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Rossian
15th Jul 2013, 14:37
It has been brought to my attention that a chap having to move out of quarters is being told he must get cleaners in before he marches out, although the next people to move in are the painters and decorators and new carpet fitters for a complete refurb.

The Ancient Mariner

Party Animal
15th Jul 2013, 14:49
Rossian,

Yes and no. Nothing has changed since your day in the sense that a MQ has to be spotless on vacation, even if the house will be demolished the next day. Using cleaners though is optional. An individual can still back out the kitchen door on hands and knees doing the job themselves if they wish to save money.

Rgd's.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
15th Jul 2013, 15:16
Having just painted an entire house, at least 75% of a painter's job is preparation. A top quality clean is a reasonable ask.

Wensleydale
15th Jul 2013, 15:19
Back in the 1980s, my Labrador pup ate through two kitchen doors in our quarter. Had to pay on march out even though a new kitchen was due to be fitted before the next tenants moved in. Did negotiate a good rate though!

Rossian
15th Jul 2013, 16:15
......was because I'd thought that this mentality had died out ages ago.

When we marched out of our first quarter at Ballykelly the families officer complimented my wife on the cleanliness of the house and then charged us 1/3d for a crack at one of the screwholes on the base of a toilet bowl. I then found on the F2?? that almost every tenant since the quarter had first been occupied had been charged the same amount. Had anything ever been done to fix it? Silly question.

The Ancient Mariner

sisemen
15th Jul 2013, 16:19
If you can't take a joke........

Damping a rag with 3-in-1 oil and wiping the surfaces of the cooker was always a good wheeze. It made the thing look almost brand new. Fortunately I never moved into a MQ where the previous occupant had discovered the same wheeze.

Biggus
15th Jul 2013, 16:44
I'll be moving out of quarters shortly on retirement. The patch I'm on is half empty, and I expect my quarter will be unoccupied for months to come. In edition it needs a new kitchen and carpets.

On my pre march out visit I was told I didn't need to clean the carpets, for the reason stated above, but the house needed to be in a generally clean condition. I'm paying to have the place cleaned, as life is too short, and my wife and I don't want to do it ourselves in our 50s.

Yes, it will cost a couple of hundred - however, that represents approx. the monthly saving I have been making on the cost of my quarter vs what it would cost to rent commercially in comparison (in terms of rent plus council tax).

It's just part of the deal when dealing with quarters, and probably always will be. While they are rising, in my area quarter rates are still very cheap compared to commercial rentals. That's the one of the plus points of quarters, the march out process is one of the negative points.

chopd95
15th Jul 2013, 17:14
Marching out of a hiring in Malta, usual preparation re spotless cooker etc, keen local civvy chap from families office spots a crack in the bidet (tres posh apartment). Eagerly reports same to the Families WO in charge. WO consults inventory, looks up and announces that there is no bidet on the inventory and therefore it does not exist, furthermore if bidet does not exist then neither does the crack ! I recalled doing him a favour at some stage in the tour -Lovely man !
I wonder if that spirit still exists?

seadrills
15th Jul 2013, 20:45
Why would anyone who was moving out of a privately rented house, a bought property or a family quarter not want to leave the property in an immaculate condition ? It is not hard to clean a house is it?

The Old Fat One
15th Jul 2013, 22:02
Cue favourite (and completely true) march out story.

Padstow...mid eighties.

Mate handed back qtr. Families Officer "good job on the cleaning blah blah".

Barrack Warden puzzled. "Carpet missing staff" Confused search for carpet and check of inventory. The light comes on...slowly.

Mate took over 3 bedroomed qtr and handed back 2 bedroomed qtr after demolishing upstairs wall to quote create a better living space unquote.

Damn near got away with it as well...but for that eagle eyed blanket stacker.

reynoldsno1
15th Jul 2013, 22:48
KOSB squaddie in a Berlin quarter in the early 70's knocked a hole in his bedroom wall so that he could watch telly in bed.... true! :\

Willard Whyte
15th Jul 2013, 23:31
Why would anyone who was moving out of a privately rented house, a bought property or a family quarter not want to leave the property in an immaculate condition ?Well, MQs (whatever) are generally 5h1t.

Moved in to 3 over the course of my job in the raf, none of which were particularly clean - or indeed worth a fraction of the rent being charged. All were certainly in a better condition when we moved out compared to when we moved in - nothing to do with DHE's efforts I might add.

On last march out duly paid the cash for a recommended cleaning biddy - life's too short to arse about with that sort of thing; when underling staff inspected property they proceeded to tread several clods of mud from the recently rained upon drive and pathway into the carpets.

Nuke the lot of 'em, houses and retard staff. They will not be missed.

Al R
16th Jul 2013, 07:35
Incident remembered with not much affection: Families officer at Aki who pulled out a rifle pull through with flannelette to check the internal condition of a mortice door lock. :\

Incident remembered with much affection: Meeting said officer a few years later for GDT/CCS. I volunteered to run the chamber session.

Wetstart Dryrun
16th Jul 2013, 08:43
The march-out was the most odious experience of life in the military.

No example of anal extemism is discountable - under the sink plug, under the buttons on the matress, keyhole with a cotton-bud. Really hateful stuff.

On the plus side, most quarters are held together with toothpaste in the holes left from pictures, coated with a swipe of magnolia (for officers) paint.

regards

wets

Whenurhappy
16th Jul 2013, 09:28
A friend of mine recently moved into a hiring at an ISODET in Germany. He's entitled to a 4 bedroomed house, so two apartments were knocked together (they already had inter-connecting doors), but that gave him 6 bedrooms. The Landlord was instructed by the DIO Housing Officer to lock off two bedrooms...

Our previous hiring had a sauna in the basement which 'had' to be removed by the Landlord before we could move in. Suffice to say the landlord simply removed the fuse-links and then handed them back to me after the march in...when we moved out, the Housing officer counted all the holes in the woodwork (and most rooms were wood-panelled - no Magnolia was harmed in the building of this hiring). A pointless task as the 18th Century beams had loads of ancient worm holes...

We are returning to SFA shortly (yes, I know, a shock after a number of years of overseas Service) and have been told that 'light fittings and lampshades are not provided, as these are covered by the (much-reduced disturbance) allowance...' Can anyone confirm this?

Union Jack
16th Jul 2013, 10:40
Is this sort of thing common?

Common? Common? Judging by many of the foregoing remarks, the whole system seems positively plebeian!:)

Jack

OutlawPete
16th Jul 2013, 11:01
DHE civvy officer refused to sign my clearance card on demob as I still needed the MQ to house my family for two months while my house was being built. Put me in a catch 22 as I then couldn't clear to start new job. Fortunately blue suiters in handbrake house knew he was a tool and sorted it. The same DHE officer then insisted on fortnightly inspections of the MQ and made my family feel like sqautters. It was the only time in my whole career where I truely felt hostility from the RAF.

When I met him for the march out day he assumed it would be a regular event of the over-the-top scrutinising that he was known for. Not so, I handed him the keys and off I f@cked!

Whenurhappy
16th Jul 2013, 11:30
Certainly it is Common.

We were back in the UK a couple of weeks ago and speaking with some civilian friends who were genuinely shocked when we explained that we had to clean the house to a high standard. Their response is 'Well, we'd leave it as we left; they can deduct cleaning costs from the bond'.

That may be so, but I would not like to leave my SFA in a mess, for my sucessor to clean up.

Rossian
16th Jul 2013, 11:37
......is the organisation now not known as DIO? But the mentality seems to be the same.
What seems daft to me is that the person mentioned in the OP is leaving on medical discharge and can ill afford the cost of external cleaners when all the work is going to be undone anyway. It seems to be a very petty minded bureaucracy occupied with process rather than practicalities. The French used to have a phrase translated as "petty functionary" usually followed by a spit. It is clearly alive and well still in this organisation.

Back to my time at BKY - the families officer died and until a replacement could be found, it was decided that the Orderly Officer would do march-outs.
I was sponned to do a chap who lived round the corner from me - he and missus were on their way to Changi the next day.
They decided to have a "empty the drinks cabinet party" plus a barrel from the mess.
He decide that rather than clamp the beer pump to the kitchen table he'd fix it to the wall with two six inch nails! "A swift sharp pull will take it off the wall and two dabs of polyfilla completes the job" was his rationale.
During the party, discussion amongst the ladies turned to the general boringness of the decor (magnolia was mentioned). The lady of the house was an artist and got out her paints and a giraffe was painted up the stairwell, feet on the bottom landing and turning round two right angles up to top landing. Hurrah! they all cried, a great improvement.
0830 next morning I meet the team and in we go. The "swift sharp tug" ploy had gone adrift and about 4 sq.ft. of plaster came with it. It went downhill from there......
They did eventually get to the ferry to Liverpool but on the motorway lancashire's finest pulled over their NI registered rust bucket (no MOT there)
and said no way are you continuing with that heap. Got him card boxes from a supermarket and took them to the station. How they managed to check in all these boxes at Lyneham is lost in the mists of time?
So it's not always easy from the official's POV.

The Ancient Mariner

oxenos
16th Jul 2013, 12:36
No matter what you do, it is impossible to clean a used frying pan to as-new standard.
Tip we were given at Kinloss (1970, our only time in quarters). Off to the auction rooms in Forres, where all the "condemned" quarters stuff was sold off. Buy a frying pan for next to nothing (there were a lot of them). March in, put the brand new issue pan in a cupboard for two years, and produce it unused for marching out.
The used pan was a lovely solid aluminium one - we went on using it for 30 odd years.

Akrotiri bad boy
16th Jul 2013, 12:52
Cooking with an aluminium pan for 30 years? You must be well on your way to being sectioned by now!:}

500N
16th Jul 2013, 13:00
30 years is a long time but a good quality frying pan, looked after well
will last for years. Why become part of throwaway society ?


oxenos
My family (parents) still has the one purchased in the UK in the 70's,
still used occasionally, good quality thick Aluminium with
high sides, something missing from even good one's today !

downsizer
16th Jul 2013, 15:17
and have been told that 'light fittings and lampshades are not provided, as these are covered by the (much-reduced disturbance) allowance...' Can anyone confirm this?

This is true, DIO no longer provide lampshades/lightfittings. But I'm not sure that DA is actually for covering the cost as such. They simply don't provide any more. And to be fair they've always been pretty sh1te anyway.

Tinribs
16th Jul 2013, 15:35
My two abiding memories of living in married quarters left me determined never to do it again.

When two Canberra squadrons arrived at West Raynham we were all mystified why we kept getting moved arround into empty quarters. Eventually we twigged, cleaning them up.

Next winter we were warned to ensure our loft pipes did not freeze up as it was our responsibility and we would be charged for damage. Checked the loft, no insulation on pipes. Visited the family man he said yes they are all like that just leave the heating on and the loft hatch open.

Saw works and bricks man asked if any houses had insulation could we move, only the family off has had it done, funny that.

Moved out, never went back

gr4techie
16th Jul 2013, 15:45
I heard a tale where an Airman was moving out of his MQ. No surprises the DIO witch who did the march out moaned about the carpet and billed him for a new one.
The Airman thought this was a scam and as there was nothing wrong with the carpets, he reckoned they wouldnt be replaced and maybe cleaned again at the most.
So, the Airman payed his bill for a new carpet and took a stanley knife and cut a big square out of the middle of the carpet and took it with him.
The DIO witch said "Whoa wtf are you doing"? He explained that if he's paid for the carpet it now belongs to him.

I've also heard when people moved into a MQ. The first thing they did is remove the cooker, put it into storage in the garage or shed and replace it with their own cooker. Years later, when they come to marching out, they put the original unused cooker back. The DIO witch cant moan about the cooker being unclean then. It is literally as they found it.

thing
16th Jul 2013, 16:01
I couldn't wait to move out of MQ's, they were a disgrace even in my time. Bought my first house when I was 24, best move I ever made.

The worst instance of the caring RAF that I heard of was a young girl who was around three months pregnant whos husband was posted away to Scotland. She did her best to clean up the house but sadly had a miscarriage on the bed, which of course left staining. The good old FO told her the matress was a disgrace when she marched out and she would be charged for a new one. He knew full well the circumstances. Poor girl broke down in tears.

One that still rankles with me is when my wife had cancer and had to have a hysterectomy (which luckily caught it). I asked for compassionate leave to look after my kids as it's not an operation that you recover from in 24 hours. Request denied. I then asked to use my normal leave. Request denied. When I asked my boss exactly what he expected me to do with my children his very words were 'If you can't cope, have them put into care.' What a nice man he was.

Talking of longevity, we still have the same tumble drier that we bought when we were married 35 years ago. And yes, it still works...

NutLoose
16th Jul 2013, 16:02
I remember my friends quarter at Church Crookham, they were new build with fitted carpets.... when i looked around i asked him why the carpet was about 2 foot away from a wall? he said that to be deemed a fitted carpet in RAF parlance it had the requirement to touch two walls only, so to save money there was this large gap with polished floor running around the other two..

Thing the trick with RAF mattresses is to circle it and initial it.... spilt a load of stuff over mine and as it had signed circles on it i simply added more............. and know it wasn't wee.

As to the poster who they wouldn't sign his clearance chit when he left, I used to sign most of mine myself when posted, and certainly when I left :E

If i'd lived at say Odiham for seven years then as long as accounts, accomodation, med section and the clothing stores was signed for, the rest was window dressing, even if i still had stuff signed out in the gym, they had a sig next to it so were happy as Larry, who was I to burst their bubble. just several coloured pens and an illegible scrawl.... job done.


..

thing
16th Jul 2013, 16:13
I seem to remember airmen's quarters had to have carpets that didn't touch the walls IE there was a foot or so of lino all round and officer's quarters had fitted carpets. Maybe urban myth, prepared to be told otherwise on that one. I know in the 80's my friend's quarter was recarpeted with fitted carpets so maybe it ended around then.

Edit: I used to sign all of my 'posted' chits too. Never took advantage, all things were returned to their proper abode, just couldn't be arsed trailing to some section I'd never been to so they could make sure I didn't have a sprogget wallaker signed out.

sitigeltfel
16th Jul 2013, 19:26
Mate took over 3 bedroomed qtr and handed back 2 bedroomed qtr after demolishing upstairs wall to quote create a better living space unquote.

Some of the semi-detached, three bedroom, quarters at Bawtry were built so that a wall on the first floor corridor could be moved to create one four, and one two bedroom quarter. No one could explain how the electricity supply to the bedrooms was partitioned.

OutlawPete
16th Jul 2013, 20:29
Told the other half about this thread and she reminded me if the time we were posted to a new unit. One child and another due imminently so I requested a 3 bed AMQ instead of a 2. Got refused by a female DHE officer on the grounds that my wife hadn't had baby no. 2 yet and in her words "anything could happen". I asked her to be specific and she was. Some people in some positions, especially civvys seemed to love wielding the small amount of power they have.

NutLoose
16th Jul 2013, 21:00
On an inspection of the Married patch at Odiham they found an extension cable running from a garage, across the fence then through a window into the singlies block and was plugged into a socket marked do not turn off, the other end had a married guys fridge and freezer plugged in to it.

oxenos
17th Jul 2013, 15:09
"Cooking with an aluminium pan for 30 years? You must be well on your way to being sectioned by now"

That would explain a lot. I can't remember what it would explain, but it would. What were we talking about?

Ray Dahvectac
17th Jul 2013, 16:19
I seem to remember airmen's quarters had to have carpets that didn't touch the walls IE there was a foot or so of lino all round and officer's quarters had fitted carpets. Maybe urban myth, prepared to be told otherwise on that one. I know in the 80's my friend's quarter was recarpeted with fitted carpets so maybe it ended around then.

Possibly the same urban myth, but in the late 70s/early 80s ISK had a surplus of OMQs and a shortage of AMQs. A street on the edge of the OMQs was redesignated for use by airmen and yes, Barrack Stores allegedly went into every house and removed 12 inches of carpet all around each room on the grounds that "Airmen are not entitled to fitted carpets". :rolleyes:

And it would be early 90s when a colleague informed my boss that he was invited to a "Amontillado and Literature" evening at his quarter. He had just been promoted to MACR and his wife called the Sqn to say that Barrack Stores had just been round to drop off the additional items to which he was entitled: 6 sherry glasses and a bookcase. :hmm:

sisemen
17th Jul 2013, 16:31
The used pan was a lovely solid aluminium one - we went on using it for 30 odd years.

The RAF had lovely solid aluminium cooking pans.

Given the link between aluminium and alzheimers one wonders whether we are all in the boat for a class action???

dubbleyew eight
17th Jul 2013, 17:27
the english quartermasters aren't the only insane ones.
I once helped my friend rossow move into a married quarter.

in the entire house there were just 3 power points.
get this. not one powerpoint was near the kitchen.

stupid? crazy? or just moronic? couldnt believe it.

Old Ned
17th Jul 2013, 18:39
Any of you older guys/gals remember the Robson Report? AVM Robbie Robson, a great guy, was pinged to write a report as he was retiring from the Service and their airships couldn't find anything better for him to do. His report, inter alia, absolutely damned the then current march-out system where the MQ had to be spotless (white gloves down the bog etc) whereas nothing was touched until the new family moved in, often to a dusty cobwebbed house. The results were too true for the AFB and therefore kicked into the long grass. ça change, plus c'est la même chose (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=plus%20que%20le%20change&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fdictionary%2Fplus%2520%25C3%25A7a%2520change%2 C%2520plus%2520c'est%2520la%2520m%25C3%25AAme%2520chose&ei=DeTmUfHsKom80QWssYH4BA&usg=AFQjCNGSf5fBeudHcw1Nmvt7Us5aX5cIkA&bvm=bv.49405654,d.d2k)as the French so aptly say!

Pip Pip

ON

fedex727
23rd Jul 2013, 09:37
During the refurb of the on base quarters at Bruggen, early 80's, local contractors laid fitted carpets in all houses. They were then told to remove 6" all the way around the AMQ carpets, as only OMQs were allowed to be fully fitted. Baffled contractors complied but left offcuts for occupants use. :hmm:

MATELO
23rd Jul 2013, 10:25
A good friend of mine was posted back to the UK after a tour in Cyprus.

On his wage slip he noticed a payment for damages. On asking what it was for, he was told it was damages to his married quarter in Cyprus for £100,000. He was left stunned and confused. He challenged it and was told it was a correct payment and would have to continue.

6 months down the line, after much discussion, it came to light that he had been charged £10 for a light socket (which my mate knew about) but the person out in Cyprus had been a bit keen and accidentally miscalculated the going exchange rate somewhat.

teeteringhead
23rd Jul 2013, 11:35
in the entire house there were just 3 power points.
get this. not one powerpoint was near the kitchen.

stupid? crazy? or just moronic? couldnt believe it. One is reminded of when one once lived in MQs at Shawbury.

With the traditional end of FY underspend, it was duly announced that the "big old" quarters would be provided with plumbing for washing machines in the (enormous) downstairs loo. This was duly accommplished . . . and we then pointed out that there was no socket in said downsatirs loo.

"Ah" said the system, "you'll have to use the socket in the hall - extensions leads are available if necessary"

"But, but," we responded, "what if the downstairs loo is needed for its - ahem :O - primary duty while a wash is on. We cannot shut the door!".

"Ah" they replied, "good point - we will fix!"

And in due course a tradesman appeared - a carpenter - who cut a small triangle from the bottom of the door, so you could shut the door with the extension lead in place! How elegant a solution.....

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

NutLoose
23rd Jul 2013, 11:39
Whilst at St Athans in 76 tragedy struck, the new Airman's married quarters had an internal glass partition / door and some young girl running down stairs went straight through it resulting in some horrendous scarring..
If memory serves me correctly either safety glass hadn't been specified or the wrong glass installed, but a rapid programme of replacement was undertaken, we were all shocked at the time over it, poor blighter..


..

Deepest Norfolk
23rd Jul 2013, 12:55
Posted to that hell hole SCATCC Mil in the late seventies. Work in Prestwick, house in Kilmarnock and no service transport (use the bus laddie). I think they posted all the nasty tw**s of SNCOs etc there because life was a misery.

AMQs looked after by the Navy as we were a lodger unit of HMS Gannet. We had a new carpet laid and them they came and cut a foot off either end because it was nearly a fitted carpet and, as we are well aware from here, ORs are not entitled.

Horrendous march out by the ar**hole of a navy Families Civilian who charged me the earth. Got to next posting, whinged mightily to my new CO who did likewise up the line and eventually had the whole lot written off as ridiculous knitpicking by a vindictive.....etc etc etc.

Last posting at Marham and we moved into our own house that we'd bought earlier in anticipation. Got my first pay slip and had been charged MQ rent. Went over to handbrake house to see what had gone on. Some thick PANDA clerk had decided that as he had no record of me living in, I must be in MQs and charged me thus. I'd have to wait until next payday to sort it out. DN has sense of humour failure only helped by the chief clerk, a kindly elderly sort of chap who said come back in half an hour and he'd give me cash after issuing attitude and trade training adjustment to PANDA (or whatever they'd become by then).

MQs and anything to do with them was still stuck in the eighteen hundreds when I left.

DN

sisemen
23rd Jul 2013, 15:32
as only OMQs were allowed to be fully fitted

If yer wanted fitted carpets then yer shoulda dun better at school. :E

FantomZorbin
23rd Jul 2013, 20:36
One is reminded of when one once lived in MQs at Shawbury

Erhem .. you should have waited for the resident washing machine installers (contactable via the SATCO's office :E)

fedex727

Same thing happened at RAF Shawbury except that the 6" removers made such a hash of it another contract had to be let to remove the ruined carpets* and replace them.:ugh:

* Offcuts could be bought at 'Whoppey Phillips' in Shrewsbury for any 'remedial' work prior to march-out!!

Wander00
23rd Jul 2013, 21:34
Old Ned - "Robson Report" - could be the start of a whole new thread. One of the finest men I ever worked for -when he was DDIOT at Cranwell. (Except for his bl@@dy dog). Went on to be DPR (RAF) - watched the Panorama report on BBC1 when he was at Civil Service Staff College lecturing to the Joint service PR Course - he chuckled all the way through - "picked that hint up then", "did not tell them that" and so on. When he was promoted 2 star the headline in the Sleaford Standard was "Local Farmer Promoted" - he kept about 100 sheep around Rauceby somewhere. If the airships wanted a report on officers' careers that did not rock the boat, they should not have asked RR to write it. Smashing bloke - hope he is still around.

sisemen
24th Jul 2013, 01:17
Was OC PMS at Wittering, having recently left DIOT, when Bobby Robson visited to do some sort of "fact finding" tour. I had arranged all the usual things and, as it was a short notice visit, met him at the guardroom to give him a copy of the Visit Instruction.

He took one look at it and then said "Jump in the car Al, you can show me what really happens and bugger the VI".

I did a quick phone call to the boss to tell him what was up and that I would be unavailable for most of the rest of the day and Bobby Robson got the real story which he wouldn't otherwise have got.

Top bloke.

AR1
25th Jul 2013, 07:30
We've all got 'em. Here are a couple of mine.

Fined £50 to replace mattress that was 'marked' - I'd had it in its plastic cover since issued and it was unused in bedroom 2 I removed the cover for march out. The 'mark' was where the cover had been taped on.

Fined to polish out a watermark on a dining table, finding a similar mark in mew new home I complained only to be told. We don't polish anymore.

Opened the door to let the SWO in (he did march outs at Mac') to be told. "This wont take long unless you're a dirty B@stard in which case we'll be here all day. He then accused my dog op peeing on a carpet which was damp from my leaking window and tried to bill me for a new one. Cue Barrack Warden to save the day telling him it was issued to an OMQ 30 years earlier.

Biggus
25th Jul 2013, 17:08
Some balance to the argument.....

I don't march out for a couple of weeks, so have that pleasure to come. However, in the last 12 months while living in quarters I have:


Paid £280 a month in rent (ignoring the council tax element) for a 3 bedroom house, the equivalent of which would cost at least £500-£650 in the private sector.

Mentioned a slight fault in the bath (to avoid march out complications) only to have a new one fitted within days.

Had a replacement cooker installed when the old one started to die.

Had an issue with a slow to drain sink outflow, only to have someone come round and rod it within about 3 hours. The date was 31 Jan!!

Had any issue I have had dealt with quickly, efficiently and to my satisfaction. With most private landlords it would have taken weeks.

Delayed my march out at short notice, only to find the system totally accommodating to my situation.


So far all the staff I have encountered have been helpful, courteous, and efficient. But good news stories aren't as entertaining/dramatic......

thing
25th Jul 2013, 20:01
If yer wanted fitted carpets then yer shoulda dun better at school. :E

Ooh be careful there...Hornet's nest poked! :E

Ex airman HND, BSc.

NutLoose
25th Jul 2013, 20:06
Biggus, look forward to your update in a couple of weeks :E





..

thing
25th Jul 2013, 20:14
Point is Biggus, that's the service you should get. When the system fails they should be rightly lambasted.

AR1
26th Jul 2013, 06:51
MQ's serve a purpose no doubt. Could be better - certainly. But the point is here that exiting one without getting stung was and still is a lottery.

sisemen
26th Jul 2013, 07:57
One man's "clean as a new pin" is another man's "hovel". Twas ever thus and happens with bells on in civvy street.

AR1
26th Jul 2013, 08:35
You're not wrong there Sisemen. I exited my last owned home having spent a couple of days cleaning it (old habits and all) Only to find the Copper who sold me his, had absolutely no compunction about walking out and not touching anything - maybe he was miffed that he'd come down 70k on the asking price... :). At least the marchout guaranteed to a large degree that you walk into something akin to the one you left.

endplay
26th Jul 2013, 09:57
One positive of the march out regime was that it took the fear out of deep cleaning. I got £12.5k off the price of my first house as it was in such a disgusting state that it put buyers off. (No smell of fresh baked bread but plenty of smells) It took my wife and I a week of concentrated elbow grease, including "flea bombs" and it came up like a new pin. Retrospective thanks to some of the total a#*#h*#*s I met on too many march outs to list.

TomJoad
26th Jul 2013, 10:15
Well, MQs (whatever) are generally 5h1t.

Moved in to 3 over the course of my job in the raf, none of which were particularly clean - or indeed worth a fraction of the rent being charged. All were certainly in a better condition when we moved out compared to when we moved in - nothing to do with DHE's efforts I might add.

On last march out duly paid the cash for a recommended cleaning biddy - life's too short to arse about with that sort of thing; when underling staff inspected property they proceeded to tread several clods of mud from the recently rained upon drive and pathway into the carpets.

Nuke the lot of 'em, houses and retard staff. They will not be missed.


Funny how everyone leaves their quarters in better condition than they found them:= As for being a drudge and an odious part of military life (quoted elsewhere) get a freaking life. It's a normal and expected courtesy to clean up after yourself. Hell's teeth, if you found cleaning a house so difficult how did you cope with life and you would certainly have been misplaced in your military career. As for the need for the march out system well just look at the story of the arses that "knocked down walls to turn 3 bed into a 2 bed" or put holes in walls to "watch the telly from bed". Yes wouldn't it be fun to take over a quarter from them :ugh:

kkbuk
26th Jul 2013, 22:25
In 1972 I took over an officer's quarter in Singapore and the MQ wallah removed twelve breakfast plates and issued twelve dinner plates bringing the total to 24 dinner plates. He removed twelve Aberdeen tumblers and issued twelve naval 'tot' glasses bringing that total to 24. I also moved from one officer's quarter in Dunoon (which hadn't been trifled with) into another four-bedroomed detached bungalow next door which had been refurbished for my takeover. Gone were the fitted carpets, replaced by VERY expensive cortisene and nearly fitted carpets. This exercise cost much, much more than mere fitted carpets but as I was not an officer fitted carpets were not for me! The local 'Man from the Ministry' had wanted the cheaper option but was overridden by his Naval overlords who obviously didn't want a mere rating having ideas above his station!

Courtney Mil
27th Jul 2013, 09:52
Tom Joad, spot on, Mate.

It's a normal and expected courtesy to clean up after yourself. Hell's teeth, if you found cleaning a house so difficult how did you cope with life and you would certainly have been misplaced in your military career.

It was so much fun marching into a quarter that had been left in a complete sh*t heap. (I wonder what they did with the money the previous occupants were charged for cleaning?)

The whole idea that ORs are not entitled to fitted carpets brings to mind Bill Bailey's "Das ist Verboten".

Bill Bailey on the Imperial March - YouTube

NutLoose
27th Jul 2013, 12:45
It was so much fun marching into a quarter that had been left in a complete sh*t heap. (I wonder what they did with the money the previous occupants were charged for cleaning?)

Same as single accommodation, they would try to palm you off with mattresses's that had circled stains in, mattresses that someone had paid to be cleaned but obviously never had been, I used to refuse them..

Wander00
27th Jul 2013, 15:11
We run a couple of gites in the Vendee. people generally stay for a week or a fortnight. We don't take a "cleaning" deposit, nor do we ask people to leave the gite other than "tidy". however, the differences between families and how they leave the place can be large. witness today - 2 families left at 1000 - in one gite we found the place like a new pin, sheets stripped and folded, with the towels. The other - beds as they got out of them, gite had not been swept for a week (ie when they complained about the spiders' overnight labours), and fridge left grubby, with bits of food - takes all sorts.............

Pontius Navigator
27th Jul 2013, 21:24
Why would anyone who was moving out of a privately rented house, a bought property or a family quarter not want to leave the property in an immaculate condition ? It is not hard to clean a house is it?

You jest surely? Well as far as a privately rented house or bought property. I refer not to your Serviceman but to many civilians at large who may simply walk out.

In the second house we bought there was a breakfast, minus plate, in one of the bedroom wardrobes.

Pontius Navigator
27th Jul 2013, 21:30
It was so much fun marching into a quarter that had been left in a complete sh*t heap.

We assisted at a march in at Halton last year or so. The quarter had been empty some months and then repainted and carpeted. The painter had sneezed and the hall carpet had to be replaced again. A day or so later, in the kitchen, I leaned against the kitchen worktop and spread my hands either side and underneath.

It was like handling anti-burglar paint. The surfaces were thick with black sticky grease. All the work tops were replaced a week later.

Whenurhappy
28th Jul 2013, 07:53
Whilst we have been on a series of overseas tours (I sense all your sympathy) we have let our family home as an up-market holiday let, located in a NAtional Park. It is professional cleaned on each turn around and it is furnished with antiques and high quality fittings. There have been very few problems. Family groups seem to respect it and generally leave the house clean and tidy. Echoing others here, the only time we had a complaint from guests (about the Aga, of all things) they left the place like a tip - bags of rubbish in the garden, mud tramped through the house etc. Basically, most guests leave the house as they find it. However, as mentioned earlier, we've had civilian friends visit who were genuinely intrigued that we would bother to clean the hiring when we left. Even though we point out that we are required to, they still seem perplexed. I suppose it down to your own standards.

As we are about to leave our hiring, we are working hard to make it clean and presentable (there's no option here for a quarter cleaning service) yet I will be in trepidation when the DIO chap turns up, along with a Federal Housing Ministry representative, in a few days' time.

I will be interested to see what our new SFA in the UK will be like - I visited a month or so back and it had been vacant for about a year and there was bird poo all down the front door and over the door step from a nest in the porch. It was dusty inside, with loads of cobwebs, and the garden was overgrown. I've been assured that both house and garden will be sorted out before we march in. The carpets are an interesting bright blue colour, whilst the kitchen flooring is a fetching grey. What was wrong with BMW as the decoration code? At least it was inoffensive and most furnishings would blend in. But blue?

We've also gone for MOD furniture because of the relatively short time we are back in tHe UK (I'm on a course) so it will be interesting to see what is delivered from the Corporate Dressing-up box. I'll keep you posted.

Biggus
9th Aug 2013, 13:47
Nutloose,

The update you asked for.....

My part in the march out lasted 23 minutes, from the moment the "marching out" official arrived until the moment I drove away smiling. Most of the 23 minutes was taken up with:

a) Reading the meters.

b) The official checking all the keys did work for the locks stipulated, despite me having arranged them in suitable groups beforehand.

c) Checking that the wheelie bins were both present and clean (I only gave them a rinse out with a hose).

d) A brief walk around by the official while I waited outside in the sunshine.


There were no white gloves in sight at any point!!

Old Ned
9th Aug 2013, 14:31
W00

Have been AWOL for a bit and beyond PP. Agree with you, I was an IOT Flt Cdr when he was DDIOT and Robbie used to run with us on LAT runs. The finishing line was usually DDIOT, a swift cadet and some time later, the flt cdr.

Not sure where he is now, still in the Cranwell area I suspect but I've moved "opp north". Saw him in Waitrose Lincoln not too long ago and had a chat about old times by the fruit and veg; he still looked like a racing snake!

ON

langleybaston
9th Aug 2013, 17:13
My family have occupied OMQs at Nicosia, Guetersloh and JHQ twice. I was a bloody civvy throughout. My boss in Cyprus explained the rituals carefully, so we were prepared for the ordeal, and got the tick in the box.
As I rose unsteadily through the hierarchy over the years, it fell to me in turn to induct the innocent into these strange tribal practices.

Most of my lads and lasses complied successfully, which pleased me greatly because one rotten apple/ noncomformist/ filthy swine can give "us" a bad name on that station and make life hard.

There were three or four horrors of grotty MQs left by Met Men in my time, and I took care to have their cards marked thus:

THIS MAN IS NOT, REPEAT NOT, TO BE CONSIDERED FOR AN OVERSEAS TOUR AGAIN. And I let the fact be known to my other staff and the staish.

The way I see it, if you can't beat them, join them. And if you can't take a joke, bugger off.

Xercules
9th Aug 2013, 18:09
I too recall Bobby Robson's time as DDIOT. When he arrived the "joke" was that we had cadets and super-cadets (ie the DS). The rules were that DS had to dress exactly the same as the cadets especially when on exercise in combat clothing - no aircrew boots or jackets, no Regiment specials etc.

Bobby R arrived on the agenda for his first Director's meeting was an item "Eccentricities of DS Dress". On this item being reached in the meeting he said "There are to be eccentricities of DS dress" and smartly moved on to the next item.

I used to swim (early mornings when he wasn't sheep farming or as he put it cultivating the EU subsidy) and run with him and he was always charming, if hard to keep up with. But in those days I had a chance.

On my next tour, one of my copilots was in the West London Magistrates Court for drink driving (spiked drinks apparently). For various reasons I had to attend at least 3 times as the case was adjourned. On one of these visits I visited Bobby in MoD when he was DPR. On hearing why I was in London he called a minion in to ask "Do we know about this and if not why not?"

As has been said in earlier posts - a top bloke and a joy to work for/with.

NutLoose
9th Aug 2013, 18:21
Thanks Biggus, obviously they had heard of this thread and trembled at the thought of the response they would have got on here.. :}

langleybaston
10th Aug 2013, 16:39
There was a JHQ tale of an army Colonel who allowed his horse into the lounge via the french windows.
There was certainly a Portadown Way OMQ for which my children refused to babysit, regardless of pay and conditions, as they said it was just too disgusting. Fortunately not the RAF Caterer.
The accumulated grease, dirt and nicotine on the kitchen walls amazed even the hardened and cynical marchers-out when the time came.
And, note, JHQ had the advantage of a "hostel" system in which families could stay for a few days prior to march-out.
My finest hour was somewhere else. I became aware that my successor in the house was to be a lifelong sh1t who had caused me grief. I had a lot of leisure pre march-out, so took Brasso and rags into the cellar and polished the many and various copper and brass pipes and fittings in the boiler room. Sure enough, the march-out team a. congratuled LB and
b. told sh1t that they expected cellar to be in identical condition in a year or two.
How to make friends and influence people.

Willard Whyte
10th Aug 2013, 17:45
the english quartermasters aren't the only insane ones.
I once helped my friend rossow move into a married quarter.

in the entire house there were just 3 power points.
get this. not one powerpoint was near the kitchen.

stupid? crazy? or just moronic? couldnt believe it.

On a sliding scale of stupidity I suppose this doesn't quite match the above...

When TV aerial sockets were put in to the rooms of the Os Mess at Lyneham they were put quite close - a metre or so - to a plug socket.

Only problem was the aerial socket was on the other side of the door leading to the corridor than the power socket. I suppose one should be thankful that both sockets were in the actual room.

BEagle
10th Aug 2013, 19:06
After my brief and unsuccesful time on the Buccaneer, I was sent to RAF Biggin Hill for 'Aircrew Reselection'.

Having completed the various interviews, I was told that I could expect a decision in a few weeks time. Having no permanent residence in the UK, I asked to be given something useful to do on the station. So I became deputy to both OC GD and the Families Officer.

Quite simple - and all OC GD's tasks were easily completed. The Families Officer was on leave, so I had to do a few march-outs. Until then, my only experience of MQs had been when I was joe'd to check up on DoE slackness at Valley 3 years earlier, whilst holding before my Hunter refresher course. We checked 4 MQs each in the morning and 4 each in the afternoon, revealing a whole range of work which hadn't been done, of contractors cheating on overtime and other scams... OC Admin threw the book at the DWO shortly afterwards, I gather...

But having no idea what was involved in a march out, I turned up at one place to join the Barrack Warden. "Any work not yet completed?", I asked the lady of the house - who told me about various reported snags which hadn't been fixed. "Make a note please", I advised the BW. Then a quick tour of the place, all looked fine to my ex-Flt Cdt eye and none of the stupid cooker inspections etc. "Thank you - that's all splendid. Hope you enjoy your next posting", I told her.

The BW was incandescent - I'd taken a fraction of a time the Familes' Officer normally took and hadn't been very thorough. But he was more annoyed at having to sort out all the outstanding fixes before the next family arrived.

I did a few more march outs, then moved to other work.

The Fg Off (W) Families Officer then returned from leave and was astonished that all my march outs had been so straightforward - every stain or similar I'd reported as 'fair wear and tear'! I told her that the anal 'white glove' nonsense practised by others was daft - and if she wanted me to do any more march outs, I'd be happy to do so.

Needless to say, I wasn't asked!

Tankertrashnav
11th Aug 2013, 08:41
Never once lived in MQ so I have no tales to tell. However I am amused that the archaic term "marching in/out" is still in use. I always thought it sounded very silly, and had a mental picture of Fg Off and Mrs Snooks and all the little Snooks "fell-in" outside their new MQ, and on an order from the Families Officer marching in to their new home.

TomJoad
11th Aug 2013, 09:38
Never once lived in MQ so I have no tales to tell. However I am amused that the archaic term "marching in/out" is still in use. I always thought it sounded very silly, and had a mental picture of Fg Off and Mrs Snooks and all the little Snooks "fell-in" outside their new MQ, and on an order from the Families Officer marching in to their new home.

That made me laugh, yes the name conjurers up all sort of parade square madness. In reality it is however not 'archaic' but rather sensible - it basically ensures that when you take over your new home it's presented in a clean and tidy fashion with all the important bits working. The civvie approach of taking a bond is the alternative but a rather blunt one.

The stories that you will hear about "white "gloves" are from a bygone age, and the others of the pernicious Families Officer are of course the exception. In contrast the "when I marched in/out of my quarter it was fine" just dosn't make good copy. For me during the entirety of my service that was my experience of the march in/out system.:p

NutLoose
11th Aug 2013, 10:59
I had a lot of leisure pre march-out, so took Brasso and rags into the cellar and polished the many and various copper and brass pipes and fittings in the boiler room.

Pet hate at Brize in the blocks that in the late 80's we were still polishing the brass window latches, that should have died a death with polishing buttons years earlier, however visiting a friends room I noticed they had replaced his with aluminium ones, so a quick visit to Halford and a rattle can of wheel aluminium paint, we all had them.. And no one was any the wiser.

FJJP
11th Aug 2013, 11:26
I spent 20 odd years in FMA. Before I got married, a very friendly Fams Off took me on several march-outs to get a feel for what was required. We went to one AMQ and the first thing that struck us was the aroma pervading the house. Then we discovered that he couldn't be ars*d to use the toilet at night - the wardrobes had to be seen to be believed.

Not only that, there was something strange about the place which we couldn't put our finger on, until we reached out to open a door - only to find that the WAS no door. All the internal doors and a lot of floorboards had been used as firewood! Having to replace all the doors, floorboards and carpets cost a fortune and the family were given extensive treatment by mental health people!

I stopped one of my marchouts when a V young Fams Off told me that my wife was to wait outside as he pulled on his white gloves. I informed this idiot that he could not treat people that way, that my wife was part of MY family and that if he thought he was going to treat me like an initial trainee he was very much mistaken. The real Fams Off apologised profusely and assured me that his holding officer would be properly trained! Incidentally, the MO 2 hours later went without a hitch.

But I could tell you many tales of experience over the years...

Maybe I will..!

Willard Whyte
11th Aug 2013, 17:25
Funny how everyone leaves their quarters in better condition than they found them:=

Well, unlike the state of the place when Mrs WW and I moved in I sure as hell didn't leave mouse sh1t on the kitchen worktop when leaving. Just the sort of hygiene one expects with a 6 month old baby to look after.

So I suggest you shove your sanctimonious attitude the same place as your waging finger smilie - up your jacksie.

ralphmalph
11th Aug 2013, 18:13
Amazing dits on MQ 20 years ago.....

ralphmalph
11th Aug 2013, 18:15
Anyone got any current gen...or chat? Would be nice to know.

Maybe we could create a "mil nostalgia" thread.....

langleybaston
12th Aug 2013, 13:11
Its not what it used to be of course.

Biggus
12th Aug 2013, 13:35
ralphmalph,

Towards the top of this page are details of a march out that took place less than a week ago - is that "current" enough for you!!

TomJoad
12th Aug 2013, 16:56
Well, unlike the state of the place when Mrs WW and I moved in I sure as hell didn't leave mouse sh1t on the kitchen worktop when leaving. Just the sort of hygiene one expects with a 6 month old baby to look after.

So I suggest you shove your sanctimonious attitude the same place as your waging finger smilie - up your jacksie.

You should have reported Mr and Mrs Mouse to the families officer :ok:

Oh, and for you next move get a pair of these and a life princess:=

http://www.theconsortiumcare.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/3/small_image/300x300/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/082551.jpg

Courtney Mil
12th Aug 2013, 17:28
Maybe a bit harsh, Tom. The reason we're required to leave MQs in good order is so that the next occuoants can move into a house in habitable state. If the interests of the next occupant is truly the reason, "they" must then assume some responsibility for maintenance of the property and its habitable state until it is reoccupied.

It's not a good feeling to work hard to ensure everything is perfect when leaving a quater only to have to move into another that is clearly not right. Just saying.

TomJoad
12th Aug 2013, 17:53
Take a look at the totality of my posts on the subject Courtney and you will see that you and I, and indeed Willard, are pushing at the same open door. If my comment was harsh then it was reflecting Willard's rather rude suggestion about what I do with my emoticon- although no idea what a "jacksie" is.:=

Anyway, as for sanctimonious, bit presumptuous of Willard not to consider that the defecating mouse visited the worktop post march-out of the previous occupant; you know, when the house was all quiet and still - the way mice like it. Either way, fault lies with marching in/out officer for not "spotting" so to speak. So this little episode rather enforces the merits of a robust march out system I think.

Whenurhappy
15th Aug 2013, 07:12
Well, our recent march out was pretty painless, yet getting the property to the inspection standard was hard work. The DIO chap didn't look at the garden, or the carpets ( steam cleaned) yet focused on the cobwebs under the eaves - unreachable without an access platform. He also insisted that I captured a large spider in the basement and take it outside!

On arrival at our next SFA, we found it dusty, the toilets and shower needed attention and the windows were smeared and covered in paint spatter from a recent redecoration. I spoke to the housing officer and she sent a cleaner around straight away to rectify these issues. However the garden was/is in a state - overgrown, paths and patio edges long obliterated and the flower beds were more like wildlife refuges! I pointed this out and I was 'reminded' that this was the contractural requirement - of the grounds contractor and not the occupant, who is required to maintain the garden in a much tidier condition!

We also received domestic furniture from the system - light oak stuff, think Homebase, rather than Ikea - except the chest of draws are pathetic! I asked the army unit that administers DAS for another chest and got the usual 'you have your entitlement' answer. It means buying more furniture for the short period that we are back in the UK as the rest of our good items remain in store.


On a related issue - should SP be liable for damages incurred by a MOD contractor? A colleague of mine was delayed by three days when there was a no-show from the MOD removals contractor (and then the trailer brakes seized) thus he couldn't complete the SSFA clean in the remaining half day (it is a huge hiring) before he marched out and his replacement was waiting at the end of the street with his truck! DIO billed him several hundred £ for a clean which he could not physically complete! Fair? As it happens he has sent a copy of the bill to the well-known removals firm for their attention.

BEagle
15th Aug 2013, 07:38
However the garden was/is in a state - overgrown, paths and patio edges long obliterated and the flower beds were more like wildlife refuges!

A colleague in F-4 days had a short-notice posting and didn't manage to sort out his garden before the march-out, so was charged a tidy sum to have it done by a contractor.

Fast forward a few months and he was chatting with a mate who'd moved in to the same MQ a few days after my colleague had moved out. "The place was nice and clean, mate - but you might have cut the grass and sorted out the garden! It took me a day or so to tidy it up!"...:hmm:

So where did the money go.... :( ???

Pete268
17th Aug 2013, 05:22
I remember back in the early 1990's the ‘new’ OC of the Cyprus Joint Service Health Unit (an Army WO1 Environmental Health Tech) condemning his newly allocated MQ on march in. Something to do with an ant infestation in the kitchen and other lurking nasties in the bathroom.

Cue an argument between said OC JSHU and the Akrotiri Families Officer who pointed out that almost every quarter had ant infestations (What an admission!). OC JSHU wouldn’t budge though and for good measure condemned the adjoining MQ where I lived.

Eventually OC JSHU was allocated one of the brand new MQ’s that had just being built at Akrotiri, whilst we were given a tub of ant powder! The quarter the OC JSHU condemned was allocated to an army Sgt the following week still with its ant infestation and other assorted ‘nasties!.