NEM Roadshows

[ALM In Waiting]

Has anyone been to a New Employment Model roadshow yet? I believe that they started earlier this month for some bases.

[airborne_artist]

Will those in brown become the New Model Army? :E

[ALM In Waiting]

I understand that below 100,000 troops you cease to have an army and become a large corps ;)

[Biggus]

... and how low do your numbers have to fall before you stop being a "force" and become a "corps"?


RAC anybody? ;)

[Just This Once...]

I went to an NEM brief the other week.

My main impression is that the new model works very hard to address 'over-rentention' of personnel. Not sure it is a problem we actually have anywhere, but should the need arise we will have system that makes sure hardly anyone gets to a financially beneficial point; should anyone get close we will have a couple of ways of removing people at little cost.

My favourites so far include:

- No plans to allow PAS to serve to a full pension point
- Removal of sqn ldrs approx 9 years short of their pension point
- Giving direct entry ground branch officers around 2 years at flt lt to make sqn ldr before dismissal
- 2 methods of dismissal for Manning Control purposes; with a possible review of your continued engagement every 3 years

The housing deal looked pretty balanced though, but not sure we have the infrastructure to support the theory.

It is a very good model for a high-churn rate & short length of service; elements of the Army will think it is brilliant. Trying to pull people beyond an initial pension point will be a superhuman challenge!

[VinRouge]

sounds utter wank. good job I and a lot of other expensive to train aircrew will be out by then.

[CoffmanStarter]

ALMIW ...

We did a bit here which might be of interest :ok:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/518886-personnel-new-engagement-model-consultation.html

[ALM In Waiting]

Thanks Coffman. I've been following the thread and have completed the survey. I was hoping the Roadshows would have some actual details like the ones JtO mentions about retention etc.

Speaking of which, JtO, any news on what horrors the enlisted cadre can expect with regard to ToS?

[5 Forward 6 Back]

That sounds almost hilariously inappropriate for a service that spends millions on recruiting and training expensive aircrew.

Who would accept PAS if there's no guarantee of service to a final pension? Who'd accept promotion if you're likely to be out in your mid 40s chasing a second career?

I love the idea of a scheme that ensures that the only people who stick around past their second tour are those who don't think they're likely to do well in the private sector.

[gijoe]

'I understand that below 100,000 troops you cease to have an army and become a large corps'

A large corps - no.

A militia - yes.

The Really Large Corps is big enough already.

:ok:

[Just This Once...]

They did hint that the PAS / aircrew element may need further work and it is in 'consultation phase' after all. They did not think that the LOS30 for sqn ldrs would change though, with only wg cdrs and above serving to the full pension point.

They also suggested that some would be pulled through the set points, subject to manning need, and that these offers would have to be a few years before exit to be effective. Why they would expect anyone to serve beyond the EDP without the offer of a full pension escaped everyone in the room. To be frank, the gp capt giving the presentation could see the risk too. In fact the candid and open manner of the bluntie gp capt was one of the highlights of the presentation. Looks like we have the right man for the job as he new his stuff and was determined to get the right result for us simple folk,

The pitch was on 'the package' and I suppose if the positive retention factors of the full pension are gone for many then the cash incentive will have to be considerable; especially with the other push-factors like increase housing costs. CEA is not being touched in the NEM, which surprised quite a few in the audience.

The airman's TOS mirrored the officer construct with each rank gained equalling an extension of service. The NCA system was similar too, with further service dependant on promotion.

It did make the stay-or-leave decision for most quite a bit easier but the clock is ticking for those who need the transitional package asap. The gp capt did brief that the RAF transitional package had been developed but had stalled at ministerial level.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

I'm confused by the overall message. Everything I see at work talks about retention being so important, and doing things to value our people being essential. At the same time we introduce a new employment system which is designed to stop retaining people and engineer new ways to easily get rid of them.

For officer aircrew anyway I fail to see any positives so far. Were there any good points?

[teeteringhead]

Saw one a week or so ago. Not overly impressed - presentation was read from a script "so everyone gets exactly the same message...." :bored:

But the cruncher was "This is not definitely going to happen, these are just our aspirations ........ but it has to be agreed by all 3 Services."

Hmmmmm.

One thing I noticed (in a Joint context) is that OF4s will have guaranteed service to 60. Don't the RN chuck out their Cdrs at 50? Certainly used to IIRC.

[Just This Once...]

For officer aircrew anyway I fail to see any positives so far. Were there any good points?

Hmm… they have recognised the folly of reserve bands / removal of FP and this will be softened or deleted in toto, which is nice.

Beyond that errr, really struggling… the final shape will be service dependant rather than truly one-size fits nobody and err...anyone else remember a positive measure?

[Onceapilot]

The thing to consider is that, after you sign up to this poorer package (we value our people:E) , you are very likely to be asked to put your neck on the line, as is the way of military service. Will it be worth it:confused:?

OAP

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Removal of reserve band FP is a nice thing; I know lots of people who would have happily accepted an out-of-branch "broadening" tour when there weren't cockpits available but didn't because of the fear of a 25% pay cut.

Now, if the NEM removes a year without FP post PVR then I'll be particularly happy with the way it's driving me....!

[Lima Juliet]

One thing I noticed (in a Joint context) is that OF4s will have guaranteed service to 60. Don't the RN chuck out their Cdrs at 50? Certainly used to IIRC.

Lt Cdrs at age 50
Cdrs at age 53

Although the do have FTCs for aviators to age 55.

LJ :ok:

[ALM In Waiting]

Thanks for the info. Has anything been mentioned about market rates for quarters? Or unlocking pension lump sums early to fund deposits?

[4everAD]

Can't unlock anything if you're on AFPS 75, so again it'll be unfair on some as 05 members can access early. I would like to review my OTT 7 odd years ago! The goalposts for that decision have changed again.

[ALM In Waiting]

I take it that will continue to apply even when we are all put on AFPS15?

[4everAD]

That's my understanding as the benefits earnt on the new scheme 15 will be tiny to start with and the 24 years of AFPS 75 I have can't be touched early.

[Just This Once...]

It was suggested that the figures for 'unlocking' were not that attractive. On the other hand the new and enhanced scheme for advancement of pay to buy a house looked pretty reasonable; so those on '05 may choose that scheme rather then 'unlocking' anyway, just like those on '75.

I wonder why they don't make all these proposal easier to access?

[Whenurhappy]

When and where are these road shows being held? I've seen nothing about them and would love to explore this 'service to sixty' idea. Just in time for a bus pass...

[Just This Once...]

I fear if you went you would be disappointed. As alluded to earlier there are no (current) plans to offer service to age 60 for those that are in now; but they did outline the situation that a sqn ldr serving now who was promoted at a later date would then receive an offer to age 60. If this said sqn ldr was on '75 terms and in the 10-year protected cohort he would likely hit his maximum 34 years well ahead of his retirement.

It is going to be an incredibly complicated transition.

[ALM In Waiting]

Any mention of grandfather rights for current engagement lengths etc?

[alfred_the_great]

Sounds an interesting proposition.

I think the Armed Forces are going to have to really work on their man management, personnel placement and general Leadership qualities under the NEM.

With no pension trap, nor indeed a long term commitment from the 'system', I suspect life in the Armed Forces will become much, much more transactional.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

What about, say, new Sqn Ldrs promoted last year who're just taking on the rank now? Can they expect the rug to be pulled and their presumed service to 55 to retrospective adapt to 20/34/whatever years?

[Just This Once...]

Sqn ldrs promoted last year will be assimilated to age 55 in accordance with the current 'offer' and grandfather rights will apply(ish).

I say 'ish' as in the near future under the NEM they can be booted out with 12 months notice, so they may not make their 55 point. When the NEM goes live, if the proposed 'offer' stays unchanged, future promotions to sqn ldr will be on LOS 30 terms.

Alfred - 'Transactional' is a very good description for the envisaged future. I am not sure why we want the armed forces to be managed in this way but someone clearly thinks it is the future. 'Madness' is also a very good description.

[Party Animal]

Was anything said about the implementation date of the NEM? Understand, it requires a lot of fiddling with but are they hoping to have everything ready for a defined start time?

[Just This Once...]

The NEM is a package of measures with no set point for everything to be in place; oh and we have to be consulted before being ignored and that takes time…but...

The thing that is praying on their minds is the new pension scheme and that clock is ticking very loud. If they don't get the new TOS and transitional package in place sharpish it will be very very messy. Effectively they need the TOS and transitional measures in place by April.

[5 Forward 6 Back]

It's inspired me to make a thread asking if there are any financial reasons people would stay. But sticking in now as officer aircrew, even if promoted, doesn't really seem to make sense.

The only benefits were security, a relatively good salary, stability and the pension. The pension's been buggered around with, the salary remains, but now there's a 5-7 year pension gap at the end of your service and the chance that they'll throw you out with 12 months notice at any moment.

If even those on grandfather rights for their length of service can still be thrown out with 12 months notice, it pretty much makes the pension worthless. Witness the stories of late about people like Sgt Lee Nolan, with an exit date 3 days before he'd qualify for an immediate pension; I'm pretty sure that a lot of mates will end up getting redundancy just before EDP benefits in the future!!

I used to be very keen and it wouldn't take much to make me commit to 55 or 60 in the RAF. But is there any chance of them committing to me for the same period?

[teeteringhead]

Lt Cdrs at age 50
Cdrs at age 53

Thanks Leon. Still a lot more Cdr/years to find jobs for!

If it ever happens .........

[Just This Once...]

Just to be clear, the NEM varies from service to service. Just because wg cdrs will be offered service to 60 does not necessarily mean RN cdrs will be. I have not seen the RN version of the NEM.

[teeteringhead]

Just to be clear, the NEM varies from service to service. Not what was said at the Roadshow I saw ......

[alfred_the_great]

I am the first generation of Lt Cdrs to be promoted with a tx date of 55. 24 years more to go for me!

[Just This Once...]

Not what was said at the Roadshow I saw ......

Interesting development. So what was said at yours?

[teeteringhead]

So what was said at yours? The Tri-Service bit was developed during the questions. It was suggested that while not necessarily being 100% identical, "inter-Service negotiation would aim for maximum agreement" or words to that effect.

And of course "Joint" is often spelled A - R - M - Y ....... I think there will be a lot of blood on the wall in these negotiations.

After all, our (officer) pay rates are very Army-oriented, with (still) the big pay jumps at OF-4 and OF-6, because these are significant command milestones in the Army for Lt Cols and Brigadiers. Not as true for RN and RAF perhaps .......

[Party Animal]

The 12 months notice piece is interesting in a non-mass redundancy situation. I think we are approaching the point where the first person to be given 12 months notice to leave will make a legal challenge against breech of contract, assuming they had an expectation to serve to a point further downstream. After all, if it works for football managers.

Conversely, will those with a ROS against them also be able to ignore it and be able to give 12 months notice the other way round?

[snakepit]

NEM?

As recent ex RAF with 22 years service NEM sounds like the Betts report (options for change) on the cheap. I.E you all say, what the then government paid Betts to find out in the 90s, for free. The icing on the cake is that this time the government can AGAIN cherry pick the cost saving ideas and ignore the rest, but this time they can blame all who answered the survey! Genius!!!!

Just wait and see

[harrier123]

A couple of questions from me if anyone can help.

1, Does this mean our current contracts are worthless? I have about 12 years left.

2. Is this going to be in by 2015 or 2020?

3. Will redundancy be on the current financial terms or just 3 months pay as I have read?

Thanks

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Do we even have contracts?

I presume that existing commissions etc are fine, as JTO intimated, newly promoted Sqn Ldrs will still get to serve until 55 instead of LOS30. However, the pension changes are what they are, and I should imagine your engagement length doesn't mean you'll be protected from summary redundancy in the future.

[junket]

Harrier 123 - no - you will remain on your current engagement. If after 1 Apr 2015 you get promoted then you will switch to the new structures (what that is depends on your current rank). It will be in by 1 Apr 2015 in order to meet the new Pension scheme (they compliment each other). I think redundancy, after Apr 15 switches to AFRS 15 (3 months pay with 12 months notice I think but could be wrong)

Party Animal - what is wrong with 12 months notice, it is consistent with recent rounds of redundancy and outstrips what many companies provide in civvy street. Where can there be legal challenge

Teeteringhead - the brief is largely joint and caters for all 3 Services. The main differences are in the Engagement structures element which is single Service. NEM needs to be joint and take into account vagaries and inconsistencies between all 3 Services in an effort to try and iron them out. If we don't it makes the offer inefficient. I like your typically cynical ARMY blah, but at the moment the RAF is well ahead in terms of engagement with its personnel, and consequently we are providing the majority of the responses to the survey - seems to me to be RAF rather than Army, even more so when considering that the majority of the Army cant string a sentence together and have a reading age of 4 I would say we are in a fairly good position.

Implementation of NEM starts from Apr 2015 to coincide with the pension changes, so the revised engagement structures have to be sealed by then. Pay structure by 2016, HPI I think by late 15/early 16 and other role on from there. Not all into effect in one go but it has to be balanced against JPA changes which inevitably can take time.

Unclenelli your points are a bit misleading. PTW is quite a good thing if they ever get the fine detail sorted; by selection, not necessarily effect harmony if managed correctly, and there shouldn't be gapped posts. SLA/SFA not necessarily increase by 20%, and the 50% discount is misleading as a discount hasn't been decided. A recent brief mentioned that OR SFA probably wont change as they are very comparable to local housing authority prices (due to their size), but consequently officer SFA may, prices set by AFPRB who will require some convincing I can imagine as they have linked price increases with quality increase. The Reserves context you mention is what happened now when you go to ADC terms, I gather that the new construct is looking at how the disadvantages of reserve service can be ameliorated and thus enable the movement between the 2 constructs. Finally the pension aspect is interesting; remember you still have your preserved rights at age 55 due to your current scheme (if AFPS 75 like me) and it was briefed that they are working on the calculator to show an actuarially reduced pension between 55-60.

Whenurhappy - read IBN 22/13 as it has all the dates for briefs. I can see that they are about 60% through now already.

[harrier123]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Whenurhappy]

Thanks Junket. I am diaspora of the RAF diaspora - no access to DII (or JPA now) and my feeds from IPP have dried up, so I haven't seen the Internal Briefing Note. I'll speak to my very distant non-support unit to see if they could send me an abstract of the dates...

[junket]

Whenurhappy, dates left as follows

31 July benson, 1/2 Aug Odiham, 5-7 Aug Brize, 8 Aug Northolt, 9 Aug Halton

I understand that the diaspora will receive a DVD of a filmed presentation in the near future, and it will also be on Airspace along with the script and PowerPoint slides

[Whenurhappy]

Wow - that was quick! Sadly I'll be missing all of them as I am moving this week back to the UK to be administered by that well-known RAF unit, HMS Nelson...

I look forward to the DVD now!

[Onceapilot]

Junket quote " what is wrong with 12 months notice, it is consistent with recent rounds of redundancy and outstrips what many companies provide in civvy street".

You miss the whole point of military service for many service personel. There is a natural tie-in with long term security of employment and the acceptance of the real risks of military work and limited salary. This link looks likely to be sacrificed. I accept that chiselers on a greasy pole might not empathise with that opinion but, it was a reason for many to sign-up in the past!

OAP

[VinRouge]

I have no problems with accepting private sector redundancy terms as long as I have the right to hand in one month's notice.

Will this become enforceable for those on 75 pensions past 2015 and is this some form of cynical means of cutting the pensions bill for those of us who have fought and supported ops for the past 12 years and deserved them? Any grandfather rights in other words?

[Party Animal]

what is wrong with 12 months notice, it is consistent with recent rounds of redundancy and outstrips what many companies provide in civvy street. Where can there be legal challenge


I completely agree with the 2 posts above (#47/48).

If the govt decide to make drastic cuts to RAF numbers, then inevitably redundancies will occur. However, the 12 months notice under NEM sounds like Manning will be able to pick and choose at will individuals who may be very good at their job but in an unfortunate timing position based on fleets they are associated with. For example, those who happened to be in the Jaguar/F3/Harrier/Sentinel/Nimrod/VC10 world may be given short notice that their services are no longer required despite exemplary records of service and a piece of paper that says they will be employed for 22 years / age 55 etc.

Constant comparisons with civvy street miss the fact completely that we are an armed force who needs to have an agreed level of commitment that works both ways. Otherwise, next time I'm sent to war, I may choose to say 'no' as I've decided to leave next month.

Most civvies are not employed on defined contracted periods. Those that are expect to be paid for the length of the contract, which if terminated prematurely often results in legal cases or significantly more than 3 months pay off. Bottom line is that NEM suggests that signing on for an agreed period of time is in effect meaningless or totally worthless.

Glad to say I'll be gone before all these changes take effect but it is certainly a changing world.:(

[teeteringhead]

- seems to me to be RAF rather than Army, even more so when considering that the majority of the Army cant string a sentence together and have a reading age of 4 I would say we are in a fairly good position.

:ok::ok::ok:

[junket]

OAP, Vin Rouge and PA - I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think many joining the military now are doing so because it is a fairly attractive job, from which they will gain some good skills and will then move when the time is right for them. I really don't think that the job for life concept is prevalent in the minds of our younger joiners, both airman and officers.

Personally I would wish for better redundancy payouts and have said so in the NEM survey when commenting about the manpower control measures. I can see the utility (to the Service) in having better MCMs as having come from Manning not so long ago the current suite of measures is now ineffective. From what I have seen of NEM they will look to retain skilled personnel where they can as they mention a few times about the cost of retaining being far less than recruiting and training personnel. Will be interesting to see how they develop the measures.

[ALM In Waiting]

Had our first roadshow at the secret Oxford super base today and it was better than I expected. I'll answer any burning question if I can...

[alfred_the_great]

Without being a ****, can you give us a precis of the brief, specifically any subtle differences to what we've heard on here.

In many ways, for most of us, this is a case of not knowing what we don't know.

[downsizer]

ALM, what was said about Manning Control Measures...ie they will be able to terminate your service w/o a tranche of redundancies at a time of their choosing?

[Melchett01]

Does anyone know if the NEM briefings will ever make it to the Diaspora?

Frankly if you mentioned NEM to people round here, you'd get a blank look back at you wondering why you wanted a copy of a music magazine.

[Guest_22]

The roadshow is totally scripted, the better part is the open forum for questions at the end. The key message taken is to do the online survey else we'll end up with a half-a###d solution which will be as popular as PAYD (which the people who bothered with the surveys said we apparently wanted!). There is only 1 pot of money so must all be equal in the end so no miracle cure of being able to afford everything.

For those unable to attend a briefing I believe a video will be made a available at some point. Expect a raft of information in the (near) future as parts of NEM to be introduced next year and gradually more stages each year until 2017, all in before 2020.

[junket]

Melchett - it depends what part of the diaspora you are in. Cyprus has been briefed and there has been some consultation there. Same with Falklands last week. Belgium/NATO being done in September. As for briefings, there has been a DVD recorded of a brief at Marham I gather, which in understand will be on the streets in the next week or so.

Downsizer - 2 MCMs being proposed. First is Standing flexible something. Basically 12 months notice based upon similar terms (for selection) for redundancy. Meant to cover a capability reduction or sudden requirement to save a pot of money. Adds to the various manpower levers we have. You also get compensated on redundancy terms. The second is a career review, so the example used was they offer you 10 years, but review at say 5 and decide whether to keep you on. Briefer seemed to say that standing flexible was the preferred and very similar to what we have now under redundancy schemes, but could be used under set rules and criteria.

Alfred - I have heard the brief a couple of times now. Scripted to ensure consistency across all of the briefings, but many themes consistent with what I have written on here. Main aspect I got was the urgency to get the new engagement structures right as they have to implemented by 1 Apr 15 to meet new pension scheme. New pay model for jnr ranks (no high/low pay band or flip/flop etc), getting rid of AIPs and bringing in trade supplements to reward specialist training and responsibilities etc Accn deal to help us get a property, so an enhanced LSAP to about 50% of salary. Better geographic stability, in the main for ORs, but should impact on officer cadre (to an extent). Best bit was the Q&A, in particular the level of response from the 2 scribbly Gp Capts (one AIR and responsible for this and the other in NEM team) and the Sqn Ldr, who works for one of the Gp Capts, tended to be very good

[ALM In Waiting]

Apologies, posted my offer then duty called. Thanks again junket, you've largely covered the key points that were in our brief yesterday.

The 'LSAP on steroids' as the Gp Capt referred to it will be roughly half of salary capped to £25k. So for Sgts it was £15006 for some reason. Loan would be interest free, and as I understand it, you retain the right to SFA. However you would probably be expected to live in it, if it was within a reasonable distance to base (ten miles was quoted).

I asked whether the trade supplements would be pensionable (they are) and would specialist pay also be pensionable (no chance) were the replies.

The unlocking of pension not possible on AFPS75 because it is actually a pension, but ok under newer schemes because it is an Early Depature payment instead.

The manning stuff was as junket has stated, but apparently these powers already exist under QRs but are very rarely used.

Flying branch officers and NCA have slightly different engagement lengths based on completion of first OCU. I have details if any one wants them.
Officers I believe get signed on to EDP point and sgts to 12 years, and if signed on at 12 to LOS 30. Existing contracts are to be honoured with people being brought onto NEM ones when signed on or promoted.

SFA & SLA to remain a key part of the offer and no one is too be excluded based on time in service I.e. the first eight years stuff we have been hearing. Rents based on national average with a roughly 50% discount applied, more so if accommodation not up to grade one standard.

Hope this helps.

[alfred_the_great]

Cheers both.

[Melchett01]

Junket,

I'm definitely out of the mainstream, and probably even out of the mainstream diaspora at the moment in a UK based tri-service unit where there hasn't been a sniff of anything to do with NEM. Indeed, the vast majority of what I've come across in the past year or so on pensions, NEM etc has all been through PPrune!

[alfred_the_great]

It's not reached one of the major Dockyards.

[ralphmalph]

Junket......you sound like the stereotypical RAF officer...

I just hope you are not at a rank as to have wasted your expensive wider enlightenment!

[junket]

Ralphmalph - thanks!! I was just trying to help out by providing some information that should be helpful. If you are not interested then don't read.

Melchett - the Diaspora POC is Michael Rees based at AIR - if you have DII you can control k his name and start to get some info and he will make surer stuff is sent to you.

[defenceheadquarters]

Dear all,

As a member of the HQ AIR NEM Team, I have been asked to provide some information, principally for our Diaspora colleagues, on where to go to gain some greater insight into the NEM and also access to the main online survey.

What I am unable to do however, is to enter into any extended dialogue regards NEM, or provide my own opinions on what is being presented at the RAF Roadshows. Suffice what I can do is update you on where we are at present (from an RAF perspective):

Consultation – Focus Group and Interview consultation has largely been completed for the RAF elements where we have concentrated our activity at 4 distinct clutches around the UK (RAF Cosford, RAF Lossiemouth, RAF Cranwell and RAF Brize Norton). We will be gaining initial feedback from our consultation partner (KPMG) in late August and this will help to create a more targeted survey so we can gather focused information on the key themes coming from the feedback you have given us. RAF personnel have also been a part of consultation activity within the JFC domain in Cyprus, Falkland Islands and during September in Belgium, for NATO personnel.

Roadshows – By Friday 9 August we will have finished the RAF Roadshows, having visited 21 RAF bases and delivered a total of 117 briefs to just over 4000 personnel in 6 weeks. Whilst not a core element in the consultation process, the briefing teams recorded all of the questions asked and are using this data to help further define the key areas of concern from our personnel. General themes have centred on pay, house purchase opportunities and SFA/SLA charging, stability vs mobility and career management principles.

Online Survey – For those that have completed the survey you will have noted that it is easy to complete and free text. Naturally we encourage as many of our personnel to complete this survey and provide your opinions on what you have been briefed. Importantly we would also ask that when providing problems, you perceive, with what the NEM might look like, that you also suggest improvements. The information that we obtain from the survey is important and will help to shape the future of the NEM.

Briefing Notes – Defence Internal Brief 2013/37 provides a very useful overview on the NEM Consultation and a thorough run through of the main topics for examination within the NEM. The RAF IBN 22/13 provides the overview for RAF specific engagement in terms of Roadshows and Consultation. Both documents are hosted within the AIRSPACE portal, under the Information section. We are in the process of developing a specific NEM sub page which will go live in the very near future.

For those within the Diaspora we are conscious that information may not have got out to you yet. Therefore, we would appreciate if you could access the following links if possible:

NEM Online Survey hosted on the Defence Intranet and further information on NEM:
https://www.gov.uk/new-employment-model

The RAF Families Federation host some information on NEM here:
RAF. New Employment Model (NEM) - RAF Families Federation (http://www.raf-ff.org.uk/nem.asp)

We would also like to direct your attention to the recent article in the RAF News from AMP on NEM, dated Friday 2 August 13, and also an article from COS Pers dated Friday 1 February 2013.

We have also produced a Video Recording of a presentation at RAF Marham on 26 June. This DVD will be sent out to all contacts we have in the Diaspora by 23 August 13 and also hosted on AIRSPACE.

Should you have any specific questions or feedback you wish to raise then please do so by emailing the following mailbox – [email protected] - we would ask though that you constrain your questions to those of a more general nature on NEM design and proposals rather than personal queries on how NEM may affect your particular service. Finally, please do take part in this process, your views are absolutely vital to ensure that we get this right. Thank you.

[TomJoad]

Junket quote " what is wrong with 12 months notice, it is consistent with recent rounds of redundancy and outstrips what many companies provide in civvy street".

You miss the whole point of military service for many service personel. There is a natural tie-in with long term security of employment and the acceptance of the real risks of military work and limited salary. !

OAP

That may well have been the case say 20 years ago but no longer. Since early 1990 the military strength of the UK has been reducing together with relaxation of terms and conditions most notably of which has been pension arrangements. If you have been in during this term and you have not noticed, then well!

If you have recently joined and you signed up because you thought "job security" and "length of service" were a given then you did not do your homework. If you have not already noticed it and aligned your head around it then here it is - terms and conditions of employment, including pay, pension, security of employment within the military are moving away from the pre 1990 model and are being aligned to civilian practice.

[Rector16]

Thanks DHQ - really helpful of you. One audience that you seem to be missing is those of us deployed on Ops. I've just dropped an e-mail to the address that you gave which will hopefully create a link between the NEM team and those of us fighting the foreign foe.

[Lima Juliet]

I saw the NEM brief this week. It looks and smells like a cost saving measure to me with FS/WO and some Sqn Ldrs unable to serve all the way to the bitter end by default - therefore a much reduced pension that will be part preserved to age 65/66/66/67 (delete as applicable). This will be a big kick in the slats for them, although for Flying Branch Sqn Ldrs and above they will be offered the option to serve until age 60 (which is good news for the aircrew mates amongst us but very bad news for the 'guins). It also looked like the Senior Officers had looked after themselves and screwed everyone else.

The 'LSAP on steroids' seemed arse about face to me. The very people that needed a leg up to buy a house (SACs, Cpls and Sgts) were being given the chance to borrow the least money at an interest free rate - what idiot thought of that! :ugh:

I smelled a further cost saving rat with regards to allowances. One little gem seemed to be the amalgamation of overseas GYH with UK GYH - I'm pretty sure that UK GYH won't be raised to the overseas rate!

As usual, just like the FAFPS 15 anouncements, there was little detail on how this would affect reserves (in particular Full-Time Reserves). How on earth are we supposed to believe in this "Whole Force Concept" when the Reserves are always an afterthought in such massive consultations as NEM and FAFPS? :eek:

I came away feeling let down once again as I have over the past 24 years from others like PAY2000, Options For Change, AFPS05 OTT, SDSRs, etc... Maybe it is my complete niaivity that lets me down!!!

LJ

[Just This Once...]

...although for Flying Branch Sqn Ldrs and above they will be offered the option to serve until age 60

That is a fair change from the brief I attended. Any news for the PAS flt lts?

[Lima Juliet]

JTO

Yes, I was surprised as well going on what had been said already on this forum. However, the good Gp Capt showed a slide with Flying Branch Sqn Ldrs serving to the "MEOS" (can't remember what it stood for) to the age of 60. If its the same brief that you saw then other Sqn Ldrs had a shaded bar towards the MEOS showing they may be extended, but the Flying Branch Sqn Ldrs had a solid bar all the way through. No mention of Flt Lts though.

LJ

[Just This Once...]

Looks like they changed the slide between briefs. I guess during the 'consultancy' they have a bit of leeway.

[junket]

Leon J - interesting how 2 different people get 2 different views from the same presentation. This is my view on your points

It didn't sound like a savings exercise to me, rather a proper look at our offer and an attempt to try and shift it into a modern era. Numerous times it was said that any money saved would be placed back into the pot for the 'offer' - if they said that so many times I seriously doubt that they were lying.

In terms of the engagement structures it was briefed that they were just proposals at this stage. Probably like many I really am not a fan of having differing structures at the top end for officers and SNCOs, that is divisive and it would be good if it was altered. ie we all serve to 60 or something similar. Likewise I am no fan of keeping of aircrew sqn ldrs to 60 either. I appreciate that we need to retain aircrew, but the age 60 offer infers 59 year old pilots flying on the front line! Cant see that happening.

The enhanced LSAP offer makes perfect sense to me. When you actually look properly at what is being offered and get past the perceived inequality, it is all about what an individual can pay back and how that affects the mortgage offer. Basically if we gave SACs £25k for a deposit then it would affect, quite markedly, the mortgage available to them. Also we could be encouraging bad lending and potentially getting our people into the sub prime mortgage market. Not great and I am sure you would agree is irresponsible of the Service. However, the new LSAP is better than the 8.5k - the key is ensuring they get the fine detail right and that you can use the LSAP multiple times if require. Also you should get a fair remuneration if you are forced to sell a property you purchased with an LSAP, if the Service Need comes first, and you are posted to another location without a realistic prospect of being able to use your property.

I don't agree with your allowances bit - you have mixed up the Get You Home element that was briefed. They clearly said about combining LOA and Get You Home Overseas warrants at some point - for those who have been abroad that bit makes complete sense. There was no reference to UK Get You Home at all. Overall the allowances bit, from what I gather from the Odiham brief by CDP, was that the remuneration focus is on pay as that is pensionable (Allowances etc aren't), the allowances aspect is twiddling with the lack of clarity and amalgamating some that are never used. This is no bad thing.

As for Reserves, if you have been watching recently they are still working through the FR20 elements. It does say in the brief that the Reserves TACOS will move across to the NEM later in the year. This makes sense, so it is no surprise that the NEM brief is a bit short on the Reserves detail.

As I have said above, just my view on how I interpreted the brief.

[Lima Juliet]

Junkett

Fair dos, matey. With so little fine detail the presentation is open to wide interpretation. Maybe I'm just a bit more sceptical than you and after seeing so many of these over the years (I forgot to add New Management Strategy in my list above) :ok:

The FR2020 consultation was a joke when it came to FTRS. It basically rounded on the views of part-time reserves (ie. TA, RAuxAF and RNR). I suspect that the TA hijacked it with their higher number of returns to make it so TA-centric - I hope that this doesn't happen to NEM when the Army comment in higher numbers. Now when AFPS15 was put into the pensions calculator they neglected to add FTRS - all they needed to do was add another drop down menu and reference to one more look up table (which is hardly difficult).

Overall, I hope you're right old chum and that my scepticism is poorly placed.

LJ

[Al R]

I wonder what you make of this?

Why Our Best Officers Are Leaving - Tim Kane - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/why-our-best-officers-are-leaving/308346/?single_page=true)

The Army should start by breaking down its rigid promotion ladder. The most strongly recommended policy, which 90 percent agreed with, is to allow greater specialization. Under the current system, company and platoon commanders are often “promoted” to staff jobs—that is, transferred from commanding troops in battle to working behind a desk on a general’s staff—even if they’d prefer to specialize in a lower-ranking position they enjoy. Rather than take an advancement they don’t want, many quit the Army altogether. Expanding early-promotion opportunities for top performers and eliminating year-group promotions also have strong support (87 and 78 percent, respectively). All of this might be hard to do while maintaining centralized management of rank and job assignments, but three-quarters of the panel favored ditching that system entirely in favor of an internal job market.

Here is how a market alternative would work. Each commander would have sole hiring authority over the people in his unit. Officers would be free to apply for any job opening. If a major applied for an opening above his pay grade, the commander at that unit could hire him (and bear the consequences). Coordination could be done through existing online tools such as monster.com or careerbuilder.com (presumably those companies would be interested in offering rebranded versions for the military). If an officer chose to stay in a job longer than “normal” (“I just want to fly fighter jets, sir”), that would be solely between him and his commander.

[alfred_the_great]

DHQ - can you put the entire presentation on Scribd as a PDF (including the speaking notes)?

[Guest_22]

With the NEM potentially offering extension to individual terms of Service to l.o.s. 20, 30, 35 and 40 (for all ranks/branches) rather than the offer of a full career in one hit, what happens to PA Spine with NEM? The brief was remarkably thin on this area and I only thought about it after the brief.

Any clue anyone?

[Onceapilot]

Al, I make of it, that Military employment is in a race to the bottom of the "worthwhile career option" pool. Thanks for posting (I see it is not directly NEM).;)

OAP

[Onceapilot]

TomJoad, Thankyou for your response to my post. I believe you are incorrect in stating "Since early 1990 the military strength of the UK has been reducing". In fact, it has been reducing since 1945.:oh:
On another point, it would be good to see the NEM achieve improvements in terms and conditions of service, not the destruction of the UK armed forces, as we knew them!:uhoh:

OAP

[TomJoad]

TomJoad, Thankyou for your response to my post. I believe you are incorrect in stating "Since early 1990 the military strength of the UK has been reducing". In fact, it has been reducing since 1945.:oh:
On another point, it would be good to see the NEM achieve improvements in terms and conditions of service, not the destruction of the UK armed forces, as we knew them!:uhoh:

OAP

Cheers Onceapilot. I'm not going to die in ditch over that one simply to bring to my defence Euclid's postulate of equality (mathematical nonsense) - since 1945 predates 1990 then the military strength has therefore been reducing since 1990. :ok: In all seriousness the reason I referenced 1990 was that was the start of my service career. Throughout which it was defined by review after review that reduced our strength and eat away at our terms and conditions. That it has been happening since 1945 only supports my point further.;)