Club or flight school?

[konceppt]

Hi all,

I want to do my ppl and im not sure what route to go down.There is a flying school near me Commercial and Private Pilot Flight Training, Flying Lessons, Gift Experiences - Stapleford Flight Centre, London, UK (http://www.flysfc.com/) but im not sure that its a club so I can do my ppl there but I don't know what to do after that in terms of flying for leisure.
However there are a few clubs that I can also do my ppl through but it doesn't seem any cheaper and more or less work the same way in terms of hire charges etc after passing.
What is the best route and should I just get a standard bank loan to pay for the ppl course?

[foxmoth]

The terms flying school and club are generally synonymous, and at most you can both learn to fly then hire afterwards. I would recommend you find a school/club that you are happy with (lots of advice on here if you look), then, once you have your licence, do a few hours consolidation and have a look at what you want to do with your flying - touring, aeros, Tailwheel etc.

[Whopity]

Once upon a time there were Aeroclubs which were largely committee run organisations for non profit. Over the years they have largely disappeared except for private clubs i.e. Military, and Company recreational facilities. Most Aeroclubs became limited companies to limit the liability of members.

The word flying club is used in law, but there is no legal definition of such a club so it can be anything!

[konceppt]

so once I pass ppl (fingers crossed)
what is the best way to enjoy the hobby? surely just hiring per hour from a school/club will work out very expensive?
Can you hire for a week,fly to your destination and stay there.Then fly back or are you charged for every hour you have the plane?
That would make a holiday in the uk more expensive than using an airline to go abroad
I have so much to learn and I am certain its something I want to do but I also have to try to justify the cost (to my wife) :-)

[Whopity]

Normally a school will charge a minimum number of hours per day to equate to the hours it would have flown if it had not gone away. Hiring is expensive if you do a lot of hours, owning is expensive if you don't. Somewhere there is a break even point.

[konceppt]

I always thought that owning would be way out of my price range but I have seen some planes for sale for no more than a decent family car.Obviously buying a plane is an alien world to me so i'd have to do some serious research into this.I cant see the point in doing a ppl and only flying a few times a year which is how it would work out if I was hiring I think.A couple of hours hire would be the equivelant of a weeks holiday in cornwall etc

Lets say I purchased a Cessna 150 for £15,000,what would be the cost of ownership in terms of yearly costings?
Are these sub 20k planes actually any good or are they all at the end of their life?
I have seen a few Europa xs' for sale in the same price range.As far as I understand,they are homebuilds.Would you buy a plane that someone else built at home or would I be better to build myself assuming I had space and the knowledge

[Maoraigh1]

You won't know what flying you enjoy until you've done enough hours AFTER your PPL to feel relaxed. The cheapest option then is to buy a share in a Group. The really expensive option is to buy a share, or your own aircraft, and then discover it's the wrong aircraft for you. Or even that you don't really like flying.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

That would make a holiday in the uk more expensive than using an airline to go abroad
Yes it is, vastly more expensive. Even without a "minimum three hours per day" policy you're still looking at £100-£300 each way for a flight within the UK, and if you're not too fussy about where or when you go the LoCos will take you to much of Europe for a fraction of that price.

[konceppt]

So then would owning my own plane be a cheaper option in the long run?
What would be the yearly cost of owning a beginner type single engine plane myself?

I cant get my head round the cost of buying a plane.I have seen Cessna 152's from £5000 (and less in some cases) up to £25k plus?

Looking at the cost of renting.I don't think I'd afford many hours in a year.Once you own,do you simply pay fuel?

[Maoraigh1]

Looking at the cost of renting.I don't think I'd afford many hours in a year
Then you won't be able to afford your own aircraft.
The £5000 C150 is cheap because it will soon need a BIG expence to get it airworthy.
If you have the skills and time to do your own maintenance, and land for your own strip, and a shed for a hangar, an Evans VP1 might be affordable.
Otherwise look at a local LAA type Group share - they already know their costs.

[G-F0RC3]

Welcome to the world of aviation. It's as expensive as getting married every couple of years! ;)

To be honest, if you are looking to fly as a hobby but will only be able to afford a few hours per year then it won't be a viable hobby financially no matter which way you choose to do it. Even keeping your SEP(L) rating current will require you to fly more hours than that - something that doesn't seem to have been mentioned above. :sad:

[Johnm]

To run a mid range aeroplane like a Cessna 172 with four seats will cost around £5000 to £10000 per year in maintenance parking and insurance before you fly a single hour.

[riverrock83]

Not all clubs are gone. The one I belong to is still run by a committee...
There is (however) only two aircraft available for general hire, one is a Chippy (very expensive for good reason) and one is an ageing PA28 which is owned by a group, which has been winding down over time. There is talk at the moment of buying a club owned aircraft, the first for many many years.

I do feel like a member of the club (I'm also a share owner in an aircraft based there). There are normally a few people around to talk to and there are flyouts organised from time to time. Various airline captains and ex-RAF people around to provide many stories! A number of people go on trips together often. I've also sat in passenger seats when others were flying, just for the fun of it, without any charge (including in a twin which didn't get off the ground due to engine issues, and a float plane). It does mean that I have pulled my weight - hoovering, painting and washing cups.

There is a training establishment at my airfield too. The atmosphere is much more "business like". It is also very friendly, but people don't stay around to chat. Personally I prefer the club. However, I'm sure there is a combination of both at many places.

[Heston]

Assuming you are only interested in flying for leisure then 3-axis microlights have got to be the way to go. Say £5k to get your licence (less if you work hard) and about the cost of a car to buy, maintain and insure (and these costs typically will be over the same range that you might expect for a car, so anything from £3k to £80k to buy).

www.bmaa.org (http://www.bmaa.org) is a good place to look, and here Three-axis Microlights, For Sale with ads approximately old, page 1 of 30 (http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=browse&cat=SALE&sec=TAXI&loc=&make=&age=&price=&adage=&needle=&search=search)

Limitations - only one passenger, daytime VFR, no aerobatics.

The microlight world tends to be very club orientated so you'll find lots of support and guidance after you've qualifed, too.