Aerobatics Rating Cost

[johnwells3366]

Hey

Just what people paid for their aerobatics rating recently and what did it include

Cheers

[airwolf117]

I got mine in 5 hours, but didn't get a tailwheel at the time (odd training school format..but anyway), but got a tailwheel in 2h many months later. I did spins, aileron roll, stall turns, loops and some advanced upset recovery. I found 5 hours to be plenty, and I'm no topgun. All Done in a citabria, which is a great aircraft to learn in.

OK...now my recommendation - Gerry at Australian Aerobatic, Redcliffe. Did my tailwheel with him. He's a great guy, great company and really no-nonsense approach to flying.

He quotes the rating at $1800 on the website for people already with a tailwheel, and $1200 for the tailwheel. He also offers a $3100 bundle for tailwheel, CSU and EXTREME Decathlon (thing is a beast).

Link: Welcome to Aerobatics Australia (http://www.australianaerobatics.com/)

[OZ-G10]

I'd second Gerry as well. Did all the stuff that airwolf stated and there's no airs and graces, no pressure, casual atmosphere and that new Decathalon is a beauty. I'll be going back to do some more advanced stuff with him.:ok:

[sheppey]

I'll be going back to do some more advanced stuff with him

Difficult to imagine "Advanced" stuff in a Citabria that cruises at 100 knots. Isn't "advanced" nothing more than normal aerobatics like we did in RAAF Tiger Moths soon after first solo?

[LeadSled]

------ nothing more than normal aerobatics like we did in RAAF Tiger Moths soon after first solo?
Sheppey,
That sounds about right, although not ex-mil, I did all the basic aerobatics during initial training, but in AU it has to be all dressed up and dramatised.
No such thing as a tail wheel endorsement then, either.
But, obviously, with all this extra bureaucracy to protect us, the standards must be much better ???
Ain't "progress" grand.
Tootle pip!!

PS:
EXTREME Decathlon (thing is a beast).
Quite how any derivative of the Champion Traveller, regardless of horsepower installed, could be called Extreme or a beast is beyond me.

[Runaway Gun]

Try a 210hp engine, with aerodynamic and other modifications, and you will get a much advanced performing aerobatic machine. Sure, it's no Extra 330, but it's a much easier aircraft for 90% of pilots out there to fly.

Google 'Greg Koontz' and try emulating his aerobatics ;)

[duncan_g]

This is she. Without spats, but you get the idea.


http://i.imgur.com/4pgsaSX.jpg

[djpil]

Page 21 of CAAP 155-1 (http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/155_1.pdf) describes the upright spin and the aerobatic endorsements defined by the CAO. The CAAP also recommends aerobatic competency standards and describes the knowledge (recommended for aerobatics but mandated for spins per the CASA Day VFR Syllabus) so expect some good briefings along with the flying.
I see many aerobatic courses which do not include all the manoeuvres listed in the CAO - the CAAP explains: A pilot may perform any combinations of the manoeuvres endorsed and needs no further endorsement to perform other manoeuvres not listed in the Order. I also run across many aerobatic pilots who have no idea of some of the underpinning knowledge requirements for an upright spin endorsement. Combined with spin training not really venturing into fully developed spins - can be scary how little they really understand about spinning and recovery.

Some changes coming at the end of the year with the new Part 61 (MOS has the aerobatic endorsement details but still in draft). Some years for the transition but as instructors and schools transition to the new system people will start getting the new-fangled aerobatic endorsement - list of manoeuvres is different (shorter) and mandates recoveries from unusual attitudes.
UAs (recovery from failed aerobatic manoeuvres) should be in a current aerobatic course now but some schools skimp on this. The draft MOS now actually has standards for aerobatic competence (from the CAAP introduced a few years ago).

Incidentally, I wonder how CASA will transition those with existing aerobatic endorsements - will they look at logbook entries to check conformance with the ANO or CAO in effect at the time of the endorsement? Perhaps now is a good time for us to collect evidence of logbook endorsements to include on our existing licences.

Leadslead might've mentioned that neither the USA nor UK have aerobatic endorsements nor require training before undertaking it - common sense seems to work fairly well in those countries. Of course, EASA is coming to the UK with its usual most onerous of all worlds approach - but an EASA aerobatic rating will only be required if some-one is flying an aeroplane registered per the EASA system which will exclude most aerobatic aeroplanes in the UK apparently.

As for the Xtreme Decathlon - goes better than my Pitts S-2A, rolls not quite as briskly and I still won't snap a Decathlon with the history of damage to ribs and fuel tanks.

For those of you doing or wanting to do formation aerobatics - there is a new formation aerobatic endorsement required - good luck getting that.

PS: Duncan - there will be a Super D also available in your part of the world soon too.

[VH-XXX]

The topic of this thread scares me a little (no offence intended to the poster).

Aerobatics Rating Cost

Don't ever think of an aerobatic rating as a simple endorsement that costs $2,000 or whatever it costs.

It is the first component of a lengthy skill building process, sometimes lasting a lifetime.

Getting yourself signed off for aero's is great, but it's something you need to continue to practice, develop and keep current at.

[OZ-G10]

Beat me to it runaway. I saw Greg Koontz at Oshkosh in 2012 and up until then would not have thought a Decathalon was capable of some of the stuff he was doing and after chatting with him quickly realised it was more than enough aeroplane to do what I was looking for. I had fun and went home happy, for some of our Pprune living legends it might not be challenging enough though!

[Runaway Gun]

I'll chat to you about it personally next time I'm at Gerry's hangar.

[Jack Ranga]

OZ-G10, could not have your last post better if I'd thought about it for a week :ok:

[LeadSled]

Leadslead might've mentioned that neither the USA nor UK have aerobatic endorsements nor require training before undertaking it

Folks,
I really (no! not really) don't understand how the rest of the world consistently manages to commit aviation without the benefit of Australia cubic meters of "regulations.

Has anybody seen Albo's latest comedy routine --- the one where he says that our neighbors should look to us for a mature aviation regulatory experience.

And --- he doesn't mean "mature" as in a smelly old cheese. Our neighbors certainly do look to Australia for regulatory experience ---- of how NOT to do it.

Tootle pip!!

[aroa]

Never mind the "white noise" produced by the Miniscule AA...hopefully come 07/09 he'll be yesterdays man. Once a rooster , now a feather duster.!! :ok:

Out major problem will be to get someone with SOME interest in aviation instead of NONE. :mad:

[johnwells3366]

Cheers Airwolf and everyone else.

VH-XXX your post perplexes me??? Not personally knowing anyone with an aero rating I would be an id!ot if I didnt try and find out what other people paid. Calling a few companies and taking their word that they are good value does not seem to be the way to me.

All things being equal I would much rather pay $2000 rather than $3000 for my "first component" and then use the other $1000 further my skills

[VH-XXX]

As I said the comment wasn't directed at you, it was a general comment around people's perception of starting down the aerobatic path. Be perplexed all you want if it makes you happy.

[OZ-G10]

John, if you pick it up quickly and don't make yourself sick after the first 5min of each flight it'll cost you less, if it takes a bit longer then it costs a bit more. Just have fun and learn something.

[johnwells3366]

I did some areos in a 152 many years ago when I was about 14 as an xmas prezzie so hopefuly the stomach still holds up lol