How the Military and RAF are perceived by the general public

[NutLoose]

See

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/230255/MOD_external_opinion_survey_Spring_2013_top_lines.pdf


Makes some interesting reading. Especially pay and equipment.

[Wholigan]

I posted this link somewhere else and a mate said it destroyed his computer.

It didn't do anything to mine.

Anybody had any problems?

[blaireau]

Computer still OK, but confidence in public perception has taken a battering.

[Wander00]

After I left the Service I spent a couple of years in recruitment and career change counselling for service personnel (at the time of Options for Change). I tried to explain that most employers had little knowledge of service personnel, and probably neither they nor their parent had direct experience of the forces, other than from "Ain't 'alf hot Mum", "Get Fell In" and "The Navy Lark". I suspect Afghanistan and Iraq have changed that for the better.

[NutLoose]

Ahhhh Get Fell In :)

[Alber Ratman]

GET SOME IN Robert Lindsay...:)

[HEDP]

Relieved to see that the RAF are deemed separate from the military in the OP's headline, wouldn't want the two to be mixed up.......

[NutLoose]

Absolutely, one didn't want to mix them up with the rest of the rabble.

[seadrills]

19% of people questioned had never heard of the Foreign and commonwealth office ? Really ?

[Rigga]

None of those stats means anything without knowing what was expected or what was recorded before.
This snapshot is as useful as a 1/1500th second photo of a Formula 1 race. Extremely detailed, but shows nothing of value.
It simply does not show the starting or end positions or the trending of opinions.

[gijoe]

'Absolutely, one didn't want to mix them up with the rest of the rabble.'

You have got to be kidding??

Where does this unqualified arrogance come from?

Are you French?

G:)

[NutLoose]

Obviously humour is a alien word to you :)

[strake]

Possibly part of the problem is that unlike a number of other countries, the Great British Public have little or no exposure to military personnel. Apart from television, they wouldn't normally see people of any rank in uniform.
Contrast this with a visit I made yesterday to an air display in SW France. Lots of Growbags as expected but also numbers of uniformed ranks and officers (including a General) mingling and talking with the crowds. It was an excellent opportunity to see them in their environment, displaying military courtesy to one another as they went about their business.
Much the same in the USA. If you live in Washington or near a military base, your commute will be with uniformed personnel.

PS Hope nobody minds a slight drift ref the airshow, most impressive with various Mirage, Alpha variants but the highlight had to be Rafale. I like this video taken at sunset. I think it shows form and function at its best Rafale - solo demo - Sanicole Sunset Airshow - YouTube

[Wander00]

Strake - thanks - impressive display by an impressive aeroplane - and yes, the atmosphere with the French military at their shows is subtly different from UK

[Shack37]

Contrast this with a visit I made yesterday to an air display in SW France. Lots of Growbags as expected but also numbers of uniformed ranks and officers.


Sad but true. In the good old days we always had at least one aircrew and one groundcrew by the static display to chat with passers by. In a quiet period we could also do them a cuppa and sandwich from the galley;)

[Courtney Mil]

Stunning video, Strake. Thanks. :ok:

[SOSL]

Fantastic Video Strake.. thanks for that.

I agree with Rigga. These are meaningless numbers without context.

Statistics is a scientific discipline, in the same way that physics, chemistry, astronomy and so forth are.

When I read, listen to, or watch something in the popular media about, say, high energy particle physics, I am interested and I get a feeling of being informed. Actually, all I am getting is the author/producer's take on some more or less relevant, public domain information.

It doesn't mean I have any idea about that particular scientific discipline.

In the same way, when I encounter so called statistics in the media, all I am getting is someone else's take on a bunch of numbers.

Like the majority of the public I know nothing of the science of statistics and so how could those numbers tell me anything?

Rgds SOS

[Tankertrashnav]

strake makes a very good point - we are still, in this country, suffering from a hangover from the days of the "troubles" when wearing uniform in public was actively discouraged for security reasons. Uniformed servicemen are still an uncommon site on our streets, this is a shame, as you only have to see how many people will turn out for a homecoming parade when troops return from service in Afganistan - they can't all be wives and kids.

Do something about it and wear your uniform with pride off base as often as possible, but please make sure whatever form it takes that it's clean, well pressed, and not half-heartedly covered up by a civvy coat or anorak, as I've seen all too often.

[gr4techie]

When I go home on leave I find after driving more than a few miles away from a unit. There is no sight or no mention of the armed forces. It is like we live in a parallel universe where the RAF doesn't exist back home. A work colleague once said "I bet they don't even realise we are at war (in Afghanistan)".

[gijoe]

LooseNuts wrote;

'Obviously humour is aN alien word to you'

...and obviously proper England isn't your first language...

Anyway, good vid.

Uniform on the Streets?

Agreed but pride isn't going to stop madmen holding machetes and talking to videophones about how their brothers are being hurt every day - I fear there will be more.

G:*

[Phil_R]

Part of the problem is the media.

I work in the entertainment industry and, recognising the problem outlined in this thread, have several times tried to get military-themed productions going - the sort of thing that the Americans, for all their faults as media producers, are extremely good at. It has been difficult not because there's any particular bias against depicting the military, because as the cited survey demonstrates, there's actually quite decent knowledge and understanding of the armed forces (if you consider the figures low, think about how low they are for genuinely unexciting things).

The problem is that serial drama is fairly expensive to produce, especially when you're proposing to pursue a military theme and it's likely to be at least something of an action movie (nobody's going to make a TV show about the RAF and never show flying). And yes, there is some fairly small amount of political correctness going on, which is probably why Bluestone 42 got made - it was a comedy, which is seen as a vehicle for responsible social comment in a way that drama often isn't.

Anyway, given the massive media presence of the army due to Afghanistan it'd be very nice to see some more of the RAF and in my experience they have always been very willing to support the media where possible. I'm still hoping.

On the other hand, no matter how hard we tried, pprune would slag it off... :)

[diginagain]

The RAF Regiment seem to have significant comedic value in their own right.

[goudie]

Kipling was, perhaps, right.

'It's Tommy this and Tommy that'

[gijoe]

'The RAF Regiment seem to have significant comedic value in their own right.'

:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Phil,

You make some good points but let's have a look at the task in hand in Afg.

It ain't all drama and you luvvies love your drama.

Boots on the ground etc, win wars. Bust.

Getting people there on airliners is not interesting - it is dull, mind-numbingly so - but the team do a good job with an elderly frame.

MERTs, Merlins are fantastic but I guess there is only so many times you can film a casualty pickup and and a RiP (Troop Change).

That is why our man, Gwant, wants to go out on patrols, hear rounds pinging over his head, and hear bombs dropping - that makes good tv, and we like it because it is good for recruiting.

More RAF - maybe.

More Army - maybe.

More Navy - had their fair share of media coverage.

iPod anyone?

G:}

[rab-k]

How the Military are perceived by the public depends very much upon how the media portray them.

Saturday's behaviour by certain individuals in uniform joining Rangers fans in singing sectarian songs at Ibrox has gone relatively unreported.

Armed Forces Day at Ibrox ends with British soldiers joining in with hate filled Sectarian chants - YouTube

Only one commentator has picked up on the 'story' - mostly for the lack of coverage it received in the press...

Will mainstream media report on sectarian singing by British troops? (http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/sep/29/rangers-military)


Edit: Spoke too soon...

BBC News - Police probe 'concerns' over Rangers' Armed Forces Day (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-24333517)

[Tankertrashnav]

The RAF Regiment seem to have significant comedic value in their own right.


diginagain and gijoe - Some detail required for explanation :confused:

More importantly - that clip from the Rangers game. I couldn't make out the words of the chants/songs, but if the reports are right and this was sectarian chanting of the type that's corroded Scottish football for the past century and more, then it should be a huge bollocking at the least for all who participated, plus a hat on, standing to attention interview at the very highest level for the officer or NCO i/c on the day, and possibly an invitation to consider his future career in the military. As I say, not 100% sure what was going on there, but if it is as reported then I have to agree with the You Tube commentator who called it a "vile spectacle".

[Fire 'n' Forget]

Rab-k

Since this thread is about perception I would say the troops are being supported rather well in the clip. Yes the crowd may be partizan from a side but I do not hear anything particularly worrying.

However as an Arsenal supporter when I was attending another Armed Forces day I have been the most disgusted I have ever been. The fans from the other side of the city were absolutely vile to a man (and woman). Chanting "Murderous B*****s" and songs of "Argentina" towards the marines etc was spine tingly horrifying.

BzHSr2-QFlo

I know what sort of perception and also what sort of reception I would rather receive :D

I also remember reading about a shockingly bad display again giving a completely negative perception and totally unsupporting of the armed forces


Celtic apologise for fans' 'bloodstained' poppy protest | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1327712/Celtic-apologise-fans-bloodstained-poppy-protest.html)

I think the clip you linked shows nothing but support and the troops do nothing wrong apart from over exuberance maybe. I was actually quite pleased with the reception the troops received and should be replicated around more arena's.

[gijoe]

'diginagain and gijoe - Some detail required for explanation'

Every Rockchimp I have ever met has said one of the following:

1. 'I hate aeroplanes - noisy 'orrible things.'

2. 'My Pre-Para was much harder than P Coy - all the lads at 2 Para said so...2 Para RAF Regt that is.'

or my favourite,

3. There are the big 3 - H, Poole and....yup...you guessed it...the RAF Regt.

Comedy at it's purest - need any more?

G:ok:

[Tankertrashnav]

No thanks - heard them all (and a lot more), 45 years ago when I was a rock.

Then I became a nav and learned a whole new repertoire of pilot/nav jokes ;)

[NutLoose]

"Get some in" managed to portray the RAF without any nasty horrible Aeroplanes in sight..

It would be nice to see something back along those lines, though for those of you still treasuring your old No2 jacket anywhere, Thunderbirds is being remade :)

[diginagain]

Ah, TTN, the Short Range Desert Group are legends among the military. Equipped with vehicles, weapons and sunglasses that the regular soldiery can only dream-of, the heroes of FP (Facility Protection - motto "The EFI Won't Guard Itself, You Know.") - never fail to impress with their use of social media to spread the word of their exploits, although they seem rather reticent to mention burned-out aircraft, and the 5.56mm bullet-holes in a set of Osprey.........

[gijoe]

Dig,

Don't you mean BSN and the self-inflicted 5.56 holes?

Anyway, 2 USMC sacked for that in the news today.

I think we have said enough...until next time.

TTN - you made the right move!

G:ok:

[Martin the Martian]

NutLoose "Get some in" managed to portray the RAF without any nasty horrible Aeroplanes in sight..

Not quite. I remember one episode where the flight received an air experience trip in a Beverley (lots of stock footage), the joke being that the corporal hid very well his fear of flying and was planning other things until the pilot said to him something along the lines of "nonsense corporal, you deserve a treat as well."

Cue one terrified corporal for the flight with the recruits trying not to find it funny.

[Wrathmonk]

and the 5.56mm bullet-holes in a set of Osprey

Read this over on the Army site some time ago - any "open source" evidence to support this or was it more Army v RAF Regt 'banter' (probably by some never-served "second on the balcony" type which seems to have taken over that site of late;))

[diginagain]

Read this over on the Army site some time ago - any "open source" evidence to support this or was it more Army v RAF Regt 'banter' (probably by some never-served "second on the balcony" type which seems to have taken over that site of late)Having quizzed a member of that august body who happens to be wedded to my niece, its veracity is beyond doubt.

[Wrathmonk]

its veracity is beyond doubt

Ouch (no pun intended!). :*

[Pontius Navigator]

Looking at the figures I admit to being impressed with how high they were and how accurately they mirror what I perceive to be the opinions of Ppruners in this section viz-a-viz equipment, pay, the Services and the MOD.

About 9-10 years ago at a media seminar the same things were quoted with the Armed Services being good and the MOD bad. As for the media jumping on the outrage bus, that is SOP as it sells papers.

Best is officers misbehaving, second best is the licentious and brutal soldiery.

[blaireau]

Off thread, but "wild friendly" shooting brings to mind my time in Sri Lanka. The Tigers attacked the assembled aircraft at about 0300LT, having hit the Mirages and choppers on the north side of the runway. After it was all over, 2 A340's and 1 A330 had been destroyed by satchel bombs. A further 2 aircraft (A320's) were destroyed by wildly aimed rifle fire from the army.

[diginagain]

Off thread, but "wild friendly" shooting brings to mind my time in Sri Lanka. The Tigers attacked the assembled aircraft at about 0300LT, having hit the Mirages and choppers on the north side of the runway. After it was all over, 2 A340's and 1 A330 had been destroyed by satchel bombs. A further 2 aircraft (A320's) were destroyed by wildly aimed rifle fire from the army. You're not suggesting that the people who guard our military airfields are as professional as the Sri Lankan army, are you?

[OutlawPete]

Whilst off the main topic of the thread, for whats it's worth in recent years I have seen a general shift of opinion amongst some potential employers of ex servicemen. It was once percieved that we are/were hard working, loyal and highly trained and in many cases that is still true.

The recent shift seems to reflect that many "chase the money" when they leave a service, jumping from job to job and showing no real advantage over civilian counterparts. And, in general, nothing wrong with looking after ones self, but (rightly or wrongly) this has had a damaging effect on how ex servicemen are viewed as likely job candidates.

[diginagain]

OutlawPete; could it be more a case that, historically, employers might have had greater exposure to Service life themselves, compared to the current generation?

The habit of moving from job to job isn't unusual, in fact the days days of settling into one job for the rest of your working life have long been consigned to history for most, and the ability to adapt to new jobs is a trait quite familiar to Service personnel.

[OutlawPete]

Diginagain, I find myself in complete agreement with you. The idea of staying with one employer for a whole career is to most, a strange concept these days. The attitude I refer to in my previous post is one which I have observed, not necessarily agree with.

One thing though, many ex forces employees stay put for a few years at least but there is an increasing number who are bouncing about jobs anywhere between 6 weeks and 18 months striving for more pay. Like I said, far be it from me to suggest it's wrong, but it is taking the shine off employing a service leaver at least until he/she has been out for a few years.

[Rigga]

Since leaving the mob:
1st job - 5yrs,
2nd - 2,
3rd - 2...looked like I was being a gypsy so...
4th job - 4 yrs.....now on
5th job.

Short hops makes many companies unhappy to hire you.