Sun clips in aviation

[Stanley1985]

Hi everyone

I will be in Perth jandakot from nov 13 to jan 14 for my ppl(a) full time. I have a few queries about sun clips.

1) how useful are sun clips, as compared to the conventional shades?

2) what tint is usually recommended for general aviation?

I have myopia, but unsuitable for LASIK and prolonged use of contact lens. So I will have to stick to my glasses.

Thank you for your time.

Stanley

[tmmorris]

Hmm. I've always used prescription sunglasses; more expensive but more reliable, though you do need to cultivate the art of flying with your knees (or at least properly in trim!) while changing glasses.

Tim

[Ebbie 2003]

I use clip on - find them very usable - I have prescription dunglasses too but prefer being able to flip the shades on and off - very useful when conditions become gloomy and then there is break out into sun shine - also mesns I use one primary pair of glasses for both day and night.

[172driver]

Try to get graduated ones (not sure they exist), as the inside of the cockpit tends to be a lot darker than the outside. I wear prescription glasses that I had specifically made for flying - graduated bi-focals.

[tecman]

You might want to do a search as I've previously seen several threads on this topic. Polarized lenses produce odd effects in many aircraft windows, especially in bubble cockpits. Get some neutral density, rather than polarized, sunglasses if you can. Or do what we Perth locals do and buy a cool cap :)

[Stanley1985]

Hi Tecman!

Nice to know that you are from Perth. Besides sun clips, I have other queries which I hope you can help me with.

1) does a cap really suffice up in the air? I will train in a Aquila a210 with full glass cockpit. Sun clips here in Singapore cost sgd 100. If a cap is enough, I can save on the sun clips and spend on fish and chips there!

2) what kind of insurance do student and private pilots usually buy?

3) I have short listed acft as my training school, and will be staying at the jandakot airport Chalet for the 3 months there. Is there another school that you would highly recommend?

Thank you for your time!

Stanley

[tecman]

Stanley, with regard to the sunnies, I would recommend you wait until you get here to see if the clip-ons offer you anything. Apart from the cockpit bubble distortions, there are lots of variables to do with the type of EFIS screens, your view angle, etc. If you hit the wrong combination, a bubble canopy and the WA sun will render the panel essentially unreadable.

I fly a Tecnam P2002JF (bubble canopy) and, mostly out of a preference developed over years of flying in remote places, use only a cap or hat for shade. In addition you'll need a good sunscreen lotion. My aircraft has mostly analog instruments which is just as well: with my height and view angles, its glass panel equivalents are unreadable to me. More shaded panels in other aircraft work better, but I invariably end up feeling claustrophobic in anything other than a bubble these days.

Check with the school re insurance but my guess is that aircraft and public liability are almost certainly all covered. If you want coverage on yourself, you may have to arrange something extra and, of course, not all existing personal insurance policies will automatically cover flight training. I'm no expert here, so it's important to get the information from the school.

I don't know ACFT personally but I hear they are OK. Minovation also get good marks on the rumour network. As with all training anywhere in the world, don't hand over large amounts of cash in advance. If you fancied the quiet life out of the city, Bunbury Aero Club are excellent but Jandakot will certainly expose you to a busier training environment, which has both positives and negatives.

[LeadSled]

---- but my guess is that aircraft and public liability are almost certainly all covered.

Tecman and others,

Please don't guess about things that could financially cripple you.

In fact, the most common insurance carried by flying schools will only pay out the school, and have provision for the insurance company to sue the hirer of the aircraft to recover what has been paid out to the school.

Most schools I have seen only insure the aircraft, and have the workers compo required by law, and do not carry insurance for third party personal or property cover.

Given that every state and the Commonwealth has a "damages by aircraft" statute, buy whatever name, and they are "absolute liability" --- demand to see the insurance covered by the organisation, and if they refuse, or it is too complicated to make the provisions of who is insured for what, walk away.

You would be very wise to negotiate a comprehensive cover for yourself, to few do, and getting caught out is usually a like changing experience.

Tootle pip!!

[tecman]

LS

We're in violent agreement about the need to check the insurance situation with the individual school.

I have been, and currently am, associated with policies that are apparently more robust than those you describe in the face of public liability claims flowing from accidents during hire and training. That said, I've never read a policy that limits an insurance company's right to sue who they choose if they judge there are grounds for doing so. You may well be correct in saying that more restrictive policies are common, emphasizing the need for OP to have the conversation with the training organization.

To complicate things a bit in regard to personal insurance, I don't know if the OP is an Australian resident or citizen. I could imagine an insurance hell situation in which he couldn't buy Oz insurance and wasn't covered by his policies in his country of origin. But with the number of international students at YPJT, his training organization should be able to give him some pointers to authoritative advice channels.

I mention the personal insurance because I had a similar situation when living in Europe. In the end, having satisfied myself of proper aircraft and third party coverage, I elected to hire/fly as a PPL with no personal coverage from my work/expat policy. Obviously, individuals need to make such a decision based on their own circumstances and judgement. Insurance is part of life but it's not for obsessing on.

I meant to tell the OP that there is now a discount chemist store which sells clip-on sunglasses at the airport. If the insurance companies get their hooks into him, the 'discount' aspect may be relevant :)

[LeadSled]

tecman,
The "standard" wording of most aviation policies I have seen "automatically" give the insurance company that has covered a hire/aircraft gives the insurer the right to sue a third party for recovery if, in their view, the third part (the pilot) was responsible for or contributed to the insurance company's loss.
It is usually a bit of a tussle to have this subrogation clause struck from a policy without a swinging premium increase.
Definition of 'Subrogation'

A term denoting a legal right that is reserved by most insurance carriers. Subrogation is the right for an insurer to pursue a third party that caused an insurance loss to the insured. This is done as a means of recovering the amount of the claim paid to the insured for the loss.
Example 'Subrogation'

An example of subrogation is when an insured driver's car is totalled through the fault of another driver. The insurance carrier will reimburse the covered driver under the terms of the policy and then pursue legal action against the driver at fault. If the carrier is successful, it must divide the amount recovered after expenses proportionately with the insured to repay any deductible paid by the insured.

Beware!! I will not fly anybody's aeroplane unless I am a named insured on the policy.

Also be aware that the usual consumer protections inherent in doing business with an insurance company, by and large, exempt aviation insurers.

Tootle pip!!

[Stanley1985]

Hi all

I am a Singaporean looking to get a ppl overseas due to the small and restricted airspace and exorbitant flying costs in Singapore. I know of many private pilots who trained and gotten their ppl in jandakot, hence my decision to go there. Even our national carrier, sia, sends cadets there. So there must be something good.

I have personal insurance policies in Singapore, and have also travel insurance to cover incidents not related to flight training. I have emailed my flying school to obtain more information on student and private pilot insurance.

Is there any concern which a student pilot should have, and which I have left out?

Thank you!

[tecman]

LS
Your summary is a good one and that knowledge formed part of the background when I was most recently insurance shopping. I can see why a particular world view and circumstances might lead one to demand to be named on the policy, although it's not a view I share. In any case, the discussion has hopefully primed the OP with some pertinent questions.

Stanley,
If you've got the aircraft, third party and personal insurance licked, and resolved the issue of the sunnies, you'll do just fine at YPJT and in Perth - it's a great place. Flying will be a doddle compared with driving: just remember that under no circumstances should you be tempted to use the indicators, nor to give an inch in any attempted merge!

[Stanley1985]

Thank you all for your precious inputs!

Decided to get a neutral grey pair of sun clips, plus a hat for my training. Should suffice for protection against the Perth sun I hope.

Anyway, what are some of the most-used apple apps in aviation?