How many is too many

[Mick.B]

Had 11 aircraft in the circuit area in YBLT a couple of days ago. Got me thinking how much more traffic would warrant a unicom/ tower. It was quite scary from the ground not to mention the amount of chat. This is quite alot for here but not unusual for 6 or 7 at once. Also concerning the international students, the communication factors throws in another curve ball.

[Shagpile]

11 is too many!

[VH-XXX]

11 is certainly up at the higher end of the scale!

Moorabbin gets that many occasionally but across contra circuits. I've seen 10 on final across the two runways at Moorabbin but the only time I've see more in the circuit at once was at Narromine for Natfly.

I'd say Oshkosh or similar would get busier but that would be better as they would either all be coming or going versus doing circuits.

There should be a line drawn in theory somewhere, but hard to know where exactly.

[RENURPP]

Careful what you wish for, I see two aircraft in the CTR at my home base every now and then. :E.

[717tech]

I don't remember the number, but there was a limit to how many aircraft could be flying night circuits at Parafield. There would be a que of aircraft waiting for their turn.

It wasn't uncommon on a Sunday to have around 10 or so aircraft in the circuit using multiple runways at my old stomping ground.

[Arm out the window]

Any more than about 6 is getting risky in my view.

The chances of someone extending downwind, coming in on a long final and then having someone else turning a normal base and descending on top of them is the thing which worries me most.

[T28D]

Depends on the type of formation going into the pitch and break.

[VH-XXX]

The chances of someone extending downwind, coming in on a long final and then having someone else turning a normal base and descending on top of them is the thing which worries me most.

That would have to be the most common occurence of poor circuit etiquette based on my experience, even without the guy coming in on the long final :rolleyes:

[outnabout]

Somewhere I have a memory that Jandakot & Parafield only allow 7 in a circuit at night.. that's a few years ago, so not sure what it is now.

[Mick.B]

Weve had a couple of close calls in the past 2 years. Unfortunatly I think it is a real possibility there is going to be a prang in the not too distant future unless something is looked at. There were numerours go arounds, also there was two incidents of guys cutting in on base due to extended downwind legs.

[Shagpile]

That would have to be the most common occurrence of poor circuit etiquette based on my experience, even without the guy coming in on the long final

We call them "dirty downwind extenders".

As I tell my students, nobody ever complains if you turn (base) early!

And don't fly bloody 747 circuits in light aircraft. Keep it tight - you'll get 12 circuits done in an hour instead of 7.

[Sunfish]

Ymmb limit is eight, and it has a tower.

[VH-XXX]

Is that per runway Sunny or for both? Is that their night limit too or is it less than that? (Probably answered my own question there as only one runway is in use at night)

They are more than capable of handling more than 4 per runway and I've seen it many times there.

[jas24zzk]

Depends on your view of 'in the circuit area'

11 doing circuits is certainly over the top. But if 8 of those are a group that have arrived and are all planning full stops, it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[evilducky]

I thought ymmb put a limit of 6 in the pattern of any one runway following that midair that killed a student a few years back. Perhaps it was just a recommendation from the atsb that got ignored?

Edit: after some reading I think this might have just been an interim measure until class D happened.

[dubbleyew eight]

fifteen other aircraft in a circuit didnt worry me too much.
thank god we dont have a tower.

[garrya100]

It's not just the numbers, it's also the mix of types in the circuit. Last week at YBTH we had gliders, Jabiru's, PA28's, B76's, C150's, C172's an L39 and a SF340 in the circuit. Keeps you on your toes.

No wonder I have a sore neck.....

[Wally Mk2]

God that's all too dangerous, stay alert out there guys, an accident waiting to happen by the looks of things.


Wmk2

[dubbleyew eight]

load of bollocks wally.
what happens as the number of aircraft increase is that the circuit expands out a little and guys fly head to tail more.
you NEVER fly closer to the runway than the guy in front or you will be through his door on the next turn.
it turns out to be really bloody simple and safe as houses.

P.S I wouldnt try this at a towered airstrip because you are totally limited by the controller.

[autoflight]

I recall a daytime limit of 6 training aircraft in the circuit at Point Cook in 1963 and that was with a tower.

[TBM-Legend]

Williamtown 1970's..

Macchis etc 1000' Sabres 1200' Mirages 1500' [Winjeels etc 500']

Not unusual to have 12 or so in the circuit..

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

I recall being one of at least three on final approach to each of three parallel runways at Archerfield back in the 1970. I was in a PA32 trying hard to not climb up the arse of a C150 ahead of me for 10L when I was moved over to 10C by the tower. On my right was a Baron doing circuits on 10R.

Don't remember how many aircraft were in the circuit at the time, but it would have been quite a few.

Dr :8

[stoneage]

11 is too many. How large did the circuit become? Ardmore has a Unicom and last time I was there we had around 8. That was pushing it.