Corporate gigs in Asia

[1 Left]

Hi All.

First post on pprune and the like.
I'm looking for Corporate gigs in HK Macau Asia area specifically on BBJ G6/550 BD7000 and similar equipment.

I'm currently an Airline driver and looking for a Big change.
Can anyone who has specific (non sarcastic) 1st hand recent info on specific T&C at the Metrojet/ Tag's of the world PM me or start a thread here regarding inter Alia: way of life, stby time, off time, are the Chief Pilots/management/owners approachable, are F/O's receptive cool easy going bunch, do F/O exist or are most Biz jets operated with 2 captains these days, is there such a thing as direct entry Captains without prior Biz jet exp, are owners and FBO's reasonable (with exceptions of course) How about FTL's are they generally regarded or disregarded?

Looking to relocate to a permanent basing with a family so would prefer not being based in main land China doing 6on/2off etc mind you, however unlikely, a 4/4 commuting would be fab, obviously for less financial gain as some of the Airlines are doing these days. Also prefer a permanent contract if such a thing exists.

How about progression if one was to start as an F/o on say a G550 or BBJ can one move to the LHS quite quickly or does one climb the ladder in terms of type Rhs to Rhs to Rhs then LHS on the smallest type then onwards and upwards like some Airlines do.?.

Humble thanks for your (any) input.

Best's
1L

[Woody12]

Why do airline guys always assume that they can go immediately on the big bizz toys? Because they flew with something big? Is a cessna citation not good enough to start with, learning how it actually work in general aviation. Sorry, had to get this off my chest.

[M-ONGO]

are F/O's receptive cool easy going bunch

Lets get that one out of the way first...:)

Receptive to what? Want to teach them the 'airline way'? I can just see it now... "No, that's ops job", "In the airline we did it this way", "bag loading is for ground crew", "what do you mean we book our own hotac?"... Seriously though, F/O's are mostly ex GA pilots with quite a bit of time, especially on the heavier iron. Not many 200 hour wonders here.

How about FTL's are they generally regarded or disregarded?

That would depend if it's a private gig or an AOC gig...

How about progression if one was to start as an F/o on say a G550 or BBJ can one move to the LHS quite quickly

Ever heard of dead mans shoes? Most good private gigs are like that. More chance in an AOC environment.

are the Chief Pilots/management/owners approachable

Varies immensely.

From the flip side,

http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/517988-large-biz-legacy-carrier.html

Short answer, some operators will take on ex airline guys, some wont touch them. TAG have both ex airline and corporate lifers, as do Execujet. Some operators think that an airline guy may be less flexible than a long time corporate driver. They would mostly be correct. We wear many hats in biz aviation. As long as you keep that in mind.

From the above link,

Have worked in the ME and currently in Asia, first of all every Biz-jet company that I have worked for has a HR dept. Secondly, we typically don't recruit airline pilots. Our target is current Corporate folks that have been in stable employment. Thats just my view though, seeing it from the inside!!

The above would seem to be the rule, not the exception. (Current corporate folks)

[jtr]

I'm all about helping a brother....and being ex airline myself but now in the corporate world I understand a small aspect of what you have asked ... However.... You have basically asked the reciprocal of this...

Hi All.

First post on PPRuNe and the like.
I'm looking for Airline gigs in Dubai/Qatar area specifically on 777/747-400 A380 and similar equipment.

I'm currently an corporate driver and looking for a Big change.
Can anyone who has specific (non sarcastic) 1st hand recent info on specific T&C at the Emirate/Qatar's of the world PM me or start a thread here regarding inter Alia: way of life, stby time, off time, are the Chief Pilots/management/owners approachable, are F/O's receptive cool easy going bunch, do F/O exist or are most Long haul flight operated with 2 captains and an s/o these days, is there such a thing as direct entry Captains without prior airline exp, are mngmnt and Ground handlers reasonable (with exceptions of course) How about FTL's are they generally regarded or disregarded?

Looking to relocate to a permanent basing with a family so would prefer not being based in hevsand pit doing 6on/2off etc mind you, however unlikely, a 4/4 commuting would be fab, obviously for less financial gain as some of the Airlines are doing these days. Also prefer a permanent contract if such a thing exists.

How about progression if one was to start as an F/o on say a 777 or A380 can one move to the LHS quite quickly or does one climb the ladder in terms of type Rhs to Rhs to Rhs then LHS on the smallest type then onwards and upwards like some Airlines do.?.

Humble thanks for your (any) input.

Best's
Jtr

Hope that helps

[1 Left]

Ok, Wow.

Mongo thanks for some useful information. I have read the thread you mention along with many others, Google being what it is. I have taken the thread for what it offers, any more information will be graciously accepted..

Woody without giving you a personal history, how do you know I've not paid my dues before my Airline career in light pistons, light single and twin turbines and GA in general. I guess you missed the no sarcastic replies and HUMBLY yours in my first post.. oh well.. I guess also in your mad dash too first belittle you missed the bit where I elude to starting again as an F/O on a smaller type and progressing, which I will quite happily do given the right circumstance.. Now if you have something useful to say please do so Sir.

So here we go again, seriously If you have sarcastic replies pls don't bother, I'm looking to move on, dare I say sideways if not sideways then starting from scratch, that is all. I'm looking for CONSTRUCTIVE information on the subject as I have no other source.. In days gone by, I'm sure many would agree, one could saunter up to fellow aviators and politely ask these questions but these days you cant so here I am, looking.

I would have thought excuse my ignorance went without saying by the tone of my first post Obviously for the likes of Woody it does not, so, for those like minded, Please EXCUSE my ignorance: Im not assuming anything Im asking for information regarding furthering my knowledge and experience adding to what I've gained in GA as well as Airline flying.. OK?

To clarify one question above I was wondering above if F/O's are receptive to Direct entry Captains wanting to LEARN the ropes again in Corporate flying..

A few more questions while I'm here, how does one know if the Jet one is applying to fly is on an AOC.? I would have thought most owners if not all owners have AOC companies or FOB's looking after their jets or is this not the case.?

I'm fairly sure T&C vary widely, WIDELY. But is one usually on 24hr call/7days a week, working for TAG, ExecuJet, et al.? Surely this cant be the case under most parts of the Regs unless its strictly an owner flight for no commercial gain. Where I come from AOC jets for charter/hire are subject to the same or very close to the Regs as the Airlines jets are.

Thanks again for any insight plenty more Q n A for willing participants...

But I guess that is never going to happen from a serious punter.. Prove me wrong gents...

JTR try walking into the CP office with an issue at Qatar.. see how far you get.

Cheers

1L

[500 above]

Don't forget to demand first class travel on the rotations. We don't want to lower our industry terms and conditions. Maybe you could get a head start by paying for G650, 550 and a GLEX ratings? I hear FSI have very reasonable rates for P2F Bizjet drivers.

Two hopes for a GLEX or big G, no hope and Bob Hope. Better off looking for a BBJ job.

You probably did your time in the RHS of an airliner then moved upwards. As jtr states, rather eloquently, it's possibly not reciprocal moving from either sectors "heavy iron" to each others without challenge. Do you have any G/A time at all?

[FrankR]

The funny part is that you could ask this with a straight face.

Let me get this straight, you aren't in Asia, and never been, you have no time in any corporate type, and don't seem to have any years in OUR profession, and you ask "where can I find the best job, and start at the top".

Seriously, guys like you get a type and last maybe 6-9 months, then leave to go back to where they came from.

Oh, let's not forget your wife. Tote her and the kiddies over, and have them stay in a LOCAL housing area for two weeks to get a feel (But without you, because you'll be sitting on the beach in the Maldives). Most don't last.

Save yourself (and me) the grief, put in your paperwork at Emirates or whomever is hiring guys like you with time in your "real jet airplanes"

FR

[jtr]

Persistent, I will grant you that. Congratulations on passing stage 1...

Let me gives you my $0.02 worth....

I work for one of the larger organizations in Hong Kong.

Q n A style.

Way of life, stby time, off time, - all vary vastly depending on the client.
We have:
2 crew a/c that fly 100 hrs a year
2 crew a/c that fly 60 hrs a month and are away 25 days a month
3 crew a/c that fly 40 hours a month and are away 10 days a month

Are the Chief Pilots/management/owners approachable - All vary vastly depending on company/client
Chief Pilots in HKG - All generally yes.
Management - Does it matter? You wont be dealing operationally with them.
Owners - After you are fluent in Mandarin and can get past the PA... maybe...

Are F/O's receptive cool easy going bunch - Ummmm.... about as varied as Airlines. If you come as a DEC and they believe it was "their job" then let the games begin!

Do F/O exist or are most Biz jets operated with 2 captains these days - Depends on the client. About 50/50

Is there such a thing as direct entry Captains without prior Biz jet exp - We have about 100 pilots. 4 are ex airline DEC. 1 was by necessity due new type, other 3 were just right place right time.

Are owners and FBO's reasonable (with exceptions of course) - Owners... Some are complete c@&t$ and others are like family. FBO - who gives a rats... its like asking how handlers are for an airline.

How about FTL's are they generally regarded or disregarded? For AOC a/c they are adhered to. Not as rigidly as in the airline world and you will learn to be very flexible. For non AOC it depends on the company. Mine has them.

Looking to relocate to a permanent basing with a family so would prefer not being based in main land China doing 6on/2off etc mind you, however unlikely, a 4/4 commuting would be fab, obviously for less financial gain as some of the Airlines are doing these days. Also prefer a permanent contract if such a thing exists. - AFAIK only BAA does these style contracts.

How about progression if one was to start as an F/o on say a G550 or BBJ can one move to the LHS quite quickly or does one climb the ladder in terms of type Rhs to Rhs to Rhs then LHS on the smallest type then onwards and upwards like some Airlines do.? - Generally you stay on the same contract/jet and await upgrade. How long is a piece of string....

[Flying Mechanic]

Good advice from jtr.

If you are really serious about the corporate world, suggest you knock on doors in hk, Singapore, Malaysia, thailand.For China they Bly take guys who are rated and with at least 300 on type.

Our Chief Pilots email is full of 100's of airline guys cv looking to change jobs, equally he's has 100's of cv's from current corporate guys in USA/Europe looking for greener pastures, so you up against them.

The latest corporate aircraft to hk is a Caravan , would you be prepared to start there?

Good luck, went airline to corporate 4 years ago, best career move I ever made.

Regards FM.

[500 above]

To clarify one question above I was wondering above if F/O's are receptive to Direct entry Captains wanting to LEARN the ropes again in Corporate flying..

What do you think an airline F/O with years of seniority would think of a DEC walking in, no time on type? It's no different here...

[1 Left]

JTR And Flying Mech..

Thanks for your second reply (and first Reply FM) informative indeed, great, any more info.? I see your point FM Thanks, I have 1500 + P1 hrs on the C208 does that count? Been out of job hunting for a long time..

Thing is: For those who want to comment maturely (on line- by the look of things - in CHINA) all I can see are BBJ, ABJ, G4/5 Falcon and Global jobs.

Parc/Rishworth/Flight.. checked, look yourself if you like: The smallest type I could find a job on is a G450 it is a F/O slot.. Great, expect an application from me..

Google in particular (PCC's site) tells me that the Majority of companies over there operate and have ordered larger corporate jet types, those mentioned above, Deer jet being one with a large BBJ order/expansion plan. I don't have any other info, or should I just blindly pack up the wife and kids and head on over as you suggest Frank.?

-That is why I'm asking-

Shead loads is written on this forum and others about joining Emirates/Qatar and the like and one can sort of know what to expect, the Biz jet world is some what of an enigma.

FYI Frank/500 I'm already an expat living in local housing and if I wasn't out flying +95-110hrs every month day and night (-yep- that right -500- in first class!) I too would have time to belittle, berate and slander here, I also wouldn't be looking elsewhere at other options, and no, I'm not a PTF I have honored every one of my training bonds in my almost 30 years in the game and I've not and never will refer to my jets as the "real" ones.. Maybe yours are the real jets, are they? Seriously (today) that is that what you think (jet) size matters?

I would have thought T&C matter, home base, is the boss (Owner/CP/Client) reasonable, that matters right, time off with Wifey and Kids - I've not even asked what salary to expect because that is so far down the list compared to above it hardly matters, to me, maybe not to you, Sorry but are these not reasonable questions, having been on line and found no other options? These are the things I'm trying to assess and -ASK- here. Is this not a (professional-tongue in cheek) Pilots forum anymore?

I was told long ago that someone out there always knows what you post and look at on line.. Having LOOKED on line, done SOME research I stand by my public questions/comments as mature reasonable ones, short of packing and heading on over, I've done something to find out some informative general information, how would you suggest I proceed? Right Sorry Rant over... Till the next sarcastic reply.

So back to my questions: How does one know what one is getting into before committing to a job, obviously some (so far the majority) of the pilots are very helpful, I'll be asking on a Chinese P.A or Accountant forum next.

I was also wondering (FTL's aside) just how 'flexable' one has to be. In the old days loading up the B200 one kinda looked the other way when all was said and done and the shopping went into the back behind the net, maybe put a splash of extra gas in the main tanks and that was just to get you home because the charter queen told the client the plane could take 12pax for 4hrs, which as we all know aint always the case..

I take it from one of the posts that there is a bit of positioning flying, does one often position, min rest then off to wherever the client wants to go? Does one stay at the Airport hotel to maximize ones rest between duties (do you get to choose?) Nice to hear FTL's in most cases are adhered to.

So maybe this is a more suitable question. Obviously there are some here who don't like their job but do Most guys enjoy the flying, have a laugh during/between trips amongst one another are most guys n gals relaxed. Obviously there are SOP's to adhere to but is it generally impossibly rigorous?

I've noticed that the contracting companies don't have many corporate positions advertised, are there other options on line I'm missing or am I looking in the right/wrong place.

Let the mud slinging continue.


Cheers

1 L

[vjs]

1 Left : Being Ex Airline now "enjoying" Corporate I feel a bit with you. And from all the replies you should get the picture - Corporate flying is in most companies/owners a "snake pit". If you are at an owner "gig" for sure one of your nice collegues will try to work against you(have seen that personally and in a lot of other "crews") so maybe you get fired or leave on your own terms so he could bring in his buddy as a replacement.

Corporate is a networking thing - if you don't like that like me, forget it. No good jobs coming your way. You will get stuck with some big operator with proper recruitment and skill test but low pay. Owner "gigs" and small operators normally work the other way around - means barely no interview but it's important that somebody within helps you to get the job.

As an airliner, even having propably tons more experience then the average corporate jockey, you will not get any good jobs. Forget BBJs, Elite's, normally as well the big Gulfstreams and the Global. Nobody will hire you on this types if you don't have the rating(and the connections). From you post I guess you do not know anybody in the Corporate world right now that's why you ask strangers and Co-competitors for your desired job to help you out with informations :E. Got my draft?

All in all - think well about your idea of leaving the airlines. Not a very nice environment you are planning to change to...

EDIT: Missed reading you last post about the chinese Jobs. Well yes, they buy a lot of toys. BUT: Have you ever been in China, operated an aircraft there(have done both, Airline and Bizjet)? This guys are flexible like a rock. Getting you chinese license sometimes takes a veeeeeery long time, just because the checker has his bad day. Imagine someone there has finally some power over some white (or whatever colour) man which needs something from him... ATC is a desaster, etc, etc. Why you think we are not all there already flying this shiny big chinese Jets? They are all desperate to find good , experienced pilots. And the requirements , even in bad times as they are now, are not climbing, they are getting lower THERE. Good luck with your chinese job hunt, capital airlines is as well continuously searching for drivers :).

[1 Left]

VJS, JTR & Flying Mech champion informative posts many thanks :ok:

Yeeeep knowing not a single Corporate guy, hence relying on intel here, pinch of salt included, sad but true. About to start networking as you suggest.

I understand the Frustrations of China (and SE Asia) first hand (ish), having flown in there quite a bit, though as I said Ive never had a base there, just in and out while (usually) shaking all about.

I hear you regarding the CAA issues I can only imagine, we have similar but probably lesser issues here.. Renting or buying housing, driving, unexpected doctors visits, paying utility fees must be more of the same nightmare until one can get used to things, which will probably take quite some time.

VJS how did you make the switch.? PM me if you like.

So there are snakes in the green grass are there? That is surprising.! Not.! Sadly that is becoming more apparent in airline too, it is why I was asking if most crews get the job done and get along.. Sorry to hear not much has changed in that regard since I left the GA/charter/instructor scene.

But now surely rocks are a little bit flexible, it just depends on the pressure and tension right? Sorry couldn't resist. I get what your saying I've dodged my fair share too.

Judging by your tone VJS sounds like you not very happy you made the switch? Sorry to hear it Sir. PM me if you looking for something maybe I can hand over some useful info from this side of the world for you, you never know..

Thanks for the well wishes VJS wish you all the best to Sir.

Keep the good info coming Ladies and Gents.

1 L

[500 above]

All in all - think well about your idea of leaving the airlines. Not a very nice environment you are planning to change to...

Depends on the company and the "gig", no?

[Teldorserious]

Socrates stated 'let's define the terms first'..

So for the sake of clarity...guys flying charter are not corporate. If you want to argue the point, you can tell me how many cycles are on the engines, brakes, tires, and impeller, if you even know that the latter is.

The concept of 'corporate' in Asia, would be interesting....are there private hangers, private aircraft, non managed, only managed by chief pilot/dept manager and not a management company...free to fly around China at whim? hmmm...

So it seems to me if you move from airlines to charter, it's just another scheduled gig with hard days on and off, someone telling you what to do, where to be, how to fly, punching a clock.

What's the difference.

[Brian Abraham]

impeller, if you even know that the latter is.I know, I know. That's the little whiz wheel in the air cycle machine.are there private hangersThere are millions of them.

http://www.collegecomplements.com/img/products/Sterillite-Clothes-Hangers.jpg

[CaptainProp]

Hehehe.....:}

[MAVERICK#]

If your very Lucky you get wooden Hangers in the Marriott :ok:

Joking aside most AC sit on a ramp, and I understand HBAC in HK now has no room, so AC are towed or position to the remote ramp which can take 30 mins to get there. :{