Double manual - Makalia 1A1

[GipsyMagpie]

Has anyone ever had a real double manual emergency with Makalia 1A1 (AS332C1/L1)? I am being told it's so unlikely there is no drill for it. Seems like ignoring the elephant in the room to me. I think you can get to it with some critical electrical failure (double TRU + battery fail) which doesn't seem that incredible. Does anyone out there practice for it and what is your technique?

Cheers

[[email protected]]

You might want to have a look at the Sea King double manual drill to give you some ideas - we practice it regularly and it works.

[GipsyMagpie]

I practiced just that in the sim this week but there are a few differences which are going to make converting the technique a challenge (no separate man throttle lever, odd torque gauge, ratchet in throttle, engine response etc). Thanks though.

[AAKEE]

Is the question for total loss of elec Power?
At batt < 22 Volt the ECU will freeze the NG att 28200 rpm.

We have it in our emerg checklist and practice it in the sim.
I havent heard of any real failure like this on the AS332.

[[email protected]]

(no separate man throttle lever, odd torque gauge, ratchet in throttle, engine response etc) well, it is French so it was never going to be easy:) Good luck:ok:

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

I havent heard of any real failure like this on the AS332


There has been at least one real case on the Sea King, caused by both rectifiers failing (one was known about, the other was masked by a complex internal fault which saw the remaining rectifier push out just enough DC to keep the caption off but insufficient to charge the battery). The battery then failed unexpectedly which led to simultaneous failures of a number of systems including both fuel computers. Unlikely this will happen again, on a Sea King or any other type, but never say never!

[Hummingfrog]

The 365N/N2 has a drill for double manual which was fairly straight forward and from memory set one throttle at a certain Tq then used the other for RRPM control - when the power setting started to get high that throttle was left at the higher Tq and the other used for RRPM control.

Once on the ground the only critical drill was not to lower the collective until the yellow throttle handles had been retarded otherwise both engines would over speed!! So one would go from hero to zero in one moment!!

HF

[iamthetroll]

I know that at least one operator has given it, a little more than, a second thought and mentioned it at the end of their major gov fail checklist as a "note".
When I've seen it in the sim experience took over at about 100ft over the water when I told the other seat to take the controls and thrust one of the levers forward.

Said "Notes", advise setting 20% tq on one engine and varying the other according to collective position (typically nominating the engine, that will be varied, as the lever which is closest to whom that will adjust it).
As the aircraft touches down in a running landing then steadily reduce the engine -which is being used to to control Nr- to the cut off position; without abruptly cutting drive according to pitch/collective position. When the aircraft weight is fully on the wheels and the variable engine is reduced to cut off then control idle Nr with the remaining lever. Shutting down if necessary.

...I think. It's hazy, but I hope this helps.

[GipsyMagpie]

Thanks. Our plan is to essentially leave throttles alone in transit and for Hp to control nr. Then for approach, nhp sets approx descent power on both with NHp controlling nr on far throttle until hover power reached then. transfer back to near throttle for llast bit. Then adjust near until wheels light (keeping far at hover for abort). Then retard progressively to fully landed. All assumes you cannot do running landing of course. I think this matches sea King but we won't have torque gauge in worst case. Should be interesting.

[Non-PC Plod]

Whilst I am not familiar with this aircraft type, one technique that seems pretty straightforward on the types I teach on (assuming that there is a runway available somewhre) is:

Get the aircraft straight and level with Nr within normal operating range at about 500ft and Vy or slightly below. Once lined up with the runway, dont touch collective or throttle, just initiate a descent by reducing speed a bit. On the wrong side of the drag curve, you can quite easily control your descent angle by gently altering airspeed. When you arrive at the runway, pull collective to cushion, and overpitch onto runway. Nr will droop. Reduce engine power as (or before) you lower collective.
This technique works well when single-pilot and the traditional technique gets a bit challenging!

[212man]

GM,
it's a while since I flew the AS332 (last flight 1994 :uhoh:) but if I understand your question, are you referring to the situation where there is a total electrical failure and therefore loss of ECU function? My recollection is that the engines freeze at 28,500 Ng but I don't recall there being manual FCU control in that specific instance, but stand to be corrected.

I remember some discussion about this in 1992, following the BHL 332 engine failure after departure from the Brae field, when the engine seized instantly following a tie-bolt failure and subsequent intake-cone ingestion. Subsequent attempts to relight it caused a progressive loss of electrics to the point of battery power only. They landed on the Miller, but I don't think they were very long from losing all electrical power and thus the discussion was on finding yourself offshore OEI with fixed power :(

[HughMartin]

Many moons ago when I flew the AS332L, I had a sim session when the examiner "failed" both engine FCU's and both engines went to 28000rpm (or thereabouts).

We got back onto a runway by bringing one engine FFCL to idle (fast reduction?) and by using the other engine FFCL manual range to control rotor RPM we carried out a single engine profile run-on landing and then shut down both engines immediately after landing as I lowered the collective.

As far as I can remember, it must have involved a total electrical failure as the only engine/rotor indications indications we had was the P2 mini RPM needle and listening to the sound of the rotors which gave a good indication of falling or increasing RPM. We lost all intercom as well obviously.

[AAKEE]

Yes, you need to loose both TR (transforming rectifyers) or both alternators, then you need to draw the battery down to below 22V ( equals about 20minutes with some Powersawing procedures, or 40 minutes in our case, we have double batterys).

If not too heavy or hot and high, its possible to fly home on the freezed ng (28.200).

I had one TR failing resulting in a lot of 'burned electrical' smell, was in 'another place of the world' ( = Hot, High, Heavy). Just for checking I lowered the stick to get 2* 28.200 ng wich resulted in a descent of about 500fpm at Vy.
In those cases it should be needed to go manual on the throttle to at least keep altitude.
Haven't tried it in the sim, but it should be possible to do ( if I recall the ECU/FCU drawings correctly)