Is an Aerobatic Rating a bonus for future employment?

[Bearcat F8F]

Hey everyone,

I'm doing a tailwheel conversion soon... and the aircraft I am doing it on just so happens to be a Decathlon.

So I was thinking of maybe killing two birds with one stone and getting the aerobatic rating whilst I'm there.

Do GA/ business jet operators like guys with a bit of varied experience especially aerobatics or is it pretty irrelevant? I mean is it worth doing any aerobatics now to increase the chances of future employment just that little bit more?


P.S. I love aerobatics (did some in gliders) and will get the rating one day or another... the only question is whether spending that money on it now is justifiable when I still have the CPL IR ME to complete! I'm just a PPL guy for now.

Thanks!

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

I don't think so.

[Cecco]

It's not a bonus for future employment but do it anyway if you have enough cash left besides the CPL MEP IR practical training! Being a FI seems to be an asset when looking for a job with some business jet operators.

Cecco

[Bearcat F8F]

OK, in that case it's probably sensible to wait until I have the fATPL in hand before I blow another £1000 :rolleyes:

I'm still tempted though :E

[jayteeto]

Is there such a thing as an aerobatic rating? I did them with cadets on bulldog and tutors but I also did them in a civil firefly fireflywithout a rating. Did I screw up?

[vjs]

Forget it, nowadays they want monkeys flying as straight as possible not interfering with the autopilot.

Most businessjetoperators have now data monitoring just to be a bigger pain in the ass. Do you think this people like someone who even has a aerobatic rating? Same with airlines.

Might help with ag jobs, propably the last flying job where you might have actually some fun flying. Rest is busdriving, did (and do) that since over 20 years.

[Bearcat F8F]

jayteeto, yes, apparently what used to be an endorsement (I guess) which involved 6 hours of aerobatic training is now a rating in EASA.

vjs, well, I understand where you're coming from but I did hear on a few occasions pilots from the corporate world saying that an aerobatic rating (or endorsement - whichever it is these days) shows much better abilities in this sector and is an added bonus for employment.

Isn't corporate flying quite challenging and fun at times with some good hands on flying... in and out of small, sometimes uncontrolled airports? Even short VFR routes sometimes?

Busdriving... I don't think all airline pilots would accept that... maybe in essence it is, but anyway, I wont go into details or argue about anything with someone who is clearly way more experienced than I am :ok: If it's called "busdriving" then that is what I want to do one day :E

P.S. Before I hit the big or small shiny jets I am more than open to GA possibilities like para dropping or anything really. That's partly why I want to do the tailwheel conversion just now... hopefully open up some more opportunities in the future.

[PURPLE PITOT]

It won't hurt. It won't help with airlines. It may help with GA, it will help with instructing/ meat bombing/ glider towing. It's fun, and will make you a better pilot. If you can budget for it, then do it.

[Bearcat F8F]

PURPLE PITOT,

Yes, I have my eyes set on glider towing at the moment. I have till December to make myself more sell-able. So my priorities are a tailwheel endorsement + more glider time. Not really sure how much of a bonus the aerobatic rating will be but I will find out.

I do really want to do it so I will have a good think about it. :ok:

Whats "meat bombing"?

[B200Drvr]

Parachute dropping, and yes it will make you a better, more confident and safer pilot as long as you don't use your aerobatic experience to be a cowboy. I would say if you can afford it, do it.

[Runaway Gun]

Bearcat, it might not help you got a job, but it just might save your life if you end up in an Unusual Attitude one day - in a light aircraft, biz jet, or even a passenger airliner.

Also, a Chief Pilot MIGHT just appreciate your skills, enthusiasm, and see it as a safety bonus to hire you instead of another guy.

So I say, go for it. :ok:

[Bearcat F8F]

Thanks for the opinions guys.

Yes, I think I'll go for it. It means I'll have to work harder to make up for the financial loss, but then again, £1000 is really a drop in the ocean when taking the full cost of flight training into account. I'm sure the knowledge I get will be irreplaceable!

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Nice thread! Even though I answered "I don't think so" I was kind of interested in this anyway just because I've always liked aerobatic flying. Well, I may go for it too if I will have some cash left.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

I doubt it will get you a job these days any more than if you had a masters in knitting.

However, the chap who landed the Virgin A340 at LHR in the 90s with a main gear hangup was a former British Aerobatic Champion..:ok:

[Bearcat F8F]

Chuffer, well, I decided it's too good an opportunity to give away. If it makes me a better pilot, then that is what I want :E

I know with the airlines they want "monkeys" who can "fly" computers well, but perhaps in the GA world where good HOTAS skills are essential, it may prove to be a 'nice' thing to have on the CV... maybe...

I'm counting every hour now... I can't wait!!! :{

[733driver]

True, G/A flying involves more handflying, VFR flying etc but I am not sure that too many of the skills involved with flying a light aerobatic aircraft translate into flying a swept-wing jet (for example). I am sure it makes you a better pilot in general but just how much better a commercial pilot it makes is open to debate, I think.

Even in G/A it's all about safe, economic, comfortable, quiet flying within the same envelope as airline flying.

Upset and stall recovery may be two areas where aerobatic training may help, but again, handling of a swept swing jet is quite different than that of a light aircraft and high altitude stalls are quite different to those down low in terms of recovery.

It's a similar question to the one whether or not a glider rating puts you in a better position when dealing with an all engines out scenario. maybe yes, maybe no. Your glide performance won't be nowhere near as good as in a glider so maybe the experience doesn't translate, maybe it does.

[vjs]

Just something to add to my previous post - sure it is fun to have such an endorsement. Practically in nowadays aviation it is useless. In the old days, having no monitoring(both airlines and GA) you could "shoot" sometimes a nice, sporty approach - this trained as well handflying skills which are worth a million if the **** hits the fan.
Today pilots(most, thank god not all) are a different caliber. A lot lack skills in manual flying. Before even unskilled guys could train to be better in flying if basic skills where missing. Today both options are not available anymore in most operations. You don't get skills in gliding down an ILS - even if it would be "raw data"(which is not leagal to do as well in the majority of operators). Consult your OM-A ;) , one would be surprised what's forbidden this days.

I can only(sadly) repeat - this profession has been killed by desk jockeys. And an aerobatic endorsement is now so important as having colourful feathers sticking in your ass :) during your interview - it doesn't help.
But is is fun, go for it if you got the money. The prices what they want to have now for an small (aerobatic) aircraft /hour are incredibly high(if you consider the money you are able to make), so think how often you would be able to do actual acro flying once finished.
Glider towing, meat bombing and all this stuff is good for hour building and training(did that as well before I joined my first turbine job, after that there was no time anymore for "playing"). Due too the high amount of approaches and landings this things are invaluable training grounds for new pilots.

Last but not least - talking of skill: See all this recent aircraft accidents done by "green" pilots, dircetly trained by the airlines. A lot of them have 150 hours and then going on an A330 or 777. Some "cadets" wrecked a good number of landing gears(QR was one of them, I hope they changed their trg. programme a bit). But this proofs again what airlines/Bizjet operators want: A guy who is able to fly (more or less) from A to B, hoping they make the landing :ok:

[Bearcat F8F]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll think a bit more about it :hmm:

[what next]

...having no monitoring(both airlines and GA) you could "shoot" sometimes a nice, sporty approach - this trained as well handflying skills which are worth a million if the **** hits the fan.

That reminds me of one of the biggest compliments I ever got in my flying career: While on a visual approach during a positioning flight in a Cessna Golden Eagle, the controller asked "Delta -whatever the callsign was- can you accept a short approach?" It was a bit late, we were high and fast but what the heck, of course I could, and how! Shortly thereafter, the controller said: "Lufthansa -whatever his callsign was- behind the twin Cessna on short final line up runway 25 (no second "behind" yet, that wasn't invented then)" and he replied "will line up behind the aerobatic twin on short final!". From his voice you could hear how much he would have loved to fly that approach himself!

For 1000 Pounds, go for it (it costs twice as much in my part of the world)! It won't help you find employment in our sector (no one I ever met in 20+ years commercial GA flying holds an aerobatic rating), but it's going to be the best fun you will get out of flying in the next 30 years. Once you have job, the only turns you will ever fly again will be around clouds...

[Bearcat F8F]

what next,

You mean the biggest amount of fun I will have until I form my own formation aerobatic squadron flying MiG-17s? :}

P.S. Your part of the world is Germany? The UK generally speaking aint cheap either. There's a place not far from me here in Scotland which charges £204/ hour for the Super Decathlon. The place I found in Derby wants £148/ hour dual for the Decathlon and that includes all costs such as landing fees. I almost think it would be rude not to use the opportunity since I'll have to do my tailwheel endorsement there anyway!

I'll keep thinking though!

[vjs]

Well said, what's next, well said...

[PURPLE PITOT]

When i grew up, one did not need a "rating" for aerobatics, one could self teach (not good), or rely on one's learning from HMFC. To Teach, you needed a " removal of restrictions". Unfortunately under EASA, you need a type rating on the paper with which you wipe your bum.

It will make you a better pilot. It Might save your ass one day, it might help save 300 asses. The number doesn't matter. One ass/airframe saved is worth the investment

[AU-501]

Hi Purple pitot eater,

Great fun doing aeros. You noted something about your need for you tail wheel training doing something with meat bombing and glider towing et al.

Rather than spending your hard earned oxfords or euros or whatever the local dins are called. Perhaps can the the decathlon and do your training in a c185, luscombe or even an Auster, something that will be a little more challenging and will carry more weight when you front up at the local tuggery, dz or the like actually probably go the C185. Just my two shackles worth.

Fly safe mate :-)

[kookaburra]

Do both tail wheel and aero's together.

You'll find that you get better value for money doing some aeros and circuit work on each flight rather than all of one.
Particularly an all aeros session. It can be too much of a head spin, pardon the pun.

I think it teaches alot of what should be in a cpl syllabus on stalling, spinning, crosswind landing technique.
You'll gain a lot of confidence in crosswind landing training reinforcement.

[Bearcat F8F]

Thanks for the suggestions fellas.

kookaburra, yes I was actually thinking the same thing. Technically, the tailwheel conversion has no set hours to complete, so if I'm flying a tail dragger doing aerobatic training anyway then it will undoubtedly save me some time doing the tailwheel conversion separately!

I can not wait! :}