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weedman1990
21st Oct 2013, 21:01
Hi there,

I currently have a UK JAR PPL (19 PIC hours) and have just taken the final amount of ATPL theory examinations which i studied with Bristol Ground School. I want to do the remaining hours abroad and gain experience flying elsewhere and then come back to the UK and do my CPL/ME/IR.

I've been reading a number of threads about hour building and i cant get my mind on where to go and who to go with. I've listed below a few of my specifications.

1) I want to go somewhere with good weather for instance USA or Europe. I've noticed that a lot of you have said Phoenix, AZ.

2) It has to be cheap.

3) Has to have nearby Accommodation which is reachable within a 10 - 15 min walking distance or even better, onsite (I haven't passed my driving test yet :O).

4) What procedures (e.g. forms to fill in) do i have to do to be able to go to a particular country and do my hour building.

5) Be able to have good availability of aircraft.

6) Possible to finish hour building withing 4 - 8 weeks max.

7) Would there be a instructor available on hand if needed.

Would be grateful for the help.

Thanks

skyfox2
21st Oct 2013, 23:03
Why not see Florida flyers school?.i ll be there in decembermore or less

Morris542
22nd Oct 2013, 07:58
It has to be cheap. That made me laugh, isn't the first thing you learn about flying is that it isn't cheap!

I'm at the end of my hour building phase and I bought a share in an aircraft at my local airfield. Good availability, weather was good enough during the summer and having it local allowed me to carry on studying for ATPLs and working to build up the money. Not cheap but certainly less expensive than some methods.

Also having an aircraft in the UK has been useful as I've been able to take friends for flights, so they've paid for they're share of the cost, effectively halving my hourly rate on some flights!

OhNoCB
22nd Oct 2013, 12:42
I didn't go there in the end due to getting a good deal in Europe for hour building, but I had brief correspondence with Chandler Air Service (I think that's correct) in AZ and they seemed to be well priced and good folk.

G-F0RC3
22nd Oct 2013, 13:44
I think it's fantastic that you've got a PPL but not a driving license! :p I wonder how many people fall into that category? :)

grafity
22nd Oct 2013, 14:40
I'd highly recommend Chandler Air Service, but you need a rental car. The public transport in the states is crap.

Pilots Paradise | USA Flying Holidays (http://pilots-paradise.com/)
Maybe this is an option, I know of 1 guy from my ATPLs that went there. I haven't really talked to him about it, but it might be something to look at yourself.
Park your plane outside the accommodation, you can't ask for much more than that. :)

Other than that, as has been mentioned, look into your options at home as well. If you have friends and family will to share a bit of the cost it might be surprising how cheap it would cost you overall.

Genghis the Engineer
22nd Oct 2013, 14:57
I've flown out of Palm Springs, CA a few times. There are several rental outfits there - the town itself is a nice spot to be and has a choice of variously prices places to stay. Everything's close enough together that you can either walk, or just use a short cheap taxi ride. All the FBOs there seem to look after their aeroplanes well, always have instructors on hand, and you're far enough from the LA Basin to avoid most of the nasty airspace. Lots of nice trips to be done out of there and consistently excellent weather (just take lots of water, and get used to doing density altitude calculations).

Getting there from the UK, there are various connecting flights into Palm Springs international that are reasonably affordable - it also avoids the joys of LAX.

As for getting a US licence - just google "14 CFR 61.75" and you'll find all the answers. Or just search in the private flying section of PPrune - that particular topic gets discussed regularly and you should find all the answers very easily.

GAZ45
23rd Oct 2013, 11:25
I would second Chandler Air Service.

I have recently returned from flying nearly 70 hours. There was a guy staying in the school accommodation who used a push bike to get back and forth the airport as he didn’t drive (its one straight road although probably a 25 minute cycle). Also if you go on ‘air b’n’b’, you can find even cheaper accommodation that’s really close to the airport.

If you are planning to go to CAE Oxford for the waypoint modular programme then I would definitely suggest Chandler as it is in Phoenix airspace. When I was there I flew in and out of Oxford Goodyear airport – got to check out the OAA school there, and got to know the local airspace and popular routes, which I’m sure will help for the CPL/MEP that you do out there with Oxford.

Instruction is great at Chandler. Aircraft availability is good because they never seemed to overbook the flight rental aircraft and they have a reasonably sized fleet. They train on Warriors but use Cherokees for rental usually (as they are the cheapest). I never had issues with availability. I completed 70 hours in 4 weeks.

Oh and remember.... a lot of US schools quote hourly rates without tax added!

Any more questions feel free to PM.

Morris542
31st Oct 2013, 10:12
If only you could share the hours...

weedman1990
31st Oct 2013, 16:39
well apparently this place (Flight Program - Time Build Inc - Flight Time Building Program (http://timebuildinc.com/program.html#question)) says that you earn PIC hours while flying as a safety pilot :S.

MartinCh
2nd Nov 2013, 00:52
if FAA/US only pilot flew as safety pilot (and not as instructor) that legal with some caveats done to death on pprune and gazillion other websites. The European/non-US pilot would be the only PIC in their books, but as per FAA regs, when the handling/controls manipulating EASA etc chap is under hood, then the safety pilot is acting as PIC keeping lookout etc. I don't see why European guys could not have it OK'd by home CAA when the other person is not instructor/instructing. Logging lots of time as S/P in FAA system may be frowned upon by some companies, though.

weedman1990
7th Nov 2013, 17:39
I Finally made my decision, i decided to choose Chandler air Services. I received good feedback about them from a lot of different people.

JDZ1
8th Nov 2013, 02:19
Hello everyone,

I've searched endlessly for recent posts and feedback on hour building in the states...namely Florida and still haven't found great success.

I am flying out to florida mid January 2014 and would appreciate any great feedback from anyone who has recently completed hour building with a flying school in Florida or its surrounding areas.
I have emailed several schools and got very generic responses.

I am considering the Pan AM academy in Kissimee, Flight Time Building and Chandler Air Services.

I would really appreciate any feedback or advice on any of these three or any that you may know of.

Many Thanks

A future budding pilot

AirForceNone
8th Nov 2013, 13:39
Let us know how you get on.

I hope to be in your position soon

weedman1990
8th Nov 2013, 17:03
@AirForceNone - Will do mate. I just sent my license verification forms off on Monday to the UK CAA and FAA, so I'm hoping i get the Verification letter by the end of December or start of January. I emailed Chandler Air Services too and asked for a quote and they quoted me for 80 hours all taxed including accommodation with the checkout and ground training due to the mountains over in Arizona - £6045 which to me is a bargain. I am going to browse around for other accommodation and see what they can provide me with.

Straighten Up
13th Nov 2013, 16:43
Hi weedman

What aircraft did they offer you for this price?

Thanks

weedman1990
13th Nov 2013, 23:30
@straighten up

I think they offered me PA28 cause when they told me to email them when i phoned them up, they told me to email them with my details and what flying experience i have got. I told them that i flew Cessna 152's and PA28's so i'm sure that they quoted me for a PA28.

I can email them and find out for you though?

I don't really mind if its in a Cherokee to be honest. It will be a good experience and a learning curve for me.

Thanks

Pertti Jarvela
14th Nov 2013, 14:51
Hello

Looking to do time building in New England are in 2014.

Any tips?

Thanks

RedBullGaveMeWings
15th Nov 2013, 16:24
£6045 for 80 hours, all taxed including accomodation, checkout and ground school???
I knew they were good and cheap, but I could never expect such an offer!

Weedman, do you have any experience on Piper aircraft?
I have only flown Cessnas so far and was wondering if they provide a sort of familiarization course.

weedman1990
15th Nov 2013, 18:14
@Redbullgavemewings

Hahaa, exactly and i got quoted in the UK for 80 hours well over 10k

I have around 3 hours dual and 4 hours solo on a Piper Warrior PA28, i normally fly cessna's too but i have to get some dual hours in the UK before i go to the states because i haven't flown since November 2012 mainly because i concentrated on my ATPL'S. Now i have them out of the way i can concentrate on the hours and just fly full time!

I think Chandler Air Services will be able to help you out because personally i think those approx 3 days for the checkout and ground training will be enough to get familerised with the aircraft even if you haven't flown the PA28's before. Mind you i might even get made to fly the Piper Cherokees they have there because they are even cheaper. But anyway think the best thing for you to do is ask your instructor where you completed your PPL and tell him/her that you want to fly the PA28. Thats what i did.

Hope this helped.

RedBullGaveMeWings
15th Nov 2013, 19:25
No Pipers at the place I am doing my PPL, but I wouldn't mind some familiarization hours during hour building with an instructor.


Thanks!

weedman1990
16th Nov 2013, 01:35
Yeah i'm pretty sure they will provide that there when they offer you the ground training and the flying. Because then again they have to do a checkout!

weedman1990
19th Nov 2013, 21:55
@RedBullGaveMeWings

Just thought I'd let you know that Chandler Air Services gave me a quote on the PA28, so even if i chose to be on the Piper Cherokee the price would be even cheaper for me :)

RedBullGaveMeWings
19th Nov 2013, 23:02
Thanks, I appreciate the update. I will be writing them in a few.

jackcarls0n
20th Nov 2013, 05:40
Does anyone know of a good place to do multi hours time in Central Florida?

weedman1990
29th Nov 2013, 21:23
Try this place:

FlyMiami | Dean International - Miami Flight School - South Florida (http://www.flymiami.com/index.html)

They are based in Miami.

Duchess_Driver
9th Dec 2013, 20:32
Does anyone know of a good place to do multi hours time in Central Florida?

Just make sure you are actually going to get what you think you're getting

Taxes, wet rates..... and the number of (propper) P1 hours quoted.

Straighten Up
17th Dec 2013, 11:28
I posted in the N America forum but no reply. Wondering if anyone has any experience of this firm out of Long Beach airport, CA. They've quoted me $89/hr wet incl tax in a 152. Any feedback appreciated.

Lakhan
21st Dec 2013, 19:23
Just a quick question. To those who hour build in the US, do you take friends or other buddies with you? Just curious.

Second note: are you allowed to fly multi engine p1? Or does there have to be a safety pilot on board?

DeanKline
27th Dec 2013, 13:18
Hello !
I'm a newbie to this site, but i do have a question, which I could use a bit of advice on.

i am currently living in the UK and doing my PPL :ugh:. I grew up in the US (Albuquerque, NM) and I plan to head back there to do my hour building to reach the CPL prerequisites (150 hours, i believe?) as it seems like the most cost effective way to build my hours taking onto consideration the cost of building hours in the UK, especially since accomodation would already be taken care of- my old man stil lives in ABQ! :D

i'm wondering if the 'hour building' stage which sets you up for the CPL is normaly done in a single engine, such as a Piper or a C152/172 etc, or if its worth using some of these c 100 hours to build up Multi time?
Obviously i would need to obtain a rating for the Multi, but would it help if i used this time (and money) towards building both, and then go into my CPL and ATPL theory with experience in both?

Also, would it be a good idea to start my ATPL Theory whilst building hours?

just trying to get to grips with the best way to progress! My aim, if you hadnt already guesed, is to fly for a living, and i am going the modular route as i dont have £80+K to part with at the prime age of 22, for the integrated route .. thanks for reading, and i appreciate anyones '2cents'. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

forever the optimist.

flarepilot
29th Dec 2013, 01:07
in your case wouldn't it be 250 hours?

if you are smart, you will use the time to get an instrument rating


of course it is expensive but its up to you...I hate the single cessnas...try piper.

DeanKline
31st Dec 2013, 10:28
thanks for the advice FlarePilot.

Ive done most of my training in a Piper Warrior and i enjoy it, but from a cost perspective the Cessna seems to come out cheaper. Suppose this is more down to preference and is not so important..

so you are saying the entry requirements for CPL are 250hours TT to begin the CPL? I'm sure I read somewhere that is was 150hours TT to start CPL? is this different stateside as i may do ALL of my training out there..

the IR is a good idea although if i do this is in a single, would i then need to repeat that for a MEIR?

sorry for the questions and appreciate the help :ok:

OhNoCB
31st Dec 2013, 12:58
Not sure if it's different in the states (don't see why it would be, assuming still under the EASA regime) but 150h TT to start the CPL is correct.

I think the experience of hour building in a twin would be good, but honestly I don't think it's worth the amount extra you would be spending. The other problem (maybe easier in the states) is finding someone to let you rent a twin when you have virtually no experience. Think insurance requirements etc.

You can do a single engine IR as part of 'hour building' if you wish but bear in mind that you need exams completed for this, and you also need to make sure you're going to end up with enough PIC time for licence issue (hearing rumours that it will now be required to sit the CPL skills test). You do not have repeat the IR to get a multi engine version, but there is a conversion course as such. I believe it's 5 hours of which 3 can be done on a sim (from memory).

Lastly, theory before, during or after hour building is really up to you. I personally did the theory first doing maybe an hour a month just to keep my hand in, and then did the majority of the hour building afterwards. My reasoning for this was the I figured that the hour building was going to be the chance to be the most 'current' I ever had been to this point. Doing between 50-100h in a month or so should leave you very 'in tune' with the skills required, especially if you use the hour building properly to practice for CPL stuff (Cross countries to different places, different turning points, diversions in flight etc without a GPS). I think it is wise then to start the CPL straight after the hour building while you are still on top form, instead of doing the hour building, then sitting indoors doing theory for half a year then jumping into an airplane having done maybe a few hours in the last 6 months and hope to fly to CPL standard.

Private_flyer
31st Dec 2013, 14:57
Thinking of heading Stateside myself. Have around 94 TT and 54 PIC. My priority will be the TT for CPL start. Just wondering should I do MEP rating while Stateside? Would this save a few hundred Euro later on during MEIR? Or is it all the same whether you do MEIR together? Since I have to build up to 200 hours by CPL test anyways might it be good idea as it would be cheaper out there and spread the learning a little more?

Any advice on sequence of training would be much appreciated!

Mikehotel152
1st Jan 2014, 08:55
A few years ago when I was at the same stage of my training I considered paying extra for twin time, but it is completely pointless unless you are planning on doing Flying Instruction, Air Taxi or similar work. Airline recruiters won't care - except with passing interest as a topic of conversation.

The key things with hour building is (a) do it economically, (b) have a helluva lot of fun buying bacon butties at far-flung aerodromes, and (c) incorporate a little bit of training, such VOR tracking, Flight plan trips into foreign countries etc.

At no other time in your life will you be 'forced' to fly 100 hours in a relatively short space of time. Right now you might be thinking mainly in terms of getting the hour-building done so that you can start the commercial licence, but in the future you'll look back on it as a wonderful opportunity to fly expensive aeroplanes for fun!

funkydreadlocks
1st Jan 2014, 10:34
Requirement to start CPL training is 150h.

However, keep in mind that CPL training is around 37-45 hours of flying, whilst the requirements to undertake the exam is a minimum of 200h.

You need 250h to get a frozen ATPL. That's once you've done alll the necessary training (which does not need, but is highly recommended to have JOC).

I recommend doing the ATPL first if you're doing it here in Europe (EASA). It's what I'm doing. I miss the crap out of flying, but that way I concentrate on my ATPL exams. Remember that here it's 14 exams, not 2, like in the US. Also, that way when I get back to flying, it'll 100% of the time flying and no huge delays between flight sessions. This will keep me fresh and up to date. I recommend you do the same.

I'm told the ATPL theory is the hardest part of flight training, and I'm hoping that the peron who told me this (airline pilot) is right, because it's very tiring to do that AND a university degree at the same time.

If you do ATPL theory exams, YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO CPL THEORY. ATPL covers all the material and beyond. CPL in EU is 9 exams if I'm not mistaken (1 in the US).

Before you think about doing your ATP in the US and then converting, part of the conversion is taking those 14 exams, so it would be a waste of time and money.

I hear many people arguing about whether you should do your hour building in the US or not. I can't really contribute to that debate to be honest.

There's one thing I cans ay however. Wherever you do your hour building, MAKE IT COUNT.

That means, don't spend 90 hours doing cross countries with friends on board and pottering around in the local area. Get an instructor to fly with you every X number of hours. Have him correct you to a CPL standard. Make him give you exercises and skills to practice when you're flying alone. And try to visit as many different airspace and airfields/airports as possible.

One thing I started doing after I got my PPL was begin a Flying Diary. After every flight I would write an entry about what happened in the flights, what mistakes I made and how I think I could have avoided making them. I would also add bullet points for things I believed I needed to work on for next flight, and which problems I had successfully eliminated that I had outlined in previously entries. It had become part of my postflight routine after filling out all the logbooks.
I plan on doing this once more when I get back to flying.

There's a book, "Commercial Pilot's License", by Anneli Christian-Phillips, which gives a bunch of useful information to know about the CPL and how to be best prepared for it.

Summary (tl;dr):

if you want to go into airlines or do ATPL at all, skip CPL theory, go to straight to that
You need 150h to qualify for CPL training, but 200h to qualify for the examination
Best to do all the theory first, then fly. More efficient and better for learning retention
When you do hour build, make it count for something by learning as you gain experience.
PPL is a license to learn

pilotchute
1st Jan 2014, 16:25
Night hour building.

Im planning on being in the USA around August to do some night flying. What would be the best area to do it in? I know that time of year the weather in the USA can be a bit unpredictable?

East Coast preferably but Midwest may be an option. Any suggestions appreciated.

OhNoCB
1st Jan 2014, 20:40
funkydreadlocks, I just want to correct a couple of things (unless they have changed fairly recently).

CPL training is not 37-45 hours training, it is a 25 hours minimum reducing to 15 if you already hold an IR. It may be true that not everyone does it in minimum time but I personally haven't heard of many (any if I'm honest) going up close to 40.

If you were saying this to include the IR, then it is perhaps closer to that depending on the sim/flying time split.

Also 250h is NOT a required for an "fATPL" primarily for the reason that there can be no requirements for it as it technically doesn't exist. It is merely a term commonly used to refer to having a CPL, MEIR, MCC and ATPL Theory completed. This can be done with a minimum of I believe 200h + CPL test time.

Mikehotel152
2nd Jan 2014, 07:34
... keep in mind that CPL training is around 37-45 hours of flying, whilst the requirements to undertake the exam is a minimum of 200h.

I don't think this is correct. You simply need the minimum 70 PIC time and total time of 150 to take the CPL test. The 200 hour figure is the minimum for CPL 'issue'. Most people do the MEP and IR and then apply for CPL issue at the end of the training.

As funkydreadlocks says, don't waste AVGAS burning holes in the skies, but I don't agree that you should make sure every flight counts in a 'training' sense. Have FUN! Take your family and friends for flights.

But like all things, a balance between fun and purpose is important. The CPL is not difficult and if you've done a bit of beacon bashing during your hour-building you'll be fine. The IR is the hard part because of the multi-tasking and your hour-building won't be of much help with that, but if you bear that your ultimate aim is to be a commercial pilot, so use your time wisely.

DeanKline
2nd Jan 2014, 08:55
thanks alot for the advice everyone. much appreciated!:ok:

So, building multi time in the states may be useful from a training/experience standpoint, but not so cost effective when the goal is primarily to build hours (and have fun, of course). thanks for that tip, however, i may still do some time in a twin while im out there,just to get a feel for it, and may even get my Multi rating while im there (still cheaper than UK!) - isnt the multi rating accomplished with only a handful of hours with an instructor?

With regards to the ATPL (UK) - if i was to do the theory in the UK, exams and all, and then do the rest of my training ( IR, CPL, MCC) in the US, how does the license conversion work? by that my mean ATPL UK > ATP US, with the intention of utilising these licenses stateside.

While on the topic of ATPL theory, has anyone done this ( ideally the 'distance learning' method) and could shed some light on the level of complexity, and what you did to remain focused through the study and exams, while working?

SloppyJoe
2nd Jan 2014, 12:17
Do you have or can you get the legal right to work in the US? If you can forget about the EASA stuff for now just concentrate on getting the FAA CPL/IR Multi. You would have to be very lucky to get a job in an airline in Europe with a fresh FATPL and even luckier to get a job flying a light aircraft if you don't get straight into an airline.

If you can legally work in the US you would be unlucky to not be able to find a paid, albeit low pay, job in a light aircraft. Thats if your willing to go anywhere in the states to work. The opposite is true in Europe. Once you have your FAA CPL/IR and have found a job start studying for the EASA ATPL ground exams, unfortunately your FAA knowledge will do little to help you with these exams. You can build time whilst studying and bit by bit convert the rest when you are able, CPL, IR etc, if you decide you really want to work in Europe.

In the states I could almost guarantee that with motivation and drive you would have some jet or turboprop time within 3-5 years. In Europe I could almost guarantee you will not have found a job within 3-5 years.

If you find the right school with nice weather you could be qualified within 6 months and looking for that 1st job.

If you can't work in the states, good luck.

LAI
2nd Jan 2014, 12:27
Firstly, multi time during hour building: By all means, do some if you want - it's great fun! However, I would say don't die in a ditch over getting it in. You will find that it probably doesn't make a huge amount of difference in how many hours you take by the time you have finished.

One of the guys I went through the CPL/IR with had done his MEP rating in the States and I think it took 4 or 5 hours off the minimum requirement for licence issue, but not sure if he actually found it an advantage (I remember him saying afterwards that he would rather have done the additional ME hours during the CPL course, so he would have been more current/comfortable come the test - currency is everything!).

I would also suggest that you go out and use the hour building to try new things, as well as improving your skills. If you can, do some IF, aerobatics etc. It will make you a much better pilot overall (and help you get through the courses a bit more easily IMHO). I did an IMC rating, AOPA Aerobatics course and a formation flying course during mine and it was bloody good fun! As Mikehotel152 says, enjoy yourself! It will be the only time in your life that you have to go and do a load of flying - and what you do is almost entirely up to you!

It is not difficult to practise the CPL skills while also going to fun places with your mates - all you need to do is practise the skills you will need while doing it (and should have already learnt on your PPL anyway!): Plan on a chart, not SkyDemon etc., don't just follow the GPS, hold yourself to good standards of accuracy in your nav and don't just get lazy. If you can, as already suggested, do the occasional trip with an instructor to make sure you aren't picking up any bad habits. Simple! :ok: Just remember, the hour building is designed to give you the experience and skill level necessary to complete the CPL. Too many people see it a just a number that has to be achieved, regardless of what they do. Trust me, you can tell the difference between a pilot who has just burnt holes in the sky for 150 hours and one who has done something useful with their time...

Don't forget though, that you need 100 hours PIC as well as just 150 total...

A final suggestion would be to save some of your flying for the UK. Having come across a lot of US-trained students while instructing (and having discussed with many instructors who teach at all levels), it is obvious that flying in US airspace doesn't fully prepare you for flying in the crowded UK, with its different procedures and ATC etc. Well worth doing a proportion back here (probably the last remaining flying before you start the CPL).

With regard to the ATPL theory, the previous comment about concentrating on that before the majority of the flying is a good one. I would suggest that most of it is not hugely complex, but it is the sheer volume of material to wade through that makes it "difficult"! What I used to do was "schedule" myself that I could only go flying once every x hours of studying/y progress tests completed etc. It didn't always work(!) but did help to keep things moving most of the time!

Good luck and enjoy yourself!

DeanKline
2nd Jan 2014, 13:53
thanks Gents, some really useful stuff here! :ok:

Do you have or can you get the legal right to work in the US? If you can forget about the EASA stuff for now just concentrate on getting the FAA CPL/IR Multi.
Yes, i have dual-nationality and hold passports for both countries, so I CAN work in the States. I am, by no means adamant on staying in the Uk ( truth is, I cant wait to get out :yuk: );) . In fact, i'd enjoy living anywhere that would allow me to fly - quite fancy seeing new places/people, but the States is where i will likely head back to, in the not-too-distant, for training and carrer prospects..

my initial plan was to continue working in the UK, accumulate a lump of savings, and then change £ to $ to take advantage of the exchange rate(more moneys = more flying time) and get some good time in!!
Would it be an idea to complete the EASA ATPL exams whilst still working in the UK (and saving for CPL/IR), or would you recommend i head Stateside, get on with the CPL & ME IR, finding some sort of low-pay job to build hours, whist studying the FAA ATP? Again, i have no real reason to return to the UK/EU (other than to visit my dear mother) , so is there any point in doing the EASA ATPL? seems a bit more comprehensive than the FAA syllabus!?
I dont suppose one could do the FAA ATP whilst in the UK either? just a thought.

thanks for the advice LAI - some good shouts there, particularly like the formation flying course idea :D !
i'll take note of these points youve made. I've got family all over the US, so that might just be reason enough to get some cross-country flying in and concentrate on Nav excercises, planning, VOR tracking, as well as visiting as many aerodomes as possible.

Man, just talking about it puts a smile on my face.. :O

One question to add - what sort of jobs could one expect in a light aircraft? are you talking sydiving pilot, day trips, and the sort, or actual transport jobs? charter maybe?

SloppyJoe
2nd Jan 2014, 14:43
You do not need to study for the FAA ATP. It is not like the EASA FATPL. You can get an FAA ATP once you have 1500hrs. The written test is easy. If I were you and after hearing what you have said do not do anything with EASA.

Save your money or if you have enough just go to the states and enroll in a course. There is no integrated system there, you do a PPL, build some time, do an IR, build some time, do the CPL then add a multi IR to it. It is a far simpler system and if you have no plan to work in Europe the license is just as recognized elsewhere in the world as an EASA one.

If you do not have a degree instead of worrying about EASA exams look for an online degree course you would like to do as this can hold you back in the US if you don't have one.

The cost of training to the same level in the US will cost you less than 50% of here in Europe.

Do not get an EASA license, not even a PPL, it is a waste of money. There are far better opportunities in the US, especially at the moment. 1st step find a school to do a PPL at. 40 hours and takes a few weeks at the right school, whilst doing that you will learn far more about this industry and what you need to do. One step at a time and that is the first step.

DeanKline
3rd Jan 2014, 08:21
thats an extremely helpful post - Thanks SloppyJoe.

Looks like im heading back home sooner than i thought ! :ok:

Would I need to also do the JOC course and MCC over there, or is that yet another EASA add on?

also, i dont suppose anyone has done any flying in Albuquerque? I have found 2 schools there ( Del Sol, and Bode Aviation) and wonder if anyone knows about the standard of training there?
I do also have family in Texas, where i could train, if anyone knows of some good schools out that way!

appreciate the tips!

Lakhan
3rd Jan 2014, 10:47
It's now 200 tt to "take" the cpl skills test. Not issue anymore. Something I have to think about now regarding which way to do cpl ir. Probably Ir first.

weedman1990
7th Jan 2014, 16:52
I recommend doing the ATPL first if you're doing it here in Europe (EASA). It's what I'm doing. I miss the crap out of flying, but that way I concentrate on my ATPL exams. Remember that here it's 14 exams, not 2, like in the US. Also, that way when I get back to flying, it'll 100% of the time flying and no huge delays between flight sessions. This will keep me fresh and up to date. I recommend you do the same.


@Funnydreadlocks That's exactly what I am doing. I finished my ATPL's almost not flying for a year until now. I just need around 5 - 6 hours to get back up to speed before I head off to Phoenix to do my hour building. That way I can fly full time wherever I decide to do my CPL/ME/IR.

@ Lakhan I will most probably do my IR first too. Reason being, I think it will give me more flexibility on the weather when flying the aircraft.

SloppyJoe
9th Jan 2014, 13:16
Would I need to also do the JOC course and MCC over there, or is that yet another EASA add on?

That is an EASA thing. In the states it is more of a gradual building up to it. Guys in Europe can end up in the right seat of a 737/320 fresh out of flight school so it does make sense. Don't read that as likely to end up there, most do not.

In the states your first job would more than likely be in a single engine piston requiring no additional training other than with the operator. If its over 200hp you need to do a short, couple of hours, training with ground school to be qualified to fly a high performance aircraft.

If it is pressurized a similar course.

You would, after those two short courses be qualified to fly almost anything up to 12,500lbs with piston or turboprop engines.

After that it is a type rating for a specific type.

Most in the US start either instructing or skydive flying or similar light piston job for a year or two. Then cargo or pax (right seat or left depending on experience) in a bigger piston twin or turboprop. Then right seat in bizjet or regional. Then a larger airline.

It is a path you can expect to follow if you are driven and have the aptitude.

In Europe its a lucky few that get into an airline straight away, a few other lucky ones get a job in a prop plane. Most do not end up working, try to stay current for a few years then give up. This is the reality of the situation in the EU, you may be lucky so its a gamble you have to decide weather or not to take.

Exiled Martian
9th Jan 2014, 15:37
Greetings Male, Female & Inbetweeners,

Lurker in need of some hour building tips here......so on that note please bless me with some gems! To summarise (after much ardous back & forth with the CAA/FAA over 3-4 months mind you!) I finally walked into my home two night ago after work to find the golden ticket (FAA authorisation letter) waiting for me on the dinnertable. Having given up hope after meaningless exchanges with the relevant orgnaisations, I have finally got the green light to go do some HB out in Florida:ok:

Abit of background info avid PPL'er / Aviator enthusiast from the midlands who is currently on a modular (No Mom & Dad bank account) path to the skies. I have a night rating to my name & will have 70 hours (P1) soon (5 hour shy of this feat). Since the weather is proving rather hit & miss I'm just looking to amass the remainder ( 30) out there after which I'll be coming back to do the rest (CPL/IR/MCC etc etc etc). I've already spoken to an outfit & made aircraft hire arrangements (Air America @ DAB).

Leaving 17th Jan 2014
Returning 2nd Feb 2014


My question to the more knowledgeable /experienced/ been there done that PPRUNE folks are:


What do I need to REALLY know/ Be AWARE off flying out there (will be flying form Daytona as thats where my FBO is based)???
Can I get those 30 hours within a 13 day period i.e is that a feasible goal to hold onto?
Equipment wise i.e charts/maps/ guides etc do I need to purchase these over here or can I just get them over there?
Overall any hints/tips/cheats would be much appreciated fellas e.g places to fly/tourist hotspots to visit (time permitting ofcourse)?
Any resourceful online links in relation to flying Stateside?
Thanking contributors in advance.

Right I'm off to go salvage a Gopro & renew that Skydemon subscription:ok:

Marchisio
9th Jan 2014, 22:57
I did 50 hours in 10 days with Air America in Daytona Beach 2 months ago. Nice place, nice planes, nice prices with some relaxed guys to take care of you :-)

Before you go I would study the airspaces and rules and what else is relevant to conduct a flight in the US. Daytona Beach can be quite busy at times so make sure you know the most important differences on the radio phraseology.
When your going to fly on your own just pick up VFR flight following and all the nice controllers will help you out no matter where you go. Flying in US is fantastic and in Florida in particular they are used to foreigners flying around.

Skyvector.com and aviationweather.gov is great websites to get weather and all the information you need for your flights.

When you get to Daytona go to the Daytona Pilot Zone shop and you can buy everything you will need to a good price.

Regarding your 13 day limit I think it should be enough. But when I was there the weather was pretty bad - mostly IFR weather so I was only able to do my hours that fast because I had my FAA IR.

There are plenty of great places to go in Florida. All the big airports are always good fun and of course Key West + all the coast airport like Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Boca Raton, West Palm Beach is also really nice places to land and get a crew car :)

Exiled Martian
10th Jan 2014, 10:05
50 houirs in 10 days??? :ooh: Nice work mate...logbook well fattened I see!

Firstly many thanks for taking time out to give me alot of insightful information regarding hourbuilding out in FL (KDAB) & also for those resourceful website links.

Unfortunately I've suffered a drastic setback in form of some major car trouble last night (Lady Luck is not a fan I guess:mad:) on the way back from work & apparently THE POWER of my wallet is the only one true remedy.

Sigh... first world problems eyyyy:ugh: So yes after a new engine I will look to reattempt Project Florida hopefully back end of Feb/early March (24th Feb -7th March instead) from the looks of things fiscally speaking.

By then I should also have hit 70Hr P1 & have done my ME rating, so I seek solace in knowing that I'll be certified to have two props at my disposal for when I go out there.

Again gratitude for the advice bestowed.....I will be sure to revert back to your post when the time is near, already made a note of those destinations you mentioned bud :ok:

DeanKline
10th Jan 2014, 15:49
@SloppyJoe - thanks for the consistency and quality of your posts. Really helpful !


I have since been in contact with the two flying school in ABQ and have been given the below costs. (I'm hoping we are allowed to discuss costs on here :})

DelSol-
Private Pilot - $7,000
Instrument Rating - $6,000
Commercial Pilot with time building - $30,000

Bode-
Private - $8000.00 to $10,000.00
instrument rating -$10,000 to $15,000 (due to the required cross-country PIC requirement)
commercial pilot license -$10,000 to $15,000

Athough they arent too farflung and amount to similar total cost, it seems to me that a considerable amount could be saved by, say, doing PPL & IR at DelSol, and CPL and Bode.!

Can anyone comment on the above prices, and would the above suggestion of utlising both schools to minimise total investment be a wise one???

Straighten Up
11th Jan 2014, 13:57
Exiled Martian,

If you haven't already I recommend posting in the North America forum about good airfields nearby. I'm off to Long beach in March, posted a request in there and got dozens of suggestions from locals.

Enjoy!

LPVL
16th Jan 2014, 16:25
Guys,

I'll be in Miami next March.
Hour building nearby which one do you recommend most?
ATA, FlyMiami?

Thanks in advance.

LPVL
20th Jan 2014, 17:09
Can you please provide some advise on below request?:confused:

BBK
30th Jan 2014, 16:53
Sorry if this is a bit off thread but can anyone recommend a club/school for a bit of recreational flying in the Orlando area. Maybe a taildragger?

Straighten Up
11th Feb 2014, 12:40
Just to refresh this thread - anyone heading to California in March? It would be nice to meet up with some fellow hour builders.

LPVL
11th Feb 2014, 12:56
I'm heading to Miami, FL in March.
No idea yet about schools I will contact... Any help?

malc4d
15th Feb 2014, 12:36
bbk you could try Traxair at ORL or if nearer Crosswind at SFB. A guy in Spruce creek does tailwheel training. I take it that as your are flight crew you have an FAA license. (needed for solo rental)

dera
17th Feb 2014, 07:37
Exiled Martian, I'm going to KDAB 24Feb-> as well. I did my PPL there last summer, if you need any suggestions/company while building hours let me know.

BBK
22nd Feb 2014, 08:15
Malc4d

Thanks for the info. Will look these up.

weedman1990
13th Mar 2014, 21:58
Hi Guys,

Its been a few weeks since I been back from the USA, and for me it was the best decision I ever made. I did 85 hours at Chandler Air Services with perfect weather every single day. I even managed to do around 50 hours in 1 week!! The view too where amazing in some parts of Arizona making it a once in a lifetime unforgettable experience.

The guys at Chandler Air Service helped me out a lot too whenever I need some advice on anything, aircraft where well maintained too and they even gave more attention to the hour building aircraft before I was going cross country so that it was safe to use.

Overall experience was great, would definitely recommend them. Now for the next bit, the CPL/ME/IR!

Thanks

P.S. If anybody wants any information about Chandler Air Service I would be very happy to help.

Amateur Hour
15th Mar 2014, 04:59
Sounds cool. Thinking of doing this myself, I'm at about 43 hours and once I get my PPL I was thinking of heading to the USA (I live in Sydney, Australia) as the cost is just so much more reasonable.

Are you able to provide a breakdown of costs, as in how much did you spend all up including accommodation and so forth?

weedman1990
16th Mar 2014, 00:05
All I'm going to say is go for it mate, you'll love it there just like I did!

As for the prices, i paid around $8900 for the flying including all the ground school and flying with the instructors. I stayed at the Doubletree Hilton Hotel which i got for a cheap price through Chandler Air Service, but they do provide you with accommodation is well which is around $800 a month so it aint bad.

In total i think it cost me around £9000 - £10000 which is pretty decent for me considering i stayed at Hilton and food and all my hours and that was including fuel at places I visited, but Chandler Air Service reimburse the account so make sure you take your receipts with you after you refuel.

It will be a lot cheaper for you if you stay at the accommodation that Chandler Air Service provide you with though.

I was there for around 28 days. The very next day after i arrived there i went straight to the FSDO office to get my Temp license in order not to waste time and the next 3 days after that i did the ground school and the instructor flying for the checkout and mountain training. The first few days will fly by but when your there doing your hours, it will feel like a long time which is what i found. I averaged at-least 4 - 5 hours a day and some days i used to do 6.30 hours from flying long distance's.

Hope this helps

Straighten Up
16th Mar 2014, 02:24
I'm one week into my 4 week hour building session here in California. The weather so far has been fantastic, and even when it's been dubious off to one direction, there's always somewhere else to go in the other direction. I was originally booked to fly with Long Beach Flying Club, but when I got there they didn't have any availability for 2 weeks. Instead I'm flying with Pacific Air, from the same airfield who have been great.

They have a good selection of well maintained aircraft (I think it's 4 C172, 2 with G1000 - which I had a go on yesterday) and a C152. The owners and instructors are very friendly, and the amazing options of airfields to go to is superb - today I flew into the Mojave Space Port, landing on a 4000m runway, which was an unforgettable experience. Highly recommended and the prices are so much cheaper than the UK even with flights/accom taken into account - I'll post an update when I leave with the totals that I spent for the hours.

Straighten Up
7th Apr 2014, 18:38
So - all done in the US. 30 days, 63 logged hours, and 87 flights in total.

I used Pacific Air Flight School at Long Beach airport who were great.

My cost breakdown was as follows (all in £)

Flights £553.23
Accommodation £1,174.85
Carhire & gas £271.46
Flying £4,484.73 64 hours £70.07

TOTAL £6,484.27 64 hours £101.32

So including flights/accom/car it was about 30% cheaper than the UK (assuming £140 for C172). Just on the flying it was half the price, and the experience was fantastic.

Hope these figures may be hopeful to someone.

Live your dream
13th May 2014, 11:24
Hi there,

I would like to go to the USA in July, everything is really much cheaper than here in Spain.

I would like to know which flight school you would recommend. I've heard good things about Florida-flyers, but I think they are more expensive than other flight schools nearby, for instance Dean International.

I have heard that I should go to the West coast, San Diego, the area over there is much better, but I don't know any flight school there.

Looking forward to hearing from you chaps. :ok:

desarba
13th May 2014, 22:16
Hi live, how long are you planning to stay in USA? I want to go to fly many hours. We could plan to go together. I'm a FAA license and I know many schools in L.A.

Let me know ok?

Live your dream
19th May 2014, 19:20
Give more info about your plans.

cumbrianboy
19th May 2014, 19:57
Chandler Air Services in Chandler, Pheonix. Had a blast when I went, really interesting flying and very good rates on the aircraft.

clkorm3
25th May 2014, 08:30
Hi,

I am looking for a school in US to build around 50 hours. I need to build my hours quickly so I can complete my training. I would like to know following:
1: administration process .i.e. Validation, , medical, any thing that I have to consider before my arrival,
2: Cost of living
3; recommended school with good availability and good aircrafts.


Thanks a million in advance.

RNWill
4th Jul 2014, 10:20
Hi Everyone,

I'm currently in the process of planning my hour building trip to the States in October for just under 3 weeks.

I'm just curious to see if there are any other budding pilots, who are considering going out the same time as myself to Florida.

I'm going out on my own currently, so I can build my P1 hours up. Would be good though to tour Florida with someone else.

desarba
4th Jul 2014, 19:12
I'm planning to fly in California after October 15, around 50hours in multi. If you think that can work we can fly together, or I can change my me hours for se. It's up to you!

Let me know

shinigami
4th Jul 2014, 20:50
I'll be doing some time building in Florida in september and commercial training at sunstate aviation. If your plan was september we could have done it sunstate, by the way i'll do 80hrs of time building.

CL215
5th Aug 2014, 14:37
Im going in October, if someone wants to do a shared time, I will be over there. Im already thinking where to go at: Arizona, florida or California, taking into a count transportation costs from airport to that place, and also WET flight rental/ accommodation costs in each different place...

Did someone recently come from USA? Do you have some advice? Schools, places to live at...

Has someone planned to go around october?


Best regards

desarba
5th Aug 2014, 20:35
I was planning to go in cotoner, i was living in LA.I Can give you info from where in was flying, Also i Can offer where to Stay.

zondaracer
6th Aug 2014, 07:07
Im going in October, if someone wants to do a shared time, I will be over there.

How does someone share time?

CL215
6th Aug 2014, 11:43
The people share time in USA, as pilot and copilot write down in the logbook PIC hours, since the pilot is piloting, and the copilot is a safety pilot, so both of them can write down the whole time as PIC. So you can pay half time, and write down the whole flight time.

Dont you know it?

Most of the people who do hour building in USA do that.

flyhiguy28
10th Aug 2014, 18:59
Hi Everyone,

I did my hours building in the US back in September 2012. I flew with 'Pilots Paradise' who are an unbelievably amazing outfit, I can not recommend them highly enough.

On arrival I got my FAA licence issued (a paperwork exercise) and had a check flight with Stephen Fisher who owns the aircraft. Stephen has over 20,000 hours experience most of which is instruction so he knows a thing or two about flying! He's also British. After about 45 minutes I was signed off and handed the keys to the aircraft. It was MY aircraft for the next 2 weeks to do with as I pleased! :)

And it gets better... my accommodation was literally 5 steps from the hangar! Pilots Paradise is based at Indian River Aerodrome (near Vero Beach), an aviation community. There are huge houses and everyone owns an aircraft. The grass runway runs through the centre of the community.

The following morning I opened the hangar doors, pulled the aircraft out and jumped in the PA28 - which is pristine and well maintained. What followed was 2 weeks of some of the best flying I have ever done. In a nutshell, I flew up the East coast of America, from Florida up to Canada and back. Highlights included landing at La Guardia, New York; flying over Niagra Falls and flying Low Level over Miami Beach! In total I flew 40 hours.

If anyone is interested in doing the same then I am more than happy to tell you about my experience and help you get a FAA licence etc. 2 years later and I'm still raving on about my amazing trip with Pilots Paradise! :ok:

Yours Aye,


Kris

desarba
10th Aug 2014, 19:07
I have flown a wet Cessna 150 in Cali for 80$ and if the house is not full, you have house for 600$ month.And if you want a b1900 for 200$!and 75$ instructor you can fly as a pic. With the owner of course

All from the same owner!



Thanks

CL215
12th Aug 2014, 08:37
I am looking for a school to build sme hours in Florida this November.

I have seen several school, and this is one of my "favorite" (always talking just by searching internet)

can someone help me telling me some feedbacks about it?

I have seen also another school called Air America Flight center...

Some of you have been flying with them, or do you know someone who was?

Both have good rental prices, but I want to talked to someone who has been flying with them recenly...

I need fedbacks tobe confident about some school.. I have asked, and talked to several schools around florida, and I am already colapsed...

Also, if you have been flying in other school with good rates, please tell me where, I need some help to decided wich school to fly with..

Thank you in advance

jetjockey696
12th Aug 2014, 09:36
you can ARI ben aviator.. Flight Training - Multi Engine Time Building Programs - Aviator Flight Training College (http://aviator.edu/home/flight-training-programs/multi-engine-time-building-programs.aspx)

or

ATP flight school

ATP Flight School: Time Building Programs (http://www.atpflightschool.com/programs/time-building/index.html)

CL215
12th Aug 2014, 13:06
Please, Could you tell me more about where did you fly deserva??

Was it a school?

Wich airport was the airplane at?

those 80$ were with taxes and fees included?

CL215
12th Aug 2014, 14:06
Hello all.

I am looking for a time building in USA, and I have looooot of doubts about he famous shared time..

It sounds really useful talking about reducing costs..

How does it works? Must I have an IR rating? and the other pilot?

How they (the schools) can write those PIC hours down in BOTH logbooks?

It is so confuse...

Thank you in advance!

CL215
12th Aug 2014, 14:11
Crazy prices.

Im not gonna pay those quantities for a c150...

Im heading USA to save some money, not to spend much more than in my country.. haha

more feedbacks guys! I need help!

BigGrecian
12th Aug 2014, 15:16
It operates under FAR Part 91.109(b)(1)

It applies to FAA hours only and you must have an FAA IR.

It will not count towards EASA.

Some NAA's provide guidance on this :
Logging of Flight Hours gained in the USA
Some flight hour recording practices allowable in the USA do not comply with European
and UK requirements. In particular:
• 2 pilots flying together in a single pilot aircraft both claiming P1 hours;
• One pilot accompanying another on news gathering or traffic control flights and
claiming P1/PIC when they have not acted as Captain or signed for the aircraft.
Flying hours of this nature cannot be credited towards the requirements for Part-FCL

CL215
13th Aug 2014, 22:26
I can not believe no one would like to do a time building in USA....

I have preselect 3 schools:

1. FLORIDA FLYERS
2. DEAN INTERNATIONAL
3. CHANDLER AVIATION SERVICE.

My favourite is Florida Flyers, but if someone wants to go to other place , I could adapt.

I would like as soon as possible, maximum february...

MartinCh
13th Aug 2014, 23:39
big grecian, if they don't file IFR plan, fly in VMC only, why does the pilot under hood or the safety pilot acting as PIC, as per the 'safety pilot' regs, mauled ad nauseum all over internet, NEED Instrument Rating? :confused:

yeah, agree, some European newbies see the 50% OFF and go overly excited, without knowing the FAA specifics and limited usefulness for Europe.

I'll briefly say it again, CL215:
being safety pilot, ie watching for traffic/staying in VMC if applicable/responsible for safety, only counts for FAA flight experience if all the rules are followed. Safety pilot, if in IMC, needs to be instrument rated and current. If flying on instrument plan, there must be designated instrument rated current PIC. If you want 100% legal EASA/CASA etc PIC hours, you don't fly with another rated pilot and just fly solo.

You could in theory find pilot who only needs FAA loggable hours, doesn't mind sitting there while you do all the flying and you're happy to be under hood all the time in air from taking off to couple hundred feet high before landing. If you want to do some instrument approaches practice, it'd be prudent to have that safety pilot legal to be PIC on IFR plan, or stick to VFR/VMC only (which could be troublesome, mixing with IFR training flights in area trying to do the same as them).

Also, sticking to the rules, how much fun would it be flying S&L staring at instruments/gages doing some interesting great scenery cross-country flights?

Yeah, good to have value and new experience, but don't try to be too much of a cheapskate and risk issues back in Europe or build plans on meeting someone online and then something falls through and you or both get very upset for one reason or another.

If you were to fly under hood in ACTUAL/IMC, then you'd need to be legal to fly under IFR/IMC, ie rated, current, licensed, medical. Then the safety pilot strictly speaking wouldn't be manipulating controls nor 'required' to see and avoid traffic/terrain in IMC, so technically not loggable for him/her.

Without doing any promo for any school/company, I'm pasting AOPA link. Beware that US AOPA doesn't consider Europe or elsewhere, where there's meant to be only one PIC in single pilot aircraft. Being safety pilot, even if the European chap under hood 'signs for aircraft', means ACTING as PIC, ie legally required there and responsible for safety, which can be concluded as performing duties of PIC in Europe.

Logging Pilot-in-Command (PIC) Time - AOPA (http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Learn-to-Fly/Aviation-Subject-Report-Logging-Pilot-in-Command-PIC-Time.aspx)

Whatever you do, think it through, do proper research, check and ensure you have plenty paperwork to show for your flights if questioned/asked for evidence other than logbook entries.
If you team up with someone for more enjoyable travel and 'take turns' and spend double time in air, strictly having one designated for the flight, without any of the safety pilot stuff, it may work out. If it doesn't, personalities, finance and whatnot, do not be too surprised. Just a well-meant reminder.

axl76fg
15th Aug 2014, 01:21
I Was in Florida flyiers years ago....best one!!!

franco64
17th Aug 2014, 09:18
I found this on the net
https://engineering.purdue.edu/PPI/safetypilot.php

I am going back to US for time bulding and split time sounds good,I have a FAA PPL
Probably having already an IFR rating should help , not sure ;I am spending time on the web doing research on this topic.

CL215
19th Aug 2014, 15:45
I am preparing all paperwork to go to Florida an a question appears:

Someone knows if I need to get an english radioelephony proficiency before heading Florida?

Or it is automatically converted once they convert my JAA spanish license into an FAA license?

Thank you in advance!

shinigami
20th Aug 2014, 01:52
i have an interesting question. lets say you have to fly at least 4 hours everyday for 15-20 days. what kind of route would you choose? always stay in florida or have couple of long x-c?

MarkerInbound
20th Aug 2014, 02:54
CL215,


They will talk to you when you go the FSDO to receive your certificate. If you understand what they say and reply back, you can understand and speak English. And they'll have you read a paragraph of an airplane manual and explain it. And write a couple ATC clearances they give and read them back. Do all that and you are FAA English proficient.

faaandeasa
8th Sep 2014, 11:10
I am preparing all paperwork to go to Florida an a question appears:

Someone knows if I need to get an english radioelephony proficiency before heading Florida?

Or it is automatically converted once they convert my JAA spanish license into an FAA license?

Thank you in advance!

You don't need an RT license as it is included within your FAA License as long as you stay within USA. I would highly recommend Sunstate Aviation (http://www.sunstateaviation.com) at KISM. I did my CFI and CFII with them. New aircraft all 172 sp and most have G1000.

I-FLA
9th Sep 2014, 12:16
Hi all, I'm looking for some flight school or club in Bakersfield who rents a plane for some hour building. Anyone has had recent experience there?

MarkerInbound
9th Sep 2014, 15:16
You don't need an RT license as it is included within your FAA License as long as you stay within USA.


There's no FCC radio telephone license "included within" a FAA certificate. The FCC does not require a pilot to hold a RT license if they are flying in domestic airspace. There is the requirement to be "English Proficient" and the testing is done as part of issuing the certificate.

ATIS31
22nd Sep 2014, 21:39
Hi has anyone done any hour building at Europe-America Aviation at Naples ?
Was looking for a place that rent Diamond Aircraft in USA to do some hour building while over on holiday anyone got any reviews of reputable schools in Florida or California ?

Thanks

I-FLA
28th Sep 2014, 16:01
Hi all,
I've just found the Bakersfield flying club who has good rent rates with c172 and c150 both with garmin gps. Is there anyone who flew there or who has any feedback? There aren't enough information on this club as it was founded only in 2011

Gomrath
9th Oct 2014, 00:43
Nothing wrong with Bakersfield per se. It is in the middle of nowhere and so when you are not flying there is nothing to do.
Personally, I prefer to start from somewhere reasonably nice near the coast.
If you want somewhere small with no frills - take a look at Santa Paula.

I-FLA
10th Oct 2014, 22:30
Do you mean cp aviation for example?

BHenderson
12th Oct 2014, 11:29
Bakersfield airport is quiet, but doesn't suffer from thick Summer sea fog. Depends if you're planning to stay in Bakersfield or go touring.

I did my CPL/IR(H) there in 2008.

Ronaldsway Radar
12th Oct 2014, 23:05
Hi all

Heading out to Arizona to do some hours building in February.

Does anybody have any recent feedback regarding Chandler Air Service?

Anybody planning a similar trip around the same time? Not looking to share hours (as unable under part-FCL of course).

CL215
14th Oct 2014, 14:56
Hi again.

I have some doubts about the License Validation Authentification document...

I am filling it, but at point 7., I have a doubt...

At point 7. it says: License issued, (that is it, nothing more)

and at point 7a. it says license issued by (Country) so obviously I should fill it with my country.

So it makes me doubt about what to fill in 7. Should I keep it in blank?

I think it is just letting me know what is it going to asking me about... (Different information about License issues)

Could someone who filled it before successfully, or someone who knows what should I fill, help me?

Thank you in advance!

RunBoyRun
15th Oct 2014, 17:02
I think it is just letting me know what is it going to asking me about

That's right. :ok:

shinigami
24th Oct 2014, 02:00
I have finished flying in Deland Aviation with their cessna 152. It is a well maintained aircraft, ifr certified. I highly recommend them, although they have only one 152. On the other hand they have a maintenance hangar, that is why even if there is something wrong with it they can fix it in no time.

I had 90 hours in 2 weeks, kind of exhausting but it is done.

I-FLA
25th Oct 2014, 21:05
In Deland aviation's website there are also a cessna172 and Piper in the fleet page is it not for real?

shinigami
27th Oct 2014, 06:17
yes they have those too, i just meant they had only one cessna 152, other than that i belive they had at least 7-8 planes in their fleet. the only plane i needed for my time building was c152 that is why i did not mentioned the rest.

RedBullGaveMeWings
6th Nov 2014, 17:34
Does anyone have any information about NCB Aviation? Are they operative?
I tried sending them an email a few days ago but I haven't heard them yet.

Captain Bradley
9th Nov 2014, 08:54
Hi Guys,

I am planning a trip to US with a friend of mine next year. He is going there to do his PPL(A), I want to build hours. At the moment we are looking for a cheap flight school offering both - flight instructing and hour building, preferably in Cessna 150/152.

The school does not have to be located in California or Florida as I have heard that the prices are a little higher in popular states.

Do you know any place meeting our requirements?

Thanks!

gear up job
10th Nov 2014, 09:07
Rental Rates | Acepilot Training (http://www.acepilot.com/aircraft_rental_rates.html)

Gomrath
11th Nov 2014, 21:48
I am planning a trip to US with a friend of mine next year. He is going there to do his PPL(A), I want to build hours. At the moment we are looking for a cheap flight school offering both - flight instructing and hour building, preferably in Cessna 150/152.

The school does not have to be located in California or Florida as I have heard that the prices are a little higher in popular states.

Do you know any place meeting our requirements?

The two are mutually exclusive.
To train you need a M1 visa as a minimum and a school that can accommodate a foreign student.
Hour building you do not need such a school and could probably pay a lower rental fee at a regular Part 61 Flight School who do not have to worry about foreign students and hence potentially lower cost.

Mackesy
12th Nov 2014, 19:28
Hi there .
I am a ppl holder from ireland and I want to build 80hrs . Hoping to start around mid January 2015 . Can any one recommend a flight school that is well priced with a good reputation in Florida please

Mackesy
12th Nov 2014, 19:40
Hi gaz45.
Is the prices quoted from chandler air inc taxes ? I am looking Into hour building with them. Would like some advice please ?

Gomrath
13th Nov 2014, 20:33
Is the prices quoted from chandler air inc taxes ? I am looking Into hour building with them. Would like some advice please ?

Wow in 12 minutes you have gone from Florida to Arizona....

If you look on their website, it clearly states that tax is charged on the rental rate - so it will be added unless you are dual.
If you haven't started your Cert of Authentication then you had better do so if you are really thinking of January 2015 with the holidays coming up.

Scoobster
15th Nov 2014, 10:37
Hello,

I am looking for a recommended place to do my hours building in the U.S.A or Europe. The weather in the UK at the moment is not great so makes sense to spend around 3-4 weeks abroad for hours building. USA seems to work out competitive based on the exchange rate.

I am flexible with regards to the state (europe or usa) and ultimately prefer a small school with a personal touch rather than a "pilot factory".. Looking to build approximately 80 hours and then will build the rest of the 20 hours in the UK.

The school should have well maintained aircraft with good availability of the C152. This is what I learned on and is the cheapest! - I am not interested in the "safety pilot scheme".

I have emailed Chandler Aviation Services and they have come back with a quote of approximate $8000 for 80 hours with $1500 of taxes and checkouts = so round numbers of $9500 on a Cherokee 140 or PA28 (I believe).

What should I be asking the schools when I make enquiries?

I have thought of the following:

- Taxes,
- Landing Fees
- Fuel Surcharge
- Cost for touch & go's
- insurance waiver
- Accommodation.

Any schools which you can suggest would be welcome ideas? I will be converting my license to the FAA required for hours building.

FCDU
15th Nov 2014, 16:29
Surnrise aviation, florida

cavok_flyer
17th Nov 2014, 11:19
Leave the space after 7 empty. The first entry should be at 7a.

Don't forget to get a FCC licence if you want to use your FAA validation OUTSIDE the USA. Costs about 60USD. You do not need a FCC licence if you are only flying in the states. You can also apply when you are at home. Register on the FCC website; if you go there, you need the "other" licence. It will make sense when you look at the application. Or maybe not, it took me about three days to figure out exactly what I needed to do. It takes about 6 weeks to get the plastic licence in the mail from the FAA.

Scoobster
17th Nov 2014, 12:23
cavok_flyer,

who did you do your hours building with?

DeanKline
19th Nov 2014, 19:59
Evening Gents!

Picking back up on a few posts from this time last year (Man, time flies right!) relating to FAA PPL vs UK PPL and the recommendation to train & fly in the USA if possible.

As mentioned in previous posts, I do have US Citizenship and the ability to work and live in the US is not a problem. I am still living in the UK and do a bit of flying here and there (only about 11 hours on the logbook so far) but now I finally have A few tokens in the pocket, and i've decided its time to take the plunge and go forward with the Move stateside.. I've quit the job, selling up the belongings and move back to New Mexico in 2 weeks!

I'll also be Joining the Air National Guard as well as studying towards my Degree (since this is a prerequisite for US Airline Pilots), so that should hopefully be taken care of in a few years!

My question relates primarily to the syllabus of the FAA PPL material and how similar it is to the EASA books. I've got a few of the Trevor Thom books here that i've been reading through; is it worth continuing on with these, or will the RT, Air Law etc be so different that i would need to purchase additional books for the FAA PPL?

I wouldn't say reading the Pooley's books would do me any harm, but i would quite like to buy the FAA books soon so that I have something to get stuck into prior to the move and to read on the flight over etc (early bird gets the worm and all that)...


Any advice on the above from you guys would be great, and if you can recommend any good FAA books to purchase that'd be helpful too!

Much appreciated!

MartinCh
8th Dec 2014, 00:01
DK,
search ASA test prep on amazon.co.uk/com if you haven't come across it.
other books, well, plenty in pdf format off FAA website, plus recommend (second hand cheaper) commercial/instrument training manual (Jepp).

It's OK to get some of the ASA test prep few years dated (except maybe CFI stuff due to new questions) as not much changes there, 'as new' condition etc. You're probably away from this damn cold/crap weather place by now. Just FYI.

Airfrance777
9th Dec 2014, 13:03
Hi guys. Just a quick question:

Where to do time building (around 40 hours) and WHY????. Maintenance... facilities... money... instructors...

- Daytona aviation acamedy (Daytona)
- Air America flight center (Daytona)
- Sunrise aviation (Ormond beach)

I'm from Spain, and as everybody, i guess, i'm worried about the hours recognized by the EASA legislation. I want to do time building with a mate of mine, flying as safety pilot. Any experience with any of these schools in which they gave you a certificate of hours that was valid in europe??

Thank's a lot guys!!!!

shinigami
9th Dec 2014, 18:46
here is my opinion about air america in daytona. totally unprofessional.

I was going to do 100hrs of time building and we established on cessna 152 for 100hrs. After that i booked a place in daytona (not refundable) a month ago. When i checked with them 1 week prior, they said they already sold their 152 and i will not be able to do time building with that. They did not bother to let me know beforehand, maybe if i did not sent a mail 1 week prior i might have a huge problem.

Since i cannot refund the place i booked, i started searching somewhere close and found Deland Aviation. And luckly they offered me a better price on 152 and i finished 100hrs in 2 weeks. They have their own maintenance hangar so no worries there. Good instructors, good facility with a great simulator. I can definetly recommend that place. Bob is the owner, great guy.

FokkerGirl
17th Jan 2015, 14:09
Chandler Air Service is a good outfit but you want to go to Phoenix in the summer?? Last summer I saw temperatures reach 47C.

cefey
17th Jan 2015, 22:15
Do you mind to share your thoughts about visa issues etc? PM, if you don´t want to share it on public. Thank you so much!

Jwscud
18th Jan 2015, 11:56
5 years ago now, but friends have been there more recently and have had similarly good experiences.

Very high quality of instruction. If you have the money, do some aeros or tail wheel flying with them as they are second to none in that area.

No visa is required unless you plan on acquiring a full FAA license or new rating.

Lew747
18th Jan 2015, 14:36
What jwscud said (actually he gave me a lot of advice when I went out there 3 years ago). Thoroughly enjoyed but I did struggle with the heat. Up to around 45°c some days and it just got unbearable. Done some practice aero's in the Pitts which was awesome.

Booglebox
18th Jan 2015, 21:58
Going flying as early as possible (preflighting in the dark, taking off at dawn) may help with the heat :cool:

Ronaldsway Radar
20th Jan 2015, 12:19
I'm also heading out to CAS in April for a month.

Have heard some good feedback and the support from the team there so far has been excellent.

Would definitely advise getting the foreign licence verification process started if you haven't already. I commenced that in December and still haven't had confirmation. Can take up to 3 months as per the CAA and FAA websites.

Private_flyer
24th Jan 2015, 14:22
Was there in April/May 2014. Great experience! Flying is second to none and CAS are top notch. I'd go back in heart beat. In two weeks got to San Diego, Vegas (over the Dam too), Grand Canyon, Sedona and down to Tucson and the Mexican border. Chandler airport is super busy. Coming in one day I had landing traffic parallel to me on other runway to my left and heli doing circuits off a taxiway to my right. You have to be on the ball...

Apart from the flying Phoenix is amazing. Super organised, friendly and just nice place to hang out. Did a off road drive one day (Tortilla Flat) which was only a half hour drive from Chandler. Would love to have had an extra week to check out the night life.

You won't regret it...

Scoobster
24th Jan 2015, 15:35
PF,

What was the costing like for the amount of flying you did??

I had some quotes in the region of ,$8000 - $9000 for between 60-80 hours..

Private_flyer
24th Jan 2015, 15:55
I did 60 hours at $88 an hour = $5280 (minus 10% for having cash on account)
Car rental = $200 for 2 weeks
House rental from CAS = $350
Food = $400
Flights €700 return

Exchange rate has worsened since so will cost a bit more. I remember working it out at about €100 per hour for what I did. But personally I saw it as a holiday as much as any training that I did so you can reduce it for what you'd value flying across the Grand Canyon P1, which for me is a lot.

Great memories...

Scoobster
24th Jan 2015, 16:09
What aircraft were you on?

Private_flyer
24th Jan 2015, 16:23
Cherokee.. 40 years old and not a bother out of her...

2 Whites 2 Reds
24th Jan 2015, 22:10
Have a chat with Westwind Aviation at Deer Valley (just north of Sky Harbour). Having relatives in Phoenix, I chose to go out there for hour building with a mate and Westwind were nothing but professional, straight up, helpful with brilliant staff and especially rates on aircraft (we paid $99 per hour wet if I remember rightly) that were reliable and well maintained. Infact, they even made sure that any routine work was carried out overnight so that out flying programme wasn't affected. I took N54715, a C172 which is no spring chicken but served me very well. It was owned by one of the in house engineers so was extremely well looked after. My mate took another, much newer C172 out which was very up to date in terms of equipment.

Can't recommend Phoenix highly enough, especially Deer Valley. Those 4 weeks gave us very fond memories and in fact 6 years on both of us that went out there are now flying big Boeings but would give our right nut for another lads trip with a couple of 172's around the West Coast.

Good luck and enjoy!

PS just a few quick tips...

- Fly over to North Las Vegas and do a night out.

- Lake Havasu has cheap fuel and a nice town for lunch

- LAX VFR Corridor from San Diego up to Santa Barbara is amazing

- Just to the south west of Sky Harbour is some high ground. The other side of that high ground is heading towards Luke Airforce Base and you'll be talking to Luke Approach. Go and fly around for a bit just west of the high ground and you'll find a few F15's will come and play with you!

Sorry for rabbiting on but it's the best lads trip I've ever done.
Loads of flying, loads of beer and loads of fun!

BigGrecian
16th Feb 2015, 12:32
I want to do time building with a mate of mine, flying as safety pilot.

This has been done to death.

You cannot county any safety pilot or time with safety pilot towards EASA requirements.

gave you a certificate of hours that was valid in europe??

It wouldn't be recognised anyway.

Stop trying to get around the system!

Ronaldsway Radar
13th Apr 2015, 12:56
Well three days now until my hour building trip out to Chandler.

2 Whites 2 Reds your post was very motivational and I've decided to cover some of the same things in my trip. Sadly I've not managed to drag anyone else out with me so I'll be heading out solo!

However, looking forward to a month of flying and I will report back with any pertinent information.

RedBullGaveMeWings
13th Apr 2015, 18:41
I would look for rental options in Oregon or Illinois during summer. Canada might be an option too.

Reverserbucket
20th Apr 2015, 14:27
"Did a off road drive one day (Tortilla Flat) which was only a half hour drive from Chandler."


Jeepers - what were you driving !?! Half an hour?


Flying in the Phoenix area can be very good but no one here seems to have mentioned sheer density of traffic or heat stress (other than to say that heat doesn't usually bother you Pilot Lad and to start early in the day); the Phoenix training and transition areas are some of the busiest you will find anywhere in the world in terms of volume of traffic, with plenty of mixed types (they are F16's '2 whites 2 reds', and F-35's now, also flown by low houred pilots, albeit Airforce), lots of English as a second language over the airwaves (and that's not just the locals), and historically, a number of mid-air collisions (google for more details of recent accidents) between training aircraft; a particularly nasty one involving a Chandler based Cherokee not too long ago.


Heat (and it's getting hot now) is a big deal in Phoenix. Density altitude can become limiting but the biggest safety factor in my experience is tiredness: fatigue and dehydration - leading to distraction and reduced awareness in the cockpit with a resultant degradation in lookout. Keep hydrated with plenty of water, avoid downing copious amounts of beer every night and p a c e yourself but above all else - LOOKOUT and try to keep safe.

RedBullGaveMeWings
20th Apr 2015, 15:50
Yeah definitely I wouldn't go to Phoenix between April and October. I can't stand heat, not that kind of. Luckily there are some good options up in the North.

Private_flyer
20th Apr 2015, 19:46
@ReverseBucket: Didn't take long at all to get to. Obviously it was longer than half an hour but I'm just talking about the drive to where it got scenic.

It's exactly a year to the day I started flying in Chandler. What I'd do to go back...

The heat can be bad (even in April/May). I found once you got up the air it was fine. The hardest thing about the temperature was that it would be so quite cold at 10/11,000ft and 35/40 degrees on the ground. You'd have to wear a jumper starting out and leave the door hanging open on taxi to be in any way comfortable.

Rbucket is right about the traffic. There are countless training schools there (a lot of em foreign). Lufthansa even have their own private airfield. I saw everything from fighter jets to USAF 137s (I think) doing circuits. When doing transition over Sky Harbor you'd have commercials landing/taking off under you with A320s/B737s on the approach at same height.

Still, as cautious as you have to be, it was by far the best flying I've done to date. The ATC in the States is second to none.

Btw, Payson has a great cafe!

RunBoyRun
20th Apr 2015, 21:30
Forgive me for the OT, but would you like to share more details on what you call some good options up in the North ? :)

RedBullGaveMeWings
21st Apr 2015, 14:13
I don't remember the name of those places right now, but I suggest you give a look at sites like FlightSchoolDB or BestAviation, you may find schools in Oregon, Ohio, Minnesota and so on.
You do not need any visa for hour building, so you will have a lot of options to choose from. It doesn't have to be a flight school. An aircraft owner that rents his aircraft out is a good option too. If you can find one.

Gomrath
23rd Apr 2015, 23:07
I don't remember the name of those places right now, but I suggest you give a look at sites like FlightSchoolDB or BestAviation, you may find schools in Oregon, Ohio, Minnesota and so on.

Based on what factual knowledge?

RedBullGaveMeWings
3rd May 2015, 01:37
This is one of the places I was referring to:
Airplane Rental Duluth, MN Superior, WI - Superior Flying Services (http://www.superiorflying.com/rental-aircraft.html)

Cu Chulainn
15th May 2015, 10:11
Hey Guys, apologies for asking a question that has probably been answered already.I'm heading to the states during the summer to build hours in a helicopter and am having trouble getting concrete information. My two questions are.
How long does it take to change an EASA license to an FAA one?
Do I need a M1 visa for hour building? Due to insurance requirements at the place that I'm renting the R22, a CFI will be with me on all my flights. Does this affect the visa situation. I'm pretty sure if the CFI wasn't there I wouldn't need an M1 visa.
Cheers in advance for any information.

RedBullGaveMeWings
15th May 2015, 16:30
You don't need to convert your EASA licence to FAA. There's a procedure you have to go through that would allow you to obtain a temporary FAA licence which is based on your EASA licence.
You do not need any visa for hour building, if the immigration agents ask you what you are up to, just tell them that you coming for a vacation and a tour on your own in the States. Better not mention the verb "to fly" though.
A safety pilot doesn't imply you are enrolled in a course.

Cu Chulainn
16th May 2015, 11:09
Thanks for the reply, How long does it take to change your licence to an FAA temporary one? It says on the FAA website that getting one take 45-90 days!! Surely it doesn't take that long???

RedBullGaveMeWings
17th May 2015, 13:24
I have always known that this was the the time it usally takes on average... The FAA would have to deal with your local authority. If it is Swedish or British it may take less than 40 days, if it is Greek or Italian... well good luck.

Cu Chulainn
17th May 2015, 21:14
Ok, cheers for the info.

Gomrath
19th May 2015, 22:55
Better not mention the verb "to fly" though.

Never a good idea to suggest that information be withheld from the CBP officer at the port of entry.
If they decide to search your bags and find flight relating material they will likely take a very dim view.

Gomrath
19th May 2015, 23:00
Cu Chulainn

As part of the process for obtaining a FAA certificate based on your current EASA license, you will need to undertake a Flight Review to ensure that you are up to the standard required. There is also a related ground review so you should get the current FAR/AIM and study it.
Are you current on the R22? it seems odd that the place that you are renting from won't allow you to go solo.
Having a CFI with you will increase your $ costs quite substantially. You will also need to get it clear as to who is actually PIC. The CFI won't be wanting to be a passenger and not gaining any hours in his own logbook.

Cu Chulainn
20th May 2015, 10:02
Thanks for replying,
I agree with you re; the visa stuff. I'm determined to get everything above board, The US immigration take a very dim view of any chancers and obviously I want to avoid that. It's just that Hour building falls into a gray area, I'm not under taking a course of study, I'm not gaining any certificate from what I'll be doing either in the states or anywhere else.
A mate of mine did fixed wing hour building in Florida in 2013 and they made him show his logbook at immigration because they didn't believe him, but once he had shown them it they left him off. He went in on the visa waiver program.
I'm 100% sure that I'm PIC. I'm rated on the R44 but thinking of doing the Robinson safety course in the R22 as preparation for hour building. It's the cheapest hourly rate by some distance.

sleary
23rd May 2015, 16:13
You don't need a student VISA for hour building. I have done this many times (I have a FAA PPL based on EASA PPL). The BFR isnt training because it doesnt count as credit towards a certificate or qualification.

To avoid hassle at immigration I've refrained from saying I was there to hour build (which implies training) but instead said that I was there on vacation and that I intended to rent an aeroplane. Which I did. I went all over the north east on a grand tour with my family.

One final bit of advice. If you are in doubt get a lawyer to figure it out. If you get into trouble and then refer the judge to a bunch of unqualified people (in legal terms) talking crap online will not help you. If you got legal advice and it was bad you have comeback.

Gomrath
26th May 2015, 15:23
The only time a visa would be required for the Flight Review would be if the Instructor were to refuse to sign it off for whatever reason and further training were required to meet the US PTS standard.
If you are planning to do the Robinson Safety Course at the factory in Torrence, you need to get it booked as they fill up some months in advance. Current cost is around $450 for the course which includes 1 hour in the R22.

BYR
4th Jun 2015, 12:23
Does anyone know of a place where they allow you to rent a plane for several days and take it to another state?

dera
6th Jun 2015, 22:42
"The only time a visa would be required for the Flight Review would be if the Instructor were to refuse to sign it off for whatever reason and further training were required to meet the US PTS standard.
If you are planning to do the Robinson Safety Course at the factory in Torrence, you need to get it booked as they fill up some months in advance. Current cost is around $450 for the course which includes 1 hour in the R22."

Gomrath, are you 100% sure of this? BFR nor 61.57 are additional ratings/certificates, and training towards an acceptable Flight Review is not training towards a rating or certificate. Can you find any rulings/evidence to support your opinion?

SteamDials
14th Jun 2015, 07:31
Im thinking of buying my own light aircraft and leasing it out for hour building when I'm not using it to cover my costs.
I really like the DA40 but need to justify the cost!

A question for anyone who is looking to do some hour building in the future:
Would you rather rent an old 152 for $100 per hour, or a fully equipped glass DA40 for about $150?

captain.weird
14th Jun 2015, 11:08
C152 for $100, but that is just me.

Capt Loop
25th Jul 2015, 19:11
A visa is ONLY required on a FULL TIME training course doing over 18hrs of flying a week.

If you intention is to go to the USA to rent an aircraft and fly then you do NOT need a visa.

If you were not up to speed and needed more flying then as long as you dont exceed the 18 hrs then your good.

Trust me I do this all the time for 61.75 flight reviews.

selfin
26th Jul 2015, 02:28
dera,

Admission of nonimmigrants to the US under the B visa class (i.e. visitors, including those admitted under the visa waiver program) is conditional on the visit not being for the "purpose of study" [1] and a change of status is needed before a course of study can be started [2]. The US Department of Justice, in a memorandum to its regional directors issued in April 2002 [3], provides insight into its interpretation of "course of study":

"The term 'course of study' implies a focused program of classes, such as a full-time course load leading to a degree or, in the case of a vocational student, some type of certification. Casual, short-term classes that are not he primary purpose of the alien's presence in the United States, such as a single English language or crafts class, would not constitute a 'course of study.' Courses with more substance or that teach a potential vocation, such as flight training, would be considered part of a 'course of study' and thus would require approval of a student status."

In itself it is an unreasonable inference to state that a few hours' refresher flying constitute a "course of study." How does one distinguish between refresher training for its own sake, and training that is creditable toward a further qualification as for example in the case of a 61.75 (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?&node=se14.2.61_175) holder seeking a standalone US private pilot certificate? In fact this problem of dual purpose isn't limited to US certification because training could be received from an instructor qualified as such only under a foreign authority, leading to the instructed person acquiring a foreign qualification. Such training cannot lead directly to a US airman certificate [4], yet thousands of EASA PPL holders have been trained under these circumstances in the United States and it would be wrong to view their training as anything but "courses of study."

Under the most conservative view any training received from any person in the US for any qualification purpose can be deemed a "course of study." If you want a more civilised form of tyranny try Canada.

[1] Immigration and Nationality Act (http://www.uscis.gov/iframe/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/act.html) 101(a)(15)(B).

[2] 8 CFR 248.1(c) (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?node=se8.1.248_11).

[3] Memorandum for Regional Directors, et al. Office of the Executive Associate Commissioner, US DOJ. April 12th, 2002. Available at: http://www.eandvh.com/engine/pubs/getdoc.aspx?id=40&dl=1

[4] 14 CFR 61.41(a)(2) (http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?node=se14.2.61_141).

selfin
26th Jul 2015, 03:50
A visa is ONLY required on a FULL TIME training course doing over 18hrs of flying a week.

A visa to study is required when a "course of study" is being undertaken. See above memorandum and 8 CFR 248.1(c).

Your reference to 18 hours is a conditional requirement for a "full course of study" under a vocational curriculum (not provided by a high school), e.g. training requiring an M-class visa.

Full course of study. Successful completion of the course of study must lead to the attainment of a specific educational or vocational objective. A “full course of study” as required by section 101(a)(15)(M)(i) of the [Immigration and Nationality Act] means ... [s]tudy in a vocational ... curriculum ... certified ... to consist of at least eighteen clock hours of attendance a week if the dominant part of the course of study consists of classroom instruction, or at least twenty-two clock hours a week if the dominant part of the course of study consists of shop or laboratory work.

If you were not up to speed and needed more flying then as long as you dont exceed the 18 hrs then your good.

Flying is closer to shop/laboratory work than to classroom instruction so the lower bound for an M-visa should be 22 "clock hours" per week. You're a bit screwed if doing fewer hours than this since a "course of study" can't lawfully be pursued on a B visa (visitors / visa waiver program). I'm sure Uncle Sam is willing to turn a blind eye if the money flows fast enough.

MartinCh
16th Aug 2015, 19:39
Cu Chulainn
you better get the flight review signed in log and then 'company rental checkout' training flights signed and THEN nothing else mentioned (you put it as rental or something), else you're 100% gonna run into troubles with any EASA CAA claiming you were PIC because you paid rental rate and not training rate and company instructor was with you as 'safety pilot' collecting log hours.

To think otherwise, you'd be too naive. THe responsibility for safe conduct of flight and any emergency decision making, that'd NOT be you on flight with FAA CFI rated and legal company instructor. Google any interesting NTSB or FAA reports regarding any responsibility in incidents/accidents. One passenger CFI rated pilot did last minute save to prevent serious damage and 'manipulating controls' self-preservation bacon saving got him into trouble. Or the CFI rated friend of airplane owner in trouble for fuel starvation flight where he wasn't even legal to fly that time.

I trained and instructed in the US in the past and have been involved with EASA stuff, have kept track of various things, issues, considerations, legal stuff or practicalities.

In the eyes of FAA or IAA, UK CAA or whichever, instructor onboard that has dual controls installed (that'd be litmus test if whether the CFI is there for tips and ideas and solely for a nice view ride), is the acting PIC. End of story.

Trust737
22nd Oct 2015, 00:07
Hi guys I'm heading to Florida around January time waiting my verification letter at the moment,and so confused which place to go
1-pilots paradise
2-Florida Flyers
This schools at my top of the list at the moment any suggestions any other recommendations thanks in advance...

FlyingAcademy
2nd Nov 2015, 15:57
Dear @Trust737,

You're more than welcomed to visit us also. We have a fleet of C152, C172, C172SP G1000, PA28 in our base in Miami (KTMB).

Time building starts at $88/hr for a C152, the C172 starts at $107 and the C172SP G1000 starts at $140/hr, depending on the number of hours you would like to fly. Check our website and you might even get free accommodation. We don't apply any surcharges.

Let me know if you would be interested and would like to know more about Flying Academy Miami.

Thank you,
Radim Olbrecht
Head of Training

ricky81 sti
10th Dec 2015, 16:52
@Trust737

I went to florida flyers in 2011 and done about 60 hours, they were great to deal with, 150/152's were in good tidy condition and the PA28 I flew for a few trips was also in good nick.

Would love to go back for some flying in the sun this coming year, really enjoyed it.

I stayed in a motel in St.Augustine (Merida Inn & Suites). It was a clean comfy wee place and a very friendly and helpful owner.

amityes2002
23rd Jan 2016, 11:58
Any good flying schools for hour building in Seattle.??

BYR
31st Jan 2016, 10:27
Anyone with some info on NCB Aviation in Ohio? Their rates are very cheap approx. $68 wet incl. tax for a C150. What worries me though is that they ask for the full block of hours to be paid up front (you can split this in to two payments for a fee). I am looking to build almost 100 hours, which means I would have to pay about $3400 upfront, twice.

I am just debating with myself if that's worth the risk, or if I should look elsewhere.

Thank you!

MAN23R
31st Jan 2016, 17:37
Hey all!


I'm going to Chandler Air Service in November for 4 weeks, going to do 80-100 H/B...

amityes2002
4th Feb 2016, 10:34
Hello All,

I have decided to do my hours building in Florida. I was thinking to do in Seattle but changed my mind because of weather and schools .

I will go to Florida this April. Researched a lot and I think Florida is the best place to fly as weather is good there.

PM if anyone is planning to go there by that time.

My Plan is to hire PA28 from Florida flyers. I have heard good reviews about them.

Cheers:)

turbopropulsion
22nd Feb 2016, 02:27
BYR Anyone with some info on NCB Aviation in Ohio? Their rates are very cheap approx. $68 wet incl. tax for a C150. What worries me though is that they ask for the full block of hours to be paid up front (you can split this in to two payments for a fee). I am looking to build almost 100 hours, which means I would have to pay about $3400 upfront, twice.

I am just debating with myself if that's worth the risk, or if I should look elsewhere.

Thank you!

Be weary. Any FTO insisting on cash upfront for 'special discounted rates' reeks of cashflow problems. I mean, there isn't any way to determine whether you'd get stung or not so it's your call.

Personally I would pay as you go. Try negotiating for a cash price paid in full after every flight.

Good luck

gceyg
22nd Mar 2016, 11:55
Hi All!

I am in the process of getting my verification letter and looking to go out to the states in June!

I have been onto "Superior Flying Services" in Duluth, Wisconsin about renting there 152 and 172.
Rates are 152 (10hr block) - $77 an hour wet (Add 5.5% sales tax)
172 (10hr block) - $91 an hour wet (Add 5.5% sales tax)

I would love to get some reviews from someone who has flown up that end of the country and past experiences with the company whether it be renting from them or communicating with them

All feedback is welcomed and much appreciated! :)

FRALH
26th Mar 2016, 13:25
Hi all!

I´m planning my hours building (80-100 hrs in 4 weeks) in CA or AZ due to the weather and rent fee which are cheaper than FL.

I trained in a glass DA40 and have to choose between:

Chandler Air Service and rent a PA28-140 @92$ wet plus tax

American Flyers (KLGB) and fly the DA40 glass @109 dry.

I read good feedback for CAS but they are a little bit old, there are someone who recently made his/her hours there?
Personally I would go for the PA28 but I do not know,because I´ve never flown PA aircraft and there are familiarization and the check-ride

Thanks

Ronaldsway Radar
31st Mar 2016, 22:28
Further endorsement for CAS in Arizona.

I was there in April/May last year for a month, and had a great time. Great team, very helpful and know their stuff.

Among other trips, I managed a Grand Canyon overflight and a transit over LAX whilst a Korean A380 departed a few thousand feet below me. Something never to forget. I don't think the A380 crew enjoyed being asked to look out for a Cherokee at 9000ft but I certainly did!

For anybody choosing to hour build in California; be VERY hot on your R/T. Busy airspace, and lots of VFR. Have to be on the ball.

American2_Heavy
14th Apr 2016, 03:54
@Pilot lad
What schools did you time build with in CA & AZ? What places in FL did you look into that CA or AZ prices beat? What year was the DA42 you flew? Most of the international pilots I trained with either went to Deland Aviation in Deland, FL or Berichi Aviation in Pompano Beach, FL. Berichi Aviation has a 2016 c172 w/g1000 and autopilot @120/hr WET with tax included. For the multi-engine guys, they have a 2016 DA62 with all the options @345/hr WET with tax included. They buy and sell new airplanes every two years so they are the only ones with new aircrafts and they are dirt cheap. You have to schedule far in advance because they are always packed with students. Very cool instructors, they are all laid back. Only place that beats their prices (but has very old airplanes and also has a packed schedule) is Deland Aviation. They have a c150 @ 85/hr WET plus (100 hour block pricing, pay up front). They also have a few c172's (1976-1984) @ 105/hr WET plus tax (115/hr without block pricing). However, a pilot I flew with there from Spain had multiple in-flight failures. Their planes are very old and poorly maintained. The mechanic/owner 'Bob' and his son are the worst with customer service. They limit where you can fly and give you problems if your late. They don't care about the weather. The AI on the c172 frequently was INOP. And we had a total electrical failure when flying back from Georgia. We also had a radio failure in the Class B @ MIA just before landing. Go with Berichi Aviation, they don't limit you if you pass the checkout and show your a professional (or at least pretend you know what your doing).

Rates | Berichi Aviation (http://berichiaviation.com/rates/)

Aircraft Rentals (http://www.delandaviation.com/rentals/)

Parabungle
21st May 2016, 08:21
the aircraft must be registered to a US citizen or resident- or a corporation- or in trust - the trust costs about $700 a year i believe. I am looking to do this if you want to share fuel costs!

I-FLA
6th Oct 2016, 15:43
Hello all, anyone interested to share hours by the middle of October for 2 weeks in Florida @Edgewater at 35usd per hour?

RedBullGaveMeWings
8th Nov 2016, 13:51
Does anyone know anything about the two following places for hour building, both in Florida?
Home Page - Time Build Inc - Flight building hours services (http://www.timebuildinc.com)
FlightTimeBuilding.com - Affordable aircraft time building (http://www.flighttimebuilding.com)

melonpl
8th Dec 2016, 15:04
As above. Has anything heard about them? Are they worth it or is it a scam?
Cheers

IvanAntun
25th Dec 2016, 22:28
Hello mate,
I'm currently doing my modular ATPL theory in Oxford, after that was considering to go to USA for time-building.
My question is, you said you did alot of research, would you recommend Airplanes4rent company over FlightTimeBuilding , and why?
Becase the dry price for a C150 for a 100 hour block is 50$ , plus the fuel & oil i guess something like 25$ max . My friend went to that company he said that he paid as he flew, that everything was fine , he flew the PA28 for dry+fuel rate cca. 100$ ...

IvanAntun
26th Dec 2016, 19:15
Thanks you a lot for the information. Yes I have flown the C150 throughout my PPL, I like this aeroplane. But I am more interested in flying the PA28 to get some more experience with a low-wing design .
I have some time to organize since I can go there in the end of July at the earliest, so I'll do some more research.
Ideally, I would like to fly around the Midwest. But in case I dont find such an option, I guess Airplanes4Rent or FlightTimeBuilding would be a probable option.

A question to anyone reading this thread, do you know of any reliable company renting aircraft in the Midwest? Thanks

flying free.LEVC
31st Jan 2017, 14:21
That video is amazing dunc 201.

Does anyone one know a good flight school to do time builiding near Los Angeles??. I need to build just under 90 hours towards my CPL.

Kind regards

Locarno
14th May 2017, 13:51
Hey all,

I'm heading to Florida for my hour building in June and I've received my certificate of validation from the FAA for conversion of my UK EASA PPL to an FAA one. My understanding was that I now had to go to my FSDO (Orlando) with an appointment and to be issued with the temporary licence. However, I called them up asking for an appointment and the lady on the phone had no idea what I was asking for.

So what do I need to do?

Do I get a flight test with an international examiner THEN go to the FSDO? Or what exactly do I need to do from here to actually fly solo/PIC in Florida?

Thanks for all help!

EDIT: On a different note: What GoPro mounts are recommended to take videos and photos of the hour building? I see a lot of videos from behind the pilot seats looking out and I cannot think of any way to actually achieve this!

selfin
15th May 2017, 14:22
Locarno,

The Orlando FSDO has farmed this job out to the local Designated Pilot Examiners. There's one at Jack Brown's in Winter Haven who charges about $50 for a twenty minute process of filling in forms. There is an FAA database of DPEs here (http://av-info.faa.gov/DesigneeSearch.asp). Use FAA office "SO15" for the Orlando FSDO region.

Prior to acting as pilot in command you must complete a flight review (14 CFR 61.56 (https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=98f9ee531ab3ef0d664409ba02f04e54&mc=true&node=se14.2.61_156&rgn=div8)) with a US-certificated flight instructor. The short FAA guide for instructors, Conducting an Effective Flight Review (https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/media/flight_review.pdf), might be of interest. The instructor conducting the review will expect you to be acquainted with the flight rules in subpart B of Part 91.

FarewellFire
15th May 2017, 15:17
I did my EASA PPL in San Diego and decided to do hour building in the same region since I was already pretty familiar with that environment. I looked around a lot before deciding and in the end decided to become a member with Plus One Flyers (http://www.plusoneflyers.org/), who run ops at four different fields in the San Diego area. They do not own their own aircraft, rather individuals rent their planes through them using their platform.

There are a ton of different planes. I choose a great, newly refurbished PA28 Archer (180hp) with a Garmin 430 stack, digital fuel monitoring, etc. The price was 115 USD (wet) per hour and I managed to squeeze that down by 10% agreeing to fly at least 50 hours in my month. In the end I logged close to 90 hours in that time, flying to some great locations (Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Francisco, Los Angeles...).

The One Plus organisation is very professional, they even have on-call instructors around the clock that you call if you have any questions regarding safety. You pay 30 USD a month for membership.

I had a EASA PPL and did some paperwork through the FAA website. I booked a meeting at the local FAA office and did a very brief interview with them, basically to check that my language skills was proper enough. I then got a 90-day paper slip (and my FAA card was sent to my adress in Sweden a few weeks later). This license is a piggyback-type, meaning that I have to have a valid EASA at all times to back it up.

I came back after a month, a much better pilot thanks to the challenging environment (Class B, a lot of traffic) and the amazing scenery.

Here's a video summing up that month of flying: https://youtu.be/nxDbVjl8q6A

r10bbr
15th May 2017, 21:54
Hi Farewellfire what school did you go in san diego to do you easa ppl?

horus23
16th May 2017, 18:34
Guys, I've searched a lot but couldn't find much about Hour building with Flying academy in USA.
Anyone who has done it recently could share some thoughts?

I'm thinking about to do it with Airplanes4rent, but Flying academy is an option. Apart most of the questions about them, one thing was different in their website. They say you need a FAA Medical class 2. In other websites and even here in the forum I learned that with a license like the one I hold, EASA UK CAA PPL, you could just convert license and medical, go to the FSDO when you get there and they would print the license. Or should I get an FAA medical anyway?

selfin
17th May 2017, 00:47
Horus,

See 14 CFR 61.75 (https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=&SID=65b2ba63fbc13c164accc061a8515be0&mc=true&n=pt14.2.61&r=PART&ty=HTML#se14.2.61_175)(b)(4).

horus23
17th May 2017, 04:42
Thanks selfin, so there's no need for a FAA medical if you hold one from the country which issued your license.

Another question just came up:
All the hours that you log in USA as PIC, not P1 and not dual for the biannual, will count 100% for EASA correct? Is there anything that is recommended to have in order not to have problems to prove the hours you've flown?
I read that it was just a signature of the renter and a stamp would be it. So having those can I have peace of mind when I go to start my IR and CPL back to Europe?

Cheers

selfin
17th May 2017, 15:29
Horus,

Yes, however if your non-US medical certificate expires then you may obtain an FAA one.

Not all logged pilot-in-command time is deemed as such by EASA which only credits you for pilot-in-command time when you were the acting pilot-in-command. EASA treats training time received from an instructor as dual.

Any dual time received from a US-certificated flight instructor should be countersigned in your logbook. If you are not certain about the distinction between US and EU logging rules then forward a copy of the logbook to the prospective EASA training organisation for an assessment.

r10bbr
6th Jun 2017, 18:00
what school did you do your easa ppl farewellfire?

THE FLYING MONKEY
10th Jun 2017, 14:36
Hi guys and girls,

Could anyone give me a bit of advice about the heat in Arizona in summer?
I've got some time off in July/Aug and really fancy going out to chandler air service to do some hour building. I haven't had a holiday in years, since I've been saving for my training and am really looking forward to flying out there, hopefully having a few free days to relax too. I could go to other places or stay in the uk, now its summer, or even wait until the end of the year to go to Phoenix but if possible I would prefer to go during those months.
I've spoken to the school about the performance of their aircraft; they have told me they will cover all that when I get there. They also told me that it is hot and that it's better to fly early in the morning and get back to the pool in the afternoon to relax and plan the next days flying.
I know that it probably depends on the type of person you are and how much you feel the heat. I'm quite skinny and always cold compared to my family and friends half the time! So I love a bit of heat but 44 degrees is a different story!
I really hoped someone could give me their opinion on whether it would be ok if I'm careful or whether I'm crazy and would be miserable for the whole 3 weeks. I'm concerned with safety most of all and whether my concentration would be affected if it is too hot?

Any comments would be appreciated, whether you have done some flying in Arizona or even visited there in the summer 😅

Thanks

dera
16th Jun 2017, 03:34
The trip started out of Knoxville Downtown Island Airport (DKX).

I met the local examiner Jerry Rasmussen a retired FBI agent, who can do all types of check rides.



Just got to give a shout out to Jerry - I did my IR and CPL with him - great guy!

Average__Pilot
18th Jun 2017, 14:50
00000

rudestuff
23rd Jun 2017, 06:50
^^^ just don't do that if you want an EASA licence, EASA will not recognise safety pilot hours as PIC.

selfin
23rd Jun 2017, 09:07
rudestuff,

Do you care to back up that statement?

jamesgrainge
23rd Jun 2017, 09:52
rudestuff,

Do you care to back up that statement?

That is indeed correct. EASA does not recognise safety pilot as PIC

M-ONGO
23rd Jun 2017, 10:41
^^^ just don't do that if you want an EASA licence, EASA will not recognise safety pilot hours as PIC.

Fact. Don't do it!

selfin
23rd Jun 2017, 10:51
jamesgrainge,

Yet the decision is left to the national authorities which must disregard one or more Part-FCL rules to discredit pilot-in-command hours logged by a person acting as pilot-in-command. The discussion properly belongs in this other thread: http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/594738-changing-logbook-faa-easa.html

Average__Pilot
23rd Jun 2017, 11:43
^^^ just don't do that if you want an EASA licence, EASA will not recognize safety pilot hours as PIC.


Thanks to you and all other guys, who made the same statement.

Still, as I do understand, Total Time is not counted as well in this case?

And most important, if I'll still do it, with intentions to go to Africa/ Asia to beat 500TT mark, it strictly depends on the particular country/ authorities, to recognize safety pilot time and include in total?
Anyone has info/ examples of particular state?

jamesgrainge
24th Jun 2017, 09:28
jamesgrainge,

Yet the decision is left to the national authorities which must disregard one or more Part-FCL rules to discredit pilot-in-command hours logged by a person acting as pilot-in-command. The discussion properly belongs in this other thread: http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/594738-changing-logbook-faa-easa.html

The discussion is irrelevant though buddy.

Thems the EASA rules I'm afraid

selfin
24th Jun 2017, 13:59
jamesgrange,

Thems the EASA rules I'm afraid

Can you provide a specific reference for these please?

rudestuff
24th Jun 2017, 16:50
Cap804 section 1 part E page 3 and page 13. I know cap804 is now reference only, but it gives the gist of their thinking.

Safety pilot time in Europe cannot be logged, despite being a required crew member. Daft I know, but that means you can't count it towards total time. However, safety pilot time flown in the US, under US regulations CAN be logged as PIC (by acting as PIC and accepting responsibility for the flight) and can count towards total time.
If you fly it and are required, you can log it.

But because safety pilot time doesn't get logged in Europe, those hours won't be counted towards licence issue. Cap804 doesn't say your can't have those hours in your logbook, it just says you can't use them for licence issue.

selfin
24th Jun 2017, 18:57
rudestuff, thank you for your patience and the references to CAP804.

Section 3.6

Logging of Flight Hours gained in the USA
Some flight hour recording practices allowable in the USA do not comply with European
and UK requirements. In particular:

• 2 pilots flying together in a single pilot aircraft both claiming P1 hours;
• One pilot accompanying another on newsgathering or traffic control flights and
claiming P1/PIC when they have not acted as Captain or signed for the aircraft.

Flying hours of this nature cannot be credited towards the requirements for Part-FCL or
UK Licences.

This advisory information will result in the absurd situation in which neither pilot may log time for Part-FCL, and UK, licensing purposes. Specifically, it contradicts Part-FCL which allows for pilot-in-command time accumulated when acting as pilot-in-command to be counted towards Part-FCL requirements.

For UK and Part-FCL purposes a non-instructed person manipulating the controls, who does not act as pilot-in-command, is deemed to be either a passenger or a candidate undergoing a test, check, or assessment. It is entirely reasonable that such a person when he is a passenger may not log any time on a single-pilot aircraft for Part-FCL or UK purposes. It is not, however, reasonable to discredit the acting pilot-in-command who has undertaken the responsibilities and duties of the position, who has been liable for the safe operation of the aircraft and the safety of its occupants (ironically this outcome under the right conditions can exist under US regulations—Speranza 2009 refers).

Those of you who advocate that a safety pilot cannot be credited with pilot-in-command time for the period when he acted as pilot-in-command are in fact advocating for a rule disallowing creditable logging by the acting pilot-in-command for the period during which a passenger manipulate the controls. Alternatively, permitting one of the two persons to log pilot-in-command time, but prohibiting the acting pilot-in-command from doing so, results in the passenger logging PIC. Both of these outcomes are absurd.

Section 9: Guide to log annotations

Case A specifies that the pilot whose operating capacity is pilot-in-command should enter time in the P1 column of the logbook. Case N specifies that a pilot whose operating capacity is safety pilot may log supernumerary time. Within the framework of UK and European regulations these designations are mutually exclusive. The designations are not mutually exclusive under US regulations where a safety pilot may also be the acting pilot-in-command so this section in CAP804 fails to provide a clear indication of UK policy.

rudestuff
25th Jun 2017, 17:50
No one is saying that a safety pilot acting as PIC in the US isn't PIC. It happened in the US, under their rules and the Feds recognise it.

What they ARE saying is that because someone else has also logged PIC, which is inconsistent with EASA rules, there is now doubt as to who gets the PIC credit. To accurately credit PIC hours, you would need to supply your logbook, and the logbooks of every safety pilot you have flown with, which would all need to have accurately recorded who was 'acting' and who was not (a distinction not likely or required) - so that they could assign PIC and SNY. Clearly this would be completely impractical, so the simplest solution is to simply disallow (for licence issue) the relevant hours.

Put simply, a flight has to have a PIC, and the safety pilot would be deemed to be the PIC. The problem is in proving it.

selfin
25th Jun 2017, 19:18
To accurately credit PIC hours, you would need to supply ... the logbooks of every safety pilot you have flown with

That is unnecessary because standard logbooks contain an entry for the acting pilot-in-command.

... the safety pilot would be deemed to be the PIC. The problem is in proving it.

Under US regulations the required safety pilot need not be the acting pilot-in-command.

horus23
5th Jul 2017, 09:07
Hello,

Who went through the EASA - FAA PPL conversion (verification of foreign license) lately?

After all the paperwork with CAA and FAA done and after receiving the verification letter, the process used to be like this:

1) Make an appointment in the designated FSDO (the one you elected when you sent your form 8060-71 to the FAA)
2) Go to the FSDO with your license and medical and get them verified, a process that usually took about 20 min. Then get your FAA certificate printed (the plastic one sent to your home address in about 3 months)
3) Do a Biennial Flight Review (now just called Flight review) and you are done, you can legally fly N reg ac according to the privileges of your EASA license.

*this process done by the FSDO, checking your license and even sending you the plastic license was totally free of charge.

Having everything I called the FSDO which I chose, they told me that they no longer do conversion process and didn't even told me how to proceed, they told me to call the airman certification office in Oklahoma. The office told me that this is the FSDO responsibility and asked me to contact them (infinity loop?)

I found out that now what is being done in some places is the following:

1) You call one of the Designated Pilot Examiners (DPE) that work in the region covered by the FSDO that you chose and then this DPE will do what the FSDO used to do.

2) Take the Flight review and your done.

The question is: This process used to be free. Now, the DPEs that I've talked with, want $250 for this service (checking your license, medical and ID and printing the provisory FAA certificate).

Is that a new procedure in all FSDO in USA or just a way that some of them found to get money out of a process that was free of charge?

Amidoo
5th Jul 2017, 10:15
I booked an appointement with Scottsdale FSDO, two weeks ago, told me to show up with all the relevant documents. Could be something specific to the FSDO you chose ?

horus23
5th Jul 2017, 19:23
It could be. But it's Florida...
In FAA's website when you search for the FSDO you find that there are 3. The one in Orlando doesn't do license conversion (it' written there);
The one in Tampa I couldn't reach by phone, but its written there that you could do it directly with a DPE;
Miramar answered that they no longer do it, and I was told that the DPE would need a $250 for the service.

You know, if it's a federal fee for the service I would understand, but I don't get it why the FSDO is addressing people to the DPEs and they are charging all this money to do something that the FSDO could do in few minutes. :rolleyes:

Hitbacker
21st Sep 2017, 22:28
It could be. But it's Florida...
In FAA's website when you search for the FSDO you find that there are 3. The one in Orlando doesn't do license conversion (it' written there);
The one in Tampa I couldn't reach by phone, but its written there that you could do it directly with a DPE;
Miramar answered that they no longer do it, and I was told that the DPE would need a $250 for the service.

You know, if it's a federal fee for the service I would understand, but I don't get it why the FSDO is addressing people to the DPEs and they are charging all this money to do something that the FSDO could do in few minutes. :rolleyes:

https://www.fliegen-usa.de/formalitaeten/anerkennung-validation/

Friend of mine did it recently with them, examiner fee was waaaaay less than the described 250, I believe he had an admin fee for the flight school cuz they did lots of the processing plus the usual stuff for the Flight Review (which was probably well warranted to get comfortable with flying outside of Europe). Sorry it's in German :-).

ska38
16th Oct 2017, 14:54
Hi everyone,
I'm currently looking for a place to do 100hrs time building in the USA between March and April 2018. I'm already aware of the paperwork so I "only" need to find a place to rent an aircraft now.
Ideally, I would like to find a place where we can rent the plane and travel with (why not using the 100hrs to visit a bit!)

However, I've done all my PPL on EFIS equipped planes and I'm not very confident in coming back to 6-pack.
The question is do you know a place where we can rent EFIS equipped plane for a decent price. I know that it will dramatically increase the budget compared to a classic 6 pack one but I would like to try first to see if something nice can be found.
The maximum budget is 130 to 140 USD/hour wet for a 100hrs pack do you think it's manageable?
No expectation for the place, the weather has just to be OK in March to do 100hrs in a month.

Thank you in advance for your help.

dera
19th Oct 2017, 02:23
If you're only planning to fly VFR, that would be a great way to get used to 6-pack equipment.

You might be able to find a 172SP G1000 for that price but just barely - I don't have any places to recommend for such though.

ska38
19th Oct 2017, 08:22
Thank you for your reply. Indeed you're right for only VFR navigation 6-pack may be enough and for wind corrections there is still GPS true track information.

I'll save some money and use it to visit!

cavok_flyer
19th Oct 2017, 11:55
Check out https://www.westairaviation.com . Clean a/c, no EFIS, but really nice people. Ask Vin for a discount for block times and they are flexible about taking the a/c overnight. Nevada almost always has perfect flying weather, and you won't be bored at night in Vegas. Spectacular desert enviroment, lots of high-n-hot calculations. Just don't get N1079M since it is a real dog.

Korben777
15th Nov 2017, 21:51
horus23

I've got the same issue now. So now I am curious is it possible to change chosen office to another one to do it for free.:confused:

The second challenge for me now is to choose flight school for time-building. I would really appreciate any advice. If anybody going to do time-building in December please let me know, maybe I'll join.

vatir
20th Dec 2017, 22:21
Hi Everyone,

I’m going to Florida to do some hour building in February and I already have got my FAA verification letter.

BUT I will be getting my night rating in a few days here in he UK.

In order to fly at night in the US, would just my license with NR endoremsnet be enough or do I need a new verification letter that mentions I now have NR?

Thanks

rudestuff
21st Dec 2017, 16:21
Can can do whatever your FAA 61.75 certificate says. If it says day VFR only or night flight prohibited, you're limited. If it doesn't, you're not. (FAA certificates don't have a night rating as it is included.) If you show logbook evidence of bit flight meeting FAA requirements dual/solo the a FSDO *might* remove a restriction. How many hours are you doing?

vatir
21st Dec 2017, 20:01
Hi Rudestuff,

Thanks, I will be having just the required 5 Hours.

rudestuff
22nd Dec 2017, 07:48
I meant for hour building!

vatir
22nd Dec 2017, 23:37
115 hours in total.

rudestuff
23rd Dec 2017, 13:59
Ok. I am going to give you the advice I wish I'd had when I was in your position. I just piled in and went flying for 100 hours like you're planning to. It was easy, a lot of fun and in hindsight and long term that was a massively expensive decision.

You are about to pay a lot of money to fly 115 hours, so get as much out of it as you can. Think about what you are going to need later on in your career.

Specific advice:
1 Forget about doing the night rating.
2 Spend that cash on a standalone FAA PPL
3 Spend 40 hours getting an FAA IR

Why? You're not really going to rent a plane in the UK at night, so short term you don't need a night rating. Be honest, the only reason you're getting it is because you need it for a CPL. If you have an FAA PPL it automatically comes with night privileges, and as long as you have 5 hours night you will still qualify for an EASA CPL. The REAL reason for getting an FAA PPL is that you can add an FAA IR to it. Trust me, you really DO want to do that - because it will cost next to nothing (just the extra for an Instructor) - but you'll save at least £10,000 back home. An EASA CPL IR course takes 70 hours. With an FAA IR you only need 30 hours.

General advice: make every hour count. Fly at night, under the hood, cross country, PIC. Tick all the boxes.
My biggest regret was not doing my FAA IR. My second biggest regret was not getting more multi time (I'm thinking of becoming an MEP instructor but I need to pay for MEP time, jet time doesn't count! ) Of course you don't have that problem as I just gave you an extra £10k...

vatir
24th Dec 2017, 10:37
Hi Rudestuff,

Thanks for such a detailed and informative reply.

I would have done this a few months ago but its basically too late now to get a Student Visa as I'm leaving on the 2nd of February.

BUT to be honest I didn't find the IR prices in the states much cheaper than for example bartolini air.

again if I had this information a couple of months back I would have done it.

I think I actually got a good deal. $8500 for 115 hours on the 172. It will be shared with another your builder so in total I will be in the airplane for 230 Horus 115 hours of which I will be PIC.

Also every single flight will be Cross Country.

The reason I wanted to do my NR before I go is exactly what you mentioned and to be able to utilise on the hours building and make every hour count and maybe do 20-30 hours of that in night BUT I do need my night rating before I go.

So taking my situation into account do you still not recommend doing a NR before I go?

Thanks so much again.

selfin
24th Dec 2017, 13:30
The REAL reason for getting [a standalone] FAA PPL is that you can add an FAA IR to it.

A US IR can also be included in a foreign-based US private pilot certificate. FAA Order 8900.1, vol 5, ch2, §14 refers. FSIMS link 1 (http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=Search&q=61.75&kw=61.75&status=a&syn=1&sort=0&searchwv=0&searchfuzzy=0&), link 2 (http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/8900.1/v05%20airman%20cert/chapter%2002/05_002_014rev1.htm).

LightShade
24th Dec 2017, 17:46
Hi Vatir, how long did you licence took to be validated?
I am planning to go in us in February too but I didn’t receive my license verification yet ( I sent it in November )
I am wondering if I should start looking for alternatives.

vatir
24th Dec 2017, 19:40
Hi,
Really?

Mine came in exactly 8 days.

But then I wanted something changed and only in 2 more days it came.

Very good service from both CAA and FAA.

Maybe try giving them both a ring.

Far Canel
31st Dec 2017, 08:02
Hello people I need to get my 100 night so I can apply for the FAA ATP
I only have 35. Can anyone suggest somewhere in the states I could quickly get this done.

rudestuff
26th Jan 2018, 14:21
Anyone who is hour building - read the post above

That's what happens later on down the line if you don't think ahead when hour building. Night hours - they're free. It happened to me too - I could have had an FAA IR for the extra cost of an instructor. £1000 would have knocked £8,000 off my EASA training.

LPVL
4th Feb 2018, 21:08
Dear all,
I am keen to do 50h building nearby Miami.
I saw flighttimebuilding north of Orlando.
Would you recommend?

LPVL
7th Feb 2018, 12:43
Can you please provide feedback on Flighttimebuilding?
They have really good prices...
Any other good alternative?

Jaair
7th Feb 2018, 15:21
LPVL, some decent reviews on their Facebook page. I am also considering them.

miguel22
8th Feb 2018, 06:59
Dear all,
I am keen to do 50h building nearby Miami.
I saw flighttimebuilding north of Orlando.
Would you recommend?

For how long you are planning to do this? 2 weeks?

Thanks and good luck!

LPVL
8th Feb 2018, 09:54
Affirm. 15 days shall be enough.

miguel22
8th Feb 2018, 14:56
Quite intensive no? If you take saturday and sunday OFF it's around 5h per day. You planned flying morning and afternoon?

Jaair
8th Feb 2018, 14:59
I've noticed a lot of schools in Florida advertise 25 hrs per week for time building (also flying weekends).

rudestuff
8th Feb 2018, 15:57
5 hours a day should be a minimum - if you're there specifically to hour build. What would you do after lunch?

Jaair
8th Feb 2018, 16:08
Start your next cross country flight for your next $100 burger of course.

LPVL
18th Feb 2018, 04:07
How about airplanes4rent and pilotsparadise, both in FL.
Anyone's feedback?

LPVL
20th Feb 2018, 15:25
Question is:
Pilotsparadise vs Flighttimebuilding vs Airplanes4rent
which one to select.
Could you please provide some words of advice?

Thank you so much.

aman777
21st Feb 2018, 13:40
I am going to Flight time building next months. They seem good

LPVL
2nd Mar 2018, 20:23
Anyone experienced Airplanes4rent?

rudestuff
23rd Mar 2018, 10:22
It's definitely worth doing if you're still hour building - it'll get you used to multi and save on training costs later on.
It won't be pic as far as EASA is concerned if you're with an instructor.

rudestuff
23rd Mar 2018, 10:25
There are a few places that offer an Aircam on amphibious floats - you can get multi land and sea at the same time for about £2000

Super Sheep
15th May 2018, 09:27
Hi all,

I’m currently competing my ATPL’s and am on the hunt for somewhere interesting to buld about 75 hours. I want to take the path less trodden (but without putting myself in mortal danger in the process).

I would consider almost anywhere, self-fly bush piloting in Africa, Australia, South America or even the more ;conventional destinations of Europe, the USA e.g. Arizona and Canada. The only requirement I have is not to spend the time drilling circles in the sky above the featureless Florida marshland!

Cost is unfortunately still king with an absolute maximum budget of 15,000 GBP including flights and accommodation.

Wisdom from those in the know would be much appreciated, thanks.

rudestuff
15th May 2018, 18:03
1. Get an FAA IR
2. Rent a plane in Florida.
3. Fly it away from Florida
4. ....wearing a hood
5. ..... preferably at night
6. ....... definitely under IFR for at least 50 hours
7. Convert under CBIR rules with Zero minimums

ackaraosman
21st Jun 2018, 23:18
Hello
I will be having easa ppl in east europe next month. Since i ve discoverd pprune, hour building in usa idea is making me excited thanks to you all. At first i was just interested in hour building, but after reading @rudestuff's posts, i will consider to have and IR on easa ppl (piggyback). Just looking for an option making it possible without student visa. (probably tourist visa wont help, i will need an m1)

So probably i will need to move like this
1. Easa ppl -----> 61.75 ppl paperwork
2. Rent a plane and fly 50 hours VFR
3 Have an IR on 61.75(not sure how i can do it)
4 Then fly 50 more hours IFR
5. Wearing hood, night etc
6. Conversion according to cbir in europe

it would be much appreciated if you could suggest an instructor or an aero club where i could finish this process easily.

AdamQuinny
1st Jul 2018, 12:44
Is there a limit on how many hours you can fly daily? Say I have a ppl with NR am I allowed to fly 4-6 hours (not continuously) in a Cessna 152/172?

rudestuff
1st Jul 2018, 13:11
Yes, you can't fly more than 24 hours in a day.

AdamQuinny
1st Jul 2018, 13:28
Yes, you can't fly more than 24 hours in a day.

Why did I bother? *sigh*

Field Required
18th Sep 2018, 15:25
Hi,

Many of the search results here are fairly old so wanted to see if anyone could recommend a place to hire aircraft for hour building on the west coast. Ideally I'd like to tour up the country so overnights are a must.
Any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Kai Tak
18th Sep 2018, 18:14
Plus One Flyers San Diego.
Cheap rates, only a minimum of 1 hour a day for 24h rental.
https://www.plusoneflyers.org/

Contact Approach
18th Sep 2018, 18:23
Thanks Kai Tak. Have you used them previously?