ATPL or CPL/IR

[avrodamo]

I'm at the just getting started stage. Ive just passed my PPL and i'm now looking at doing a modular style course for commercial.What i would like to know is what is the difference between a CPL/IR and an ATPL. You can fly commercially on both so what is the difference ??????

[Artificial Horizon]

You can't be pilot in command of a Public Transport aircraft with just a CPL, so if you want those captains wages and high rolling lifestyle :) then you will need the ATPL

[HomerSimpson]

Avrodamo,

The difference between the CPL and ATPL....
Well, if you want to work for the airlines like Artificial Horizon said you'll need an ATPL to get a command.

It all first starts with the PPL if you're going modular, then enough hours to sit the CPL or ATPL theory exams. The difference being for instructors and airlines. If your ultimate goal is the airlines which most is, you are better off doing the ATPL theory exams. However, there are no schools offering the JAR CPL theory anyway (at the present time).

Once you have done the theory exams you can progress and do the CPL course then the multi IR. You will then have a frozen ATPL, CPL/IR. Once you get to 1500 hours you can unfreeze the licence. However, you can happily work for an airline with your CPL/IR (if you can get a job). You can add Performace A too plus either an instructors rating or an MCC.

I hope that the information has been helpful, good luck and I hope you get a job soon after your training.

Homer ;)

------------------
Duff, Duff, that Wonderful stuff. Ummmmm Doughnuts

[DB6]

You get a CPL/IR on the way to your ATPL. You can't have an ATPL until you've got 1500 hours so what happens is you do the ground exams for the ATPL, do the CPL and IR flight tests and then get what is known as a frozen ATPL i.e. it's not an ATPL until you've got 1500 hours. Basically. Lots of F/Os have CPL/IRs so that'll get you a job OK.

[EGCC4284]

I think you get a frozen ATPL at 200 hour's which allows you to fly as First Officer and then unfreeze it when you get to 1500 hours.

I could be wrong but the way I'm doing it is:

Get Class 1 medical from Gatwick,

PPL,

Build to about 110 hours,

Start distance course for ATPL's which I've just started with Bristol Ground School,

Hopefully within a year to have passed all 14 exams, while still flying whenever I can,

Complete a CPL course which I think will take about 4-5 weeks,

Complete an IR (multi) which I think will take about another 4-5 weeks,

Hopefully by the time you complete your
CPL/IR multi, you'll have 200 hours which enables you to apply for a frozen licence.

If I'm wrong, please somebody let me know.

To Trampus & Kiltie

I know I can't spell, and you're right, I am going to get my wife to proof read all my applications. Do you think not being able to spell will prevent me from being successful in becoming a professional pilot?

PS No offence taken.
------------------
A BIT EXTRA FOR MUM.

[This message has been edited by EGCC4284 (edited 14 January 2001).]

[Trampus]

Have they stopped teaching English at school these days?

[Kiltie]

AH your posting is not entirely correct. You CAN be PIC of a public transport aircraft with a CPL, but it must not be heavier than 5700kg, which is where the ATPL requirement comes in.

EGCC 4284 I am not trying to sound patronising but the grammar of your posting is appalling. I would strongly advise you not to apply for any jobs once you obtain your licence without having had your letters proof-read by a friend. No offence meant, just good advice!!

[Skyjob]

EGCC, You're also not correct in saying that you need 200 hours for a CPL. I've finished a course with 161,4 hours and received a frozen ATPL and like me many others.

[EGCC4284]

To Trampus and Kiltie

Please read my edited post.

------------------
A BIT EXTRA FOR MUM.

[TooHotToFly]

Good on you EGCC - I like a man who's clever enough to realise when people are just trying to be helpful, unlike others on this forum who seem to take everything as a personal dig at them.

[EGCC4284]

THANKS

------------------
A BIT EXTRA FOR MUM.

[TheNavigator]

Let´s see if I got it right!

You can't do the CPL Skills Test before the ATPL exams as there are no schools that offer the CPL Theory training right?

Is there any substancial diference on the ATPL and CPL theory programs? If you could do the CPL theory do you get exemption is some parts of the ATPL theory? I guess that doing the CPL module first would allow you to get some money from flying a bit earlier!!! Just a thought!

Cheers!

José

[AffirmBrest]

ATPL exams are harder (natch).

You CAN fly as P1 of a PT a/c more than 5.7T (just not as Captain/commander) with a Frozen ATPL. The slight difference comes about when you start looking at multi-crew aircraft.

PS You actually need MORE than 1500hrs if you want to convert your CPL/IR (FrATPL) to an ATPL, if the flying you have been doing is as an F/O or similar, since the hours 'P1 under supervision' are weighted by a small factor (I forget what it is(.

[AirScream]

4 forces now offer JAA CPL

[Noggin]

Lots of wonderful definitions of a frozen ATPL. There is of course no such thing, and nothing to be unfrozen. You have met some of the requirements for an ATPL, but not all. When you finally meet all of the requirements, then you can apply and pay the going rate for the licence. About the only thing that can be regarded as frozen is the credit for the ground examinations.

[AirScream]

The Credit for the ATPL ground exams lasts 3 years right?? From first or last pass?

What about if you only get the CPL done within that time and not the IR?? I suppose that you end up with just a CPL limiting you to aircraft under 5700kg?


Loads of questions I know but are there any good links to the regs available.

By the way booked the Class 1 today. Here we go..................

[TooHotToFly]

Airscream - The jaa website has JAR-FCL 1 online. Its only parts of it but it's actually quite useful because it weeds out all the junk inbetween the actual requirements. Check out http://www.jaa.nl/jar/jar/toc0577.htm

[Noggin]

The validity period for JAR-FCL professional exams was 36 months from passing the first subject. I gather this has recently changed to 36 months from passing the last exam, that should give people a little more leeway to complete both CPL and IR.
The CPL does not limit you to 5700 Kg but it does limit you to single pilot types.

If you go outside the 36 months and have not completed the IR you will have to resit the exams. What is not clear is which ones you will have to resit. Could it be just the IR examinations? Nobody knows!

[Boomer]

Once you have your CPL/IR issued with all the ATPL exams passed they are valid indefinitely as long as you hold a valid Instrument Rating. So you have as long as you like to get your 1500hrs, however the latest date for the issue of a national ATPL will be the 30th June 2002.

[expedite_climb]

If I was an airline looking to recruit First Officers, I would stipulate an ATPL as an entry requirement. The reason for this is that you are seen as an investment to them, they are going to spend a lot of money on you, and want to get the best return on their investment.

This, in my experience is the norm in the real world. Years ago when you HAD to do the CPL first the situation was different.

So, if you want to fly for an Airline at any point, do the ATPL, it's not much of a step from the CPL.

[Noggin]

Under JAR-FCL you cannot get an ATPL unless you have 500 hours as a first officer. I guess you would run out of candidates quite quickly.

[Base leg]

There is no JAA 'Performance A' exam.There is only one Performance Exam which includes Single Engine Piston, Multi Engine Piston, and Medium Range Jet Transport (which has some but not all of the old type Perf A questions.)
Passed it at 79% !


[This message has been edited by Base leg (edited 19 January 2001).]

[Noggin]

The Performance exam required by the JAA will be set by the TRTO where you complete your type rating. The exam will reflect the actual aeroplane you intend to operate. Slightly more relevant that doing Tristar performance.