Prince Andrew...

[covec]

...is it permissable to say "Poor Show" re his ill-mannered treatment of guys doing their job?

Remember TACEVALs & getting OC Something onto the deck for an ID Check?

[Tankertrashnav]

Considering how plod's version of what happened at the end of Downing Street in the "plebgate" affair turned out, on investigation, to be a pack of lies, I'm not inclined to believe anything that's been said about this by the police, who are probably doing what they are best at, ie covering their backs.

[OvertHawk]

Methinks someone is not being straight about this. If it is as plod say then DOY is bang out of order for asking for an apology and should be grateful for the fact that they are there to look after him.

On the other hand - his comments would seem much more proportionate if someone had shoved an MP-5 in his face and yelled at him.

Mind you - it would not be the first time DOY has put his foot in it, but you'd also think he'd spent enough time around that kind of security to have a pretty thick skin.

OH

[NutLoose]

If he does not like the public provided and funded protection he is getting, perhaps it should be withdrawn and he can fund / arrange his own.
Anything he gets from the public purse can also be withdrawn too, after all he's not exactly anywhere near next in line to anything these days, simply a sponger off the public purse, personally i'd reduce that down to the statuary unemployment benefit and that's it.


.

[parabellum]

Pedant Mode ON:

If he does not like the public provided and funded protection he is getting, perhaps it should be withdrawn and he can fund / arrange his own.

The security was actually being provided for HMQ at the time of this incident!

Pedant Mode OFF. :)

[NutLoose]

I know, but you get my drift, as he is there it is also being provided for him as well, as indeed it is when he is not at Betty's London crash pad.

The bloke is a total cock, he was challenged, big deal, all his bitching has done is possibly make police officers wary about challenging anyone next time to the detriment of good security.

I realise good security Is a difficult balancing act and he should realise that, I see poor examples all the time at work.

..

[althenick]

reduce that down to the statuary unemployment benefit and that's it.


...With a personal Wealth of about £75 Million and not to mention his RN Pensh he would no doubt be rather keen to get chauffeur to run him down to Windsor Jobcentre to get signed up for JSA :hmm:

[Rhino power]

I'd add the following, if the 'security' couldn't even recognize the DOY, what the fcuk are they doing in that job in the first place?! He may not be an immediate heir to the throne but, FFS come on, get a clue!

-RP

[NutLoose]

Apologies, it appears he gets nothing off the Civil list, though it didn't stop him expecting us to pay for his children's security, which was turned down.

Rhino, its not totally impossible having someone looking similar to him and as he is not regular occupier of the house, one can understand the desire to be 100% sure.

Heck the Staish at Odious would charge anyone on the gate that refused to challenge him and ask for his ID card in the mid 70's, even though we knew who he was.

..

[Rhino power]

one can understand the desire to be 100% sure.

Absolutely, i couldn't agree more but, surely a list of 'dignitaries' was issued, and what are the chances of a ne'er do well who just happens to look uncannily like the DOY...

-RP :ok:

[Eclectic]

Plod was not protecting Liz. She was at Balmoral.

It is difficult to know which side to take. Plod lie more than any other trade. PoY doesn't exactly have a good reputation and has incredible wealth and privilege purely as an accident of birth. Maybe they deserve each other.

[Tashengurt]

Er. As resident plod I'd like to point out that we don't spend our working days concocting lies.
There's little that I do that's worth the risk if I was caught lying.



Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[chevvron]

Having spoken to him several times on RTF, I have to say he was always very friendly and chatty. He was probably only staying at Buck Pal to get away from his ex.

[MFC_Fly]

Apologies Covec, et al, but some of us Pruners aren't in the UK so don't know WTF you are talking about. Any chance of a link to the story? :ok:




Please folk, if you are going to start a thread on a news subject please include a link to the story for those of us that aren't 'locals' - cheers

[500N]

MFC

This gives the main bits.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2416412/CHRISTOPER-WILSON-Just-love-royals-spoilt-oaf-Andrew-tries-wreck-it.html?ico=home^editors_choice (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2416412/CHRISTOPER-WILSON-Just-love-royals-spoilt-oaf-Andrew-tries-wreck-it.html?ico=home%5Eeditors_choice)

[Buster Hyman]

Rumour has it that the Plods made him get on his knees & suck their toes...:ooh:

[GreenKnight121]

This gives the main bits.


In a very biased, anti-royal manner.

Here is a link which does claim that :the plods" did indeed "shove their guns in the Prince's face", repeatedly shout for him to lie on his face, and took some time to establish his identity.
Prince Andrew's rage at Palace police: Duke angry at officers who mistook him for intruder | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415374/Prince-Andrews-rage-Palace-police-Duke-angry-officers-mistook-intruder.html)


Like most things, the truth is almost certainly somewhere between "out-of-control gun-brandishing thugs threaten to shoot Prince" and "Royal twit throws tantrum at being asked politely for his name".

[mad_jock]

Nice to see Ma'am enjoying herself at the highland games.

[MFC_Fly]

Thanks 500N and GreenKnight121.

[dervish]

My view of Andrew is he's certainly "done his bit" and is deserving of respect for that. And there are many officers who are infinitely more unsufferably arrogant than him. His little paddy, if it was even that, attracts comment because of his social position. My very brief and singular experience of him, while he was in DNW (?? an RN office in London), was of unfailing politeness to ORs and civvies, and of not suffering the fawning fools of superior rank gladly.

[Pontius Navigator]

Daily Mail, biased article? Surely not.

[glojo]

I would like to think the police officers that protect our Royal Family would all know what these people look like, but having said that..

If in doubt, act and by 'acting' would it be wrong to approach a suspect and very politely ask them to identify themselves? My thoughts are that if you are in doubt, you take charge of the situation and to heck with the Daily Rag that wants to tell a good story.

I have previous here, but in my defence it happened at 1am, the very senior dignitary..... and his wife :uhoh: were unknown to me and this was at a time when terrorism was even more of a threat than it is now. You can bet they never did what they did that night ever again but my question is.......

How did this story get into the public domain?

[BEagle]

I'd add the following, if the 'security' couldn't even recognize the DOY, what the fcuk are they doing in that job in the first place?! He may not be an immediate heir to the throne but, FFS come on, get a clue!

Quite so. This isn't the same as some Odiham Stn Cdr charging an airman who didn't ask him for his ID (although I think that's pretty daft too - had he been watching Angels One Five and was following the example of Jack Hawkins as Gp Capt 'Tiger' Small?). Royal Protection officers should certainly be able to recognise those to whom they're providing protection.

[bspatz]

This interesting aspect of this story is who leaked it to the press and why? Surely it was not in the interests of either party to bring this rather embarrassing incident to light?

[Broadsword***]

What the butler saw?

[NutLoose]

Quite so. This isn't the same as some Odiham Stn Cdr charging an airman who didn't ask him for his ID (although I think that's pretty daft too - had he been watching Angels One Five and was following the example of Jack Hawkins as Gp Capt 'Tiger' Small?).

Oh he was quite farcical, I remember one day his normal car being in the dock and being given a Mini to use he entered through the main gate, now the box is quite high and a Mini quite low. On doing his ID check the guard saluted him and he drove in, the barrier at the time being electric couldn't be stopped once the button had been pressed and it had to cycle before an up selection would work.
As he drove in he thought, that guard never saluted me, so reversed up to be pinned by the barrier trying to come down, there followed a rather irate conversation "get this bloody barrier off my car etc and why didn't you salute me", to which the replies were "I can't and I did". Luckily the SWO saw the whole incident and pointed out the Staish was in the wrong.

He never had a lot of luck with cars, his normal one had been in for a service by MT and was on the way to an important meeting at 38 group when his car stopped, upon inspection the inlet manifold had fallen off lol.
:O

[BEagle]

He sounds to have been a complete ar$e!

[dctyke]

When at Wittering I got called to the police office. Earlier in the week the FS police bollacked one of the guards (who happened to be one of mine) for not looking at his id properly. Since that event he had been subject to a 'random' full car search every day. After 5 such days it had got too much for him and his boss called me in. Over a coffee we both decided that although it had a comical ring to it, it had to end forthwith!

[BEagle]

At Wattisham in pre-pongo days, one of Suphpholk's phinest phigtergators ('Wee Stevie') stopped at the barrier to show the guard his ID. The guard promptly burst into laughter, much to Wee Stevie's consternation - he thought he was being insulted. Whereupon the guard handed back his F1250...

Which Wee Stevie had made the mistake of leaving in his SD cap, together with the rest of the contents of his uniform pockets, before changing into his immersion suit to go flying the previous night - and which had been discovered and modified by a couple of chums.

It was probably the Beatle* hairstyle, huge glasses and the horns sprouting from his head, carefully added in black chinagraph which had amused the guard...and Wee Stevie did see the funny side!

Best ID spoof I ever heard was a chap at Aldermaston who wore an ID badge bearing a photo of Kruschev during the coldest part of the Cold War for over a year before it was noticed......:confused:

*For yoof, they were a 'popular beat combo'!

[PhilipG]

What confuses me about this story is in this time of heightened alertness due to the arrest of someone in the grounds the week before, someone in the protection team must/should have noticed that the DOY had left the Palace main building and gone for a walk to a secluded part of the grounds as is reported. Why was this not communicated to other team members? I would assume that if a Royal parked their car in the Royal Mews and decided to walk to the Palace over the lawn, Palace staff would be advised, if only so someone is there to open the door, it all sounds like a local command and control issue to me.

[Wrathmonk]

I would like to think the police officers that protect our Royal Family would all know what these people look like

Could it be that the officers involved had been drafted in from another section/detail/unit to beef up security following the two (?) previous incidents and had never actually met the DoY. Yes, they may have seen photographs but often when you meet someone for the first time you think you would recognise from the media, films or briefings etc they seem different because they are shorter/taller/fatter etc than you imagined (particularly given it was night as well [I think]). That split second of is it/isn't it could have been all that mattered - better to be safe than sorry??

How many times have you seen a "celeb" and done the is it/isn't it conversation? I bumped into Paul Merton in an HMV store and took a double take as I didn't realise how tall he was "in real life".

[Fitter2]

It appears that a number of contributors to the thread based their opinions on a story reported in a newspaper.

I, of course, take as gospel everything I read in the press except for the odd occasions when I happen to know the facts - when the report seems to bear little resemblance. Am I just unlucky in this respect? Surely our media do not go by the dictum 'never let the facts get in the way of a good story'.

[airborne_artist]

Tashengurt (http://www.pprune.org/members/332281-tashengurt) Er. As resident plod I'd like to point out that we don't spend our working days concocting lies.

There's little that I do that's worth the risk if I was caught lying.

You are to be congratulated, but I have here on my desk a letter from the CC of a very large force that apologises for lies told by one of her officers, incorrect process followed and a wholly undeserved warning that was issued to me for doing something that I was told to do by one of her officers.

[OutlawPete]

Ok so its a newspaper report so a large pinch of salt required but....to paraphrase:
"An unidentified man reacted with fury at being challenged for identificaton in the grounds of Buckingham palace. ...yet no weapons were drawn."

Why not? This is the Queens residence and she may have been out of town but why did they react so calmly to an "intruder".

I smell something....

[AnglianAV8R]

Outlaw Pete said " but why did they react so calmly to an "intruder".

Perhaps they're aware of his 'history' of making a menace of himself in years gone by ;)

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you :cool:

[parabellum]

After the intruder episode maybe the DOY was doing a bit of a 'test' of the palace security, not just an innocent walk in the garden, so the PCs reacted as they would be expected to under those circumstances, i.e. unidentified male roaming freely in the palace gardens? There are some very authentic face masks about these days so a simple eyeball verification would not be sufficient. Close examination and alternative ID may have been required? Maybe this is where the disagreement between DOY and police occurred?

All conjecture but possible.

[langleybaston]

I may have told this before but here goes, briefly.

JHQ Rheindahlen had an "Army" entrance and a "RAF" entrance ....... not that RAF could not go in "Army", but custom and practice, and the RAF entrance was run by snowballs, army by redcaps.

Army-issue passes: red background, ID photo.
RAF passes: blue and ditto.

Passes worn "at all times" on chain.

Liable to search and check in and out, and often.

A colleague in the MainMetOffice was about to leave the building and fished his pass out of his pocket. "Bloody hell! I've got the wife's pass!
Wife was "an army civilian"
She had his, of course.
So he phoned her and they met half way down Leystrasse in nomansland and swapped.

Security .......... I've shat it!

[Warmtoast]

NutLoose

after all he's not exactly anywhere near next in line to anything these days, simply a sponger off the public purse

As I commented in another thread following the birth of Prince George about a month ago concerning the succession:

Well according to a letter in The Times, those who envisage a long procession of male monarchs stretching into the 22nd century following the recent birth of Will's and Kate's Prince George will need to think again: ‘It is true that Princes William and now George are in line to the throne, but in the UK we have direct succession. So, if by some calamity the Queen were to be predeceased by her son, Charles, before he ascends to the throne,’ (perhaps by talking to one of his plants at ‘Highgrove’ that turns out to be a Triffid, that despatches him with it’s venomous sting.) ‘with the Queen still on the throne and Charles gone her direct descendant and heir would be Prince Andrew, with his eldest daughter becoming heir apparent.’

So if by chance ‘Air Miles’ Andrew became King, he would in due course be succeeded by his eldest daughter Bea as Queen Beatrice — and to add to the excitement his ex-wife Fergie would become ‘Queen Mother’ — a thrilling prospect!

Passed on FWIW!

[dmanton300]

You are to be congratulated, but I have here on my desk a letter from the CC of a very large force that apologises for lies told by one of her officers, incorrect process followed and a wholly undeserved warning that was issued to me for doing something that I was told to do by one of her officers.

Which tells you what exactly? That all 140,000 of us (well, it used to be before Scameron and Imelda came to "power") are bent and just looking for an excuse to lie and abuse our positions? No, it tells you that you had a bad experience in a certain situation.

In ten years I may have got it wrong (more than once!) and lost my rag (more than once and invariably at 2AM with some drunken halfwit who felt like taking me on, or at the huge traffic accident when the inevitable 45th SFQ comes up "oh, has there been an accident?", "What gave it away sir? The three police cars, the two fire engines, the three ambulances, the medivac helicopter landing next to us or the trashed car in plain site?") and upset plenty of people (you upset roughly 50% of the people you deal with in policing). . but the one thing I NEVER, EVER did was lie. EVER. Honestly messing things up and getting it wrong happens when you're human. . . lying about it is never worth it and will lose you your job in no time, I've seen it happen more than once, and for the kind of little white lie that actually didn't matter in the scheme of things. No matter, you were caught lying.

The police are an easy target these days because the level of institutional cowardice in the UK police service makes the past allegations of institutional racism pale. The default position is "sorry" BEFORE facts are established with a complaint, and often a local resolution is pushed for just to wrap it up, which often means someone getting an underserved apology and tripping away happily in the knowledge that they have "won" or "stuck it to da man". The service is top heavy with managers and very light on leaders.

Noen of which bother me any more, I resigned at Christmas and life is much nicer these days! :O

[ShyTorque]

After the intruder episode maybe the DOY was doing a bit of a 'test' of the palace security, not just an innocent walk in the garden, so the PCs reacted as they would be expected to under those circumstances, i.e. unidentified male roaming freely in the palace gardens? There are some very authentic face masks about these days so a simple eyeball verification would not be sufficient. Close examination and alternative ID may have been required? Maybe this is where the disagreement between DOY and police occurred?

Yes, maybe he was dressed as a clown?

Oh no, he wouldn't need to..... :E

[barnstormer1968]

Rhino Power said:


I'd add the following, if the 'security' couldn't even recognize the DOY, what the fcuk are they doing in that job in the first place?! He may not be an immediate heir to the throne but, FFS come on, get a clue!

-RP


You are of course completely correct........unless it was in any way possible that an intruder/terrorist or security tester could make themselves look like the DOY!


Its a pretty common thing to be honest, and can be very high level (I've personally entered top security RAF underground bunkers dressed in an RAF uniform that was not mine (I was in the army) as well as many other secure establishments while in false uniform or works gear), or can be as simple as terrorists dressing in Afghan police uniforms and then killing allied forces.

I'm guessing the police concerned may have been tested for security in the past, but that is not to say that this is why they questioned the DOY. :)

[Once A Brat]

Here's an "interesting" thought....should POW pre-decease HMQ then DOY becomes next in line to the throne and not DOC!!

Thread creep I know, but no worse than old RHQ security measures (sorry to single that post out). Indeed probably more pertinent given views about DOY aired earlier in the thread, afterall Charlie isn't getting any younger!

[GeeRam]

DoY has form in this regard, although unlikely that any currently serving Plod will know about it.

After the Michael Fagan incident at the Palace in the early 1980’s he took it upon himself when staying at Royal residences, to ‘test’ security much to the non-amusement of Royal Plod at the time.
My late father was serving Met Plod at the time based at Buck House and Windsor Castle, and on several occasions (IIRC at Windsor) DoY decided to test security. One night my old man was on duty when DoY made one of his early hours security tests and after being successfully challenged by a copper the copper called it in as a false alarm whereupon the duty sergeant replied back along the lines of.....
“Is it that pr**k Andrew playing silly buggers again” without realising that DoY was standing right next to the copper…… :E
DoY took the radio and replied back to the duty sergeant that it was indeed him but a long silence was the only reply he got back.:)

[Wrathmonk]

Once a Brat

Incorrect thought I'm afraid. The only way DofY could become king is if Charles, William, George and Harry were to pre-decease HMQ.

[Union Jack]

....... and the RAF entrance was run by snowballs, army by redcaps.

And presumably they turned into "raindrops" in warmer weather ..... :)

Jack

[Once A Brat]

Having "re-googled" it, I stand corrected! Teach me to assume, Thank You.

The assumption having been that DOC is heir to POW so should POW pre-decease HMQ then DOY becomes her heir!

What was that FS poster in 80s......"Assume makes an Ass out of U and Me!"

[langleybaston]

I had two snowdrops as uncles but my dad always refer to snowballs with the emphasis on the second syllabub.
Maybe because, when apprehended in cairo c. 1941 by said police, he was discovered to have a huge bunch of pilfered grapes under his sun helmet. VERY difficult to explain, corporal.

[glojo]

I had two snowdrops as uncles but my dad always refer to snowballs with the emphasis on the second syllabub.
Maybe because, when apprehended in cairo c. 1941 by said police, he was discovered to have a huge bunch of pilfered grapes under his sun helmet. VERY difficult to explain, corporal.


Did he perhaps ooze a little whine :hmm::O

[Union Jack]

I had two snowdrops as uncles but my dad always refer to snowballs with the emphasis on the second syllabub.

(S)no(w) worries!:ok:

Jack

[tarantonight]

Eclectic at Post #11 - don't know who you are, and probably never will. You are clearly talking out of your a**e. You have not got a scooby re how the cops do their job - really.

Individuals like you really need to get a taste of the real world. How dare you say 'plod lie for a living'. I know this is not the ideal forum to discuss this - but you started it. When I joined 'plod' some 30 years ago I was told this by an Instructor: 'Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself' and I have cherished that comment ever since.

'Plod' like any other organisation, in this case RAF/FAA/AAC etc etc has people in it who give that organisation/service a bad name. They are the MINORITY Mr Eclectic. Wake up. If you have got a spine, which I doubt, PM me with a contact 'phone number and I will give you a call to discuss the error of your ways. Doubt you have though.

As far as Prince Andrew goes, at least 'plod' were awake. From what I hear, he is not the most pleasant individual to deal with.

A somewhat disgruntled TN.

[Lone_Ranger]

PM me with a contact 'phone number and I will give you a call to discuss the error of your ways


The phrase 'True Colours' comes to mind

[tarantonight]

Lone_Ranger,

I only went to a comprehensive...................not sure I 'get' the True Colours comment.

[Fonsini]

Well if you will let a bunch of arrogant, over-privileged Germans rule over you...........

[500N]

I'd take a down to earth HRH The Queen, a decorated Prince Phillip,
William and Harry over a trumped up arrogant community organizer
who with zero experience thinks he knows best any day of the week.

I think a fair few US citizens would take William or Harry over him as well.

[CoffmanStarter]

500N ... Consider yourself flogged at dawn ... NOT EVER HRH ... Her Majesty The Queen if you please ...

[Charlie Time]

Not Never ?

[500N]

Coffman

Good point.

[strake]

NOT EVER HRH ... Her Majesty The Queen if you please ...

Unless of course, you're some bimbo BBC Z-list celeb presenter at the Jubilee celebrations last year. I nearly hurled my remote at the screen when she (for I believe it was a female) said 'HRH The Queen'. Mind you as I recall, that was just the start of a program which left me and most of the nation apoplectic with rage at the utter incompetence of the corporation.

[Fonsini]

I'd take a down to earth HRH The Queen, a decorated Prince Phillip,
William and Harry over a trumped up arrogant community organizer
who with zero experience thinks he knows best any day of the week.

Which is why the British were booted so unceremoniously out, allowing the Americans to establish a Constitution and a democracy. You know, the whole voting thing.

I must admit, calling HRH "down to Earth" did make me chuckle though :rolleyes:

[500N]

Fonsini

She's done more hands on dirty work than Obama ever has or will !

He who gets scurried off to a bunker at the first sign of danger.
(Ref to the British monarchy didn't leave London just because
the bombs were falling)

[Warmtoast]

Ref to the British monarchy didn't leave London just because
the bombs were falling

The then Queen Mum (Queen Mary) was sent / went to Badminton House for the duration when the bombs started to fall ISTR.

[OutlawPete]

I'd take a down to earth HRH The Queen, a decorated Prince Phillip,
William and Harry over a trumped up arrogant community organizer
who with zero experience thinks he knows best any day of the week.

I think a fair few US citizens would take William or Harry over him as well.

Hear hear 500N :D

[500N]

WarmToast

I am not saying they all stayed in London all of the time,
I know some of the ladies went to ? Balmoral ? but as a
whole, they stayed in London at Buck Palace.

And I think King George was in the room next to where
one of the bombs hit the Palace.

But he and his wife would not under any circumstances
"bug out" for safety reasons on a long term basis.

[teeteringhead]

And as the Queen Mum (then Queen Elizabeth) famously said after BP had been bombed:

"It makes me feel we can look the East End in the face." :ok:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Which is why the British were booted so unceremoniously out, allowing the Americans to establish a Constitution and a democracy.

That always makes me chuckle. Remind me why your White House is white?

Is that the same Constitution and Democracy that let you chaps cling on to slavery for so long?