I'm changing profession

[zepekinio]

Dear Pilot,

I am pleased to inform you of Eagle Jet International's next heavy jet program. *The program takes place on the Boeing 767 aircraft (most flights taking place on the -300 Extended Range version). *The B767 aircraft is a wide body long haul glass cockpit / EFIS aircraft and is one of the most popular aircraft in operations with airlines worldwide. *Average seating configuration is for 250 passengers. *

This program gives selected pilots the unique opportunity to complete one thousand two hundred fifty (1250) hours as a Boeing 767 First Officer based out of a touristic area in Asia. *Upon program completion, pilots will therefore meet the flight time requirements to obtain a Full ATP license worldwide.

As pilots will have more than 500 hours on type upon program completion, validating the type rating with most aviation authorities worldwide is a simple process (might include a simulator check depending on the aviation authorities).

The B767 type rating also gives the B757 type rating and the type rating endorsed on pilots license is B757/767. *This gives pilots with extensive B767 experience*an additional opportunity*to also have direct access to B757 positions as the type ratings are similar (same endorsement) and airlines worldwide consider pilots with B767 experience for both B757 and B767 positions when they require hours on type.

The maximum takeoff weight of the B767 aircraft is over 180 tons which gives pilots experience on an aircraft much heavier than the B757. *This is important for pilots who consider joining some of the largest major airlines worldwide as they often require hours on wide body aircraft above a specific MTOW which is a requirement met by the wide body B767 aircraft.

Only one class is scheduled to start with program start date in November 2013.



Program Schedule:
Pre-approval based on resume. *Window of application is now open.
Late October 2013: One day assessment in London or Miami depending on pilot's preference.
November 2013 in the USA: B767 Jet Orientation Course, American FAA B767 Type Rating Course and B767 additional training to proficiency.
Early January 2014 in Asia with Eagle Jet International partner airline: Airline Conversion Course followed by*one thousand two hundred fifty (1250) hours as a Boeing 767 First Officer during worldwide passenger operations. *Duration to complete 1250 hours is about 2 years.
Program Requirements:
American FAA Commercial Pilot License with Instrument and Multiengine Ratings
FAA First Class Medical
No flight time*requirements
No minimum age requirements
Price and Payment Plan:
Assessment: to be issued shortly and to be paid to the TRTO directly
B767 Jet Orientation Course, American FAA B767 Type Rating Course and B767 additional training to proficiency: $20,000 to $25,000 USD depending on pilot's proficiency to be paid to the TRTO directly.
Airline Conversion Course and*one thousand two hundred fifty (1250) hours as a Boeing 767 First Officer: €44,500 EUR.*€5,000 EUR is due after program acceptance and once program agreement has been signed and €39,500 EUR is due upon completion of the B767 training to proficiency course.
No salary while attending the program. *No VAT / taxes are to be added to the above costs.
Pilots are responsible for their living expenses at their home base but receive assistance from the airline to locate housing. *During overnights while on duty, airline covers hotel expenses, meals and transportation.
Application:
Only if you meet the above program requirements and have confirmed full time availability to start the program in November, you can apply by emailing current aviation resume / CV. *
Pilots whose resumes are pre-approved will be contacted with full program details including program agreement.
No telephone calls at this stage.

Sincerely,
Stephane Hoinville
President of Flight Operations

[cgwhitemonk11]

It has begun guys... this profession is officially a hobby

[rdane042]

This is totally disgrace!

[VT-ASM]

No wonder the TC's are spiralling towards the deep dark abyss.
Who are the bigger M:mad:r:mad:ns here ?
The companies who proliferate this nonsense or the folks who pay their way through and allow these pilot brothels to proliferate ?
Do SLF flying by such arlines know that their planes are possibly flown by possibly incompetent people who have paid their way to the RHS/LHS ?

[lee_apromise]

Which airlines is this?

[Fly-Boi-1992]

Working for 2 years on a no salary basis is surely not the norm... atleast, it shouldn't be, unless of course you're working for a charity, and there's something telling me that these airlines are not charities. I surely hope this doesn't become they way of life for pilots, if so, i'm done before i'm even started. Who knows, maybe the money will run out and only then will people see sense.

[Torque Tonight]

It's becoming the norm. Welcome to the profession... errr, I mean hobby!

[VT-ASM]

Is there no way to stop this cancer ?
What do the regulatory authorities think of this ?

[G-F0RC3]

Unfortunately there isn't a feasible way to stop this from happening without making it illegal. But governments won't legislate against it. Why would they? They don't care about the career ambitions of aspiring pilots. They only care about their own career ambitions.

But schemes like this make a complete mockery of the profession. Any business which doesn't see its employees as an asset doesn't deserve good employees. This is clearly one such business. And anybody who has gone through such a scheme will come out the other side feeling used.

Edit: I wanted to add to the above to say that it's ultimately the pilots who accept such schemes that are allowing the bar to be set where it is. That's why, even if it were to cost me the career I've always wanted, I will never get involved in any of the crap. Only airlines which treat their pilots with respect will be of interest to me.

[cavortingcheetah]

Deepest sympathies and all that but this is the legacy from a previous generation of pilots who started the ball game rolling some years ago when they started bonding/paying for their own type ratings for airlines such as BMI or Air UK.
Just as then so now will this become the norm. You just have to look at it as though you were going to put yourself through university and come out fully qualified with an internship at the end of the tunnel.
The whole business is unconscionable but everyone will do it, as all did in the past, even those who protested mightily. So you don't really have the option and that's an end on it.

[3bars]

I'm gonna become a bus driver... They get paid more and don't have to contend with airline and airport bs:sad:

[cavortingcheetah]

One of the best jobs in the world for the $ must be that of a London underground train driver. >$100,000 a year to steer an aluminium tube through the darkness. Left to your own devices in the cockpit and never, ever having to come into direct contact with your human cargo. Duty times that never extend through a 24 hour period. No night stops and always a bonus at the mere whiff of a walk out. No one really cares however much a slob you look in your uniform although that's a characteristic of sartorial sloppiness that is far too characteristic of far too many pilots of the wingéd aluminum tube these days.

[Luke SkyToddler]

What rot to say "you don't have an option" Cheetah - just look at some of those muppets who did p2f with eagle jet / Lion Air and then found on return to the first world that they were still unemployable, that their CV's were still getting binned by any respectable employer. P2F is bad enough but P2F with a third world, blacklisted operator is just utter insanity no matter how bad the job market gets.

"Touristic area in Asia" with a company that operates -ER and non -ER B767s ... it can only be Orient Thai.

If someone was considering doing this and couldn't be persuaded out of it by financial and moral arguments, then for God's sake do your research on the operator - if it is who I think it is, then they are blacklisted in the EU and have a record of accidents and safety violations as long as your arm. Ask yourself what am I really going to get out of paying these guys all this money, will my CV look better at the end or will it actually set off alarm bells in most chief pilot's heads?

Personally I think your $85000 would be much better spent just sitting on a beach in Phuket for the two years, and then go instructing when you get back to Europe :ok:

[Luke SkyToddler]

5 seconds on google reveals a couple of the following gems ... (One-two-go was the 100% owned domestic subsidiary of Orient Thai - the name was removed from service after the OG269 disaster).

On September 2004, an Orient Thai 747 flew within 200 meters of Japan's Tokyo Tower over the heart of downtown Tokyo.[3]

On July 22, 2008, shortly after the crash in Phuket which killed 89 people, and after the internet publication of illegally excessive work hours and check fraud Orient Thai and its subsidiaries were ordered to suspend service for 56 days due to failure to train, failure to have a safety program and failure to supervise safe flight, check ride fraud and breaking the law at Orient Thai and One-Two-GO.[4]

The cause of the crash was later determined to be multiple flight crew errors caused by systemic failures including corruption and lack of training at One-Two-GO and within Thailand's Civil Aviation Authority, Department of Civil Aviation.[11]

Three years after the crash, the British Coroner's Inquest examining the cause of the British nationals' deaths[12] cited the "flagrant disregard for passenger safety" at One-Two-GO and said "the primary failure so far as I am concerned relates to the corporate culture which prevailed both One-Two-Go Airlines and Orient Thai Airlines prior to and following the air crash."

Now even if you have no moral objection to P2F, I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if it's a good idea to give $85,000 and two years of your life for free, to these kind of people :hmm:

[cavortingcheetah]

It's doubtful that any of the older generation would have even considered paying for a type rating with a carrier of such horrendous record as the one illustrated. The point is though that, just as bonding was once reviled as a means of self ingratiation and advancement with airlines, now bonding would be considered a wonder deal as the norm begins to drift towards P2F.
It's the pilots of the past who let the thin edge of that wedge into the career programme of today's pilots. Just as in any other investment decision though, sensible evaluation as to how you're going to spend your money is required.
That's all it is after all, a financial investment and if you sink your money into the Balkans you must expect to be bitten.

[r1flyguy35]

Isn't it just what Ryanair do, just not so obvious :E

[cefey]

Once people understand how this really works - less people will go through flight schools.
Less pilots available - more company will pay for TR.

Only biggest ** with huge wallet will pay close to 200.000USD to become a pilot this days.

[Stalker_]

To the op - don't change profession there's more of us than there are of them, its a battle, we cant back down when a program comes along like this. Stand strong we are professional pilots, I care for my industry and the people in it.

There is a place for new commercial pilots too, and you will be welcomed and respected by others if you work hard.

[Iflyabus]

No cefey, more and more pilots will pay. It has been like that since these last 30 years. It s not going to change. Thousand of new pilots coming in this market every year and airlines generally prefer to train their own pilots.


We are simply too many. This job is only for the rich boys of rich families. It became a hobby as most pilots will never be paid. Or for the lucky one who will join a national airline at no cost.

Nobody will be sorry for your ass if you lose all your cash and finish with nothing.

[Dash-Driver]

This disgusting pay-2-fly programme.
Our FOM receives a few offers each month where shady providers tell him and our company how to save much money by paying pilots. But the most cruel thing is, and this will nowhere be spoken out loudly, the "richies" who attended such a p2f programme will barely get a job after their programme completion.
most operators call em losers.
Can't imagine how blind a "dream" can make.

one programme from switzerland:
500hrs on an old ATR42, non salary duration, 36.000€ !!!! tell me where the :mad: will you have more chances with 500 babyhours while the operator exactly knows how you achieved these...

[P40Warhawk]

Thats Farnair.

Yes exactly. A 500 hours on type is totally useless.
I'd rather work myself up from GA, TP, Small Jet to Big Jet.

To pay for your initial TR is not a huge isue, as long as you dont have to pay for your line training and get atleast a 3-5 yr contract or better a PERMANENT contract.
Of course rather not pay, but this aint as bad as paying for 300-500 hours where you in general have to shut up and push some buttons and not even allowed to Take Off or Land the plane. So what do you learn while doing your Line Training?
NOTHING.

If you work, you got to get paid for it. Not pay to work. :yuk:

This crap has to stop. This 767 program is horrific.