Australian type rating preferred

[pilotchute]

Just to let everyone know first I did use the search function and didn't come up with anything.
I have just been told that Tiger and Jetstar wont accept A320 endorsed applicants who have done the rating outside Australia. The excuse given was that the ratings done overseas were of an "inferior" quality to the ones done in Melbourne and Brisbane.

I know you can get a bus rating in the US for around 13k AUD. The price here is apparently 30K AUD for the short course and 35K AUD for the long course! Can someone please tell me what the extra 22k AUD goes to or is it just a case of there isn't any competition so they can charge what they like?

If the rating was so inferior why do CASA let you put it on your licence when you get back from the USA in the first place?

[Going Nowhere]

Didn't seem to worry JQ recently when they sent a few groundschools to the UK for their endorsement!

[LeadSled]

Pilotchute,
A full and comprehensive two word answer: Parochialism and Prejudice.
Tootle pip!!

[porch monkey]

Got it in 2! Oh, and no cut for the airline of course !

[compressor stall]

There is a significant difference in the content of a couple of A320 courses in the US and the Alteon product here in Oz. The US courses cover more than 43% of the Alteon course as you prices dictate could imply, but several significant omissions nonetheless.

I had heard on the grapevine that CASA are aware of his and were thinking of taking steps to put a stop to overseas cheap endorsements. It could be that they can't prevent it so are applying pressure through the operator.

[waren9]

jetstar, in the past atleast, had a vested interest because they charged a facilitation fee.

not sure if thats still the case.

plenty at jq have done endorsements outside aus.

[TexanPilot]

Pilotchute

Can I ask where you heard this?

[morno]

Tiger accept overseas 'type ratings'.

Your information is incorrect.

morno

[TheColonel]

Morno is spot on. Tiger definitely accepts overseas type rating and even told recent guys at interviews to go and do it in the usa :cool:

[TexanPilot]

Exactly what I was told in interview.

[pilotchute]

My info came from a pilot who recently left Tiger. When he was hired he was told specifically that he had to go to Ansett in Melbourne, Alteon in Brisbane or CAE in Kuala Lumpur. No other TRTO would be acceptable.

He was unaware of a policy change.

[manymak]

Where did the mindset originate that endorsements/type ratings conducted in Australia were more superior to those from overseas?

[Ollie Onion]

Didn't you know, the Aussies invented aviation and know how to fly aircraft better than everyone else :ugh:

[haughtney1]

Didn't you know, the Aussies invented aviation and know how to fly aircraft better than everyone else

Now now Ollie, lets not get all revisionist, the Ozzies didn't invent aviation or flying for that matter, the accepted version of events is that a couple of bike mechanic brothers did it in Kitty Hawk North Carolina.
The Ozzies as they will most certainly tell you....merely perfected it :ugh::hmm::ugh: ...after all, look at the number of ex space shuttle commanders still working in aviation in Oz........it must be a battle to get through each day knowing how superior their skill set is in comparison to others...

[sheppey]

There is a significant difference in the content of a couple of A320 courses in the US and the Alteon product here in Oz. The US courses cover more than 43% of the Alteon course as you prices dictate could imply, but several significant omissions nonetheless.


If the Alteon product is so good, how come CASA stepped in earlier this year and withdrew its approval for Alteon to conduct A320 type rating courses?
Rumour on the grapevine only, of course. ;)

[compressor stall]

I didn't say it was good!

However some of the stuff I was told that was not covered in the US course was surprising.

[pilotchute]

CS,

I'm keen to know what isn't covered so I can understand how its worth the extra 22k.

[flyhardmo]

It could be that they can't prevent it so are applying pressure through the operator.

Most likely the other way around with operators applying pressure on the regulator so candidates pay the 'approved' course.
Has an investigation been done into collusion and possible price fixing between sim training organisations in Australia. Not accusing but an interesting point that pilotchute brought up into what exactly is worth the extra 22K.

[pilotchute]

After a bit more digging I have come up with some interesting observations.

Now that you don't need a letter from an A320 operator to do a type rating at Ansett, Tiger no longer require you to do the rating in Australia.

Apparently you needed the letter cause Ansett would use the Tiger manuals to train you with if you were going to work for them.

Suspicious?

[haughtney1]

I'm keen to know what isn't covered so I can understand how its worth the extra 22k.

Its most likely the multiple de-orbit burns, and dead-stick landing practice down to CAT3 landing mins with a basic panel, no flaps, and a fire in the cargo hold. Thats just the first 10 minutes of the session! :}

[pilotchute]

Is that the "Landing on the Hudson" add on session?

[Mach E Avelli]

As well as factoring in travel and accommodation and the exchange rate, plus any costs to have CASA process your application, you need to consider whether the USA training can include an Instrument Rating renewal.
Then, whether to take the risk of saving a few bucks and missing out against a candidate who did the type rating here to a known syllabus and presents with 12 months of instrument rating.
Having done type ratings under several jurisdictions I know that the training in the USA is every bit as good as it is here, but if you want the job you simply have to play the game according to the rules on the day.

[JPJP]

There is a significant difference in the content of a couple of A320 courses in the US and the Alteon product here in Oz. The US courses cover more than 43% of the Alteon course as you prices dictate could imply, but several significant omissions nonetheless.

I had heard on the grapevine that CASA are aware of his and were thinking of taking steps to put a stop to overseas cheap endorsements. It could be that they can't prevent it so are applying pressure through the operator.


Interesting - I completed one of those "cheap endorsements" during my Command course ..... at Alteon in the U.S. The training center was built by Boeing to support the airline I work for.

Alteon was a Boeing company. It is now called Boeing Training and Flight Services. Alteon no longer exists. The Alteon in Australia that you hold in such high regard, over those cheap U.S. Courses, is a U.S. company.

[Metro man]

If this is your first jet DO NOT try and save money with an abbreviated course, it will cost you big time. Pay for the long version so you can get through the base and line checks when you start.

Abbreviated courses are for experienced airliner pilots who know airline flying already and are just learning the aircraft.

Once you have a decent experience level on type an employer is usually far less concerned about where you did the training, as long as you perform in the SIM. But for zero hours on type joiners quality training is vital, the training department want to get people on the line as quickly and cheaply as possible, and not have to sort out deficiencies.

If something is much cheaper than the competition there is usually a reason.:hmm:

[JPJP]

Where did the mindset originate that endorsements/type ratings conducted in Australia were more superior to those from overseas?

Probably in the same place as the idea that pilots should pay for their own endorsements, instead of the airline.

[kellykelpie]

I do think there is a different standard depending on where you do the endorsement. The guys/ girls that did endorsements in Miami at a certain TRTO didn't have the level of understanding that others had during their final training/checks in the sim. After 1000 hours on type it probably doesn't matter but it does show up early on. Cheap endorsement = cheap performance from my experience.

[compressor stall]

The Alteon in Australia that you hold in such high regard

No I never have and didn't.

If you reread my posts I was pointing out that some of the US courses omitted some of the more complex abnormals which were covered in the then Alteon course.

[downwind]

Go to Air New Zealand or Lufthansa flight training they provide a excellent A320 type rating.

[Centaurus]

Abbreviated courses are for experienced airliner pilots who know airline flying already and are just learning the aircraft.


I must say I have never heard of a type rating long course or a short course. Obviously there is a financial advantage for the provider to offer a long course. Isn't there a normal type rating syllabus that meets the CASA command type rating requirements? If so, is that supposed to be a normal course? And what simulator provider offers these "abbreviated" courses or long courses?

And who determines the difference between long and abbreviated courses - CASA? Does the two types of course only apply to the A320? Or do they also apply to other types like the 737 NG and 777 and 787?

Methinks candidates for type ratings need to closely scrutinise the thinking behind this curious state of affairs. Is this peculiar to Australia? Do the manufacturers (Boeing and Airbus) offer "abbreviated" courses and what criteria is used?