Thinking about training in South Africa.

[Ludford]

I'm a British national thinking about learning to fly in South Africa after learning how expensive things are in Britain to learn.

I've been quoted around £20,000 - 25,000 ($30,000 - $37,000) from South African schools for a CPL+IR+ME which seems to me like a very good deal! I've been quoted £50,000 for the same in Britain

I do have a few questions for people with experience of the industry though.

1. Is a Frozen ATPL just additional ground school after a CPL+IR+ME?

2. Does it matter where you obtain your licence from? Are employers going to turn their nose up at South African licences?

3. A lot of jobs I've seen need licences from the country they are based in, is it easy to get a licence for that country if you have a licence from another country?

4. How do you go about getting your first job? Obviously I have no delusions of flying some big airliner straight after this, I'd just like to fly some small prop planes professionally single engine or multi. I don't mind where I fly in the world. But a lot of jobs are wanting 2000 hours minimum on the SPECIFIC plane you will be flying. And I'll have like 300? 350? On a Beachcraft Baron?

Do you think I could find a job in developing countries in Africa, Asia or Latin America? I don't mind low pay I just want to fly http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Thanks for any replies.

[PigeonVoyageur]

First some clarifications. South African schools issue an ICAO licence. This licence can either be endorsed by the Civil Aviation of most African countries and a lot of Asian countries (i.e. they just accept it as is), or can be converted to the national licence for a small administrative fee. I am not conversant with Latin America, so I won't comment on that part of the world. By endorsement or conversion, you will be allowed to fly aircraft registered in these countries. To fly aircraft registered in USA (even if they are based in Africa or anywhere else), you'll need to have a FAA licence, and to fly aircraft registered in Europe (even if they are based anywhere else in the world), you'll need to have a EASA licence.

To convert an ICAO licence to an EASA one, you will need to re-sit your CPL and ME/IR skill tests with a minimum of hours flying at a European flight school. Depending on where you do this in Europe, it can cost you from £4,000 to £8,000 for the conversion - Poland, Lituania or the Eastern European countries will cost less. These are just ballpark figures, I haven't been to each school's site to find out the exact amount. Plus get your EASA Class 1 medical.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, ATPL is just ground school. Even if you do your ATPL courses in S.Africa, you will have to re-sit all 14 modules for conversion to EASA - count another £2,000 approximately and this depends if you want to do it by distance-learning or full-time classroom.

2. Yes, because as mentionned above, with your ICAO licence, you will not be able to fly American or European registered aircrafts. No it should not be an issue if you are going to fly in most of Africa or Asia where an ICAO licence is accepted. But then again, it depends on the employers.

3. I think that this is answered in my introduction.

4. Wherever you are in the world, you'll have a tough time to land this first job. 10-20 years ago, it would have been easier, but now with all the flight schools of most African and Asian countries offering flight courses, there are a lot of national CPL holders looking for jobs. I'll point you to a few Pprune threads where this is discussed at length:

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/517957-work-africa-sa-cpl-vs-faa.html

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/433420-maun-botswana-essential-guide.html

http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/446586-jobs-africa-2011-onwards-part-3-a.html

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/517718-rise-unemployed-pilots-india.html

If you go through the African, South East Asian and Latin American forums, you'll have a pretty good idea. It's pretty hard, but not impossible. You must be at the right place at the right time and have the working visa to clinch this first job in a far-away country with low hours.

Hope my little contribution is pointing you in some direction, and I wish you to succeed in your endeavour.

[Ludford]

Thanks for all the information. Those prices to convert licences sound quite expensive but the initial saving I am making by training in South East Africa will be worth it.

I also think I will be able to get a job easier in South Asia or Africa. So wont need an FAA or EASA right away as I doubt anyone in Europe or America would look at me right out of flight school.

Sounds like a real adventure too, I'd love to fly cargo or something in small planes in Africa or South East Asia.

[booze]

Hi Ludford,

I did it in quiet the same way as you are planning to do.

Went to SA from Europe. Did all my training and even managed to get a work permit as well. After qualifying, flew some SEP/MEP for a local charter company for a year and a half before moving onto 19 seater turboprops. Flew all over Africa for another 4-5 years, earning some good money and doing my JAA conversion in the UK in the meanwhile. Finally landed in a job back at home, flying a large turboprop for a local cargo company.

Happy as pig in :mad:: riding my bike to work every day and sleeping at home every night (dawn...).

I'd suggest you to go for it! Also read the Maun... and Windhoek... threads in African Aviation, here on Pprune.

[Ludford]

What kind of flying is it in Botswana? The planes seem a little small for passengers.

Also the school I am looking at is called Madiba Bay. Anyone know anything about it?

[alphalima]

Look into 43 Air school in Port Alfred, South Africa.
They have an excellent reputation all over and you're bound to meet an ex student all over the world.

[Ludford]

They look good. A LOT more expensive though.

[B200Drvr]

Cheap is often the downfall!!

If you are going to train in SA then go to 43.

If not, then look at going to the USA. The Aviator in Ft Pierce. Florida You can do a pro course and leave there with 1600+ hours in 2 years, and get paid. They have an EASA affiliation, so you can combine a lot of your training. Once you leave with you 1600+ hours and an FAA ATP, EASA FATPL as well as CFMEII, you will stand a better chance of getting a job in Botswana or Namibia.
I have never used my RSA license outside of SA, I've used my FAA ATP. So if you have that and an EASA license that you did at the same time, you are ahead of the game.

[PigeonVoyageur]

Make sure that this school - The Aviator - has the necessary EASA approval IF you are thinking of also wanting to have an EASA certification.

Just a little warning since another school in USA - Euro American School - has had its EASA certification suspended recently.

http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/515345-euro-american-school-aviation-suspended.html

[Stuckbetweenworlds]

First some clarifications. South African schools issue an ICAO licence. This licence can either be endorsed by the Civil Aviation of most African countries and a lot of Asian countries (i.e. they just accept it as is), or can be converted to the national licence for a small administrative fee. .

Hi, can you tell me how exactly I can convert an FAA license to a national license. Do I need a current FAA medical to do this?

I am very new to wanting to fly in Africa and have a few questions.
What authority do pilots in east or west Africa fly on CAA?