What Did You Do In The Cold War, Daddy?

[Yellow Son]

I've already posted this on another thread (about the Queen's message!) but on reflection that wasn't my best idea ever - I reckon it needs a thread of its own. This is for you younger fellas . . .

Take a look at this petition -
We should honour the service personnel who protected the UK during the Cold War - e-petitions (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/51147)


I didn't start this petition, but I'm glad someone else has. When the Berlin wall came down, CAS Dick Johns came to HQ Strike and told us 'The Cold War is over, and we've won it'. I asked him - tongue in cheek, of course - when to expect a campaign medal. He said not to hold my breath, and we all laughed.

I didn't hold my breath then, and I haven't been for the last 20 years. I really don't mind not having a medal; it wouldn't change my own knowledge that we all did something worthwhile with our lives. But I have been getting more and more disillusioned about the lack of knowledge, never mind appreciation, in the population at large. It's almost as if the Warsaw Pact and its potential threat had never existed. Whether this petition succeeds or not, it will surely do no harm to generate a bit of a discussion. It's easy to remind people of obvious 'hot' victories like the Falklands, Sierra Leone or the first Gulf War. I'm as proud as could be to have been a member of the team responsible. But the Cold War - which demanded total and sustained commitment and professionalism, and which certainly warmed up from time to time, arguably claiming some victims - did more to keep us safe and well than any of those short campaigns. Forty years without a major war in Europe is an achievement that shouldn't be overlooked, surely? Yet most people under 35 know nothing about it.

Please sign the petition. Even if you don't, please pass it on to anyone you think will support it. Here it is again . . .

We should honour the service personnel who protected the UK during the Cold War - e-petitions (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/51147)

[friendlypelican 2]

Like Yellow Son, I have a personal pride in what we did and the dedication with which we did it. The longest and most inclusive war the RAF ever fought (and won).
I haven't signed the petition as I suspect it may prove to be a tool for derision. It wasn't long ago I heard that a certain 4* had referred to "The perma-frost warriors" and our supposed resistance to change (the very same changes he promoted and which have now emasculated our Service).
Rant over!

[salad-dodger]

Standby for the septics to tell us we were just bit part players!

S-D

[Heathrow Harry]

"fought"

really??????

reading other posts it sounds like a lot of folk sitting round drinking tea all day at dispersal - not exactly the Battle of El Alamein or the Somme............

[ACW418]

HH

I guess you were not aircrew on QRA during the Cold War then!

ACW

[NutLoose]

Tea? Good God, one of the main ingredients of that stuff is water, and fish have sex in that..
Nasty stuff..

Ahhhh QRA, the one place no one could bother you... :ok:


..

[glad rag]

Went to W Germany and "played" at Armageddon.

[brickhistory]

Standby for the septics to tell us we were just bit part players


Quite the contrary, you folks soaking up the first belt of SAMs was a much appreciated planning factor.

But as a former ICBM missileer, I always considered any airbreathing delivery system as too late, and for clean up anyway.

Still, seeing the pK calculations for those folks taking the long way to deliver instant sunshine was pretty sobering. Me? I'd have just been dug out of the ground in North Dakota, so what was the real difference there?

[Megaton]

I am the Custodian of the NLZ.......

(Fairly) happy days. Apart from being at Marham. I quite miss the Cold War. At least you knew who the enemy was back then.

[BEagle]

But as a former ICBM missileer...

That takes me back to the days of that cringingly awful Combat Crew thing which SAC pushed out...

Missileer of the Month is 1/Lt Hiram B. Chickensexer III who courageously dealt with a silo air conditioning warning whilst responding to a SAC EAM....

Complete with picture of some weedy youth in a flying suit complete with shiny cravat (Spams call them 'ascots', for some weird reason)...:8

Mind you, perhaps there's some Spam medal for simply having had to live in North Dakota?

[Trim Stab]

I think the cold war will go down as one of the best ever "wars" to have fought in. I'm proud to have played my small part, but I don't think I deserve a campaign medal for having an absolute blast playing with almost unlimited pointy kit with the minimal risk of getting maimed/killed.

Let's leave medals to those who deserve them.

[Jayand]

Why would cold war era troops be honoured? And what do you mean honoured, a medal? Utterly ridiculous! It was part of the job, nobody got hurt. It was an interesting time and without it many wouldn't have had nearly as good careers as they have, for me it's a big no.

[Rosevidney1]

Most of us were but 'sandalled spear carriers' in the great charade known as the cold war. At least then we had a sense of purpose and a recognisable enemy. We also had careers that gave us overseas postings and we had a comradeship that civilians will never know. There was a price to pay, not just financial. How many lost their lives in all of our armed services during this extended period? No, I don't want a medal either.

[brickhistory]

nobody got hurt


How many crews were lost in recce, refueling, and training?

Hardly "nobody."

Spam medal for simply having had to live in North Dakota?

Too often that wound being a NoDak wife...(not there's anything wrong with that)


Combat Crew


Ah, Beags, don't be jealous. Wearing my 'crew blues', blue-dyed fatigues with my 'dickie' was quite the chick magnet (not). We won't discuss changing into pajamas, sweats, and the like, complete with warm, fuzzy slippers once actually on alert and submerged 70-90 feet under the surface.

Dive, dive, dive....oooga...oooga...

[Geehovah]

As we all read the remarks about how the Cold War wasn't a shooting war let's just give a thought for the hundreds of aircrew who made the ultimate sacrifice during training losing their lives preparing for the one that never came. I lost 4 friends and I consider myself fortunate. Some lost many more and some families paid the ultimate price.

I still struggle with the negative attitudes about what would simply be a campaign medal. Is the GSM for Northern Ireland a bad thing? I can live without a medal but I got medals for less.

RIP to my former colleagues and friends.

[Cows getting bigger]

Like many, I was fiercely proud to be part of RAFG, for my part being at RAF Gutersloh. My personal contribution was at the end of the Cold War, being in Germany from 1986 to mid 1990. What part did we play?

We worked hard, but enjoyed it. I don't recollect many people monking or bitching about this and that. We would drink regularly and heavily. We would happily roll out of an all night Sgts & WOs Mess vs. Officers' Mess games night straight into Taceval. We would ensure that each field deployment diverted a 4 tonne truck to Martkauf for 'supplies'.

Equally, we flew hard. The two Harrier squadrons would each launch 16-ship waves, four times a day. 230 and 18 would fly equally hard. Inevitably, some of us died. In one relatively short period we lost half a dozen aircraft and a similar number of aircrew (Ada, Suds, John Carver, Jim Mac, Pete Stone and Phil Brewer spring to mind).

As far as the war was concerned, we were under no illusion that it would be bloody and we would probably be sacrificed but didn't overly worry about it. In hindsight, I think we believed in 'stability' of the status quo. Personally, the only worry I had was the thought of a long and painful death having got my NBC drill wrong. :ouch:

I remember the Staish (Ian Stewart) briefing us all in the Mess shortly after the Wall came down. He clearly described how he didn't know what the short-term would bring but he offered that there would be a decade of global instability; that decade has not yet finished.

Was it a war? Not for many of us although some were doing very brave and important things. Most were ready to do the same. Would I go back? God, yes. It was the most stimulating, enjoyable and worthwhile part of my life. Do we deserve medals? No.

[NutLoose]

Jayand, rosevidney1, Gehovah and getting bigger too. well said and in total agreement.



..

[cuefaye]

How many lost their lives in all of our armed services during this extended
period?


Very many; during my own twenty eight years, there were 22 very close friends who perished in flying accidents. But a medal - I don't think so.

[smujsmith]

Having served from 1969 - 1997 I hope I may be regarded as having taken part in "the Cold War". Whilst I'm aware that at certain times during my career, I partook in activities conducive to the debilitating of Soviet threats, I can not say that I ever felt in any way under serious threat or any heightened state of concern. Maybe because as a "child of the 50/60s" I had to remain "cool". I did feel under threat, several times in GW1 and Sarajevo. They gave me a few " decorative" souvenirs for GW1, nary a thing for Sarajevo. Having signed on the dotted line in 1969, I believe I understood the "threat" and the expectancy by my employers that I would do my job. Surely, we just accepted that that was the way it was, and got on with it. With the greatest respect to all who feel there should be some reward for service in that period, and those who gave their lives, I truly believe that our service and our success needs no jewellery to mark the facts of the conflict. As they say in that exemplar of British Journalism, the Daily Fail, "go on then, Red arrow me"!

Smudge:ok:

[Tashengurt]

Thanks but no thanks.



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[ACW418]

Thanks but no thanks.

ACW

[Yellow Sun]

No thank you.

"6 for carriage 6 for use"

Yellow Sun

[Jayand]

Those that tragically lost their lives whilst serving during the "cold war" didn't die because of it but, simply because they were undertaking risky, dangerous training. Thats what we do in the military. How would you decide the qualifying criteria for such a campaign medal? Where was the front line? Etc etc.

[blimey]

Where was the front line?

Gutersloh and east of. :)

[NutLoose]

NAAFI bop on a Friday night..

[reynoldsno1]

We don't need no stinkin' medals ....:mad:

[Dan Winterland]

I was amazed to see one of my son's GCSE history syllabus featured the Cold War. I think my response was "that can't be history - I was in it!"

No medal please.

[Pontius Navigator]

I know National Servicemen have pressed for a medal, and then many awarded themselves a private gong. Many got real medals in Korea, some got GSM for Suez I think.

Some were stewards in the RAF in comfy billets in a UK posting.

Not all were equal.

The same applied to the Cold War regulars.

Some got GSM in NI, Cyprus, Aden, Malaysia etc and arguably not part of the Cold War, or were they? Do those in RAFG merit a different award from those in UK? Were all supporting personnel, and I only state RAF, in MC, SC, FTC Cold War warriors? Did operational aircrew in BC, FC, CC, merits a a special award different from TC?

Then the cost. Who pays? The cost of several thousand Arctic War medals was not inconsiderable but far less that had they awarded one to Bomber Command. Award one to all Cold War warriors? Unaffordable.

[Onceapilot]

It is politics. Nothing in it for them so, nothing will happen:).

OAP

[ExRAFRadar]

Botchergate, Carlisle on a Friday night when pubs/clubs turned out.

I should get a medal for that.....

[Tankertrashnav]

You need to define dates. I served on tankers 1971 - 77 so was never directly involved in the bombing side. Those on Vulcans at that time no longer did QRA, but there was a nuclear capability and we on tankers had a nuclear war role which we trained for, so were we cold war warriors too?

Either way I dont want a medal!

[exMudmover]

Jayand “…nobody got hurt” ?

Heathrow Harry “…with almost unlimited pointy kit with the minimal risk of getting maimed/killed.”

Hardly.

If you just look at the Fast Jet accident rate for Cold War peacetime training you will see that very many more RAF aircrew lost their lives in that period than has been the case for all the medium altitude wars since GW1.

The reason is simple. We had a lot of aeroplanes, most of them with inadequate navigation/ weapons kit and we often had to fly in appalling weather and with aircraft unserviceabilities to get the job done.

Jayand and Heathrow Harry - just how well do you think would you have done leading a bounced 4-ship in typical West German 5km vis (i.e. 2.5k to port and 2.5k to stbd).

With the windscreen obscured by insects.

And with no nav aids - just map-and stopwatch at 450kt?

Several of my colleagues were killed in mid-airs in conditions like that.

Have you ever heard of TACEVAL? Have you any idea of how much pressure was put on everyone from the Stn Cdr downwards to get a good result - regardless of equipment deficiencies, poor weather etc. ?

On one Fast Jet OCU I served on during the Cold War we had one third of the staff killed in flying accidents during one 6 month period.

Go and count the gravestones.

[Bob Wyer]

My grandfather, 3rd Bn Worcs France Aug 1914, would never talk about his experiences to either my father or myself. On being questioned hard, his only comment was, "you don't need to know about that, my boy. If you were there then you know all you need to know, if you were not, then you don't want to"

As he had been a pre WW1, time served regular, I accepted and respected his views, but times change although the sentiment does not.

Subsequent studies of the events of Aug-Nov 1914 show that it was a pivotal and very bloody phase of WW1 and the pundits/politicians had retrospective careers but do we/did we ever learn anything from the Cold War?

[Heathrow Harry]

why don't we just let people award themselves medals (& titles) for anything they feel they deserve?

Duke Harry of Hounslow, OM, KG, DFC ***

[Pontius Navigator]

I know someone who was a bit miffed dealing with Sir .... Bt and Mr . . . MBE etc until one day his secretary asked of his new business cards:

Mr . . . CDM

And he said, why not, everyone else has.











For our colonial friends - Cadburys Dairy Milk - a chocolate bar rather tastier than a Hershey

[BEagle]

One of my pet peeves is that the Great Unwashed seem to think that the Vulcan force had nothing to do between the advent of Polaris in 1968 and the South Atlantic war in 1982......

Had that idiot McNamara not cancelled Skybolt, the RAF might have maintained a strategic strike role for considerably longer than we did.

[brickhistory]

Had that idiot McNamara not cancelled Skybolt, the RAF might have maintained a strategic strike role for considerably longer than we did.


While I agree about McNamara's intellectual gifts, you do need to take responsibility for your nation's abilities or lack thereof.

If you wanted to keep the role, you could have had it. You decided not to keep playing. There were alternatives - a new bomber, developing your own not tied to Washington's ALCM, etc.

But it's always easier to blame someone else it would appear. Especially if they provide the bigger umbrella.

[NutLoose]

I know someone who was a bit miffed dealing with Sir .... Bt and Mr . . . MBE etc until one day his secretary asked of his new business cards:

Mr . . . CDM

And he said, why not, everyone else has.



Did similar, could never find a parking space at work..

OC ENG
OC SQN
OC A flight
OC B flight
etc etc etc
so made one up with OC NLMC

and after that had no problems as no one used it bar me, told one of the guys when posted he might as well have it, querying who's it was, I pointed out it was OC Nutloose's Motor Cycle.. works a treat, just copy one of those already there :)

Is it true Coff had the Shilling he found at the bottom of his beer mounted so he could wear it? :E

[Pontius Navigator]

. . . that the Vulcan force had nothing to do between the advent of Polaris in 1968 and the South Atlantic war in 1982...... the RAF might have maintained a strategic strike role for considerably longer than we did.

Looking at numbers, in 1964 we had the Victor Mk 1 about to retire - 32 systems, Vulcan Mk 1 - 24 systems, Victor 2 BS - 16, Vulcan 2 BS - 24 and Vulcan 2 free-fall approaching 24. Ignoring OCU assets that was around 122 systems.

Post 1965 that dropped to 90. The replacement of the Vulcan Mk 1/1a with Vulcan 2 FF saw a force level of 16 at Cottesmore, 24 at Waddington and 24 at Scampton, 64 plus 16 Victor or now 80 systems.

The withdrawal of the Victor 2, and the conversion of the Vulcan BS saw a reduction of 16 - 24 - 16 or 56.

Now the RN added 16 Polaris making 72 with a potential of a further 16 or 88 total. Effectively the total National Deterrent has therefore been static at 70-90 systems.

With the Chevaline systems multiple warheads were added and a gradual reduction in V-force sqns.

In other words the RN added a strategic dimension and didn't replace the V-force at all.

[clicker]

OK I've never been in the forces (failed medical for want of trying) but my view is no metals.

But do not forget the men and women who have, or will, serve our country.

[charliegolf]

What Did You Do In The Cold War, Daddy?

I never had my GSM NI mounted- didn't see the need. So I similarly don't see the need for a medal here.

That said, I never miss an opportunity to remind all and sundry that I, with a few crewman mates, was all that there was between freedom and the Russian hordes. There is invariably booze involved, and barrage of soft items launched my way. It's how I see it, honest!

CG

[rab-k]

What Did You Do In The Cold War, Daddy?Disappeared down a hole in the ground once a week and pretended the balloon had gone up.

Wasn't in for long enough to claim one of these...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8a/ROC_Medal.jpg/200px-ROC_Medal.jpg

However, if I was going to get a gong for anything, it would be for managing to get myself over to the Pentland Club in one piece after the Burns' Supper of '86. I have no recollection of events post the Toast to the Lassies, but photographs prove I did make it across the Turnhouse Road intact, somehow...:E

[Blacksheep]

As Vulcan ground crew I did for three years pretty much what Lancaster ground crew did in WW2. Just as I did for BA, RBA, MAS and RNAC after demob. The wartime fitters and riggers got the war service medal and the 39-45 Star for it but so did my Dad for his years in harm's way and several "combats" in the Arctic and North Atlantic. Doesn't seem fair but that's life.

I had my reward with a tour of duty at the RAF's excellent holiday camp at Changi, much more satisfactory than any bit of metal on a ribbon to hang on you Sunday best suit once or twice a year. Not to mention a long and interesting career in aviation.

[Wander00]

Bet no-one now would believe the barrack blocks converted to NBC shelters with plastic sheet and duct tape.

[NutLoose]

They're probably still using the same plastic sheeting.. And broom handles..

[Laarbruch72]

No signature from me, sorry. It wasn't a war, just a time of raised tension and posture, just about everyone got to go home at night to sleep in their own bed and see their kids on a regular basis, just about everyone got to go out on the lash at weekends (and more!), and most got to go camping for two weeks at a time on the Rhein Valley.

I'm not having the "but people died whilst training" angle either, people always die whilst training for missions that might come (including in the UK, look at Pen Y Fan in the last few weeks, 3 victims), but at what point do you say the whole build up deserves it's own medal?

The whole discussion cheapens what brave young lads are doing and have been doing for many years. I get the feeling that many 19 year old toms getting malleted in their mud walled FOBs would be less than impressed with the neckiness of this thread and would happily swap a 3 year tour in the mess at Bruggen for their 6 months fighting in Nahri Saraj.

[NutLoose]

Laarbruch, read the thread, everyone agrees we do not want one...

[Laarbruch72]

Yeah most agree, but I'm replying to the OP. It's not easy to direct quote on PPruNe sadly.

[TomJoad]

When the Berlin wall came down, CAS Dick Johns came to HQ Strike and told us 'The Cold War is over, and we've won it'. I asked him - tongue in cheek, of course - when to expect a campaign medal. He said not to hold my breath, and we all laughed.

You were lucky to get that , we got nothing . I only got a taste of the cold war routine, the TACEVALs that I experienced in the 1st and 2nd tour were very much watered down affairs. That said all the crap and mind numbing paperwork checks that went with the nuclear re certification made up for it. What did strike me though was the lack of briefing we received at the shop floor from our masters. I remember hoping for some sort of brief, maybe an in depth analysis of here's what we did well, not so well, and why it turned out the way it did. It it all just seamed such a big anti climax. Then it was straight into NMS (remember that one), reducing strength etc and so it continued until I left in 2006! I try to tell the kids in school about the Cold War; trip wire, flexible response, NATO etc, the Vulcan and its grand tour - they are genuinely interested.Anyway no I don't think there is a need for a medal - certainly would have been too sensitive at the time. Some sort of official assessment would be interesting though - don't know who would produce that though!

[SOSL]

What Laarbruch said.

Rgds SOS

[alisoncc]

As Vulcan ground crew I did for three years pretty much what Lancaster ground crew did in WW2. Same here 63-66. I sincerely believe that the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction (M.A.D.) gave us more than enough motivation to pull out all the stops. Which we did with some regularity. It's so easy in hindsight to say "The Cold War - so what", but we took it bloody seriously at the time.

When told that one of our Vulcans, on a major, had to be out of the hangar and on the line ASAP, have vivid memories of guys RUNNING in the hangar to get her ready at 3.00am. Or standing on a Vulcan wing, also at some equally silly hour of a January morning, wearing a rubber suit and spraying hot de-icing fluid.

For the participants, the Cold War was for real.

[Barksdale Boy]

Vulcan QRA was stood down at the end of June 1969 not 1968.

[alisoncc]

The Cuban missile crisis was a 13-day confrontation in October 1962 between the Soviet Union and Cuba on one side and the United States on the other side. It was one of the major confrontations of the Cold War, and is generally regarded as the moment in which the Cold War came closest to turning into a nuclear conflict. It is also the first documented instance of the threat of mutual assured destruction (MAD) being discussed.

The driving force in the USSR was this same guy "Khrushchev pounded his fists on his desk (at the UN) in protest as Sumulong continued to speak, and, as some sources claim, at one point picked up his shoe and banged the desk with it". Anyone suggesting he shoudn't have been taken seriously? Add in Gary Powers and the U2's that had been overflying Russia, all up a very explosive mix.

[John Botwood]

In 1957/58 we had "informal" chats/briefings from the man from the Ministry. Amongst many things, we were told that we could only knock out Russia 1.75 times. True: he said that.
But the thing that he also said that stuck in my mind over the years was; "Once we get past 1962, we will be alright."
In October 1962; I left my family and reported for dispersal and watched weapons coming out for loading that I had never seen before, or even heard of. We had literally kissed our families goodbye and watched others do the same as their wives took the family south of the Border.
I stayed on until 1966 and firmly believed in that dark lecture in the Education Section in 1957.
JohnB

[thing]

Did Gut late 70's, never really thought about the Cold War, too interested in having a good time. Bit bizarre to think it warrants a medal.

As an aside I think the world was a lot more stable when we faced off against the Russkis.

[ozleckie]

As others have said it all seemed pretty real in October 1962 when I was loading fully armed Yellow Suns on to Victors at Cottesmore. We had to accept that this could be the end and this is what we have been about for the last few years. Luckily the MAD principle kicked in and saved us which is what we had been told should and would happen.

[goudie]

My contribution to the cold war, among other things, included a very pleasant 3 years (63-6) at Akrotiri. Hard work on the Canberra Sqdn line but plenty of time off to enjoy some excellent recreation.
The day Kennedy died upped the anti a bit with all sorts of rumours, with everyone on standby at various levels for a few days.
It was said that Akrotiri was surrounded by spies, observing all the flying activity and eavesdropping.
With this in mind it seemed rather farcical that at the end of every day each Sqdn had to report to the DOO the Sqdn servicability state, over the phone. On the front of every phone there was a label which read; 'Speech on this phone is not secure!'
As for a medal...ridiculous idea!

[Pontius Navigator]

. . . replying to the OP. It's not easy to direct quote on PPruNe sadly.

Really?

Four clicks of the mouse, all that is needed.

Click on reply in the OP, delete the [1] after the [=] sign in the address bar, the click the refresh.

To edit their post delete items as required. Ensure you don't delete a square bracket.

[Pontius Navigator]

As Vulcan ground crew I did for three years pretty much what Lancaster ground crew did in WW2. . . . Doesn't seem fair but that's life.

The difference is that your WW2 aircrew stood in to danger and the ground crew were comparatively safe.

For WW3 we were very conscious that our ground crew life expectance was probably a couple of hours less than ours. Similarly our families on the base might have fared little better crouched in now empty nuclear weapons bunkers. I knew of no plans to provide rations, water or sanitation even though it was talked about housing families in them.

[ancientaviator62]

Pontius,
you are bang on ref the water. My brother worked at MOD and it was tacitly aknowledged there that all the cunning survival plans would founder on the lack of uncontaminated drinking water. Also there was a 'worst estimate' of how many servicemen would actually leave their families 'in the lurch' if the balloon went up for real. As for the guards on the gate keeping the families off the camp as they tried to gain access to our supposedly superior shelters, it was also accepted that this would not be the case.

[Blacksheep]

Spot on Pontius. Ground crew would be the first casualties. I remember the day when I was on QRA when High Wycombe changed the codes at an inopportune time. The crews down on
the runway refused to return to the pans and a pair of Lightnings flew over waggling their wings. Back on the empty pans we knew nothing of what was going on, but this was far from normal: we thought this might be IT and at that point we realised there were no standing orders for what to do next. Just stand there in the open and wait for the incoming air burst directly over the Station. I doubt if it would have hurt much. :rolleyes:

[Pontius Navigator]

BS, at that time we worked to a very thin document called BCARs, Bomber Command Alert and Readiness. It said simply what was required at each alert state and each change of readiness. The station had, I believe, a very short operation order for QRA; I don't think there was one for Mick, Micky Finn or the real thing. At the same time the full war plan OpOrd ran to about 7 pages and the SOP to 107 pages.

Then came flexible response and a STCAMs - Strike Command Alert Manual which was a rather more solid tome. I managed to get out from under before we had to write the enlarged station version though I did get lumbered with the door stop at ISK.

Oh for the simplicity of Armageddon.

[glad rag]

As an aside I think the world was a lot more stable when we faced off against the Russkis. like this?

US and Russia Fight Proxy War in Syria As Nations Arm Opposite Sides - | Intellihub.com (http://intellihub.com/2013/07/25/us-and-russia-fight-proxy-war-in-syria-as-nations-arm-opposite-sides/)

happydaysarehereagain NOT!!

[Pontius Navigator]

GR, faced off against the Russkies is a said, a direct confrontation. Proxy wars bring a whole new world of hurt. Where the proxy is used by one side and not the other is one thing (Vietnam) but when neither side is engaged it just becomes a commercial killing field with each supplying weapons and abrogating responsibility.

Is that worse? Well for the guy in the middle, yes.

[NutLoose]

For WW3 we were very conscious that our ground crew life expectance was probably a couple of hours less than ours. Similarly our families on the base might have fared little better crouched in now empty nuclear weapons bunkers. I knew of no plans to provide rations, water or sanitation even though it was talked about housing families in them.

Didn't Gut try a full size evacuation of families to the UK and the local populace thinking the World was about to blow up started to join in, so it had to be cancelled?

[ian16th]

One of my greatest achievements was ending my 1st tour at Marham with a posting to Akrotiri and arriving there on 22nd Oct 1962!

What Cuban Crises? :D

[badpuppy]

I was on nearly permanent "Battle Flight - QRA" at RAF Gutersloh, with 74 Squadron Lightnings. - We had LOTS of exercises too - It was great fun at the time. Our aircraft used to patrol the Berlin corridor.

[Pontius Navigator]

We were 5 months in to our nav training so it passed us by too however I do remember the instructors rubbing the dust off the go bags - the nav school Varsities were designated as SRMP. Now that was cannon fodder if ever there was any.

[pontifex]

Some of the best fun I have had with my clothes on was launching on the fairly regular operation Dragonflies in the 70s. We even got to wave at the men with snow on their boots from time to time. I would class that as genuine cold war action.

[sittingstress]

In this order:

April 1986 Arrived in RAFG (BRU)
Bomb scare in new BB the first day
Got drunk in Holland
Work
Point 1. Got drunk in Pigs Bar
Mineval
Got drunk in Pigs Bar
Maxeval
Got drunk in Pigs Bar
Maximash
Got drunk in Pigs Bar
Taceval
Got drunk in Pigs Bar met future wife
Various exercises and trips to Hebrides to fire Rapier missiles
Got drunk, courted future wife
Falklands
Revert to Point 1 and repeat including Falklands

Add in:

Get engaged
Fellow Gunners getting shot and blown up in Holland (very bad night)
Get promoted
Get posted to LBH
Get married
Buy tax free car
Buy a schrank (See Taceval thread)
Gain a daughter

Mixed in with getting drunk in many many locations, detachments, skullduggery and awesome times.

May 1992 Posted back to UK (BZN)
Let the crap times begin.

[MightyGem]

Didn't Gut try a full size evacuation of families to the UK and the local populace thinking the World was about to blow up started to join in, so it had to be cancelled?
See here, Post 39:
http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/520550-taceval-stories-2.html

[oldpax]

Served from 58 to 68.Broke a toe when a comp air trolley arm dropped on it.Lost a chunk of bone when a Hunter radio bay panel dropped on my shin and have a scar from a stab from a Hunter starter fuel vent!Also suffered a trauna at seeing lots of Russian subs while on a jolly to Gib! Any Purple hearts for these wounds?!!!!

[Pontius Navigator]

I think the Cold War, as far as the RAF and Bomber Command especially, changed when the RN took over the immediate deterrence and flexible response became the order of the day.

Prior to that exercises were possibly more realistic and 'fought' with the real thing - pick axe handles and sheltering in barrack block basements. Everyone expected that the enemy forces would be ban the bomb protestors and not real intruders. We knew that there were no effective post-strike shelters so the best, especially on a prime target, was a basement.

Our lords and masters had fought in WW2 and knew the values of leadership and could take a realistic view of things - bars staying open, eating properly, no practice bleeding.

When things became more realistic and WW2 tin hats, masking tape and polythene sheeting became the protection of choice, then things turned to farce as even the dimmest could see how stupid some games were.

The dispersal and hardening programme added a proper layer of defence and showed how determined we really were - then the war ended.

[NutLoose]

It was the idea of decontam centres with plastic sheeting, bodge tape, drip trays and fuller earth galore.... and then scrubbing Jags down to decontaminate them with a bucket of detergent and a brush, whilst wearing a bake in the bag plastic noddy suit over the top of ones NBC suit that made me see the futility of it all..
That and the film they showed which involved a near miss on a HAS where the narrator points out the aircraft would survive, but all the sheep in the HAS ( I think they were ) had died from the concussion ( which would have been us )

Sigh one hopes they no longer do that.

[rab-k]

Everyone expected that the enemy forces would be ban the bomb protestors and not real intruders.Many an exercise/OPEVAL was disrupted by our CND pals, mostly with the help of a couple of drops of Super Glue. Wasn't uncommon to be sat at a Tote Board waiting for a (Underground Monitoring) Post to check in, only to be handed a note stating that the crew had called from their nearest public 'phone and were awaiting the arrival of a locksmith; the post being classed as 'PP' (negative comms.) TFN. (Funny how the nearest 'phone was often found attached to a pub, which by sheer coincidence was also the most convenient RVP for the locksmith...:rolleyes:).

[thing]

I never ever saw the point in wearing those bloody gas masks for hours at a time. Come a real event you would have trouble getting guys to take them off, no need to prove the point continually that they were a pain in the arse.

The more astute among us of course just went to the lavatory and sat there for two hours gas mask free reading a book; or if you were really lucky you had a boss who called 'masks off' five minutes after NBC black was declared.

[Pontius Navigator]

had a boss who called 'masks off' five minutes after NBC black was declared.

I was distaff and visited 16 in their hangar to check stats. Although they had a well developed alarm system, a bit like Goons in the block, they also played the game.

I went in to the crew room where all the aircrew were sat around in NBC kit and masks. On the table were ashtrays, cigarettes smouldering away with over an inch of ash on each. Of course they might have been camouflage with other cigarettes being used for an illicit grasp.

[ancientaviator62]

Ah the joys of trying to operate in the AR5 kit. The futility of the whole business was well and truly demonstrated in GW1, despite the presence of the Czech decontam team.

[NutLoose]

Pontius when they modded the HAS at Bruggen by tacking a bowser hut on the side for the incoming Tornado, they marked out on the Apron some CPX HAS and you were allowed to demask in them on the grounds they were slightly pressurised, though the blower did draw air in so no sense there then..

[Pontius Navigator]

NL, as I said, some weird and wonderful thinking. We knew that all we could afford was masking tape and polythene sheeting.

The other thing I loved was the practice of making safe a weapon before entering a building. Intruders would never enter a building would they? At least later you were able to reload with a magazine and not cocking it.