Threat to Akrotiri..?

[Al R]

Airforce pilots ready for suicide attacks in Syria (http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/world/airforce-pilots-ready-for-suicide-attacks-in-syria-13145.html)

Around 10 Syrian Air Force pilots are reportedly willing to carry out Japanese World War-II Kamikaze-style suicide attacks on enemy targets in the event of an attack by the US and its allies.

I hope they miss the WRAF Block.

[smujsmith]

Al R,

Ignoring the flippancy, re The ladies accommodation for a minute, exactly the question I asked on the "here it comes, Syria ...." Thread. I have a horrible feeling about the fact that, unlike subs, carriers etc, Akrotiri can't be hidden. I hope they who know it all have this sort of thing covered.

Smudge

[Al R]

My flippancy was not meant to be disrespectful to the potential danger - I was there a few times when the place was reinforced by the blisteringly awesome RAF Regiment with its superb SHORAD capability (.. now ceded to the Royal Artillery of course). I was once casevaced into TPMH (something else we gave up on just a bit too soon?) one night and a Sqn Ldr PM burst into the bathroom with a shrieking 'Put that light out, don't you know there's an air raid threat?'. That one was El Dorado Canyon - it was like 'that' Susannah York scene but all jumbled up.

edit: I hope none of this will breach opsec - mods, I am sure you will act decisively if need be.

[langleybaston]

When the Turks vs Greeks Cyprus Round One 1964 was on, our back garden on OMQ in 8 Comet Crescent was occupied, very reassuringly, by Rocks with a dug-in Bofors.

Next door only had a Vickers.

Nice warm feeling

Very hard on our supply of tea and coffee, though.

Because you're worth it.

[Kerosene Kraut]

There are radars and there are missiles. Nobody will come close unseen. Not even the mighty Flogger.

[West Coast]

Said Capt Smith.

[Kerosene Kraut]

We have had plenty of them in Germany inherited from the east germans. Not exactly stealthy.

[Canadian Break]

Much like Al R, I was there during El Dorado Canyon, specifically sent for the AD of Akrotiri. The tales I could tell - that PP or CC could corroborate! "Yes, of course OC CBFC will be available 24/7 as the scramble authority" now, in my mind, rank alongside other such "truisms" like "your playmate taxies"; "yes, the tanker's airborne" and " of course I will still love you in the morning". :E

[500N]

Since Eldorado Canyon was mentioned, if I may add a bit of humour
to the already posted dits.

This from an article I read the other week.

This is the last page of what was written by one of the F-111 pilots.

Above and beyond. Take a left at Portugal.

"About 90 minutes later, we latched onto the boom of a tanker with 2,000 pounds of fuel—about 15 minutes of flying time—remaining. We landed at Lakenheath and were towed into a shelter, where a caravan of cars pulled up. General Charles Gabriel, the Air Force chief of staff, was eager to welcome us back. I put my helmet in its bag and started gathering my other stuff: pistol and ammunition, maps, code books, checklists, an empty lunch box, water bottles, and two full piddle packs. I carefully rose from the seat and descended the ladder. As soon as I turned around, there was General Gabriel, his right hand extended.

Our eyes met. It was an awkward moment for me, but the general instantly understood. He immediately took the piddle packs with his left hand, while shaking my now-free right. The first time I met the chief of staff, I gave him two pints of urine."
:O



The full article can be read here.
Above & Beyond: Take a Left at Portugal | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine (http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/Above--Beyond-Jan09.html?c=y&page=1)

[NutLoose]

They don't want to go to Cyprus, the countries broke... Surprised the Yanks are not offering say a few mil to defecting pilots.

[Motleycallsign]

I'm sure that with some of the assets that 'are not there' the coalition leaders will want to protect the base.
I remember standing outside the Ops block when the Greeks put missiles into Paphos etc, watching an F18 in Turkish Air Force markings wax the runway without warning.

[Party Animal]

There are radars and there are missiles. Nobody will come close unseen. Not even the mighty Flogger.


Yep, we will see the incoming.

Bugger all we will be able to do about it but at least we will know the general direction it came from!

[langleybaston]

a bit like someone else's fart in a lift, then .............. you know what it is, where it is, and where it came from, but cannot escape until the ride stops.

[teeteringhead]

a bit like someone else's fart in a lift, ... that's wrong on so many different levels .........;)

hat, coat etc .....

[Arty Fufkin]

It's only 170nm from Damascus to Akrotiri, well within the range of an awful lot of Syrian missiles. Last I read even the type 45 doesn't have an Anti Theatre Ballistic Missile capability.
I'd personally prefer a much longer stick if I was going to poke that particular hornets nest.

[Tashengurt]

I don't want to be alarmist but to all those at Akkers; Heads down, chins up.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[orgASMic]

Move along, there's nothing to see here. According to the Cyprus Mail
Cyprus does not expect UK base to play major role in Syria action | Cyprus Mail (http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/08/27/cyprus-does-not-expect-uk-base-to-play-major-in-syria-action/)

[matkat]

Ah well says it in the newspaper, panic over then.:ugh:

[Wyler]

Never fear, there is a long range AD Radar at Troodos....
Oh no, hang on, they removed that some years ago to save money.
Silly me.

[PingDit]

Or the S259 radar down at 280SU Cape Gata - oh, hang on a minute....

[Al R]

Don't worry, there's always the RAF Regiment Rapie...

[Broadsword***]

When I was serving in Cyprus a few years ago, my next door neighbour's friend, who was a Syrian, related a brush he had with the Syrian Government. He had been living in Cyprus for several decades and consequently had failed to serve his obligatory national service in his homeland. When he returned to Syria for a visit, he was told by the border authorities that he had been sentenced to death in his absence......but it was okay, as, owing to the passage of time, he was now considered pardoned. "Gulp."

[mayorofgander]

Are the Reds there? Will there be a medal???

If so, Akro is the place to be!!!

Later...MoG:cool:

[langleybaston]

Is the 40mm Bofors still in the garden of 8 Comet Crescent RAF Nicosia?

Pity.

Actually its not at all funny, the days of gunboat diplomacy should have ended after the BLiar nonsense but oh! dear me, no, successive self-important arseholes of governments keep wanting to rattle ever diminishing sabres to detract attention from their general incompetence.

[Canadian Break]

Wyler, more than some years ago - 1994!

[500N]

"Will there be a medal ???"

I was wondering if that subject was going to come up.

[Willard Whyte]

F18 in Turkish Air Force markings That doesn't seem kosher.

Anyhoo, as intimated earlier I'd be a little more concerned about Hwasong 5s, 6s & 7s than a banzai Sukhoi or MiG attack.

[Mad_Mark]

I was once casevaced into TPMH
Why do people do this? :{

Where the Fu€k is TPMH (without having to look it up)? Just use the F'ing name of the place, not all of us are walking ICAO databases FFS!!:ugh:

And relax....



MadMark!!! :mad:

[MFC_Fly]

Chillax MM, it's not an ICAO... TPMH is "The Princess Mary's Hospital" at Akrotiri. :ok:

Not been to LCRA (sorry, couldn't resist :E ) for many a year and didn't know that TPMH had closed - sad news indeed.

[langleybaston]

two of my children were born in

wait for it

wait for it

BMHD

British Military Hospital Dhekelia ......... which is where RAF Nicosia sprogs were hatched.

[27mm]

Ah, home of the glorious Queen Alexandra's Royal Armoured Nursing Corps...:ok:

[tezzer]

BBC reporting 6 tornados being sent as a precauitionary measure.

[TEEEJ]

Tezzer,

Not Tornado, but Typhoons.

The Ministry of Defence said sending six RAF Typhoon jets to Cyprus was a "prudent and precautionary measure" and they are not being deployed to take part in military action in Syria.

We can confirm that as part of ongoing contingency planning, six RAF Typhoon interceptor fast jets are deploying this morning to Akrotiri in Cyprus.

This is purely a prudent and precautionary measure to ensure the protection of UK interests and the defence of our sovereign base areas at a time of heightened tension in the wider region.

This is a movement of defensive assets operating in an air-to-air role only. They are not deploying to take part in any military action against Syria.

The PM has made clear no decision has been taken on our response and the Government has said that there will be a Commons vote before direct military involvement.

MoD: 'Prudent measure' to send Typhoon jets to Cyprus - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-08-29/mod-prudent-measure-to-send-typhoon-jets-to-cyprus/)

[2Planks]

Buy shares in Chris's Kebab House!!

[Tigger_Too]

Queen Alexandra's Royal Armoured Nursing Corps

QARANC - Quick and Ready - and NEVER Caught :O

[Al R]

Mark,

"ICAO": International Civil Aviation Organization.. right? Got that from the Turkish radar thread.

I often hear FFS mind. ;)

[Blue Bottle]

Typhoon jets sent to Cyprus to guard against possible Syrian retaliation | World news | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/29/typhoon-jets-cyprus-syria-retaliation)

[Pontius Navigator]

Nothing like concentration of force and economy of effort.


Nothing like . . .

Good thing they don't have Scuds.

Scud - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scud#Syrian_Civil_War)

Oh, they do have them.

Well the Bloodhounds at Parimali West will get them.

Oh, we don't have them? :(

[Rossian]

....is Olympus Radar no more? Talk about cutting off one's nose,unintended consequences etc etc

The Ancient Mariner

[kaitakbowler]

Having had my friends and family a terrorist target at AKR (Aug 3rd 1986) I can only hope that should it all kick off re Syria that all on the Island stay safe.

Paul M

[SRENNAPS]

I am off to Pernera Beach on Sunday for two weeks. Let me know if there are any beers calls on the Typhoon Sqn......I need to experience a bit of that good old fashioned drinking culture :E

[Al R]

PN

ARE we building up Aki? If we seek to be a little more discriminatory about how and where we get stuck in, if we're aiming a little closer to home..

BBC News - 'East of Suez': Are UK forces returning? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22333555)

.. then it might be a good idea to bolster it. It would be somewhere to strategically stockpile too, lots of gear we're recovering from Afghan, instead of selling through Witham Sales (http://www.mod-sales.com/), conveniently, just up the road.

[sycamore]

Do you still have to `arrive` at AKR before lunch,siesta,so `handbrake/scribblies` can go home/leave....? should be `fun` going around the Armoury,Ops,Mess toting big bags full of NBC kit/Naps tablets/3-4 to a room....

[Al R]

When I was first posted in, we landed mid afternoon and the place was deserted (1984). My informal arrival however, resulted in me being incapable of speech after just a couple of quick hours. Being beasted up and down Cardiac Hill at 0615 the next day taught me a valuable lesson about Keo.

[Dengue_Dude]

I'm off on holiday to Paphos on Sunday, so if you're going to war, please keep the noise down . . .

[just another jocky]

@sycamore - no.

[Al R]

Col Bob Stewart has just described Akrotiri as the 'perfect' site from which to launch an attack on Syria. That will go down well!

[Rick777]

Guess nobody has to worry about this anymore as Cameron's request was denied.

[Spanish Waltzer]

Rick,

I dont think so - there is more at Akrotiri than a few Brits and a helicopter.

Cameron may not be committing troops/aircraft/ships etc but that doesn't mean he wont offer support in other ways too.

[Ronald Reagan]

Using Akrotiri for any ops against Syria is mad. Such a thing would allow Assad to justify an attack upon Cyprus. All of it puts the civilian population of Cyprus as risk. Totally mad and totally wrong.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Totally agree RR, but just one scud hitting Akro would be enough for CMD to send in the 4 spare terratorials we have in reserve:D

[Pontius Navigator]

If you thought your enemy might use an airbase nearby would you wait until he was ready?

[gr4techie]

Good job we're nobodies enemy.

[PingDit]

still... I'm sure nobody would object if we 'lent' Akrotiri to our American cousins. They could install their own defences then!

[Broadsword***]

Using Akrotiri for any ops against Syria is mad. Such a thing would allow Assad to justify an attack upon Cyprus. All of it puts the civilian population of Cyprus as risk. Totally mad and totally wrong.

He could easily use America's ongoing utilization of the SBAs as a pretext for attacking Cyprus, whether the UK were involved in military action against Syria or not. And since when did he need any justification to attack civilians?

[Davef68]

He could easily use America's ongoing utilization of the SBAs as a pretext for attacking Cyprus, whether the UK were involved in military action against Syria or not. And since when did he need any justification to attack civilians?

Which would give Cameron the justification to get involved ('Unprovoked Attack on soverign British territory') and justify invoking NATO mutual assistance?

[Ronald Reagan]

I think its stupid to give Assad any excuse to hit Cyprus.
Does the government of Cyprus not have some considerable say in what we/the US can and cannot do from the bases there?

[oldbilbo]

While the bogeyman in Damascus might well fancy a pop at Akro, I fail to see how that could possibly assist his continued survival. Would that not invoke a NATO response of quite some significance, which would rather defeat the object - if there is one ?

"...The members agreed that an armed attack against any one of them in Europe or North America would be considered an attack against them all..."

I find myself wondering if there's an element of 'Good cop - bad cop' in play, for if M. Assad finds he wants an 'out', I'm confident he'd rather have Britain as an intermediary than someone from China or Russia.....and so might his wife.

This is getting close to the last opportunity for Bashir al-Assad to cut a deal, and I do hope he's rather more rational than Gaddafi.

[Broadsword***]

I think its stupid to give Assad any excuse to hit Cyprus.
Does the government of Cyprus not have some considerable say in what we/the US can and cannot do from the bases there?

Nope. Under the Treaty of Establishment, it is British Sovereign Territory. Besides, given the number of Russians and Russian interests on the island of Cyprus, even the deranged Assad is not going to risk lobbing a scud in that direction.

[Torque Tonight]

Martyr Eagles Squadron

There's something you don't want to see on your posting notice.

[Al R]

I don't mind a good insurance company scrap on behalf of clients, but thats not one I'd like to argue the toss over with underwriters.

[kaitakbowler]

Cyprus mail reports that Russia may ask CYP Gov. for military use of Paphos airfield and Limassol Port:=

[500N]

kaitakbowler

Why the :=

I said before that Putin has Obama in a Squirrel grip and
all he has to do is squeeze which he is now doing.

As far as I am concerned, Putin should make Obama look
like the biggest dick in US Presidential History and made
to pay for having such a big mouth.

[TEEEJ]

The use of Cypriot facilities has been in discussion for a while now. The Cypriots also have similar agreements with France for the use of Paphos airport. The news of Russian military using Cypriot facilities normally gets bent out of shape.

Some quotes from the Cypriot Defence Minister back in June.

Cypriot Defense Minister Fotis Fotiu told the Nicosia daily Fileleftheros the country was "studying the possibility of providing in certain cases" the use of the Andreas Papandreou Air Force Base for Russian military aircraft.

Asked if use of the Paphos airbase will be granted only to Russia or other countries as well, the defense chief noted the only other agreement for Andreas Papandreou is with France, which dates to 2007.

...it is no different than services other countries provide for foreign armed forces..... But what I want to make clear is that no discussion about a permanent base in Cyprus for Russia ...

Cyprus considering Russian use of Limassol port, Paphos airbase - UPI.com (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2013/06/25/Cyprus-considering-Russian-military-use-of-airbase-port-facilities/UPI-23571372133220/)

The Russian Navy already uses Cypriot ports for refuelling. The agreement to use Paphos will be similiar to the current agreement with France to allow military tranport flights. France already uses Paphos as a logistics hub and for emergency evacuation of citizens in the region. Somehow I can't see Cyprus allowing Russia to use Paphos for anything other than military transport flights similar to the French agreement.

[LS-4]

As far as I am concerned, Putin should make Obama look
like the biggest dick in US Presidential History

Some stiff competition in that field, I think.

[Al R]

Russia was remarkably calm when Cyprus trampled all over 19 billion euros worth of dodgy roubles - now we might know why. Off shore oil reserves next.

[langleybaston]

Some stiff competition in that field, I think.

Ask Monica perhaps?

[gr4techie]

I'm sure Cyprus don't care who uses it, as long as they are paying.

Theres a lot of money to be made from the war business. When they say Afghanistan costs $ billons per day, It always made me wonder who was the receiving end of the cashflow.

[LS-4]

Ask Monica perhaps?

;)

Not quite the metaphor I was thinking of.

[500 above]

Chilling details of the huge arsenal of chemical weapons arsenal stockpiled by Syria were revealed tonight by French spies | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2408439/Chilling-details-huge-arsenal-chemical-weapons-arsenal-stockpiled-Syria-revealed-tonight-French-spies.html)

300 mile range. Puts Akkers well in range.

?We will not be used as a launching pad for Syria attack? | Cyprus Mail (http://cyprus-mail.com/2013/09/01/we-will-not-be-used-as-a-launching-pad-for-syria-attack/)

[West Coast]

Curious. Now when you chaps get on your high horse about the US! Remember that (allegedly) the UK was selling Assad chemicals that had potential use in CW.

[smujsmith]

I refer to my post #2 from a few days ago, and respectfully suggest it may not have been such a silly question. I suspect this Assad bloke is not like Saddam or Gaddafi and may well react to being attacked by hitting anything and everything he is capable of. Meanwhile I reckon there are targets to his south that might also prove "irresistible".

Smudge

[500N]

Smudge

Meanwhile I reckon there are targets to his south
that might also prove "irresistible".


South or South east ?

What were you thinking ?

[smujsmith]

500N,

Not to beat about the bush Israel would seem logical (south I believe). It would really kick off some aggro. Lets face it, I doubt he believes he could beat the US in a straight fight, but why would he fight straight. And if he has the attitude, "I won t go as easily as Saddam or Gaddafi, I'll take as many as I can with me", who knows. I still believe though that Akrotiri would at least present a static target if he's attacked. Are you thinking Jordan (South east) ?

Smudge

[500N]

Smudge

"Are you thinking Jordan (South east) ?"

No, I was thinking of US assets in the Gulf States.

I didn't think of Israel as I just very much doubt that he would attack Israel
just because the US fired a few missiles at him.
1. If that was the case, why didn't he attack Israel when they dropped bombs
on the Nuclear Reactor ?

2. Israel has whipped his arse before and in all likelihood would do it again.
Israel would have nothing to lose if Syria attacked it and they have everything they need to turn Syria and it's military into a raging fireball with acceptable losses.

Do you really think he'd attack Israel knowing what he is likely to
cop back ?

He's already fighting a civil war, I doubt he wants a full blown war
with a neighbour as well.

[uffington sb]

Have any of you looked at a map?
Jordan is south, and Isreal is south west.

[smujsmith]

uffington,

Good point well made, I'm no navigator so accept your directions.

500N,

My point with regard to Israel relates to seeing the burning oil wells in Kuwait, every day for several weeks, as we ran our routes in to Kuwait. Saddam certainly had a "scorched earth" policy that I believe Assad may well share. Those types do tend to follow a particular mindset. I'm not too sure about Israel bombing Syrian Nuclear reactors, they certainly bombed the Iraqi facility at 'Osirak' ? I think in 1981. ISTR an Israeli raid on a facility in 2007 in Syria, that was rumoured to be a nuclear site, but the Israelis claimed it was a chemical site, back to square one maybe ? Anyway, I'm not claiming any vast strategic or tactical military knowledge. I know what I fear may happen, and wonder how its contained to a couple of air strikes.

Smudge

[500N]

Smudge

Forget whether it was Chemical or Nuclear, the fact is Israel flew into
a well defended country, bombed an air defence facility and the plant
and flew out again without one aircraft being lost. In addition, they
inserted Commandos on the ground before the raid and extracted them
afterwards.

IMHO, no mean feat.

[smujsmith]

500N,

Agreed.

Smudge

[Faithless]

Is there something going on in Syria? What, have we got bases in Cyprus?:E

[Pontius Navigator]

ISTR an Israeli raid on a facility in 2007 in Syria,

When your air defence system is right royally f****d up you know exactly what kit needs to be replaced and updated. Probably a new air staff as well - and no pensions to pay for the old guard.

[Willard Whyte]

Remember that (allegedly) the UK was selling Assad chemicals that had potential use in CW.

Well, one can get pretty much all of what one needs on Amazon (.co.uk at least) and Google the methodology.

Not sure if they ship to Syria of course, maybe Assad should try Amazon.fr or .de?

[MAINJAFAD]

Wyler, more than some years ago - 1994!

Wrong, though 280 SU's Type 84 and S259 were withdrawn back in the mid 1990's, the 1ACC Type 99 and Type 101 mobile radars have been done extended deployments on Cyprus since then.

[TEEEJ]

The Sunday People / Sunday Mirror have come up with a story of Syrian Su-24 Fencers being involved.

RAF Typhoon fighters won a mid-air showdown with two Syrian warplanes heading towards Britain’s main base in Cyprus, the Sunday People can *reveal.

The dramatic confrontation came after President Bashar al-Assad’s air chiefs sent two Russian-made Sukhoi Su-24s to probe our air defences. The Syrian bombers refused to respond to repeated attempts by the control tower at the UK’s Akrotiri air base to contact them.

Syrian warplanes flee after testing defences at British air base in Cyprus - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/syrian-warplanes-flee-after-testing-2259425)

[Al R]

Russians putting the kettle on, ten minutes from Akrotiri?

Russia 'plans forward air operating base' in Syria - US - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34252810)

[27mm]

SA-5 Gammon, fielded by the Syrians, is quite capable of taking down ac in Akronelli cct. We would regularly see its associated rdr on our RHWR gear on F4s while there.

[smujsmith]

Surely Assads military capability is no threat, when our glorious leader is only suggesting joining Assad in fighting the IS scum ? Perhaps the arrival of Putins pilots in theatre might make the pollies think about their "military posture" ? I doubt we need to add Russia to our list of targets in the region. I do though hope the Russians deploy big, and annihilate IS, like a plague of vermin, we can do without them all.

Smudge

[Robert Cooper]

Russia's military initiative is in Syria at the invitation of the Syrian government. The White House and State Department are taking actions to blockade Syria to stop Russian humanitarian and military assistance — an act which would rapidly turn all of Syria over to the barbarians funded by the Wahhabists in Saudi Arabia. To date, the policy to unseat Assad has failed miserably despite the West’s imposition of sanctions, bombing of the country and the sponsoring, financing and training of terrorist mercenaries.

US and Russia are on opposite sides of the Syrian Civil War. Russian is on the side of secular ruler, internationally recognized, government of Syria, and the US on the ISIS/Al Qaeda/Nursa Front side of the Civil War. Assad’s military has been the bulwark against both the Islamic State and Al Qaeda’s affiliate, the Nusra Front. So, by moving to shut down Assad’s supply line, the U.S. government is, in effect, clearing the way for an Islamic State/Al Qaeda victory.

Just a thought.

Bob C