Italian Tornado at TTTE - Wheels Up "Incident"

[BillHicksRules]

Can anyone confirm or deny the following story?

A group of Italian Starfighter pilots are converting to the Tonka.

First flight of the day is Senior Pilot from detachment.

End of Runway, full take-off power, releases brakes and off.

Halfway down runway, wheels up, belly/runway interface(:}). Afterburner engaged, aileron frantically flapping(!!!) as pilot tries in vain to still carry out the take-off.

End result - large ditch along centre of runway.

Pilot's "excuse" was that in the Starfighter the wheels would not retract whilst on the ground but the Tonka did not have this feature. In Italy the Starfighter pilots had been trained to select Wheels up before rotating so as to reduce workload on the climbout.

This story was told to me by a BAe Engineer who apparently witnessed the whole thing from the tower.

Would love to know if this is real or not

[AGS Man]

During my time at Cottesmore (1981-85) it happened 3 times. The first was at Coningsby, aircraft B08 flown by an Itallian Pilot with a German Nav. Aircraft G27 was next with an all German crew and Aircraft I40 (which was a jinxed aircraft) was possibly the one your friend saw. I believe it's partly to do with the gear doors providing lift and if the gear is raised too early it can result in ploughing said furrow in runway. We did suggest a mod, fitting 4 castor wheels to the belly but this was met with stony faces!

[Wensleydale]

We did suggest a mod, fitting 4 castor wheels to the belly but this was met with stony faces


Off their Trollies?

[4mastacker]

I40 was the one during my time at TTTE.

[SCAFITE]

Snap I was also at Cottesmore at the same time, I think they had a party in the NAAFI when the thing was finally fixed, but it spent ages being robbed for spares.

There was once a story that one of the Italians was swinging off one of the parts, only to be confronted by an RAF techie who stated you cannot do that.

The Italian reply was well it's a already F**ked

[AGS Man]

As I remember I 40 was the first Itallian Tornado on TTTE. There is a story that a pair of hands were painted on the inside of the airbrakes not long after it arrived so it could surrender properly!
I 40 also tipped up on it's tail after rolling back off the RHAG and after they stopped making an approach end RHAG engagement mandatory for a nose wheel steering warning which 99 times out of 100 was a faulty switch guess what I 40 did? Went off the runway as the nose wheel steering was faulty. I believe after it's return to Italy it crashed!

[BillHicksRules]

Cheers folks.

Thanks for the confirmation.

[dan eccles]

The crew of I40 had preselected gear up and bounced.The gear worked as advertised and resulted in the aircraft ground interface problem.I also remember when the aircraft was raised,seeing SATCO trying to catch the hyd oil with his hat.

[NutLoose]

I also remember when the aircraft was raised,seeing SATCO trying to catch the hyd oil with his hat.

I bet that was funny to see, I once watched a Flight Sergeant ( after a full Bowser had ripped open the tank on a HAS door locking bar ) attempt to stem the flow by holding a sandbag into it, he must have thought he was the little Dutch boy, though he had as much luck as the guys trying to stem the flow into the Titanic had.

How I chortled... out of sight of course :p

[BigX]

Rotate at the appropriate speed and you have to be something special (needs) not to get the Fin airborne on 2 engines, whether back in the 80s with Mk 101s or now in the 2010s with 103s. A clean fit GR1 wanted to fly (not to be mistaken with something like 1Ft14 fit at AAS or any where else in high density altitudes), and was as forgiving as a Hawk. As an ab-initio, all you had was an extra lever (for the sweep) to worry about, so getting it right wasn't rocket science. The cases discussed here are ones of extreme mishandling, and/or of the pilot being a 'Rip****', trying too hard to be clever. No other excuse. :suspect:

[Just This Once...]

I seem to remember Egon was the nav on one of the Cottesmore wheels-up take-offs. He said he alternated languages to capture the full range of swear-words as they whistled down the runway.

When parked on the runway he thought it was amusing that they went to the effort to bring steps to the aircraft. When I asked him what he did afterwards he said he went to pick up a new car, which didn't impress the med centre who stayed open awaiting his return for a post-accident check-up.

[glad rag]

We thick groundcrew on Rects Sqdn did suggest shoulder pylons after the first time round but were told it wouldn't happen again by our "betters"

LARF we did.

[Just This Once...]

Shoulders would have made a bigger set of groves in the runway! For the least amount of damage all-round the big tanks are best; well, apart from using the carefully designed wheels.

:ok:

[OvertHawk]

Heard a rumour that the only injuries in the incident with the Italian Pilot and the German Nav' were sustained, after exiting the aircraft, by the Italian as a result of the German beating him over the head with his helmet - may not be true but since when should that get in the way of a good story!:E

[Rhino power]

well, apart from using the carefully designed wheels.

Priceless! :)

-RP

[enginesuck]

TTTE was my first tour as a liney, I remember some of the Italian students being quite intimidated by some of the instructors. During one see off the instructor - I think his name was Gordon Reikie ??? Said on the intercom " I wouldn't bother going back in the crew room chief as well be back in five minute if this c*** doesn't get his act together " I saw tears from the students eyes. Different time I suppose. Busy flight line

[Lima Juliet]

There was a twin-stick GR4 that did a roller landing at Waddington about 5-10 years ago on its CBLS with practice bombs on. Both the pilots (note this was a QFI check) noticed that they were a bit lower than normal and heared a scraping noise - apparently the view of the sparks from the tower were quite impressive!

For some unknown reason they decided to go back and land at Marham having left a few items off the CBLS at Waddington :eek:. I would have thought landing at Waddington would have been a better bet rather than risk bits falling off across half of Lincolnshire and Norfolk, but I guess they had their reasons.

Still, no significant damage to the jet and they lived to tell the tale.:ok:

LJ

[flipflopman RB199]

LJ,

I remember watching that coming in on finals as I was driving off camp and thinking how strange it was that the gear was still up! It would have been sometime in 2003 - early 2004 as we were detached there with the F3OEU while Coningsby's runway was being resurfaced. :ok:

[NutLoose]

I believe they trialled the Tornado main gear at Cranfield, they were strapped to the side of a big water tanker that was ballasted to the weight of a Tornado and off it screamed down the runway, at a set point gas blew the struts down lifting the tankers wheels off the runway.. What the driver thought wasn't recorded.

[Onceapilot]

BHR. Tornado has no ailerons mate:ouch:.

OAP

[Rhino power]

Its been posted on here before i think but, worth another look...
RAF Tornado Near Miss on Landing! - YouTube

-RP

[peppermint_jam]

LJ!

I remember it well, was on the guilty Sqn at the time!

Fast forward to the Christmas dinner and one of the Lineys placed some after eight mints on the pilots plate (Aussie exchange Sqn Ldr if memory serves) and said
"That's what 3 greens look like D**khead!

[Jobza Guddun]

PJ,

Also remember that night well, I was the line NCO on the see-in. QFI told me he thought they might have scraped the runway at Waddo and I should have a look at the jet. CBLS were both ground nearly flat! They were very lucky, think the Aussie may have let the jet sink back onto the runway following gear up from the roller? :ouch:

[glad rag]

Final months of "the" OCU at Leu a ladee managed to bang the back end go round with one eng at rev and land normally. Saw it in the cct over the Eden, nothing to write home about at all.

Ah, the blessed fin. :{

[AdLib]

The wheels may have been carefully designed, but the brakes bl00dy weren't.

[The Helpful Stacker]

.....but the brakes bl00dy weren'

Isn't that why they put buckets behinds the blowy hot bits?

[E-Spy]

A similar effect can be achieved on a touch and go by selecting 'gear up' whilst the engines are still lagging behind.

It is a strange sight when ATC ask you to visually inspect another aircraft and you see flattened shoulder pylons and tank fins, especially when they haven't told you what happened!

[valkman]

Gentlemen,


I was at Cottersmore at the time of the Italians land speed record attempt and sent to "power it up" to find the electrical fault in the undercarriage system.


The plane was placed in the Battle of Britain Hanger, jacked and slowly we started to set breakers.. The lower skin was so thin it was like tin foil. Once we had some power on her and the hydraulics applied, the gear worked perfect coming down...But, as the doors closed..now half worn away, the donkey d**k bar which holds the doors open, made contact and the door just cracked like a bomb going off...


Am interested to find other that were there and complete the story.


After we had checked everything, removed the gear selector switch and has it x-rayed by the medical department, it was the Sunday..


The officer in charge stated.." Sunday, a good day for a good Italian Catholic to confess!" To which the offending Italian did admit he pre-selected!

[BEagle]

Fast forward to the Christmas dinner and one of the Lineys placed some after eight mints on the pilots plate (Aussie exchange Sqn Ldr if memory serves) and said
"That's what 3 greens look like D**khead!


I trust the insolent airmen was charged? He damn well should have been!

[Roadster280]

I trust the insolent airmen was charged? He damn well should have been!

Indeed so.

Imagine the scene at the CM, having refused CO's award for such a bull**** charge.

"Sqn Ldr Tufty, Cpl Unworthy states that he called you a "********" because, despite knowing you had scraped the runway at Waddington, you elected to fly to Marham with unknown damage. This in a training sortie, not an operational task. Is there any truth to this?"

"Yes Sir".

"We find the case proven, but cannot help but agree with the defendant's viewpoint. Fined one pound. March out".

Damned well ought to be the outcome.

[Once A Brat]

Leon,

I remember that night well! I was the JEngO and was in Ops chewing the fat with our Auth (who was the Sqn XO and also covering DCF) about the following day's flypro when I took the phone call:

"Waddo SATCO here, one of your Tonkas has just bombed my runway!"

"How do you know?"

"Theres bits of 3Kg practice bomb everywhere"

At this point, I handed the phone to the Sqn Ldr and left him to it, especially it was another Sqn.......

[oldmansquipper]

I recall, from my time on the worlds most prestigious and longest serving fixed wing reconnaissance squadron, that the Jaguar had a secondary landing gear fitted to its single seaters shortly after the late, great, Bill L********* chose to test out the wheeless short landing capabilities of the T bird.:O

Probably the only times when using re-heat to taxi was justified..... ;)

See:

Oops! (http://www.twosqnassoc.co.uk/pages/Jag/Pages/Oops!.htm)

The SENGOs Shoes (http://www.twosqnassoc.co.uk/pages/Jag/Pages/The%20Sengos%20Shoes.htm)

Ya gotta laugh:ok:

[peppermint_jam]

Sorry BEagle, he wasn't charged. I believe the pilot showed a sense of humour and bought the liney a pint......

[just another jocky]

For some unknown reason they decided to go back and land at Marham having left a few items off the CBLS at Waddington http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif. I would have thought landing at Waddington would have been a better bet rather than risk bits falling off across half of Lincolnshire and Norfolk, but I guess they had their reasons.



Having deposited an unkown amount of debris, possibly some of it armed (yes, even a 3kg had a little bit of explosive in it) and potentially damaged the runway, I think the last place I would want to land would be that same runway. Presumably Coningsby was closed so Marham was the nearest option. :confused:

Although my 3-year tour on TTTE was after the incident in the OP, I recall that all the talk at the time was that he was an ex-F104 driver and therefore was drilled to raise the gear before rotate.

The Tornado does have a weight-on-wheels system which should prevent the gear raising whilst there is weight on the wheels, but as some of us have found out to our cost, there comes a certain point in the take-off roll when there is sufficient speed to generate enough lift, prior to actual take-off, to render the WoW switch inoperative. :uhoh:

[Pontius Navigator]

Heard a rumour that the only injuries in the incident with the Italian Pilot and the German Nav' were sustained, after exiting the aircraft, by the Italian as a result of the German beating him over the head with his helmet - may not be true but since when should that get in the way of a good story!:E

The question I asked at the time was 'in what language' was the immediate debrief.

Apparently it was English!

[PhantomAviator]

When first posted to TTTE in 82 for Tornado course. Whilst on the course there was an incident at Coningsby. Their runway having just reopened after refurb. An Italian learner did a perfect landing with no gear down. Needless to say Coningsby CO was not pleased.The learner had a quick exit back to Italy. Also the rumour of the painted hands is true. There was also another incident when a Sqn Ldr left a message for one of the Italian jocks. It was something about there being no reverse in this type of transport if he felt he was on the losing team
.