S 76 C++ vs BELL 412 EP vs as 365 N3 for OFFSHORE FLYING

[brar1776]

Which machine would you prefer if you have to operate offshore in HOT and HUMID conditions with temperatures ranging between 30 and 36 degrees celsius?

[GoodGrief]

Look at the Global Vectra fleet and decide...

[Anthony Supplebottom]

Really does depend on your load and the distance it must be carried.

In terms of tech support alone, the Bell is a reliable and known quantity.

[terminus mos]

C++ for me. The big operators with a fleet of them tell me its their best earner as its reliable and still makes good contract rates.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

The big operators with a fleet of them

And therein lies an additional determining point for type selection - fleet size.

S76's have generally performed better in numbers when, among other things, (sometimes considerable) local stores inventories can be justified.

In terms of operating costs it will be interesting to see what savings, if any, will be experienced through the D model.

[terminus mos]

AS

I don't think that's the case as much these days. We are using 2x C++ in a remote location 30+ degrees minimal spares on site due poor facilities flying daily since early June and have hardly missed a beat so far.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

TM, that's good to hear.

Sorry to ask the obvious but are you getting good tech support and spares delivery from SA?

[terminus mos]

Of course it's through the helicopter operator but they don't seem to have any supply issues from SAC. Their support has always been somewhere between in the middle between Bell and EC.

[brar1776]

Thank you all for your honest and professional opinions. There is just one point of concern here.I have myself been flying the Dauphin N3s offshore in Bombay high. For production flying we did find it ideal with very minimal maintainance issues.
However,statistics confirm that most of the Big operators are now goin in for S76s. None of my brethren from the Flightdecks from western Africa seem to have joined this discussion .May I request you to kindly give your feedbacks as well as there are a lot of operators out there who are flying a healthy mix of these machines
Cheers and happy touchdowns

[Phone Wind]

I've flown them all for a number of different clients and while as a pilot I always liked the N3, they were never that popular with the IOCs in Nigeria (except Total).
The Dauphin has practically disappeared from the offshore scene in Nigeria and the medium twin market is almost all S76 C+/C++ and Bell 412 EP. It then depends what you want to use them for.
The EPs are mostly used for short sector flights and offshore shuttles because of the ease of passenger access and the ability to configure one of the side bays for extra baggage or light freight.
The S76s are mostly used for longer sector flights (up to 140 nm) and for swamp operations.
The customers are looking at replacing the 412EPs now as they're perceived as old technology, but the replacement could be S76D or B412EPi. The S76C+/C++ cabin isn't liked by some of the IOCs and their staff because of the small exit windows so they're looking at the S76D once the later production models with the optional enlarged windows and larger windows that
meet FAA Type IV requirements and energy attenuating seats in the cabin as well as the cockpit become available.
Spares aren't the problem in Nigeria, it's just getting them delivered!

[brar1776]

Thank u so much for an exhaustive and a very professional reply.Maybe the N3s cabin is a bit cramped up with very little legroom and the access also not very good. I remember an offshore passenger occupying two seats.
How good is the OEI performance of S76 C++? As I said the Dauphin N3s are star performers in production flying.How about the performance of S 76 c++ in production flying,I mean in N3 u r pretty comfortable with your shrouded backside.Also,with a Max AUW lift off from your base and a crew change at 140 NM we can afford to carry how many passengers?
Thanking you in anticipation
Cheers and happy touchdowns

[Phone Wind]

brar1776,

The answer to your question really depends on what your rules are with regard to having an onshore diversion, fuel reserves etc., and what equipment you carry in your aircraft which, of course will affect the basic mass. Also if you have to carry shore diversion can you divert to an alternate closer than your departure airport/heliport (assuming the offshore location has fuel available so you don't necessarily have to carry round-trip fuel to your departure point).
Just as an example, looking at a typical S76C++ operated by my company, we have one offshore location at 132 nm from base, but with a diversion of 121 nm available. That would typically mean full fuel and in the case of this particular aircraft and available payload of 2,000 lbs. As for numbers, I guess how many beef-fed workers you carry in your oil patch :}

Remember that you can often do a little better than your nominal planning cruise altitude by going higher and getting a lower fuel burn. Depending on winds aloft in your area, a C++at FL50 or 60 mat well burn up to 80+ lbs/hr less than at 1,000 feet and even though Vne is lower at that altitude, TAS will be better, so you'll still probably average a 140 knot speed.

[SASless]

Longer distances....the 76.....short distance, freight hauling.....the 412. Never the Dauphin....that is one Whistling Pig too many.

The 412 is a workhorse....the 76 is a race horse.

Shuttling....412.

Lack of spares kills any aircraft choice.

[victor papa]

Out of interest, what is the issues with the Dauphine then exactly? Is it the EC factor or machine?

[HeliHenri]

.
Hello brar1776,

Seems difficult to compare the good Dauphin (Mtow 4300Kgs) with the good 412 and 76C (Mtow 5400 Kgs).

Between the 412EP and 76C++, the choice may be easy because currently you can't find 76C++ on the market !

.

[brar1776]

Thanks for your active participation. If we keep the rules of the game same for all machines,i mean same deviations,same outbound/inbound altitudes then keeping in mind the useful load carried,range,cruising speed,fuel consumption,cabin space for comfort of the passengers and the cost per mile which machine would you prefer?
thanks

[brar1776]

personally i have only flown the as365 n3 in the commercial category both on and offshore and love this machine. However,there has to be a reason

[brar1776]

Ya MTOW of Dauphin is much less than the bell 412 EP or the S76c++ but when you think in terms of the useful load carried,endurance,cruising speed,cost per nm and the cabin space one can always draw out some conclusions. S76 D should be entering the market soon.

[maeroda]

I'll use a 139, as the one I work with.

;-)))))))