past.........

A second flight was performed a week later, but officials will not say how many flights have been completed. Instead the flight test program is gated subject to the success of the previous phase. The aircraft is currently in the second phase of flight tests and BAE Systems are hopeful that approval for a third will be given in the coming weeks and will start later this year.............

Videos, provided by BAE Systems show the Taranis during take-off, landing and in flight:

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uXS1iGx03eg

[newt]

Whatever the cost it seems to be the future so we best all get used to it!

[tezzer]

My uneducated guess is Tindal. NT

[500N]

It's the airport at Woomera. The one just north of the town, not the one north of Lake Hart.


Interesting to see a bit of green grass by the runway, must have rained :rolleyes:

[tartare]

Yep - saw all that red earth and flat horizon, and thought there's only one place that can be...

[500N]

Agree. Too red and flat for Tindal.

I then checked as well, Woomera has a black strip, Tindal is cream coloured
plus of course Woomera has a runway 18 !

Had to hang around there for 24 hours once (not a nice place :O),
but were some very interesting things in the old metal hangars !

[Wander00]

How do the aerodynamics work without some sort of vertical tail surface? Only asking - my aeros studies are way back when.

[tartare]

I'm guessing... but in general blended wing planforms use the ailerons as drag rudders.
The B-2 also has what's known as a beaver tail which can move very rapidly to affect pitch - many times a second. Not sure if Taranis does.
Combine that with some clever software, and you might as well be flying a conventional `tube with wings' and a vertical stabilizer.

[uksatcomuk]

The C17 carrying Taranis ZZ250 was tracked last May on the PP network..
It left Brize for Warton where a couple of hours later it departed for Australia....it was picked up two days later as it flew towards Woomera.

The video shows the flight test which took place November 2013.

[Mick.B]

Taranis drone: Britain's $336m supersonic unmanned aircraft launched over Woomera - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Who wants to guess what the chase plane is. Look for the shadow at the end of the Vid.

[Willard Whyte]

Is it just me or is the video link ^ not present?

Successful test flight for Taranis stealth drone - YouTube

[Surplus]

Twin seat F16?

[500N]

Hawk.

.........

[MPN11]

Willard Whyte ... there also appears to be a mega problem with Adobe Flash Player with some system configurations, saying "Flash out-of-date" and leading you to an upgrade to v. 12.0.0.44 which then doesn't work.

i can't view your YouTube link at all.

(EDIT ... successfully downgraded to v. 11.9. Nice looking machine!)

[Iceburg1]

Looks life an f16 or maybe a euro fighter. Can't really see the wing

[Dash8driver1312]

Come on, anyone can tell it's an Aurora flown by Iranian pilots on behalf of Spetznaz to keep track of what us crazy Limeys might do next!

[racedo]

Taranis will be nicknamed Rex............................
Taranis Rex.

ok will get my coat and hat.

[HaveQuick2]

"Who wants to guess what the chase plane is. Look for the shadow at the end of the Vid."


SIAI-Marchetti S.211

[Blacksheep]

Flash update - you have to close your browser then re-open it. Worked for me on the iMac anyway.

[Dash8driver1312]

You mean Taranis saw us Rex

[Davef68]

I'd say it looks like a TA-4 Skyhawk, but it's probably an Aussie Hawk

Better vids here:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/526349-taranis-flies.html#post8302540

[Heathrow Harry]

BAe still refuse to confirm it's in Woomera :confused::confused:

[Heathrow Harry]

why oh why oh why do they try and keep the location quiet?

Everyone knows where they've been flying it from

[racedo]

BAe still refuse to confirm it's in Woomera http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

Its a stealth drone and they forgot where they put it :E

[Tiger_mate]

It is RW18 at Woomera, the unusual holding point is clearly visual on Google Earth.

[Tester_76]

why oh why oh why do they try and keep the location quiet?

Everyone knows where they've been flying it from


Why does it matter enough to mention it in two threads?

[defizr]

Are its dimensions top secret too? How big is it?

[racedo]

Are its dimensions top secret too? How big is it?

Completely secret hence why Airfix is launching its model in a weeks time:E

[safetypee]

Dimensions, Airfix; it doesn’t matter if the geometry is correct because it's a scale model. What might matter is which scale range Airfix issue it in, 1:72, 1:48, 1:32, … … or 1:1 as it is rumoured that Airfix make the exterior shell for BAe.

[Willard Whyte]

Are its dimensions top secret too? How big is it?

Supposedly:

Height: 4 metres (13 ft)
Length: 11.35 metres (37.2 ft)
Wingspan: 9.1 metres (30 ft)
Weight: 8 tonnes (18,000 lb)
Range: Intercontinental
Engine thrust: 6,480 pounds (2.94 t)

From the shadows of Taranis and whatever the chase a/c was (small trainer/fighter/whatever, looks about right.

[gr4techie]

BAe still refuse to confirm it's in Woomera :confused::confused:

It certainly doesn't look like the Lancashire coast.

[Party Animal]

From the MOD Intranet:

Is Bob Fraser the former Nimrod driver last seen on the MRA4 team?

First flight trials of Taranis aircraft
06/02/2014

MOD and BAE Systems have revealed that the Taranis unmanned combat air vehicle surpassed all expectations during its first flight trials.

http://defenceintranet.diif.r.mil.uk/News/BySubject/Image%20Library/RS8331_DP066224int.jpg (http://defenceintranet.diif.r.mil.uk/News/BySubject/Image%20Library/RS8331_DP066224int.jpg)


Taranis in flight
[Picture: Chris Ryding, BAE Systems]

The most advanced aircraft ever built by British engineers made its maiden flight at an undisclosed test range on Saturday 10 August 2013 under the command of BAE Systems test pilot Bob Fraser.
MOD has today revealed that the demonstrator aircraft made a perfect take-off, rotation, ‘climb-out' and landing on its 15-minute first flight. A number of flights took place last year, of up to 1 hour in duration and at a variety of altitudes and speeds.
The Taranis demonstrator is the result of 1.5 million man-hours of work by the UK's leading scientists, aerodynamicists and systems engineers from 250 UK companies.
The aircraft has been designed to demonstrate the UK's ability to create an unmanned air system which, under the control of a human operator, is capable of undertaking sustained surveillance, marking targets, gathering intelligence, deterring adversaries and carrying out strikes in hostile territory.
The findings from the aircraft's flights prove that the UK has developed a significant lead in understanding unmanned aircraft which can strike with precision over a long range whilst remaining undetected.





http://defenceintranet.diif.r.mil.uk/News/BySubject/Image%20Library/RS8337_DP066232int.jpg (http://defenceintranet.diif.r.mil.uk/News/BySubject/Image%20Library/RS8337_DP066232int.jpg)


Taranis taxiing at BAE Systems in Warton, Lancashire
[Picture: Ray Troll, BAE Systems]

The technological advances made through Taranis will also help MOD and the Royal Air Force make decisions on the future mix of manned and unmanned fast jet aircraft and how they will operate together in a safe and effective manner for the UK's defences.
Costing £185 million and funded jointly by MOD and UK industry, the Taranis demonstrator aircraft was formally unveiled in July 2010, but only a very limited number of scientists and engineers have ever been given full access to the top secret aircraft.
Initial ‘power-up' or ground testing commenced later in 2010 at BAE Systems' military aircraft factory in Warton, Lancashire, followed by a comprehensive and highly detailed programme of pre-first-flight milestones.
These included unmanned pilot training, radar cross-section measurements, ground station system integration and, in April 2013, taxi trials on the runway at Warton.
The aircraft and its ground station were then shipped from Warton to the test-range before being reassembled and undergoing systems and diagnostics checks. Taranis then made a number of high speed taxi tests in July before its maiden flight in August 2013.





http://defenceintranet.diif.r.mil.uk/News/BySubject/Image%20Library/RS8335_DP066229int.jpg (http://defenceintranet.diif.r.mil.uk/News/BySubject/Image%20Library/RS8335_DP066229int.jpg)


Taranis taxiing at BAE Systems in Warton, Lancashire
[Picture: Ray Troll, BAE Systems]

Minister for Defence Equipment, Support and Technology, Philip Dunne, said:
"Taranis is providing vital insights that will help shape future capabilities for our armed forces in coming decades. Its advanced technology is testament to the UK's world-leading engineering skills that keep Britain at the cutting-edge of defence."
Commenting on behalf of the industry team, Nigel Whitehead, Group Managing Director of BAE Systems, added:
"The first flight of Taranis represents a major landmark for UK aviation. The demonstrator is the most advanced air system ever conceived, designed and built in the UK.
"It truly represents an evolution of everything that has come before it. This milestone confirms the UK's leading position as a centre for engineering excellence and innovation."
About the size of a BAE Systems Hawk aircraft, Taranis has been designed and built by BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce, the systems division of GE Aviation (formerly Smiths Aerospace) and QinetiQ, working alongside MOD military staff and scientists.
In addition to prime contracting the project, BAE Systems led on many elements of the Taranis technology demonstrator, including the low observability, systems integration, control infrastructure and full autonomy elements (in partnership with QinetiQ).

[Davef68]

Some pics on the BAE site. INteresting they managed to avoid the spotters during testing at Warton!

http://www.baesystems.com/slideshow/BAES_165048/first-flight?startSlide=2

[uksatcomuk]

There is little doubt that Taranis and its predecessors were responsible for the outbreak of Black Triangle UFO hysteria during the late 90s , early 2K across NW UK.

Sometimes refered to as "The Package" these things were seen by many and its known that the large RC models were flown from the Lancs hillsides causing quite a stir :rolleyes:

Interestingly during this period there was a rash of microwave video
activity from Special Projects , thought to have been from Hawk or Tornado a/c....

Bearing in mind at least one sighting reported a "triangle" between two fast jets one wonders if the microwave front end video may have come from a UAV on trial.

Fact is always stranger than fiction.

[uksatcomuk]

Sorry , should have attached sample microwave image...as below circa 2000 , Hawk ... Jaguar ... Tornado...or ??????

http://satcomuk.yolasite.com/resources/WTN.jpg

http://satcomuk.yolasite.com/resources/WTN.jpg

[t43562]

BAE Systems' Taranis unmanned combat air system demonstrator is designed to defeat new counter-stealth radars, and may use thrust vectoring as a primary means of flight control and an innovative high-precision, passive navigation and guidance system, an AW&ST analysis indicates.

Taranis is a blended wing-body shape with no tail surfaces, like most UCAS designs for wide-band, all-aspect stealth. It has a triangular top-mounted inlet and 2-D V-shaped exhaust nozzle. The underside is flat, with visible outlines representing weapon-bay doors. Panels under the leading edge point to provision for a dual-antenna radar like a smaller version of that fitted to the B-2 bomber. The demonstrator may be designed so that functional weapon bays and sensors can be installed for a follow-on program.

The Rolls-Royce Adour engine is mounted low in the center fuselage, behind a serpentine duct. Two small doors are visible on either side of the raised centerbody, and are likely to be auxiliary inlets used at low speeds. The weapon-bay outlines are on either side of the engine and the forward-retracting main landing gears are outboard of the weapon bays. The demonstrator's gear comes from the Saab Gripen.

The wing leading edges are highly swept to reduce head-on radar cross-section at all wavelengths. The double-V trailing edge is swept more acutely than on most blended wing-body UCAS designs. Unlike the Northrop Grumman X-47B or the Dassault-led Neuron, there are no short-chord wing sections or short edges: The shortest edge is more than 11 ft. long.

.....Broadband Stealth May Drive Taranis Design (http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_02_17_2014_p33-662743.xml)

[NorthernKestrel]

Interesting report here on the RAeS website with interview with Taranis Project Pilot/Mission Commander Bob Fraser...


Royal Aeronautical Society | Insight Blog | Taranis unmasked (http://aerosociety.com/News/Insight-Blog/1885/Taranis-unmasked)

[Lima Juliet]

Uksatcomuk

There is little doubt that Taranis and its predecessors were responsible for the outbreak of Black Triangle UFO hysteria during the late 90s , early 2K across NW UK.

What utter hoop! There is every doubt. I watched Taranis being put together around 2008-11! The other aircraft were flown at Woomera - look at the colour of the ground, it's a big giveaway. The early development aircraft are tiny - no more than large scale models that could not be mistaken for what was 'Black Triangle UFO hysteria'.

Go back to wearing your tin-foil hat my friend!

LJ

[Mend em]

Party Animal - yes it is THE Bob Fraser; if you see him first, claim your £5