cheapest SPIFR type known to exist?

[Reely340]

Out of pure curiosity: what is the cheapest/smallest helicopter known first hand by a member of this honorable community to be single pilot IFR certified?

I've seen a BO105, was today PAX in an IFR EC135, no big deal. But are there say MD500s that may do SPIFR? Or JetBangers? Or even piston powered types like Hu269, R44 ;) ?

TIA
Peter

[DeltaNg]

For public transport, you need two engines to conduct IFR.

[Thomas coupling]

Do Bristow still use their SPIFR JetBox for IR's?

[Reely340]

@DeltaNg
So, commercial IFR needs twins, got that. But what about corporate private helicopters?

Hauling the CEO & GF thru the clouds in an A-Star?
Anybody heard/seen something like that?

[DeltaNg]

To be honest, no, not in the uk.

What you are looking for is the equivalent of an IMC rating for helicopters, which I don't believe exists.

[Lima Oscar]

I've seen some IFR Bell 206 as well as AS350 and 355... You can find some Bell 407 and A119 too.

[Bravo73]

To be honest, no, not in the uk.


Certain 'private' operators in the London area are known to be happy to fly in IMC in R44s.

And I understand that lease operators in Yorkshire are happy to do the same in AS350s.


Ignorance is bliss, eh?

[Aucky]

No IFR allowed single engine in the UK, whether private or commercial. I heard that even in the IFR cert'd AS355 that Bristows train IR on, it all has to be flown VMC/Simulated!?! I will happily stand corrected...

You can (or could) in other parts of Europe as national deviations from JAA/EASA. Denmark for instance allow some flight in IMC, in IFR equipped single engined aircraft on a Danish reg, if not for commercial air transport...

[902Jon]

Do Bristow still use their SPIFR JetBox for IR's?

Unfortunately, Bristow closed the school at Norwich, and sold the Jetranger. This then lost the grandfather rights to single-engine IR training.
They bought a school at Staverton and renamed it part of the Bristow Academy.
Now training on AS355's.

[DeltaNg]

Can PPL(A) holders with an IMC rating fly IMC in single engine aircraft still?

[Hughes500]

think you will find the bright orange 500E based at Eastern Atlantic in the UK is the only IFR certified 500 its on the N reg !

[FSXPilot]

certified by whom? It's still not allowed to fly IFR in the UK.

[Ascend Charlie]

Come to Oz, we have several SPIFR B206 with glass screens, autopilot and they work very well.

[EN48]

In the U.S. for a helo certified for SPIFR in current production, you'd be looking at something like an EC135, A109, B429 etc. Starting point around $7 million U.S. There are a handful of B206's and B407's that were approved for IFR on a case by case basis many years ago, but AFAIK, these were not in series production, and the FAA is no longer granting these special approvals.

[Bravo73]

Oh, and plenty of AAC Gazelles fly around in IMC.

But I guess that they wouldn't fulfil the 'certified' criteria of the OP.

[PhlyingGuy]

Starting point for those aircraft are in the $5m US range, not $7m.

Now how much stuff you put on them... That's another story. You can gold plate 'em and get them up that high if you want to.

[Reely340]

"No IFR flying for single engine helis, private or commercial" sounds quite explicit, anyone got an EASA FCL.xxx link to such ruling?

[Reely340]

@AC: Come to Oz, we have several SPIFR B206 with glass screens, autopilot and they work very well. Aha! :D
Are you guys using them for commerical flights, too?
with paying passengers or yust long lining jettisonable cargo?

IMC flying with a helicopter sounds very uhm.. interesting:
riding in the basking sun when everybody else is below that white cloud blanket.

How does auto rotation emergency landing work in IMC? Not at all?:ooh:

[John Eacott]

Some older threads:

Helicopter SE IFR (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/19212-helicopter-se-ifr.html)

Approved single engine in IMC? (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/230868-approved-single-engine-imc.html)

JAA single engine IR(H) (http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/502414-jaa-single-engine-ir-h.html)

Reely340, IMC autos are (usually) taught regardless of whether you're SE or ME. Your comments indicate a certain lack of knowledge of Instrument Flying.

There was a Robinson R22 available some years ago for IR Training in Victoria, whether it is still around I'm not sure but it would have been....challenging!

[Aucky]

Interestingly Appendix*B*- EASA Airworthiness*Criteria*for*Helicopter*Instrument Flight (page 83 onwards) (http://www.easa.europa.eu/agency-measures/docs/agency-decisions/2012/2012-021-R/CS-27%20Amendment%203.pdf) doesn't mention the certification requirement for two engines...

[EN48]

How does auto rotation emergency landing work in IMC?


Same as in VMC. Helo doesn't know its in IMC. :E If the pilot is proficient in maintaining control in IMC, and the aircraft breaks out high enough to flare, a successul auto in IMC is doable if the terrain isn't too unforgiving. An auto can be a "by the numbers/instruments" maneuver until close to the ground. Havent yet attempted this is a helo but have done simulated engine failures in SE airplanes in IMC, which are quite doable. In recurrent (sim) training in the PC12 it was fairly common to get an engine failure in IMC and be expected to find an in-range airport and fly an ILS to minimums engine out. First time I was given this scenario, the instructor briefed it in advance, I said, "You're kidding, right?" Heart rate up there? Sure, but doable. Now and then an evil instructor would set the wx to 0/0. Still doable, but even higher heart rate! In a SE helo, no time to find an airport or fly an approach, but successful auto may be possible for an appropriately trained pilot.

[Reely340]

JE: "Reely340, IMC autos are (usually) taught regardless of whether you're SE or ME. Your comments indicate a certain lack of knowledge of Instrument Flying." *cough* that might stem from being only a freshman PPL, still finding an auto rotation landing a very cool maneuver, even more so when one can't see (let alone choose) the LZ when initiating one.
thx for the links I dive in tonight.

Peter.

[nigelh]

Bravo ... The " lease " operator in Yorkshire is still going strong after many years but is now operating an A109 so sadly ifr is a bit less contentious !!
All I need now is the little piece of paper to make it legal ...... Oh , and a type rating while I'm at it :ok: