A320 type rating in the US

[DM777]

Been looking at few places in the US for a 320 rating, have googled it and searched here on PPRUNE but not seeing many aussies that have gone there.

I am looking for any kind of feedback on the following:

Flight training international, Miami or Denver

Aerostar, Miami or Orlando

Pan Am, Miami I think

Or any other ones you would recommend or avoid at all costs.

The prices seem to be fairly similar but wanted to hear from anyone that has been to any of the above, you can PM me if you want.

DM777

[insert_name]

I did mine at US Airways contract training.
They were fantastic. Not just a sim school but an operator of over 300 A319-320-321's.

Not my first jet type rating but by far the best!

You can find them on google or I can give you contact details.

Cheers

[Roj approved]

g'day,

I did mine at Aerostar in Orlando, great instructors, great equipment, great fun. look them up on Facebook or google them. They can sort out your accommodation also.

They send all the CBT and an interactive program of the cockpit, like a working Fixed base sim. you have to complete all the CBT before you arrive.

the course is 3 days ground school, then 2 Fixed base and 6 sims (from memory). The SIM's are all the latest LCD screens with the latest updates, so you can do RNAV, probably RNP by now.

Things to consider:

SIM buddy: if you don't have one, they will find you one. But, you may end up with a mismatch of experience/skill (think 200 brand new CPL guys/girls, English is there 2nd). You can do it with one of their support pilots, but you will then only do 2 hours per session, so you have had less exposure.

Engine types: they have the IAE V2500, if you are going to work for an operator with different engines it'll be up to you to learn those procedures.

Airbus SOP: Every airline says they are doing Airbus SOP, but from my experience, it is a fair bit different. Again, up to you to do the work.

CASA validation: IIRC they quote 8 weeks to put it on your licence, so you need to wait till you've got it on your license before you can start you training, 8 weeks is a long time!!

Extra SIMs: Seriously consider an extra SIM or 2, after all, its cheaper, so if you spend more you'll learn more. If you have any info from your new employer, or can get some of the SIM profiles and do these while you are there. Dual Hyd, Smoke or anything that involves flight law downgrade. It's a funny aeroplane, the more you see the better off in the long run.

If you have a job, and the operator has a preference, you might find it may be better to do it their way. Their provider will train you much closer to their SOP than a Airbus school. It is a lot of work to play catch up when you get back.

Pan Am in Miami only has a Cat C sim, so can't do Zero flight time sim, so you will need to find a Cat D sim or your employer will have to do it. (which they are usually don't want to do)

Make sure they are a CASA approved school, otherwise it'll be a nightmare to convert. If you have a FAA license, you can then convert that way. The other hurdle is the TSA. Because you want to learn to fly something, they want to make sure you aren't going to fly into a building, so it requires fingerprints, background checks etc. This all takes time and money, about $800 and 4 weeks from memory.

Otherwise, there was a Hooters next to my hotel!:cool:

[TexanPilot]

I'm currently going through the type rating with Aerostar on the level C.

PM me for more details if you like.

[Masagemarad]

Go with USAirways in Charlotte They have good equipment/Instructors there I did my A330 with them or PanAmI did the B727 and B737 there in Miami Stay the hell away from Aerostar they are bunch of jerk offs, they do not own there simulators they have boot leg courseware copied from around other training centers and they cant even look you straight in the eye. Good luck.

[DM777]

Thanks for your posts boys and girls, 900+ views tells me there are a few people out there looking around, but the mixed opinions are going to make the choice a bit harder.

Anyone remember the approx price at USAirways in Charlotte ?

DM777

[DM777]

Anyone been to HPA (Higher Power Aviation) in Dallas to do their A320 rating?

[ANCIENT]

I recommend anyone wanting to do type rating O/S check with CASA before setting out. Move afoot to only accept a course conducted by Airbus or major airline.
None Airbus approved courses can have big gaps in what is taught.
Would be a big disappointment to spend time and money then find CASA say course not acceptable.

[flyboy_nz]

Any updates?

So, which training centres in the U.S. are approved by CASA?

Also, what's the difference in getting a PIC rating or a Co-pilot rating in regards to scoring a job in Asia?

Thanks

[TexanPilot]

CASA except a type rating from USA as long as it's FAA approved. Mine got put on my licence easily. I just sent all the training records to CASA and paid the fee.

As far as jobs in Asia I think most of them look for time on type but I could be wrong.

[oicur12.again]

FTI are ok.

Theres also K n S in PHX that use the America Wes.......excuse me, I mean USAir sims. Sophie Sturgis is the contact there. Pretty good outfit, all America Wes.......I mean USAir line pilots and trainers that conduct the training.

[Capt Under Pants]

I did mine at Aerosim. You do your sims with Jet Blue and all is the one place (Orlando) unlike Aerostar where you have to fly somewhere else to do the sims. I went with them because I found out several people at Tiger and those at Skywest go there. Aerostar's courseware is borrowed from Aerosim.

No worries getting it on the licence with CASA as well.

Aerosim give you heaps of VPTs and I felt more than prepared. You end up doing 8 sims in total (6 as PF/PM and 2 of them solely as PM for your sim buddy for their pre-check and check ride). The test is a non event as you are fully prepared for it.

From talking to a lot of people seems well better than anything you get here in Oz. Is 15K where here is around 30k. I looked at US Airways and they were $11,500 if you had a sim buddy or 15K solo. They never got back to me in time and ended up going with Aerosim. No regrets.

Cheers :ok:

[pilotchute]

To the guy who said to me,

"When you add up the hotel and airfares, doing an A320 endorsement in the USA is the same price as doing it in Australia"

Well I'm paying for 2 return tickets to Miami (only one of us doing the rating though) and all up with Airfares, car rental and accommodation for 28 days the bill in Aussie Dollars is $18,136. That includes $1500 dollars for food and petrol for 28 days.

So can someone please tell me how Ansett can justify $34k for the initial A320 long course????

Exactly how much more can they teach you at Ansett Sim Centre? I could pay for 4 extra hours in the sim in Miami and do the extra scenario's that Ansett teach if I knew what they were and it might cost me $2000 more tops.

[morno]

How on earth is it only costing you that much? Does that include TSA clearance? Student Visa's?

And which school is that through?

[pilotchute]

Thats with Pan Am. $10,500 AUD for the on site ground school option. Course duration around 21 days give or take a day.

Oh I forgot about the TSA thing. Thats $150 AUD. No student visa required if you qualify for the VOA scheme.

[morno]

Ewwww, I wouldn't touch PanAm with a 5,000ft barge pole from what I've been told about the place.

Good luck.

morno

[VH-Cheer Up]

A rating is a rating, is it not?

[Capt Fathom]

A rating is a rating, is it not?

Yes, but you are relying on what you have learnt on that rating course to get you through the induction and line training with your new employer.

That's what it's all about isn't it? Securing yourself a long term job using that rating.

It doesn't look good on your cv if you can't get through the line training! It will follow you for years!

[morno]

My thoughts exactly Fathom.

Why do people insist on the absolute bare minimum, instead of a decent type rating that will help you come line training time?

morno

[TexanPilot]

In total I paid $18,000. Including airfares, accommodation, spending money, type rating, TSA application and M1 visa.

Didn't have any problems getting through line training etc. I did put in significant work of my own though.

[Masagemarad]

Don't know much about Aerosim there only background the last few years was cookie templates of various aircraft systems put on DVD than they decided to jump in the training. Aerostar is no better they just stole from everyone to get where they are and they do not even own the simulators/FTDS. Dave santos and deidra Toye who came from panam are bunch of hoodlums there.

[TexanPilot]

Masagemarad why do you say that? Do you work for the opposition?

[pilotchute]

Morno,

Just cause someone told you that a place is "dodgy" doesn't mean that it actually is. The person who told you may have got it 3rd 4th or 5th hand from someone else. Unless you have a first hand account or an experience of your own I wouldn't go around calling places dodgy that have been doing ratings for a very long time.

There are plenty of guys in Australia flying around who have done ratings at Pan Am and had no trouble with line training. I can tell you that cause I know people who have done it.

If the training in the USA was so bad then why aren't all the planes in the USA falling out of the sky?

Ansett are in a very lucky position where they are one of only two providers of Airbus ratings in Australia so they can charge pretty much whatever they like. They defend this by saying that the training is "superior" and you get more time doing "emergencies". They will also rubbish the competition by spreading misinformation of how bad the overseas "training" is.

Don't be fooled.

[pilotchute]

Course Duration: Approximately 20 Days
Classroom Instruction: On Site Option: 52:00 Hours
System Integration Training: 16:00 Hours (classroom; CPT; simulator without motion)
Simulator/Flight Training: * Paired: 12:00 Hours PF, 12:00 Hours PM (Level C or higher) 02:00 Hours LOFT (Each Pilot)
Simulator/Certification Check: 3 Hours per trainee (Level C or higher)

[Capt Fathom]

Pilotchute,

Some are saying the course is crap. Others are saying its fine.

It's your money. You have to weigh up the positives vs the negatives.

It also depends hugely on the individual. Some people will make the most of a tough situation. Others will blow a good one!

[pilotchute]

Thanks Capt,

I see what your saying. I would rather maybe work a little harder and have 15k still in my pocket than give it to Ansett.

I simply cant see what it is that the extra 24 thousand dollars gets you at Ansett. Can someone tell me where the extra cost is? I know that Ansett is a level D sim and Pan Am is a level C but for an extra 2k I can do the rating in a level D at Pan Am.

[morno]

pilotchute,
My apologies if I've offended you. Word of mouth is worth a million dollars in this industry, and I've had both other pilots, plus operators, tell me to avoid the place. I have no personal experience there, but I tend to stear clear of places when multiple reports say the same thing. However, I hope your experience is positive.

I agree, Ansett are probably charging way more than they need to be. And I've been to the US instead of spending my $$'s here as well.

morno

[pilotchute]

Thanks for the perspective Morno,

I will come back on Pprune in a few months when I have finished and let everyone know how it went.

I have 2 friends who completed ratings there recently and one guy said it was average (about what he expected) and the other said it was a bit better than he expected. Both have the rating on their CASA licence and both have secured employment. Their respective employers didn't have any gripes against the place it seems.

[pilotchute]

Thanks wasa,

What did the few guys struggle with?

[mac76]

guys i did my rating in 2005 with panam MSP for $13,000 with nil partner they found me a good guy as sim partner the training was to northwest airlines standards and i got a job 2 years later on airbus in india and now work in kazaksthan on 320 321 and 319 , i have 4000hrs on the airbus the training may not be perfect but u get a rating if u study hard u will be fine ,just go for it ....if u feel the airbus i;)s for you

[timcflyer]

Has anyone used Flight Training International?
I am in the hiring process with Tiger, and if successful, am thinking about FTI.
Their level D SIM in Denver is just under $ 9k (with home study course), and they are FAA approved.


Like the rest of you, I want the best price, but I also want quality training.


Comments please?

[sheppey]

Their level D SIM in Denver is just under $ 9k (with home study course), and they are FAA approved.


Compared with Australia and even SE Asia that certainly is a competitive price. Does FAA Approved automatically mean CASA approved?

[timcflyer]

That is my understanding.
When I moved here 4 years ago, everything that was on my FAA ATP was transferred onto my CASA ATPL.
In fact CASA models most everything they do off the FAA.
They are now in the process from changing the Regs here to a Part 61 system just like the FAA.

[i_fly_planes]

Does anyone have an email address for US Airways Contract Training? Can only seem to find phone numbers online.

Cheers

[pilotchute]

I have arrived in Miami to start my 320 rating on Monday. I will let everyone know how it goes.

Keen to see if all the negative comments here are warranted.

[Capt Fathom]

I guess you won't really know how good or bad the course is until you get to fly the actual aeroplane?

After all, that's what is all about!

[pilotchute]

I finished my rating at Pan Am and will answer questions if anyone has any.

There are a lot of things Pan Am could better but at the end of the day it did what it says on the box.

[morno]

The big question, is do you think you left with a good type rating and do you think it is enough to enable you to pass the training your new employer will put you through when you start?

morno

[DeltaT]

Ansett is CBT, 12 x 4hr sessions, incl final sim check test, and a little FMC trainer anytime you want.
You don't get to keep the manuals.

[airbus_indigo]

hii I shall be joining pan am in a few days time for my reduced course A320 for FAA ATP...pic rating on it. I would like to know reviews abt pan am ..though i know i might be asking this a little late by now. howz the oral exam....sims? with the job scenario dont get much time to go through the books so i was taking a little worry abt the oral n sim check part in pan am. please advice

[owli_ver]

Hey mate, How did u go with PanAm? Is it exactly the same as advertised?? Did you end up getiing a Type C or D?

I am also comtemplating of doing my TR this year but I am still unsure of the training schools. Also still wondering if its worth doing it now even without an employer lined up yet.

Any advise? Thanks

Oli

[Alasadan]

Hi
Does anyone know how long it takes for the rating to be transferred to an Australian licence if it was conducted in the US?

[zlin77]

I had my overseas type rating transferred to my Australian ATPL about 8 years ago, took about 10-12 days, I believe CASA Form 209 is now used for this..

[morno]

Assuming you've got all the correct paperwork in, then 3-4 weeks tops.

Mine took 4 weeks, that was with it submitted around Christmas time.

morno

[Ted Nugent]

You don't get to keep the manuals.

Find manuals here :ok:

Plane Airbus A320 (http://www.smartcockpit.com/plane/AIRBUS/A320.html)

[MD83FO]

does the FAA require all this training to convert the license?
isn't it posible to just do something close to a check ride to endorse my foreign ATPL type rating and upgrade my FAA commercial license.

thanks

[Destiny2011]

Hi , Any can please advise how is the A320 Checkride in Pan Am .

[JoshliaoD]

I finished my rating at Pan Am and will answer questions if anyone has any.

There are a lot of things Pan Am could better but at the end of the day it did what it says on the box.
Hi Sir! how was the training in PanAm international. i'm planning to get an a320 Type rating. still confused what school should i go. I'm looking for a good school with positive feedbacks also. Right now, i'm looking at Aerostar, Aerosim and Pan Am. Can you help me?