Massey University Selection Requirements.

[AutoThrottle549]

Hello Everyone.

I am currently in Year 13 after lots of research on different flight schools within New Zealand, finally made a decision to enrol into Massey University Bachelor of Aviation- ATP course. I have even cleared the first stage of the selection process where you have do the ADAPT online pre-screening test and I have been invited to the next stage of selection process which is to be held in campus in Palmerston North. The selection process include:
-35 min panel interview.
-2.5 hour Symbiotics ADAPT online Assessments.
-1 hour AeroScience covering Mathematics multiple-choice test and English writing test.

I was wandering if any current or past Massey student who have been through this process could give me any information about any of these test, like how to prepare for them and how to do well in the AeroScience and Mathematics test. I have this selection on 6th of November 2013 so please any suggestion/tips would be appreciated.

Cheers. :ok::ok:

[Luke SkyToddler]

Prerequisites for getting into Massey school of Aviation :

1) Have a pulse
2) Have more money than brains
3) Have some irrational desire to spend twice as much, and take three times as long, to end up no more (and arguably less) employable as a pilot than anyone else in the country who trained at a hick aero club.

All that preselection criteria test nonsense is a well polished scam, like the rest of the Massey program. You got the money, you'll "pass". But hells bells do some proper research, and talk to some actual airline pilots about their opinion of training in NZ / what they think of that particular school, before you make that decision. You'll be in for a very big surprise, if all you're basing your decision on is the Massey marketing guff.

[peterc005]

I've known a few airline pilots over the years who went to Massey University and spoke very well of it.

Integrated airline training, backed up by academic qualifications, is the future. For most it offers a faster path into the airlines and better long term prospects.

[pineappledaz]

Hey there, I went through the beginning of the process last year but decided to go with Flight Training Manawatu. At my age I couldn't afford to spend the years of training there.

They used to have a bad name but things have improved hugely. Their program is a lot more practical and at least they have glass cockpit planes. They have some very very nice people there and their program is well organised..well better than FTM.

Saying that FTM has ALOT more flexibility. The Massey program is not for the faint hearted. You will have to work very hard, no going out on a friday night partying...may not be flying for weeks/months while you study ground work.

However you will find it very very very hard to get an instructor job there if..and a big if....you make it through the selection process just to do the instructor course. Not sure if you are aware of this it is in very small print. This will leave you in a position where you will have to do a flight instructor course at another organisation and you will have a very big bill at the end. Look at adding another $20,000 to your Massey bill.

Yeah sure you end up on the right side of the prefer candidate fence but you still have to meet the minimum hour requirements, which at the moment is 500 hours. At your age instructing work will be the primary source of hour building and you need a serious amount of life "soft" skills before airline work.

This is a very hard decision for you. Massey is a very good program but don't step out of line..and think about your future because the odds of getting a FI job there is very slim. Despite what they have told you...you will spend more at Massey but things aren't really equal as you end up with a degree and not a diploma. If you complete your training elsewhere you will prob have better options and flexibility. If you are moving have you looked at Hawkes Bay, Hasting aero club, still an Air NZ FTO partner and a very good school. FTM is good but the planes are dated and you have to pander to the wants of international students.

As for your question..the aeroscience test is like a principals of flight (POF) test, POF is a big part of flying and a waypoints book will help with that. Google is also your friend, it wont be anything in depth just have a basic understanding of what allows a plane to fly..The online stuff is a psyc test..just answer the questions honestly as you cannot prepare for these tests. For the interview you have to be yourself but you have to show that you want to be there..have a plan of where you want to be and what you want to do. The maths test involves some derivations etc. Give Anke Smith a call.

From what I'm told the sim test is basic straight and level with a few turns, just enjoy it as the only test is to see how you act under pressure.

Hope this helps. Best wishes and good luck!!

[27/09]

You can find places just as good and much cheaper, closer to home. Don't get sucked in with the marketing hype.

[27/09]

peterc005
Integrated airline training, backed up by academic qualifications, is the future. For most it offers a faster path into the airlines and better long term prospects. I don't think so, I haven't seen any evidence of this.

[deadcut]

Academic Qualifications??

To fly a plane??

:hmm:

[captain oates]

Think carefully how much debt you will incur. Unless your parents can help, most out of Massey end up with student loans in excess of 100k. If you want to leave NZ to find that first job, (and it's a good chance you will), then you're charged 6% interest on that. That's a big chain tethering you to NZ and its relatively small G.A. market.

Then again, massive crippling student loan debt probably is not a deterrent for the average 18 year old, or Massey wouldn't have any students.

[LadyLlamapilot]

I look at it this way:
The degree course is what? 3 years? At the end of 3 years you will have a nice shiny degree and 200 odd hours with I assume an instrument rating.
You could go to an aero club or NAC, or one of the other schools that do just straight flying courses without the degree part, and in 9 months have a CPL, roughly 12 months with IFR.

When you finish your degree noone that is hiring is going to care that you have either that, or an IF rating. You will be flying a busted arse old 206 or 210, and no, it will not have a glass cockpit. If you do the straight CPL course, and providing you get a job reasonably smartly, you might do say 500-700 hours a year depending on the job. By the time you get to 3 years from now, where you would be starting out getting a job had you done the degree, you might have 1000-1500 hours, I think I had 1800 hours by then, and you can be well on your way flying a twin engine and/or turbine with the possibility of moving into a regional airline within a year easily. The airlines want to see that you passed Year 12/13 maths and physics. The degree from what I have seen is barely worth the piece of paper it is written on.
Doing that extra 2 years is merely delaying your career for 2 years at a lot more expense for no real gain.
My two cents worth, go and get a job loading a topdressing plane while doing your CPL. It will help pay for it and you will learn more about practical flying in a week than most of todays wet behind the ears instructors could teach you in a year. It will also give you an aviation reference which will help with that first job.

[lilflyboy262...2]

@abnfamous,
Massey or not, Botswana is no longer a fresh out of flight school place. 500hr minimum for licence validation now.

As for the degree. It's great if you don't have university entrance, otherwise meh. It's a massive loan and 2yrs that you could have been working

The place isn't all it's cracked up to be. There is some smaller schools that have a much more personal touch and have a-cats working for them.
I believe eagle flight training in Ardmore has 3 a-cats on the books.

For the original poster, do some real research. Ask pilots that are in the industry out at your local airport. Don't listen to the marketing crap. They are a bunch of sirens looking to lure you in to make you part with your money.

[mattyj]

Pilots think degrees and diplomas in aviation are a crock..but they don't do the hiring anymore! The HR weirdos that have completely infested airnz are right into that stuff lock stock and 2 barrels! Maybe it will be useful down the track..plus learn how to upsell yourself..

(Whatever that means..)

[S.E.A.L.11]

Auto throttle. Don't listen to the haters on here, they are using the perception Massey had about 5 years ago plus. A lot has changed since then.

Quality school using quality gear with a quality training programme. Instructors are as good as you'll find anywhere. It has it's cons, but where doesn't.

Expensive yes, outrageous no. Time to complete, slightly longer than others but you have a degree. Also degrees will be more important the longer time goes on. If anything it puts you ahead of others.

The marketing has been carefully monitored by pilots and industry and has very few untruths in it. Unlike some other major organizations around.

Do your research and look around but make the decision for yourself. A number of the antis on here have never even walked through the doors of the place. I suggest you do, at all the places you're looking at.

Hope this helps.

[27/09]

The marketing has been carefully monitored by pilots and industry and has very few untruths in it.

Hmmmm is that so? They weren't above telling big untruths only a few years ago, what's changed?

Also degrees will be more important the longer time goes on. If anything it puts you ahead of others.

How much longer? This old chestnut has been trotted out from the time Massey got started. I've yet to see any evidence of this in this part of the world.

A number of the antis on here have never even walked through the doors of the place. There's not been any need to. One only has to talk to some who have been to Massey, or listen to some of the marketing spiel. Like one other well known larger operator it's not what's said, it's what's inferred and left unsaid that really matters.

There's been some horror stories, like students who have done some flight training prior to going to Massey who had red lines drawn through the hours they had done and told these hours didn't count at Massey.

S.E.A.L. We do agree on one thing, have a good look around and walk through the doors of various places..

[Ollie Onion]

I am in no doubt that the flying training and licence you end up with at the end of your time at Massey is of quality comparable to any other flight training establishment.

The big problem that I see with Massey is the time it takes, you can do a full time course to CPL / IR in approx 12-14 months. The extra time at Massey is, in my opinion' a total waste of time. The degree is so aviation specific it won't serve any useful purpose in the real world. At this stage NO airline in this part of the world requires a degree to work for them.

My advice, pick one of the 'other' flight training establishments from:

Become a Pilot (http://www.aviationinstitute.co.nz/ai/school-of-flight/nz-diploma-in-aviation-airline-preparation/)

Use the time and money you save by not going to Massey to build experience in GA.

[Centaurus]

At the end of the day your first 1000 hours flying a clapped out 206 are going to do much more to develop your standards than the flying school you went to ever will.

While I agree wholeheartedly with that comment, you have the contrary point of view of one letter to the editor of Flight International who claims "You do not need 1500 hours to be an airline pilot. In fact, the less time you have the better because you have fewer bad habits to overcome"

What rubbish. Sorry - thread drift...

[DeltaT]

Consider this.
Go do your Massey course next year and you will come out of it finished just in time when Air NZ recruitment stops. :ouch:

[ZKSUJ]

Here's MY PERSONAL take on things.

Are there dickheads at Massey? Yes. But there are also dickheads outside Massey. I was a Massey grad but went out into the GA world knowing that I was a newbie and no better than anyone else. (You need to stay grounded and not get on a high horse because you trained at Massey. I've seen it happen with others). I've had a few Massey instructors and students say some very arrogant and condescending things to me when I worked at another company (don't be one of them), in saying that there are some really top guys in there as well.

Massey guys traditionally have had a reputation for being arrogant know it all types (There are a few from Massey I know, but that goes for other places too). Now whether this is the actual case or not depends on the person rather than the school me thinks.

I have flown with a number of people who are skeptical about Massey pilots just due to the school's reputation in the past and a few bad eggs that have made their way through the company in the past few years. So yes, they do have quite a bad rep around the traps. This is a Fact.

I'd tell you to look around like many others on here have. Air Hawkes Bay seem to have a good course going. You may not get a degree there but you get more flight time there and I feel that they set you up better for the GA world to get experience, and it's also part of this institute thingy Air NZ are going on about. They would be my pick if I had to start again. Get a degree in something else that could help you outside aviation. I've heard good things about NAC in Motueka as well.

It does however sound like you have your heart set on Massey, so heres some advice. Remember that you will have to go through GA just like everyone else and build up experience that way. Massey does not by any chance mean you will land a job with Air NZ out of flight school, it simply will not happen given the way things are right now. Even if you are the 'lucky' one chosen for this AIC thing they have going, you will still need to go out into GA and build time (which can take a while at low pay). Massey was a good school when I was there (I don't know what it's like now) in the sense that if gave you everything in 1 course (CPL, ATPL theory, BGT, MEIR etc) But I know other schools do this too. I thought that the training I got at Massey was to a good standard, I made some good mates and had a good time there as a student.

However, I know what 'dreams' they try to sell students (I fell for those BS stories), but truth is you will be very sheltered in Massey and you have to realize that. You will hear some people who have never left the joint go on about doing things to the 'Massey Standard', but this standard is the same CAA standard used through out the country. Bear that in mind

When you come out of it, accept the fact that Massey pilots are still newbies, realise that Massey is just another flying school and that you do not have a job waiting for you, be 'humble' enough to talk to others in GA and take their advice along the way, don't be a ********, have a good attitude, realise you are no better/no worse than any one else, work hard, don't stir sh*t or stab people in the back, and things will turn out okay

[27/09]

ZK-SUJ

That's a very well written post.

One thing I would ad is while the Air NZ Aviation Institute does have some good points, prospective pilots who enroll on this course must realise there is a very limited no of jobs for the graduates. Most graduates WILL have to go out into GA to get that first job and will probably have to spend money on further qualifications to get that job. Money they may not have had to send if they didn't do the Aviation Institute course.

[AutoThrottle549]

Thanks. Have you been through this process and if yes in what year.
I was talking to one of the flight instructor there on open day he said they are epecting to take 50 students this year. Whats the average no of people they reject each year.

[27/09]

Whats the average no of people they reject each year.

I'd guess close to zero.