RAF Club Thread: Not in Good Health [Archive]

Courtney Mil

24th Aug 2013, 16:18

I would rather see it open to more of the RAF than opening up to contractors, defence industry salesmen and others viewed as being "useful" to some members who can use it as a part of their RAF job and future networking. As long as the ex-techies can manage to refrain from "that" song in the dining room, I say come on in. Can you? :E

In all the posts in these recurring threads, many here need to remember that the RAF Club isn't part of the RAF. It's a completely separate enterprise. That's why VSOs don't get priority room bookings or the like.

Anyway, I've been paying my dues since 1977 and I love it. Walk in any time I'm there and present your PPRuNe ID card and I'll buy you a pint. Of course, I'll be in the Running Hourse Saloon and Whore House to evade the opressive dress regulations.

Wander00

24th Aug 2013, 16:19

Is that "their aunts and their cousins that they reckon up by dozens"

Tankertrashnav

24th Aug 2013, 16:29

Carrying on the Sir Joseph Porter theme, wander 00, I'm not sure about never having gone to sea, but I'll wager there are quite a few current members who have never been in the air!

NutLoose

24th Aug 2013, 16:33

As long as the ex-techies can manage to refrain from "that" song in the dining room

One never sings while dining, the KFC drive thru just isn't the place :E

Courtney Mil

24th Aug 2013, 16:44

No horses in the McDonalds drive through, no singing in KFC's. It's an errosion of our human rights!

Avionker

24th Aug 2013, 16:58

Ultimately the fate of the club is in the hands of the members, as it should be.

Having achieved the dizzying heights of Cpl during my time in the RAF I have never been eligible for membership, and in all honesty that fact has never bothered me.

If over time the connection between club members and the RAF become diminished due to serving officers not joining, and more civilians been invited to join in order to keep the club solvent, then so be it. If that is the wish of the members then that is what should happen. The vast majority of RAF personnel, past, present and future, won't even notice.

Anyone who feels offended about been excluded from membership should consider the words of Marx:-

"I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member."

Groucho Marx

NutLoose

24th Aug 2013, 17:09

Not bothered at all myself, as my visits to London are infrequent, it just seems wrong they are having to bolster the funds by inviting every man and his future dog in for weddings etc while barring those that actually serve in the RAF but haven't been commissioned...

You could have a Warrant Officer with 22 years of service, tit full of medals barred due to his rank, when a council estate slapper with 15 kids on benefits and on her 3rd wedding is invited in with open arms......

And before you ask I have nothing against Slappers or where they live or earn an income..

Avionker

24th Aug 2013, 17:19

It's a private club, funded by club members, for club members. If any public funding were involved then I would agree with you but there isn't, so it's the members wishes that matter.

NutLoose

24th Aug 2013, 17:22

Then the name is then wrong and should be the RAF officers club, as it bars the majority of the RAF. How can you name a club where most of the RAF is barred?

Wonder how The name would ever stand up if challenged, but as I said I do not want to get into this earlier in the thread.

..

TomJoad

24th Aug 2013, 17:34

This is getting stupid. It's a private club The phrase RAF is not copyright protected. There is no apostrophe in the title.

Who would have thought a matter of grammar would have caused such debate on pprune. My membership had lappsed since leaving but I'm going to renew it now - because I can. :ugh:

Walk in any time I'm there and present your PPRuNe ID card and I'll buy you a pint. Of course, I'll be in the Running Hourse Saloon and Whore House to evade the opressive dress regulations.

Courtney, if Scotland votes yes next year I'll take you up on that. We can raise a glass or 3 to all those who came on here to profess they have no interest in being members then assail the membership policy. Hey I'm assuming my membership will still be valid post independence - now there is a debate ;)

Courtney Mil

24th Aug 2013, 17:41

You'll need a propser and a seconer! :E

TomJoad

24th Aug 2013, 17:51

You'll need a propser and a seconer! :E

That is ridiculous - for membership of a private club how exclusionary:\

Would it make any difference if I build my own house and put a bar in it. :E

Courtney Mil

24th Aug 2013, 17:57

NutLoose

24th Aug 2013, 17:58

Depends on what you stock in your bar.

SOSL

24th Aug 2013, 18:11

I guess that there are about 100 clubs in London, similar to the RAF Club. They all have membership eligibility criteria.

To Join the Alpine Club you have to be a mountaineer but if you're not a mountaineer you must feel really challenged not to be able to join the club.

The Beefsteak Club, at 9 Irving St, allows no "women members or visitors" but if you're a woman you must feel awful not to be able to partake of their beef.

Boodle's and Brooks's - both "Aristocratic" and respectively Tory and Whig. Hang on I'm Labour but I really really want to join!

City University Club, 50 Cornhill, only admits Oxbridge graduates. I'm not a graduate of anywhere but you lot are just snobs. So would I feel comfortable being a member of your club.

The East India Club in St James's Square - Public Schools old boys. Hang on, I went to St Marys grammar school in Middlesbrough - I demand the right to enroll.

The London Sketch Club in Dilke Street, Chelsea - I don't actually know what a sketch artist is but I demand my right to be a member.

All the above is just playing with words. My point is that clubs are all just groups of human beings and they can define and limit themselves however they like.

You guys with such a narrow focus on the RAF Club are missing a whole world of London Clubs out there that you could be complaining about!

Rgds SOS

Broadsword***

24th Aug 2013, 18:22

How 'private' is the Club's use of an RAF badge? I doubt you would get one of those approved for your home bar.

How 'private' is all the quasi-official RAF activity that takes place there?

I happen to think it is a matter of real shame that, in particular, the non-commissioned pilots and other non-commissioned aircrew of WW2 were never deemed worthy of membership of the 'RAF Club'.

NutLoose

24th Aug 2013, 18:30

In one Broadsword, and in this day and age it should encompass the whole RAF, if you are willing to put your life on the line for the RAF you should be entitled to be a member of the club bearing that name.

TomJoad

24th Aug 2013, 18:37

Not really. You'll still want to decide who comes into your house. Ah, that was your point. Note to self: think entire post through rather than start typing and make it up as you go along.

Er, can I come to your bar? :O

Sorry a tenuous link to the previous (now deleted) thread where a detractor of the Club was very proud of his house, with a bar, by a lake. That will teach me for trying to be smart.

My bar (bookshelf) is open - malts mainly.:ok:

TomJoad

24th Aug 2013, 18:43

Jimlad1

24th Aug 2013, 18:58

Surely if the demand were there, then a 'I can't believe its not the RAF Club' would have been created many years ago for the non eligible members to join?

Its a private club, it can set whatever membership criteria it wishes, and does so. If you want to be a member, do the necessary to join it - e.g. change roles, jobs or ranks. If not, then what is the problem?

I should declare that I have been fortunate enough to enjoy honourary club membership for a year for professional reasons, but I was never able to avail myself of the facilities, so technically was a member, but I have no emotional stake in the argument.

dragartist

24th Aug 2013, 19:13

Victory Services Club is not far away from Marble Arch. free for all ranks serving members. Bars and a restaurant. (mind you the food has been variable over the years). The Curry night is good.

Big poster in the foyer saying it was gifted to the nations servicemen by Winston Churchill. Not elitist at all.

Some of you may be interested that the London Society of Air Britain meet there on the second Wednesday of each month. We put on some interesting lectures. The highlights of the current season are Tony Blackman on the Victor 9th October. TSR2 on 8th Jan and John Bessette on 12th Feb 14. We have had Winkle Brown and Norman Bonner several times in the past. Winkle was in fine fettle with Jean on his arm last year.

Melchett01

24th Aug 2013, 19:25

I'll be in the Running Hourse Saloon and Whore House to evade the opressive dress regulations.

There's a Whore House? Where? How did I miss that?

Airborne Aircrew

24th Aug 2013, 19:46

Tom:

This is getting stupid. It's a private club The phrase RAF is not copyright protected. There is no apostrophe in the titleTwo things... Firstly, if it's a private club with an exclusive membership why do you feel the need to discuss it's workings and failings in a public forum when you are so touchy about "public" input? Feel free to go and set up a forum for the RAF Club because, as has already been pointed out, the software is free so you can afford it.

Secondly, it seems by your attitude that it would be quite alright for someone to buy a nice property on the same street, let all comers in and call it THE RAF Club.But I have the feeling that someone would have a lawyer on their arse before the paint was dry on the sign.

TomJoad

24th Aug 2013, 20:03

Tom:

Two things... Firstly, if it's a private club with an exclusive membership why do you feel the need to discuss it's workings and failings in a public forum - public discussion is what this forum is for fella - how can you fail to miss that:ugh:

when you are so touchy about "public" input? Sorry fella you are mistaken there. No concerns whatsoever about public input. But, in a public forum, I am at liberty to disagree, or agree, or be neutral on the opinions of others. How can you fail to miss that:ugh:

Feel free to go and set up a forum for the RAF Club because, as has already been pointed out, the software is free so you can afford it. We don't need to we have PPrune - it is fit for purpose. How can you fail to miss that:ugh:

Secondly, it seems by your attitude that it would be quite alright for someone to buy a nice property on the same street, let all comers in and call it THE RAF Club.But I have the feeling that someone would have a lawyer on their arse before the paint was dry on the sign.Really - we tend not to be so litigious in the UK. In any respect that is a specious argument. And yes, how could you have missed that:ugh:

Anyway, how is the lake - nice and still!

Just checked rules for naming private residences. Would appear that in UK, well Scotland at least, you only need to inform the post office of the house name - nothing else. Always fancied Buckingham Palace, we already have a few White Houses! In truth The RAF Club sounds quite appealing - thanks AA, never thought of that. OF course that will be the next challenge from the angry mob - naming your house is so elitist:}

Courtney Mil

24th Aug 2013, 20:15

Actually, there already is a forum on the RAF Club website. No idea what happens there, but it can't be as much fun as this. :)

TomJoad

24th Aug 2013, 20:32

That forum may benefit from AA's membership:E

That is if it is a public forum.:{

500N

24th Aug 2013, 20:53

AA

I have never seen you state on PPRuNe that Fishing was one of your pastimes :O

Rosevidney1

24th Aug 2013, 21:26

Air-Britain meeting at the Victory Service Club was mentioned by dragartist. I've been a member of Air-Britain since I left the services in 1980. A number of us students wanted to join at Ternhill after seeing one of their magazines and spoke to an instructor about it. To our surprise he had a hissy fit and claimed it was 'a fascist organisation' and membership of it would jeopardise our careers! Needless to say we didn't attempt to join. Looking back over the years, considerably older if not much wiser, I am appalled by his misleading us, as I'm sure joining a society of aviation historians couldn't possibly have been an offence.

Shack37

24th Aug 2013, 21:43

TomJoad

24th Aug 2013, 22:24

Before committing myself I need to know what "that" song is. Is it post 1971?

Yeah I was thinking that as well - any chance of the lyrics please.

Airborne Aircrew

25th Aug 2013, 01:41

500N:

I have never seen you state on PPRuNe that Fishing was one of your pastimesI'm the good looking chap... This was my 46th birthday present to myself...

http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/sailfish.jpg

It seems there's bigger fish here... :E

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 09:40

He's back on that lake again. Well you'd definitely not get in the club with your dress sense:E

Courtney Mil

25th Aug 2013, 10:02

"The good looking chap"? So you're a fish? :eek:

Oh, the song. "Hands together, knees together..."

thing

25th Aug 2013, 10:03

Damn, bet me to it!

Courtney Mil

25th Aug 2013, 10:04

Tee hee. Only just.:ok:

SOSL

25th Aug 2013, 10:29

I've edited my post at #32 to make my point clearer.

Rgds SOS

NutLoose

25th Aug 2013, 10:42

Re read your post and it stll doesn't make sense,

Your stating that you cannot join XYZ club because you never went to XYZ school.... Fine as you do not qualify by having not attended XYZ school etc

But you seem to then say the same rules should apply to the RAF club, but that would infer you could only join the RAF club if you qualifiy by having served in the RAF. Which isn't the case.

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 11:18

goudie

25th Aug 2013, 11:29

:ugh:......yawn!
----------------------------------

"Hands together, knees together..."
Courtney, what's the rest of the lyric? Can't for the life of me re-call it.
Sounds like an old rugby song.

CoffmanStarter

25th Aug 2013, 12:03

I spy an opportunity for the next round of mischief ...

A PPRuNe ID card ...

Now there's a thought ... What would it look like? ... Who would get one? ... Would there be an "exclusive" Black Card like Nados? Could it be a Credit Card with a preferential APR?

... and we'd certainly want AirMiles :E

I think we should also send a complementary ID Card to Sharky along with honorary membership of the RAF Club :}

Coff.

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 12:28

I spy an opportunity for the next round of mischief ...

Now there's a thought ... What would it look like? ... Who would get one? ... Would there be an "exclusive" Black Card like Nados? Could it be a Credit Card with a preferential APR?

... and we'd certainly want AirMiles :E

I think we should also send a complementary ID Card to Sharky along with honorary membership of the RAF Club :}

Coff.

Love it.:D:D:D

Could it have one of those biometric chip things with your personal details on it. Let me think, such things as your "class" and if you have built your own house or not. These thing seam to be important to some, oh wait mainly to those who don't like the Club's membership rules.:ugh:

JackReacher

25th Aug 2013, 13:03

Does it still smell funny?

thing

25th Aug 2013, 13:03

Come to think of it, I attend my Old Boy's Dinner every year. If you didn't go to Barnsley Grammar School you can all bugger off.

gr4techie

25th Aug 2013, 13:09

Why is it a private club in the first place?

Is it the only way you can feel special about yourself?

thing

25th Aug 2013, 13:27

Again I don't get the bitterness over this club. As in my last post, if you didn't go to my school you can't go to the OBD. I've never had any negative comments about that, isn't it just the same? If you weren't a commissioned officer then you can't go to that particular club. It's a club with it's own admission policy, the admission policy being you have to have been a commisioned officer. Seems perfectly straightforward to me.

Airborne Aircrew

25th Aug 2013, 13:37

Thing:

Again I don't get the bitterness over this clubI don't think anyone is bitter about the club itself. I think some are bothered by the fact that they call it the RAF Club yet exclude the vast majority of the RAF. It might be more accurately named The RAF Officer's Club.

Some I believe are bothered that rather than expand their membership by expanding from within the RAF they choose to, seemingly, allow any old council house slapper who wants to get married access as long as they aren't marrying some impoverish OR. I'm sure many see that as a big fat slap in the face.

For my part it's a result of the previous thread where they came here to a public forum bemoaning their failing club and flagging membership and asked for ideas. When I proffered the idea of allowing other ranks the idea was rejected, (which is fair), but then I was vilified for making such a suggestion by the same people who really can't seem to organize a piss-up in their own "brewery".

By the way, can someone do me a favour and give old Tom a bit of a nudge, I'm afraid his record is stuck.

thing

25th Aug 2013, 13:58

I get your point over the name, but then I bet Spearmint Rhino doen't admit odd toed ungulates with fresh breath either.

If it's the name that's a problem then personally I think that's being a bit pedantic. I couldn't care less what they call it.

gr4techie

25th Aug 2013, 14:03

The name is a problem as it is cashing in on something it is not.

You still haven't answered my question "why does it need an admission policy"?

thing

25th Aug 2013, 14:08

I don't know if that's addressed to me but I thought the whole point of clubs were that they all have an admission policy. Otherwise aren't they just a bar? Would this thread have died on the first page if it was called the RAF Officers Club?

As to why they should discuss it here, why not? Should I feel umbrage if someone starts a thread about RAF Gan, somewhere I never went to nor am never going to? Isn't that being exclusive?

Broadsword***

25th Aug 2013, 14:26

For my part it's a result of the previous thread where they came here to a public forum bemoaning their failing club and flagging membership and asked for ideas. When I proffered the idea of allowing other ranks the idea was rejected, (which is fair), but then I was vilified for making such a suggestion by the same people who really can't seem to organize a piss-up in their own "brewery".

I suspect hard economic realities told them they must do something to boost the income of the Club. All suggestions would be considered (including prostituting the Club's principles), provided under no circumstances did these include any proposal to extend membership to non-commissioned ranks. It is hard not to conclude rank snobbery will finally sink the Club.

goudie

25th Aug 2013, 14:36

From Wiki
The Royal Air Force Club was founded in 1918 when the first Lord Cowdray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weetman_Pearson,_1st_Viscount_Cowdray) donated funds to obtain a permanent building which would house the Club
When the club was founded 95 years ago there was probably no need to define it by name, as a club for officers only, because in those days it would have been a given, that only officers would have had need of such a club.
The RAF I was in had all sorts of demarcations between officers and o/r's,
from doors one could or could not enter, (HQ) to which toilets one could or could not use. Don't know if that applies today but that's the military for you.
It was ever thus!
As an aside, when I did the Vulcan course in '58, at Woodford, the factory had 5 classes of dining areas. We RAF types qualified for area 3, a room with cutlery and plastic flowers on the table! Posh or what?

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 14:41

Thing:

I don't think anyone is bitter about the club itself. I think some are bothered by the fact that they call it the RAF Club yet exclude the vast majority of the RAF. It might be more accurately named The RAF Officer's Club.

Some I believe are bothered that rather than expand their membership by expanding from within the RAF they choose to, seemingly, allow any old council house slapper who wants to get married access as long as they aren't marrying some impoverish OR. I'm sure many see that as a big fat slap in the face.

For my part it's a result of the previous thread where they came here to a public forum bemoaning their failing club and flagging membership and asked for ideas. When I proffered the idea of allowing other ranks the idea was rejected, (which is fair), but then I was vilified for making such a suggestion by the same people who really can't seem to organize a piss-up in their own "brewery".

By the way, can someone do me a favour and give old Tom a bit of a nudge, I'm afraid his record is stuck.

Awh, you not getting any bites there AA- maybee yon fish you caught was the only one in the lake.;)

Here's the thing fella - don't think anyone on the previous thread, certainly not the OP, actually asked how to improve membership from what I recall. In fact the opposite, it was reported that membership was entirely healthy. What I do recall is a load of bitter souls making assumptions then jumping in with their own prejudices. Some of the bitter souls even tried to play the class warrior card, while some regaled us of tales of how they built their own home - bizzare! What I find amusing, is that some like you, profess violently to have no interest in the club but then insist upon sharing your opinion on it::ugh: At length you have opined that such a topic should not be discussed on a public forum. :D:D:D:D:D Keep it up AA, the TV has been pretty poor this weekend and my nearest lake is a few miles away:E

Airborne Aircrew

25th Aug 2013, 14:49

don't think anyone on the previous thread, certainly not the OP, actually asked how to improve membership from what I recall.Wrong thread silly... Do a search in the Advanced search for "RAF Club"... You'll find the thread I am referring to. The recently deleted one is clearly not the one I'm referring to.

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 14:51

From Wiki

As an aside, when I did the Vulcan course in '58, at Woodford, the factory had 5 classes of dining areas. We RAF types qualified for area 3, a room with cutlery and plastic flowers on the table! Posh or what?

:D:D:D:D

In the style of Armstrong and Miller "that is well bling that is innit"

NutLoose

25th Aug 2013, 15:00

3, a room with cutlery

So what did the rest get?

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 15:02

Wrong thread silly... Do a search in the Advanced search for "RAF Club"... You'll find the thread I am referring to. The recently deleted one is clearly not the one I'm referring to.

And that is what you took from that! Well done fella talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory:ugh:

goudie

25th Aug 2013, 15:22

So what did the rest get?
Nutloose
As I recall the shop floor workers had scrubbed tables and benches, collect your cutlery with meal
next it was tables san flowers but had cutlery,
above us it was waiter service, water jug on table etc.
I think the food was pretty much the same...dire!

Mind you, that was very much the order of the day in British factories.

hanoijane

25th Aug 2013, 15:27

May I offer comment...? As a non-Brit...? And a non-RAF person...?

Two things. Firstly, the number of ad hominem attacks in this and the previous thread rather suggests some weren't taught how to argue a point. You know who you are. Yes, I'm aware of the irony implicit in this observation :)

Secondly, I was recently treated to lunch at this establishment by a chap who assured me it would be immense fun. It wasn't. Fun, that is. I thought the decor was awful. Why so many paintings?

I can see no point in feeling slighted if you're excluded from this club by virtue of your rank, or lack thereof. Unless you like paintings, in which case you should sulk mightily.

NutLoose

25th Aug 2013, 15:32

Yup that would about sum the food up brown and sludge.

Rigga

25th Aug 2013, 17:26

If the "RAF Forum", a privately-run website that is nothing to do with the RAF, is being pursued to change its name due to RAF Copyright claims - then shouldn't the "RAF Club", a Private Club that is nothing to do with the RAF, be pursued to change its name in the same way?

Could someone explain to me why it shouldn't? I believe both organisations had their names before the RAF claimed copyright.

A bit like Mrs Beckham trying to stop "The Posh" from using their name, I believe.

Pontius Navigator

25th Aug 2013, 17:39

Nutloose
As I recall the shop floor workers had scrubbed tables and benches, collect your cutlery with meal
next it was tables san flowers but had cutlery,
above us it was waiter service, water jug on table etc.
I think the food was pretty much the same...dire!

Mind you, that was very much the order of the day in British factories.

And about 1976 it was till thus. We wangled a visit to see the new Mark 2 Nimrod. Apart from a masterly lack of activity, we dined in style with the same sort of setup as you described.

And did workers really object not having the same facilities as the bosses? If all were equal where is the incentive for improvement?

gr4techie

25th Aug 2013, 17:41

Rigga,

Because the club went out with intent to cash in on the name and pretend to be something it isn't. The club did not end up with the same name by mistake.

goudie

25th Aug 2013, 17:56

PN Quite true.
To quote from G&S's The Gondoliers, when everyone is somebody, then no-one's anybody".

goudie

25th Aug 2013, 17:58

gr4techie
Because the club went out with intent to cash in on the name and pretend to be something it isn't. How do you know that? It was 95 years ago!

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 18:04

SOSL

25th Aug 2013, 20:40

Had lunch at the Turbo-Union production site canteen, in Munich, once. Selected from a menu!

Roast saddle of hare with asparagus and a German version of potato Dauphinoise coupled with a very good Riesling, followed by some sort of cakey thing (very light and fluffy with lots of whipped cream), then coffee, small chocolate thingy and a shot of brandy.

Kind of puts Woodford in the shade really and don't even mention the canteen at Rolls Royce Filton.

Rgds SOS

Pontius Navigator

25th Aug 2013, 21:04

Rigga,

Because the club went out with intent to cash in on the name and pretend to be something it isn't. The club did not end up with the same name by mistake.

As I said on the other thread, Stradling said the Officers' Mess was the social centre of the station. That statement took no account of the fact that 90% of the station personnel were prohibited from even going near the Officers' Mess or OMG unless on duty.

Officers were a world apart from the ORs. They may have been mere garage mechanics but they still followed Army and Navy customs with strictly controlled intercourse between ranks.

I think it is also true that each rank group, airmen, corporals, SNCO/WO, and officers all guarded their rights to separate social clubs and messes. Jack is not as good as his master and the foreman does not wish to mix with his boss.

If someone aspires to a commission then the route is open.

If someone aspires to become a member of the RAF Club, pay the dues, and abide by the rules, then there is a route a well. True it is not as easy as for a serving officer and does require acceptance by the committee, but the route is there.

As a matter of interest, would anyone who espouses the view that the club is elitist and that they are excluded care to say if they would join if they could.

Shack37

25th Aug 2013, 21:41

The RAF I was in had all sorts of demarcations between officers and o/r's, from doors one could or could not enter, (HQ) to which toilets one could or could not use. Don't know if that applies today but that's the military for you.

Reminds me of a tale told of a CO of ???Sqn. some time ago now who when faced by a choice of two toilets marked "Senior Officers" and "Gentlemen" almost pee'd himself before reaching a decision.

NutLoose

25th Aug 2013, 21:46

But PN the Officers Mess has no pretensions of claiming it is the RAF be all and end all.. The club by its name infers it is.

I have absolutely no qualms in it for what it is, but I do feel that if it continues to infer it is "The RAF Club" it should admit all current serving members or rename itself to add Officers club in its name.
Especially considering they appear to be letting every other man and his dog in through the doors rather than current serving members of other ranks.

But then that's just my own feeling especially considering the way the RAF appears to be swinging with combined messing etc.

Jack is not as good as his master and the foreman does not wish to mix with his boss.

You really need to come into the 21st century, no one is a master over anyone these days.

..

Airborne Aircrew

25th Aug 2013, 21:56

PN:

As a matter of interest, would anyone who espouses the view that the club is elitist and that they are excluded care to say if they would join if they could. Therein lies the rub... No-one is really saying the club itself is elitist... Rather that there are a group of the members that, because they managed to scrape a pass through Cranwell, are somehow forever superior to anyone and everyone who never felt a desire to go there... It was a career choice not a bloody anointing of a demigod. But they'll never get it...They will continue to have an inflated sense of self despite the fact that, in many cases, they are physically, intellectually and morally only equal at best to many they held rank over. In many cases they pale alongside those that served under them.

But... Enough of John Toad...

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 22:05

PN:

Therein lies the rub... No-one is really saying the club itself is elitist... Rather that there are a group of the members that, because they managed to scrape a pass through Cranwell, are somehow forever superior to anyone and everyone who never felt a desire to go there... It was a career choice not a bloody anointing of a demigod. But they'll never get it...They will continue to have an inflated sense of self despite the fact that, in many cases, they are physically, intellectually and morally only equal at best to many they held rank over. In many cases they pale alongside those that served under them.

But... Enough of John Toad...

Bless, the lady doth protest too much;) Stirring that lake again AA, good man, tv must be crap your side as well.:ok:

goudie

25th Aug 2013, 22:06

What matters is what something is, not what it is called.
Origin

From Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet, 1600:
JULIET:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 22:09

as posted before to rebut the charges of the class warriors:

Is there for honest Poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave-we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that.
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd for a' that.

Man is gold (gowd) not rank nor position; that misconception is equally poisonous when it is of the inverted form:ok:.

smujsmith

25th Aug 2013, 22:23

Airborne Aircrew

25th Aug 2013, 22:25

It's nice we managed some pleasant poetry out of this...:ok:

thing

25th Aug 2013, 22:44

Therein lies the rub... No-one is really saying the club itself is elitist... Rather that there are a group of the members that, because they managed to scrape a pass through Cranwell, are somehow forever superior to anyone and everyone who never felt a desire to go there... It was a career choice not a bloody anointing of a demigod. But they'll never get it...They will continue to have an inflated sense of self despite the fact that, in many cases, they are physically, intellectually and morally only equal at best to many they held rank over. In many cases they pale alongside those that served under them.:ugh: But does it matter? Really in the grand scheme of things? Supposing you are right in all of your opinions, so what?

I'm reminded of people who used to write letters to Points of View in the 60's along the lines of 'You could tell it was puerile filth right from the beginning and I sat through an hour of it.'

If the RAF Club (or let's for sake of further argument call it the RAF Officers Club) offends you the answer is simple, don't go there. I'm not qualified to go there, nor do I care if it's full of elitist fogies living on their past glories, imagined or not. I have no wish to go there, I don't care if it falls down during the night as long as no one is injured. There are a million and one other clubs, what is the problem with this one? Apart from it seems the name and apparently that Jeremy Kyle contestants can go and you can't and neither can I.

I really couldn't give a rats and neither should you. If you wonder why I'm bothering posting on the subject it's not really that I give a hoot about the RAF Club but I do give a hoot about why so many people find it a bone of contention. It fascinates me and like a dog with an itch I can't leave it alone.

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 22:47

In 30 years of service I never once felt that I would be better off if I acquired a commission. Ahh you will say, maybe that's because you did not have the qualities required. Who can tell, because the very qualities that make a good officer, also make a good NCO. I do know that I, and a lot of fellow ex SNCOs had and have some good mates who are ex and serving officers. I think that pretensions of being anything other than a "bloke in a Blue suit" are just that. I like the VSC. When I stay there I meet loads of people who are just like me, ex military. Sounds like the RAF club is trying to attain the same status. Good luck to them.

Smudge

Spot on smudge, we are in near violent agreement here. Nor should you have felt that you would have been better off due to outside influence. In my experience, success and happiness comes best when you follow your own heart and ambitions not those of others. I sat on many pre boarding and was always at pains to make sure that applicants really understood what the role was about. Even within the Service there was so much misconception. I remember talking through a friends application with him as he went through boarding. He was a Chf Tech with every prospect of going on to reach WO in short order. An excellent technician, SNCO and friend. All that we ever considered was the nature of the jobs that would become available and the different career path he would take - none of the prejudicial vitriol about rank and position and being better than the the non commission cadre as had been spoken about by some here. That is just so much nonsense, juvenile at best, poison to the soul in reality.

Like you, with respect to your comments on the VSC, whenever I visited the RAF Club I too met loads of people with whom I had shared experiences. There should be no surprise here that is how a club works. I do not agree with you where you believe that the RAF Club is trying to attract status - it is simply what it is, comfortable in its own skin, its members happy with what they fund.

TomJoad

25th Aug 2013, 22:57

:ugh: But does it matter? Really in the grand scheme of things? Supposing you are right in all of your opinions, so what?

If the RAF Club (or let's for sake of further argument call it the RAF Officers Club) offends you the answer is simple, don't go there.

:D:D:D:D Exactly well put thing. But for some reason known only to himself the likes of AA, despite protesting that they have no interest insist on showing otherwise. Strange isn't it, almost like being provocative for the sake of it.

So come on AA, succinctly and without ambiguity please state what is it about the RAF Club that is digging at your soul fella.

For my part thing - I'm just in this for the diversion from the TV - usual weekend rubbish.

Airborne Aircrew

26th Aug 2013, 01:27

Thing:

But does it matter? Really in the grand scheme of things? Supposing you are right in all of your opinions, so what? I agree entirely. What pisses me off is that they decide to come here asking for help and when it is offered chose to dress people down like some LAC under their command. That's what bothers me... Not the fact they have their club, but rather they can't manage to run it effectively yet some still try to maintain some semblance of superiority that is clearly unjustified. The damn thing has been around for what, a hundred years, and the silly bastards still can't make it work... and they have the temerity to look down their noses at others... :rolleyes:

Pontius Navigator

26th Aug 2013, 07:19

You really need to come into the 21st century, no one is a master over anyone these days...

Really? Are you living in the real world?

There are workers and bosses. There is hierarchy in the work place. I could go on.

One problem with the UK is the perception that jack is as good as his master. Jack's son should have the same opportunities his master's son, but has to work at it. Too many expect to have it all without the struggle that his parents, or grandparents, went through to improve their standards. Other just don't try. Note I am not talking about Servicemen here.

Regarding the name of the club, there are many cases where the original name was either inexact or times have moved on, but the names are part of the fabric of the building (true in the case of this Club).

In Dublin we noticed many building with 'Royal' in their title, nearly 100 years after they became a replublic.

thing

26th Aug 2013, 08:24

One problem with the UK is the perception that jack is as good as his master.

What's wrong with that?:confused: I'm buggered if I would admit that any man is better than me. Surely that's a deeply ingrained part of our national psyche?

NutLoose

26th Aug 2013, 09:07

Yup, but not in PN's world, everyone is still expected to doff ones cap to him and bow as he passes by.

Broadsword***

26th Aug 2013, 09:54

Jack's son should have the same opportunities as his master's son

By that logic, membership of the RAF Club should be open to the son of an RAF sgt, just like it is open to the son of a sqn ldr.

StopStart

26th Aug 2013, 10:17

The opportunity is there for the Sgt's son. He gets commissioned. Duh.

Anyway, the RAF Club isn't open to all sundry because we don't want you bloody peasants in there soiling it with your beer stained ties, polyester suits, appalling table manners, public flatulence, dreadful northern accents and general all round frightfulness.

Just FYI.

Pontius Navigator

26th Aug 2013, 10:50

Nutloose and thing, you both show a massive inferiority complex.

Why, for one moment, do you think I would expect you to doff your cap to me?

I may well be the one who has the manners and acumen to doff my cap to you.

Do you really think your egalitarian utopia exists?

I don't go up to retired ACMs and say hello Bill, hello Paddy, and recognise that even retired they are still of a higher status than you or I.

May be you would, I don't know.

Broadsword***

26th Aug 2013, 11:08

The opportunity is there for the Sgt's son. He gets commissioned. Duh.

That is hardly 'the same opportunity', is it? In order to be eligible for membership, the sgt's son would have to join the RAF (and as an officer), while the sqn ldr's son would not.

Anyway, the RAF Club isn't open to all sundry because we don't want you bloody peasants in there soiling it with your beer stained ties, polyester suits, appalling table manners, public flatulence, dreadful northern accents and general all round frightfulness.

I believe I heard something very similar from a Guards officer, when he was asked if the Cavalry and Guards Club would ever consider merging with the RAF Club next door.

Pontius Navigator

26th Aug 2013, 11:17

Broadsword, quite. Probably why they stopped us using their club :}

Avionker

26th Aug 2013, 11:22

When I was in the RAF I showed respect to all those who were above me in rank. Occasionally this respect was begrudged if the person in question was considered by me to be less than deserving of their position. More often it was given freely and happily, I was lucky to have many good bosses.

I am no longer in the RAF. A retired ACM has the same status as me, a retired Cpl, we are both civilians. All retired members of the armed forces are civilians.

I take people as I find them. If someone treats me like I'm dirt on their shoe they will be left in no doubt what I think of them, regardless of who they are or what they were. If someone is reasonable and polite towards me I will reciprocate, regardless of whom they are, or what they do, or in fact did, for a living.

BEagle

26th Aug 2013, 11:47

....beer stained ties, polyester suits, appalling table manners, public flatulence, dreadful northern accents and general all round frightfulness.

An accurate description of a certain airline's board of directors, stoppers ;) ?

In any case, such folk would be totally confused by the fact that 'tea' in the Club is served before 'dinner'.....:rolleyes:

cuefaye

26th Aug 2013, 11:51

Hey c'mon Beags, surely nobody has tea afore 'noon' ;)

Agaricus bisporus

26th Aug 2013, 11:58

Jeez! What a fatuous argument! If a privately run club choses to restrict it's membership to one armed bus drivers called Marmaduke it is free to do so, and if you're not in that group go join another club, don't whinge about "unfairness". It's nothing to do with unfairness, it's just what a business (probably guided by it's clientele) choses to do. Get over it and stop being so bloody self-righteous. You cant join a synagogue if you're a catholic - is that unfair? What a ridiculous concept!

If it were a council or gubmint run club (ie a public one) that would be different. It isnt.

If it matters that much to you go join the Royal Navy club. They let anyone in. Even non com crabs and bus drivers.

NutLoose

26th Aug 2013, 12:08

I am no longer in the RAF. A retired ACM has the same status as me, a retired Cpl, we are both civilians. All retired members of the armed forces are civilians.

Correct and I call them by their first name which is returned.
End of the day it was just a Job, which they had as I have, left.

Wrathmonk

26th Aug 2013, 12:15

Has anyone said "should have worked harder at school" yet??:E:E:E

And, yes, I'm fully aware that there are plenty of those that have held, or currently hold, a rank between AC and WO who are far better educated than those who hold PO to ACM but it seems playground rules are in force!

Just out of curiosity does anyone know if there are any former WW2 era NCO aircrew (who were not subsequently commissioned) who were offered, held or currently hold membership?

StopStart

26th Aug 2013, 12:22

Aye T' Beagle! 'Appen as mebbe. But where tha's mook tha's brass!

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 12:40

Thing:

I agree entirely. What pisses me off is that they decide to come here asking for help and when it is offered chose to dress people down like some LAC under their command. That's what bothers me... Not the fact they have their club, but rather they can't manage to run it effectively yet some still try to maintain some semblance of superiority that is clearly unjustified. The damn thing has been around for what, a hundred years, and the silly bastards still can't make it work... and they have the temerity to look down their noses at others... :rolleyes:

So that is it, that's what's been at the heart of your complaint AA. It makes sense now fella. Your are of course correct. It's an inferiority complex, a chip, or a few, on your shoulders. AA let it go it is eating you up fella. I am sure in real life you are actually a decent guy, but now I understand why you felt so compelled to introduce the size of your house. Iget it now, same reason why you say you have no interest in the Club but keep commenting on the with such invective. Listen AA apart from a dodgy dress sense, looking like a fish and being boastful about your house you are probably ok. This RAF Club just ain't for you. Get rid of the inverted snobbery and the chips will fall from your shoulders. Cheers fella, I'm glad we got there.:ok:

Airborne Aircrew

26th Aug 2013, 13:03

You're not making the "difference" in those children's lives that you think you are you know Tom.

Drop it, you'll never quite get it which is the whole point of this discussion... :ugh:

thing

26th Aug 2013, 13:13

Nutloose and thing, you both show a massive inferiority complex.
Howso? Wouldn't have thought that taking pride in myself and being able to regard myself as the equal (note 'the equal' not 'the superior'..) of any other man shows an inferiority complex. However if you think I have then be my guest.

Do you really think your egalitarian utopia exists?
It's all about subsribing to a belief PN and that's where I think you get irked. I don't buy into the beliefs that you have spent a lifetime building and cherishing. Sorry.

I don't go up to retired ACMs and say hello Bill, hello Paddy, and recognise that even retired they are still of a higher status than you or I.

May be you would, I don't know. Belief in your system. I don't as I've already pointed out. I do call retired ACM's by their first name, he calls me by mine.I also speak to him with respect as he is a font of knowledge and well worth listening to, the same as I would speak with respect to a good angler (one of my hobbies). But that's respect for the man, not his rank. I left the RAF a long time ago PN, so did you. My title is Mr and neither you or I have to call anyone sir anymore. If you wish to continue to do so then that's your choice. Which I respect by the way.

StopStart

26th Aug 2013, 13:28

Literally (not figuratively) the funniest thing I've read on this slowly declining forum in years!

A big thanks to those of you who've taken time out from your busy Daily Mail letter writing schedule to give us a brief glimpse of the years of pent up rage at the injustices you have been subjected to! I for one fully support your campaign for immediate membership for all of the RAF Club followed by its subsequent razing to the ground!

ЦP THЗ ЯЭVФLЦTIФИ CФMЯДDЗS! FФЯШДЯD TФ THЭ GДTЗS ФF THЭ ЯДF CLЦЬ ДЙD DЗДTH TФ THЭIЯ HДTЗD MЭMЪЗЯSHIP PФLICУ!!

Anyway, I can tarry here no longer. These servants won't birch themselves you know.

Pip pip.

thing

26th Aug 2013, 13:31

See, you can always make someone happy :)

Pontius Navigator

26th Aug 2013, 13:33

Thing, I accept what you say although you are inaccurate in one respect. I did not leave the RAF a long time ago.

NutLoose

26th Aug 2013, 13:53

Quote:
Nutloose and thing, you both show a massive inferiority complex.

Interesting that you should feel that way, if you read my post I mention serving none commissioned should have the use, never mentioned ex service, myself It wouldn't bother me in the slightest, I have had ex Engineering Officers work for me and we have both been professional to realise that what we both once were is neither here nor there, it is what we are now that counts...
If that's what you believe PN then please carry on in that belief, who am I to burst your bubble.

thing

26th Aug 2013, 14:12

Thing, I accept what you say although you are inaccurate in one respect. I did not leave the RAF a long time ago.

Apologies PN, I was looking at your age in your sidebar.

BEagle

26th Aug 2013, 14:24

Well, Stoppers, I've learned one thing from this thread - it seems that there actually is a school in Barnsley....:eek:

I'll go to the fooot o' oower sterrs....;)

thing

26th Aug 2013, 14:35

You bounder! I'll give you a good thrashing should you step through our hallowed portals..;)

By the way someone once asked Mike Parkinson what Barnsley Grammar School had done for him..

'What myxomatosis did for rabbits' was his rather unkind reply.

BEagle

26th Aug 2013, 15:02

I can confidently state that there's little or no chance of that!

And Stoppers, isn't 'birching one's manservant' in fact something of a euphemism....:ooh:

Thrash bounders by all means, but a gentleman should always care for his servants, according to my long-dead grandfather.

thing

26th Aug 2013, 15:06

I can confidently state that there's little or no chance of that!

So can I, it doesn't exist anymore...:).

Union Jack

26th Aug 2013, 15:15

If it matters that much to you go join the Royal Navy club. They let anyone in. Even non com crabs and bus drivers.

Not so, Mushroom, since members must be officers of the Royal Navy, of Flag rank or of the rank of Commodore, Captain or Commander, who are, or were, eligible to be appointed to command an HM Ship at sea. Lieutenant Commanders actually appointed in command one of a seagoing ship are now also eligible to become Members.

So, ship drivers yes, bus drivers no, unless of course the latter qualify as above.

All in all, a great deal more selective than the RAF Club .....:cool:

Jack

PS I should also add that I have always greatly enjoyed, and appreciated, being a guest at the RAF Club:ok:

CoffmanStarter

26th Aug 2013, 15:33

So these must be UAS "herberts" then ... one "gentlemen" seems to be wearing a RAF Reserve tie ... they all look a bit old for students ... so I assume they are/were past UAS members ... I may be wrong.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/ScreenShot2013-08-26at161211_zps885dc147.jpg

A night at the RAF Club (http://www.maison-de-stuff.net/john/pictures/rafclub/)

Membership criteria : Present members of the UAS, who have completed their first academic year of study, and all past members of the UAS should be eligible for affiliate membership in recognition of the UAS support of the Royal Air Force

They seemed to have enjoyed themselves ... a "Think Bubble Comment" on the 23:30 pic from the other members might be a bit of fun ... or has all the fun been had by now on this thread :ok:

thing

26th Aug 2013, 15:59

Plenty left mate, keep casting!

NutLoose

26th Aug 2013, 16:23

You seem to miss out in all of this that an Officer isn't born and bred, it's simply a culmination of completing a 30 week course, nothing more, nothing less.

..

Tankertrashnav

26th Aug 2013, 16:42

Re deference due to retired senior types, I heard of an admiral who retired to a Cornish village. He made it known at the local pub that he'd like to be addressed as either "admiral" or "Sir John".

He was therefore startled on his next visit, when as he walked in, one of the old locals called out from his regular seat in the corner, "Hello sailor!"

I did meet MRAF Sir Michael Beetham, who had been my station commander at Khormaksar, at a function once and I couldn't imagine in a million years addressing him as "Mike". I think a simple "sir" to one of our few surviving 5 stars is not too much to ask, and I don't consider that forelock tugging.

Agaricus bisporus

26th Aug 2013, 16:45

Oops! My mistake!

I was referring to this;

The Naval Club : Welcome to the Frontpage (http://www.navalclub.co.uk/)

gr4techie

26th Aug 2013, 16:48

I don't know if that's addressed to me but I thought the whole point of clubs were that they all have an admission policy. Otherwise aren't they just a bar? Would this thread have died on the first page if it was called the RAF Officers Club?

Not in the real world. Like the rugby club back home where anyone can become a member regardless of your occupation.
Nobody is excluded and everyone is welcome and you don't even have to play, you can be a social member. You can even like cycling or fishing and still be a member.
This policy promotes the sport, gets the youngsters interested and with the amount of members the club has, ensures its future survival.
To give you an idea of how big the club is and how it welcomes anyone of any ability, we run up to four senior teams, plus a veterans team and junior teams from under 7's through to under 17's. So it doesn't have to resort to posting on a forum bemoaning their failing club and flagging membership and asking for ideas.
It baffles me why a club would turn away potential sources of revenue?

CoffmanStarter

26th Aug 2013, 16:49

TTN ... agree 100% :D

Broadsword***

26th Aug 2013, 16:56

So these must be UAS "herberts" then ... one "gentlemen" seems to be wearing a RAF Reserve tie ... they all look a bit old for students ... so I assume they are/were past UAS members ... I may be wrong.

A night at the RAF club (http://www.maison-de-stuff.net/john/pictures/rafclub/)

Lucky all the static from those suits didn't set the place alight. Standards indeed.

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 17:04

You're not making the "difference" in those children's lives that you think you are you know Tom.

Drop it, you'll never quite get it which is the whole point of this discussion... :ugh:

And with that AA you have proved my point. I was being sincere fella, I do feel your pain; you're most likely so eaten up with your envy of success that you don't notice the vitriol in your comments any more. With respect to the "difference" I make, forgive me, but I prefer to take the counsel of the kids rather than yours; their spirits are less burdened by the disdain for the pursuit of excellence that you harbour. I will cite empirical evidence against your prejudicial musings; I send my third student off to the RAF this year, off to Cranwell as an aspiring pilot. Not bad for a kid from a bog standard comp and a more egalitarian individual you would not meet. Here's a thought, he could recommend you to the Club, or maybe sign you in as a guest, you could learn a lot from him. :ok:

So as before AA, it is time you laid those chips down, they are corrosive, poison to the soul. Best wishes.:O

thing

26th Aug 2013, 17:06

I think a simple "sir" to one of our few surviving 5 stars is not too much to ask, and I don't consider that forelock tugging.

:ugh: But no one's asking you not to. If you wanted to call him or any one else sir that's your perogative and I would support your right to do it.

thing

26th Aug 2013, 17:14

Not in the real world. Like the rugby club back home where anyone can become a member regardless of your occupation.I understand what you say, bad explanation on my part. There are clubs I'm sure you will agree that have membership criteria. You have to have been or are still either a mechanical engineer or whatever, I'm just picking examples out of thin air here. Let's pretend somewhere there's a club for one legged frog sexers, the criteria for membership that you have to have been or still are a one legged frog sexer.

Would you feel offended that you couldn't attend the one legged frog sexers club? Would you even want to? What's the difference between that and the RAF Club? Other than the name which seems to be a sticking point.

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 17:17

By the way someone once asked Mike Parkinson what Barnsley Grammar School had done for him..

'What myxomatosis did for rabbits' was his rather unkind reply.

Love it :D:D:D:D

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 17:30

I understand what you say, bad explanation on my part. There are clubs I'm sure you will agree that have membership criteria. You have to have been or are still either a mechanical engineer or whatever, I'm just picking examples out of thin air here. Let's pretend somewhere there's a club for one legged frog sexers, the criteria for membership that you have to have been or still are a one legged frog sexer.

Would you feel offended that you couldn't attend the one legged frog sexers club? Would you even want to? What's the difference between that and the RAF Club? Other than the name which seems to be a sticking point.

Thing, I find myself agreeing with you on that again. But for many of the antagonists on here who rail against the Club that reason is just a totem. In my opinion, and this is based on experience, there is a group of individuals that are using it, a bit like that old horse from Troy. Except what lurks inside is pent up angst, frustration and prejudice against a particular group, idea or even the system. The actual argument, as has been commented on, is long lost and was mostly likely frivolous. What we have left is a haranguing by PPrune's angry mob.

NutLoose

26th Aug 2013, 17:37

Not in the slightest.

Union Jack

26th Aug 2013, 17:59

Oops! My mistake!

I was referring to this;

The Naval Club : Welcome to the Frontpage (http://www.navalclub.co.uk/)

Ah indeed, AB. :ok: Formerly the RNVR Club, and (Oh dear!) originally "Officers Only"....

Jack

Rosevidney1

26th Aug 2013, 18:06

Will this thread ever be exhausted enough to quietly fade away?:sad:

Avionker

26th Aug 2013, 18:13

Hardly an angry mob TomJoad.

A couple of people are not happy about the name, but let's face it that's not going to change in a hurry. They have their opinion which differs from other peoples. Vive le difference I say.

I would hate to think I wasted 15 years of my life, as a very, very small wheel in a big machine, protecting a nation where one can't even voice an opinion.

This thread, and I'm sure you are aware of this, is now mainly you and AA "willy waving". Still good entertainment though......

goudie

26th Aug 2013, 18:18

Just to sum up then...err, what was the question?:confused:

gr4techie

26th Aug 2013, 18:20

So with this club, what happens if you spend 10 years or so as a junior rank then get a commission? Does the very same person get treated differently overnight? Because you are still the same person, just wearing a different rank slide.

Avionker

26th Aug 2013, 18:25

Well as that person would then fulfill the criteria to join the club, then yes they would.

Courtney Mil

26th Aug 2013, 18:28

Rosevidney1,

I guess the answer to your question is like those posted about the Club. If you don't like it...

Seriously, though, after seven rivetting pages a question does, at last occur.

Thing, is a one legged frog sexer someone with one leg that sexes frogs or is it a particularly picky person who sexes frogs, but only those with only one leg?

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 18:33

Hardly an angry mob TomJoad.

A couple of people are not happy about the name, but let's face it that's not going to change in a hurry. They have their opinion which differs from other peoples. Vive le difference I say.

Still good entertainment though......

So I say angry mob you say .............. I agree Vive le difference - and yes entertaining it has been.:ok:

But I do think it has run its course:(

Rosevidney1

26th Aug 2013, 18:41

You are too quick to accuse me Courtney Mil as my post neither opposed the club nor supported it.
Let me say instead that as the interminable thread is allegedly about the HEALTH of the club I am reminded of that old saying 'Creaking gates last the longest'.

Courtney Mil

26th Aug 2013, 18:45

Sorry, Mate. I have no part in this argument at all. I was simply failing to be slightly amuzing and light hearted. Not the right time and place, obviously.

Avionker

26th Aug 2013, 18:48

Actually Rosevidney1, this thread is about the health of the previous RAF Club thread, not the health of the club itself. This makes it even more entertaining in my opinion.

Well done Broadsword***. :D

Courtney, not having even a passing familiarity of frog breeding habits or techniques, could a one-legged frog reproduce? It strikes me that if they cannot then there really wouldn't be any point sexing them would there? This would suggest that the person doing the sexing was one-legged.

One the other hand, if one-legged frogs can reproduce then again we are on the horns of a dilemma.

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 19:01

500N

26th Aug 2013, 19:08

Tom

For a start, that is a Cane Toad :O

Secondly, it's poisonous, hence holding it by the back legs !

CoffmanStarter

26th Aug 2013, 19:08

Steady on chaps ... this is now BBQ Thread territory :}

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 19:11

Actually Rosevidney1, this thread is about the health of the previous RAF Club thread, not the health of the club itself. This makes it even more entertaining in my opinion.

Well done Broadsword***. :D

Avioniker it's even more entertaining than you think; the two now deleted threads were not enquiring about the health of the club at all

In SOSL's thread he was correcting misconceptions raised in other threads that had incorrectly suggested that eh Club was in poor health.

Beagle's deleted thread invited comment about the Club's new web site - he deleted it because the angry mob (sorry vive le thingy) started debating the merits of the clubs admission policy etc.

In all that lot AA is convinced somebody asked for advice on how to improve club membership - neither OP ever did:D:D:D:D

So could it be that we have hit upon the topic in PPrune which dares not be named. Laugh, you could not make this up - much better than TV!:E

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 19:13

Tom

For a start, that is a Cane Toad :O

Secondly, it's poisonous, hence holding it by the back legs !

I feel cheated on by my education:) Thanks 500N, that type of info could save a fella's life.

500N

26th Aug 2013, 19:18

I woudn't be, they are a PITA and used as Golf Balls for Golf Swinging practice,
Shotgun and Rifle Targets or just given a swift boot, preferably Size 10 or larger !

And don't laugh, they were "released" to control some beetle and now they
are a pest marching in the millions across northern Australia killing every
native thing in their path !!! (Native animals try to eat them and die).

goudie

26th Aug 2013, 19:19

much better than TV
Yes indeed TJ. I seldom watch tv anyway but this thread has been a welcome distraction. What's the latest score?

Broadsword***

26th Aug 2013, 19:20

Ah indeed, AB. Formerly the RNVR Club, and (Oh dear!) originally "Officers Only"....

How on earth did it survive such a cataclysmic change to its membership criteria? It even still looks like a service club.

Oh, you mean, it survived because it was prepared to change its membership criteria.

Avionker

26th Aug 2013, 19:21

I feel cheated on by my education Thanks 500N, that type of info could save a fella's life.

I bet thing would know that. He went to Barnsley Grammar school....

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 19:28

I bet thing would know that. He went to Barnsley Grammar school....

Yes but I don't think that would make him eligible for the Club:E

Courtney Mil

26th Aug 2013, 19:38

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 19:59

500N,

That is the biggest Cane Toad I've ever seen. Nearly as big as some of the Lounge Lizards you'd find in the RAF Club these days.

And yes it a Cane and yes they are poisonous, but only really if you eat one (or lick one - it happens).

How would one come to be licking a toad - please tell me not in the process of sexing it:uhoh:

Anyway we are digressing; on membership, would the toad be eligible if he were commissioned, or married to a "slapper from a council estate". Would AA object to his new found status ;)

thing

26th Aug 2013, 20:07

Thing, is a one legged frog sexer someone with one leg that sexes frogs or is it a particularly picky person who sexes frogs, but only those with only one leg?

The ambiguities of the English language!

I bet thing would know that. He went to Barnsley Grammar school....

And don't you forget it prole..;)

500 have you ever been Cane Toad racing? I won 200 bucks last time I went, rather fond of the critters now.

Can anyone put this thread back on track, I can't remember where it had got to.

Pontius Navigator

26th Aug 2013, 20:21

Anyway we are digressing; on membership, would the toad be eligible if he were commissioned, or married to a "slapper from a council estate".

Of course he would.

You can't black ball a toad; Courtney should be able to confirm that. :}

Courtney Mil

26th Aug 2013, 20:23

Tom,

Thankfully nothing to do with Cane Toad sexing. Even stranger yet.

From Wikipedia:

There have been deaths reported as the result of people attempting to get high from cane toad venom.[/URL] Reportedly, some dogs in Australia, where the toads have become a major pest, have learned to lick the toads for pleasure.
Bet you won't see that in the RAF Club!
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_toad#cite_note-5"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoactive_toad#cite_note-4)

500N

26th Aug 2013, 20:30

The toxin is actually a drug like Cocaine. Hence you can get high
or hallucinate from it if you don't die !

That would certainly liven up the RAF Club :O

thing
No, never raced them, I use them as Targets.

And that is the last I am going to say on Cane Toads so this thread
can get back on track.

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 20:46

You can't black ball a toad; Courtney should be able to confirm that. :}

I feel there is a story there, but perhaps for another time.

Can anyone put this thread back on track, I can't remember where it had got to.

Well, I think we had established that:

a. Some of us had a difference of opinion

b. That the use of French phrases was, well, passé.:E

Winco

26th Aug 2013, 20:56

AA

I have a great deal of sympathy for you and I agree with most of what you say. I find it a great shame that the likes of other ranks are barred from using the facility when frankly anyone else can, as long as you have never been non commissioned.

That said, let me assure you that you are not missing out on anything at all by not being able to use it, and I can assure you that with a bit of hunting around on the internet, and for the same amount of money, you can get far better accommodation in London,

Sooner or later, it will close down when it dawns on the powers that be, that there are insufficient officers going through the system to maintain its existence.

I haven't used it in years and have absolutely no intentions of ever using it again! And, from what I gather from friends and colleagues who do still occasionally use it, the place is dying on its feet I gather. Apparently its full of drunken slappers from council estates!

cuefaye

26th Aug 2013, 21:07

Ah Winco, you're back!

Sadly

SandyYoung

26th Aug 2013, 21:19

The various references to "drunken slappers from council estates" are quite offensive. One presumes the authors are tee-total castle dwellers.

Airborne Aircrew

26th Aug 2013, 21:38

Wingco:

Thank you...

That said, let me assure you that you are not missing out on anything at all by not being able to use it, and I can assure you that with a bit of hunting around on the internet, and for the same amount of money, you can get far better accommodation in London,I actually stay with my sister just south of the river for free... So, despite the assertions by some that I am somehow jealous and have a chip on my shoulder, I really don't need the club. Establishments of ill repute are far more interesting than any that is filled with individuals who would try to make one feel unwelcome... Of course, many of those individuals will also be found skulking in the local gay bar looking for their twink-fix... But hey, each to their own... :}

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 21:43

Wingco:

Thank you...

I actually stay with my sister just south of the river for free... So, despite the assertions by some that I am somehow jealous and have a chip on my shoulder, I really don't need the club. Establishments of ill repute are far more interesting than any that is filled with individuals who would try to make one feel unwelcome... Of course, many of those individuals will also be found skulking in the local gay bar looking for their twink-fix... But hey, each to their own... :}

Who or what hurt you AA? Feeling your pain fella, feeling your pain. Try licking a toad, apparently makes you happy - may take all the anger away.:ok:

Airborne Aircrew

26th Aug 2013, 21:46

Five minutes to a predictable response...

Tom, son... You're becoming a bit of a joke... Go do your lesson prep... You have children to lead... :ok:

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 21:49

Keep telling you , TV is crap. What's wrong fella, what happened to your philosophy of play the ball not the man? You remember that or have you switched again? Keep casting dude the water is still on that lake.;)

cuefaye

26th Aug 2013, 21:50

AA

You are truly the expert in winding people up - but as a member of the Club, I don't know how you maintain your pretence. See you in December!

Agaricus bisporus

26th Aug 2013, 22:25

The various references to "drunken slappers from council estates" are quite offensive.

Negat "references". ;)

Agaricus bisporus

26th Aug 2013, 22:26

The various references to "drunken slappers from council estates" are quite offensive.

Negat "references to". ;)

SOSL

26th Aug 2013, 22:27

Is that true, Airborne Aircrew? Are you really a member of the RAF Club?

Rgds SOS

smujsmith

26th Aug 2013, 22:28

With all these handbags flying, I'm glad I joined the Victory Services Club. Hardly a handbag ever swung there.

Smudge :ok:

Agaricus bisporus

26th Aug 2013, 22:31

The various references to "drunken slappers from council estates" are quite offensive.

Negat "references to". ;)

TomJoad

26th Aug 2013, 22:34

Is that true, Airborne Aircrew? Are you really a member of the RAF Club?

Rgds SOS

Seams to know too much about "skulking" activities - thought he protested too much:E

ShyTorque

26th Aug 2013, 23:02

I'm surprised that anyone would waste their August bank holiday (especially with such cracking weather too) arguing rather pointlessly about the RAF Club. I became eligible to use the facility in 1976. I went there once, during my officer training, when we were introduced to its "delights" during a London visit.

I found it to be a stuffy old place to be honest and therefore I haven't ever bothered to go back since, even though I do stay over in that neck of the woods quite often.

thing

27th Aug 2013, 00:11

I'm surprised that anyone would waste their August bank holiday (especially with such cracking weather too) arguing rather pointlessly about the RAF Club.

In between posts today I've taken my grandson to the Royal Armouries in Leeds, sat outside for an hour bored to death with my daughter at a car boot and resided mainly in the garden sipping beer, talking nonsense with the laptop within easy reach. Splendid way to spend a sunny Monday.

Had the weather been kinder this morning I would have fluged down to Bruntingthorpe to see the noisy jets running up and down the runway. Sadly it was foggles in Lincoln this a.m.

And no argument is pointless to an Englishman. Mind you as a clattercopter driver I'll excuse you the rational thinking...:ok:

cynicalint

27th Aug 2013, 00:26

Winco,
I have a great deal of sympathy for you and I agree with most of what you say. I find it a great shame that the likes of other ranks are barred from using the facility when frankly anyone else can, as long as you have never been non commissioned.

Oh dear, does that mean that branch officers and those who commission from the ranks cannot be members?

Airborne Aircrew

27th Aug 2013, 00:35

Cuefaye:

AA

You are truly the expert in winding people up - but as a member of the Club, I don't know how you maintain your pretence. See you in December! I might have to slip dates a day or two... Sister wants a big family Xmas but she wants it early so she, nephew and nieces can spend this year with her outlaws since we did last year with mum and dad... Hopefully it won't mess us up too much... Love to Judith... :ok:

Winco

27th Aug 2013, 05:54

cynicalint

What a silly question. Do try and act your age there's a good chap.
Of course it doesn't, and thereby lies the problem I guess. A WO can do his 22 years or whatever and NOT be allowed in, but after a five minute 'how to hold your knife and fork' lesson at cranwell, he can! What changes to that person? What is different about him?

The fact that today you can get commissioned on a fast-track basis IMHO negates all the nonesence about who can or more importantly who cannot be allowed to use the club.

It is NOT the RAF club, despite what the name says. It is the RAF Officers only club, and maybe thats why its not as good or as well supported as it used to be.

I am embarrassed to say that I know a great many officers who are not fit to be automatic members of the club and an even greater number of ORs who are.

cuefaye, I haven't been away. I just don't have the time these days reading drivvle from the likes of yourself Sir.

Pontius Navigator

27th Aug 2013, 06:53

I am embarrassed to say that I know a great many officers who are not fit to be automatic members of the club and an even greater number of ORs who are.

You said it.

Fortunately many of the former are not as regrettably the latter are not either.

Courtney Mil

27th Aug 2013, 08:17

Fortunately many of the former are not as regrettably the latter are not either.

Er, what? :confused:

goudie

27th Aug 2013, 08:51

(Un)Fortunately many of the former are not, as regrettably, the latter are not either.
That's makes more sense, I think.

SOSL

27th Aug 2013, 09:16

Hi, Winco. There is no such thing as automatic membership of the club.

Anyone who is eligible is entitled to submit an application form which must be signed by a proposer and a seconder who must both be full members.

Even this is no guarantee; it is not unknown for a candidate to be turned down (rare but not unknown).

The arrangements are slightly different for IOT students who, initially are not required to pay an annual membership subscription..

Also eligible candidates, who are unable to find a proposer and seconder, may be invited to an interview to decide whether they should be offered membership, or not.

Rgds SOS

Fire 'n' Forget

27th Aug 2013, 09:50

To stop TomJoad from continually making an idiot of himself by getting personal with another poster and missing the point I will attempt to get a question answered on here.

How many active serving members does the 'RAF' club currently have ?

How many retired RAF service members does the 'RAF' club currently have?

How many affiliate/non 'RAF' members does the 'RAF' club currently have ?

Can any of these questions be answered or is it taboo because it is 'commercially' sensitive or just private ? Do members get this information at say an AGM etc ?

Or is the 'RAF' :hmm: club terrified of publishing these numbers ?

BEagle

27th Aug 2013, 09:59

If you really feel the need to know these numbers, why not contact the Royal Air Force Club yourself?

Contact details may found on the Club website under 'Contact us'.

Avionker

27th Aug 2013, 10:10

As I said much earlier in this thread I personally have no issue with the membership criteria for the club. I was never, and will never be, eligible to join. I believe that the club should be run in whichever such way that the members see fit.

Having said that I cannot help thinking that if the club has to expand it's reach so to speak, why not consider accepting Warrant Officers as members?
Warrant Officers are well versed in military social protocol and tradition and also have very high standards of appearance and bearing. Surely they are a perfect "fit" for the club?

NutLoose

27th Aug 2013, 10:28

It is NOT the RAF club, despite what the name says. It is the RAF Officers only club, and maybe thats why its not as good or as well supported as it used to be.

And there is the Crux of the matter, it isn't a RAF Club it is an RAF Officers Club with a dwindling membership that is going to continue to reduce due to the demise of members who served when the RAF had hundreds of Squadrons and thousands of aircraft..

Getting past the name, they need to decide what they want to become, a Premier London Wedding / Conference venue with a bit tacked on the side for those Officers remaining, which as the RAF shrinks will become fewer and fewer.

This of course will then result in the facilities having to take on more and more outside catering etc to generate funding to maintain the place, which in doing so will reduce the facilities available for the RAF members use.

Or the other option is to widen the membership remit and accept other members of the RAF in, thus insuring its continuation as an RAF club and not a Wedding Venue which a few dwindling RAF members can still attend.

..

Winco

27th Aug 2013, 11:43

SOSL

You are quite correct of course in your statement about automatic membership, however, you and I both know that it is almost taken as read that any serving or retired officer will be allowed membership, and to be refused is virtually unheard of.

As NutLoose puts it (far better than I did) if the club (notice I didn't say RAF club!) wishes to remain 'RAF Orientated', then it must change with the times, otherwise it will go in the same decline as the UJ club did a few years ago. In that case, vast numbers of rooms were set aside for Eurostar train workers, resulting in even fewer rooms for servicemen and women, retired or otherwise.

As I have said, it matters not to me, but it would be sad to see the club dwindle into little less than a meeting place for a very select few who will end up fighting their corner against the influx of wedding ceromonies, union conferences and other 'less appropriate' events.

Airborne Aircrew

27th Aug 2013, 11:47

Come now Nutloose... There's far too much logic and good sense in that post. This is purely an emotional affair not a business issue. Please have a strong word with yourself. :}

TomJoad

27th Aug 2013, 12:31

Oh the irony. Be careful now, apparently we should not be using a public forum for a discussion on a private club. Don't know why but there you go some folk get upset by that.

Would appear then that sticking point for some is the name. It's clear that whatever the reason is some find the membership issue an emotive subject. Some others find it so outrageous that even though they have no interest in the Club can't help but coming back for further comment.:ugh:

It has been entertaining for sure, even got to learn about frogs and toads. The best of Pprune.:}

TomJoad

27th Aug 2013, 12:38

Does anybody know who actually owns the Club. By that I mean what is its business model?

SOSL

27th Aug 2013, 12:46

Hi again, Winco. Thanks for your speedy response.

you said to be refused is virtually unheard of.

Not true. I said "rare. but not unheard of" which is not the same at all.

The RAF Club has changed with the times, in a big way, so that seems to be OK and the club is reaping the benefit.

I hadn't heard that the Union Jack Club had gone into decline, what a shame! I haven't stayed there in a long time now, but I enjoyed it when I did.

Also you said

it would be sad to see the club dwindle into little less than a meeting place for a very select few who will end up fighting their corner against the influx of wedding ceromonies, union conferences and other 'less appropriate' events

Well I don't suppose it would be too sad for you, would it?

When it comes to the "influx" of wedding ceremonies .... and other 'less appropriate events'. maybe a word or two of explanation might help here.

As a number of posters on this thread have taken some pleasure in pointing out the number of eligible candidates for membership is declining.

Therefore the RAF Club, quite sensibly, is seeking other sources of revenue. One of which, among many, was to set up a trading company.

In 2003 (if my memory serves) the RAF Club set up a separate, non-charitable commercial trading company: The RAF Club Trading Company, managed by it's own board of directors.

The RAFCTC was empowered to use the premises at 128 Piccadilly (The RAF Club clubhouse) for the purpose of generating income for the RAF Club by providing a venue for functions, meetings and gatherings of all sorts with the options of catering, multimedia and other facilities.

Nonetheless, by far the majority of functions in the club building are still sponsored by members, for instance, my Mum, who is an associate member (e.g. widow of ....) sponsored my 50th birthday party in the club.

However, the trading company takes valuable commercial bookings for functions in what is after all a prime, central London venue. These functions are very carefully managed and by and large do not affect the members enjoyment of their club.

It's understandable that outsiders would mistake the clientele of the RAFCTC for members of the RAF Club, when attending commercial functions in the clubhouse, but that is simply not the case, they are not members but they are a source of revenue.

Rgds SOS

SOSL

27th Aug 2013, 13:03

Hi TomJoad.

The RAF Clubhouse, at 128 Piccadilly, is owned by the RAF Club Company, which was set up in 1918 by the then Lord Cowdray. The company is directed by a small board of directors whose prime objective, I believe, is the continued well being of the club.

The Royal Air Force Club is a charity owned by its members and governed by a board of trustees according to its charitable objectives, these are in the public domain and can be found on the Charity Commission web site..

The "business model" is that it is a members club, largely financed by subscription but it has a number of revenue centres - accommodation - beverages - functions and a non-charitable trading company. As far as I know the food served in the various outlets within the club is subsidised from the revenue centres.

Hope that helps.

Rgds SOS

Once A Brat

27th Aug 2013, 13:14

....Oh my, I cannot believe that this (second) thread has run for 10 pages!!

I know I stated my reasons for leaving the club in the first thread - It was my personal view that perhaps the club should look inwards to the SNCO/WO Cadre rather than outwards to those with a tenuous association. I was staggered that my comment then launched a whole set of thread creep of OQs vs SNCO standards, I am even more staggered that this thread has run and run and run.

If you are a member and disagree with the membeship criteria, then do something. If you are not a member, by all means have an opinion but accept you get 'no vote'.

Something along the lines of "those with nothing to worry about, worry about nothing" springs to mind!

Fire 'n' Forget

27th Aug 2013, 13:15

So almost everyone comes on here for information Beagle but if I ask for some surely pertinent questions on an 'RAF' Club I have to go and ask the Club instead of some people on here who actually know ?

Mmmm sounds like "pull up the drawbridge" to me ;) or would the membership and types of numbers be embarrassing to an 'RAF' club ?

Come on blow off the moths RAF Club and let us know? :hmm:

fantom

27th Aug 2013, 13:17

As an aside, next time you are there, visit next door C+G and, behind the porter's desk down the staircase, you can view quite the most amazing collection of medals and awards imaginable to ONE family.

Winco

27th Aug 2013, 13:33

SOSL

I won't argue about whether or not 'rare, but not unheard of' is the same as 'virtually unheard of' it matters not frankly.

The point I am trying to make is this...

The name of the club is wrong, I think we all pretty much agree on that and that is what is upsettijng people on this forum. The club must change in order to retain it's RAF heritage, and I think we all agree on that. And the club MUST find new ways of raising membership, thus raising income and revenue and thus securing its future, and that is widley agreed also. Selling some meorablia wont save it.

So why then, when its accepted that the club can have wedding receptions there, when it can have conferences there, and when pretty much 'all and sundry' can be invited and are very often accepted, why-oh-why can we not open it up to other ranks of the RAF? I find it all quite bizarre frankly.

I know that someone will come along and say 'well, thats not what it was intended for' and they would be correct. But it was never intended for the hosting of lots of things either, and the club is turning a blind eye to that. I do genuingly think that this would be a very quick and simple solution to the problem of 'Military/service membership' and encourage more and more current OR servicemen to visit.

As for it not being sad for me, of course I would be sad. Just because I don't frequent the place doesn't mean that I am happy for our heritage to be diminished at all. On the contrary, I it's even more important that in these days of austerity, we keep hold of what little we have!

BEagle

27th Aug 2013, 13:48

SOSL, having read the last AGM minutes, it is readily apparent that the Royal Air Force Club is looking very healthy.

Members were privy to proposals regarding membership criteria a couple or so years ago and the resulting decisions have clearly been successful.

Airborne Aircrew

27th Aug 2013, 14:25

Beagle:

the resulting decisions have clearly been successfulIndeed, success comes in many forms doesn't it... :E

http://bios.weddingbee.com/pics/107766/53361-russian_wedding_cleavage.jpghttp://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/6f/a9/e6/6fa9e67a27d9f398159f2a84ec6e5a8e.jpg

http://mlkshk.com/r/HFKRhttp://cakecoaching.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/funny-wedding-photos-you-bad1.jpg

alex margou

27th Aug 2013, 14:36

May I ask a couple of questions?

Winco says "The name of the club is wrong, I think we all pretty much agree on that ..." Does any one here know whether there is any feeling within the Club, from the members, that the name of the club is wrong? Or is it just not an issue for them?

Also, Avionker asks "why not consider accepting Warrant Officers as members?" This must have been put to the Club's management committee. Does anyone know what their response was? Does anyone know what was the official reason given for not taking up this suggestion?

TomJoad

27th Aug 2013, 14:41

Pretty much on form, again oh the irony

Winco

27th Aug 2013, 14:53

Please, in the name of all that is holy, please please tell me that these events didn't happen at the club?

500N

27th Aug 2013, 14:57

Couldn't have.

The two right hand photos are Airborne's children getting married,
(the one's with the tatts :O)

The big boobed one is Slashers wedding, RIP Slasher !

The dark skinned one was an accident AA had when on det
to some foreign location ;)

gr4techie

27th Aug 2013, 14:58

So the above photos can go in the club but a guy who risked his life as SNCO aircrew flying missions over Germany in WW2 isn't welcome?
Unless he went for a commission as a clipboard holder in an office, in which case the clubs attitude towards the same person would do a 180 turn overnight.

SOSL

27th Aug 2013, 15:01

Thanks for your reply Winco and I'm sorry if I offended you with regard to the heritage issue, I didn't mean to.

I don't think the name of the club matters a fig; but just imagine the paperwork and cost to change it now!

As for the weddings and "all and sundry" etc. Maybe I didn't make it clear.

AS I understand it:

The RAF Club Company owns the building at 128 Piccadilly.

The RAF Club and its members are allowed to use the building as a social and residential clubhouse.

The RAF Club Company owns the RAF Club Trading Company.

The RAF Club Trading Company is allowed to use rooms in the building as venues for events to generate revenue for the RAF Club.

The RAF Club Trading Company and the RAF Club are a bit like lodger units in the same building.

Customers of the RAF Club Trading Company have nothing to do with the RAF Club - they are not invited in by the club. They make bookings with the trading company for their event, they turn up, they enjoy themselves, they pay for the service provided and then they go away.

As for "all and sundry" being accepted; the trading company has a process which checks bookings to make sure they are not inadvertently allowing undesirable factions (such as criminal or banned organizations) to hold meetings etc in the clubhouse, these won't be accepted.

If LAC Smith and his delightful young fiancée want to book their wedding in the clubhouse at 128 Piccadilly and hold a reception for all their family and friends, in the ballroom, they are entirely at liberty to do so by making a booking with the trading company.

If Warrant Officer Niceguy and his close family would like to celebrate his retirement from the RAF with a quiet luncheon in the boardroom, all he has to do is pick up the phone and call the trading company.

The RAF Club has criteria for eligibility, that is what defines a members' club. The RAF Club Trading Company is a commercial organization which will accept bookings from any respectable individual or organization.

Rgds SOS

Tiger_mate

27th Aug 2013, 15:14

500N said in jest:
The dark skinned one was an accident AA had when on det
to some foreign location

If only you knew!!!!

Raouls Rose Garden anyone?

FWIW I presonally dont give a s*** how the RAF Club is run, however if pressed, I would far rather see membership extended to at least SNCO or Warrant Officer then see it abused IMHO as a run of the mill wedding location or corporate meeting point for folk without a drop of military blood in their body. Corporate survival involves progress that is often bitter (See how close to collapse M&S got before they took credit cards) and allowing standards to reach rock bottom before venturing down the tasteful expansion (of membership criteria) route is potential economic suicide. Lets face it, even some Mess' will eventually have to be collaborative, as a minimum a common kitchen with individual dining wings.