Hand luggage in an emergency evacuation.

[boguing]

How about changing the safety briefing to something the passengers will find hard to ignore?

With respect to evacuation, 'those of you wanting to take hand-held luggage, stay seated until one of us calls for you. Should you ignore this, and arrive at an emergency exit, we will allocate you a comfortable seat until all of those without luggage have stayed alive'.

[SpringHeeledJack]

You make a good point, I've often wondered what people (or myself) might grab if ever unfortunate enough to be in an emergency evacuation of an aircraft. Would I take the laptop/pad in my hands/seat pocket with me if it contained very important/sentimental files/photos etc, or would I be only concentrated on saving my skin ? It might depend on the type of emergency, but I wonder if people have been seen trying to get stuff out of the overhead lockers before deplaning down the slide ?



SHJ

[Burnie5204]

I'm sure that if people knew where their hold luggage was they'd try grabbing that after evacuation too.

[SpringHeeledJack]

San Francisco plane crash: photos taken by passengers moments after disaster - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/10170617/San-Francisco-plane-crash-photos-taken-by-passengers-moments-after-disaster.html?frame=2613427)

Looks like the passengers on the latest crash decided to take handbags and hand luggage with them.....:hmm:



SHJ

[Torque Tonight]

The message is 'the survival chances of my baggage takes priority over the survival chances of all the people behind me'. I personally feel that all pax who evacuate with their luggage should have it confiscated and crushed or incinerated immediately.

[Phileas Fogg]

Try telling these idiots to remain with their seat belts fastened until the aircraft has arrived on stand and the illuminated sign switched off, try telling these idiots not to switch on their mobile phones until inside the terminal, try telling them anything, who actually thinks that they are going to listen?

[Ms Spurtle]

They're not.
All you can do is tell them not to do it, and then accept that lots of them will anyway.

You'll never solve this one. It will just always happen.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

They are when I stop taxying wherever we are and tell them that I ain't moving my aircraft until they do as they're told.

[RealFish]

People who, in an emergency, endanger the lives of others by using critical seconds to locate and exit with their hand luggage, are defying instructions given on behalf of the commander.

They should, in my opinion, face prosecution, particularly if it can be shown others suffered unnecessary injury or perished as a consequence of their selfishness.

[jackieofalltrades]

You'll never solve this one. It will just always happen.

Have cabin crew make a note of the offenders standing up whilst taxiing, turning on their phones before told they may do so etc, and have some police officers at the terminal waiting for them. The fear of being arrested would soon stop most folk, and those that don't will be sat in a police cell rather than endangering their next flight.

[con-pilot]

If I am ever in an accident on an airliner and someone between me and the exit stops to get a bag or anything else, I will do one of two things, go over them after I have shoved them onto the floor or through them.

I'm big enough to do it, trust me.

[Mike Tee]

I was on a Ryanair flight a couple of years ago (Liverpool / Nimes). Three guys across the isle to me where talking continously during the pre-takeoff safety briefing. The young cabin steward doing the briefing stopped, "please may I have the full and undivided attention of all passengers including those who have heard it all before, until I do this aircraft will be going nowhere". Que sheepish looks from the ignorant offenders and applause from everyone else. Well done Ryanair.

[llondel]

I wouldn't stop to collect anything, but I'd probably take whatever I had on/around my seat, which would amount to a small bag containing my book and documents and possibly camera. I suspect women would have small handbags with them too, especially if that's where they've got their passports and other documents.

As with others, if I was trying to get out in a hurry and someone in front decided to stop and extract something from a locker, I'd be likely to push them to one side so everyone else could get past.

While it's not a good idea, I can see that if you're stood in the aisle waiting in a stationary queue, there would be time to get a bag from an overhead bin, but then you'd be more likely to be slower moving and more likely to damage the slide with something large. It would be interesting to see where the passengers with such luggage were seated, although there's one picture I've seen of the Asiana crash where a woman with a large bag has space in front of her and a lot of people behind her which suggests she held them all up.

[opnot]

llondel
if you are evacuating a aircraft for what ever reason I dont think you would be in a stationary queue.

[llondel]

Probably not if there was visible fire, that tends to encourage even the tardy. In the Asiana case, I wonder how much of that cabin baggage was removed from the bins before the order to evacuate was given, now we've seen reports that the order was delayed?

As I said elsewhere, if someone is carrying some\thing (that isn't liable to damage the slide and is not otherwise slowing down the process) then it's faster to let them keep it than argue.

[JustOccurred2Me]

Maybe there are experts in the field who'd know about such things, but I feel there is a possibility that passengers grabbing their belongings is just another manifestation of the "familiar actions after a traumatic event" syndrome. It happens on a lot of occasions - I remember a vivid image after one of the towers collapsed on 9/11 with a guy walking out of the debris, completely caked in dust, yet still carrying his briefcase and newspaper.

Human behaviour in extreme circumstances is unpredictable - examples such as people heading for a more distant emergency exit instead of the closest, or remaining seated despite calls to evacuate, are not unheard of. Perhaps using this accident as a way of investigating the issue would help in future evacuations.

[jackieofalltrades]

Whenever I fly I will wear cargo trousers or shorts so that I can keep my phone and passport on me at all times. That way, should I ever be in an emergency evacuation, I have on my person the important things that I will need and aren't immediately replaceable.

[llondel]

Some sort of bag/purse that clips on a belt may be better, it will make life easier at the security circus if you can just unclip it and put it through the x-ray machine instead of digging frantically in all the pockets to find everything that might otherwise get you a free grope after the metal detector. Also faster the other side when reassembling yourself.

[FlyboyUK]

I recall hearing that most of the people who died in the British Airtours 737 fire at MAN were those who were trying to get their luggage out the lockers.

[mixture]

Some sort of bag/purse that clips on a belt may be better, it will make life easier at the security circus if you can just unclip it and put it through the x-ray machine instead of digging frantically in all the pockets to find everything that might otherwise get you a free grope after the metal detector. Also faster the other side when reassembling yourself.

Instead of looking like an American tourist waddling around with a fanny pack / bum bag, how about you just get yourself organised before you get anywhere near security.

Before I leave home on travels, I've only got two things in my pockets ... phone in one, wallet in another. That's it. No coins, no dirty tissues.

After checkin and boarding pass validation, boarding pass and passport go into the wallet. Then at security its simple.... wallet out, phone out... laptop prepared out (bag left unzipped) whilst waiting in the security queue .... that's it. Then at the point of Xray, its two seconds to dump it and less than 5 seconds to collect the three items, dump the laptop in the bag, zip it up and walk off.

[CrashManII]

I was on SWA 345 last year when the front landing gear collapsed into the nose of the airplane. Once the plane was stationary and it was obvious we weren't moving, it was several minutes before we were allowed to exit the plane. During that time, we had ample opportunity to gather our thoughts, prayers--and for many, our small bags or a briefcase.

I don't remember anyone trying to take larger luggage out of the overheads, but there was ample time to grab a briefcase from the overhead as we were just standing there, (and there was the smell of smoke in the air.)

With regards to the poster commenting on "I'll just run someone over, I'm a big guy." Was on another flight several years ago where a football sized hole blew into the top of the airplane, immediate decompression and the air bags dropped. Efficient descent to 11,000 feet, (from 35k), and then another 20-25 minute flight to an alternate airport. During those 20-25 minutes, the flight attendant spoke to each of us sitting in an exit row---with directions I'd never seen nor heard before. In case of an emergency exit, at the FA's command, the person sitting behind me was designated to open the door and confirmed that she could handle a 40lb. door. The rest of us were told to turn inward toward the aisle and push back against anyone trying to rush the door---basically impeding her ability to get the door out of the way. In effect, we were playing offensive lineman until the door was open.

Sidenote--after we landed the lady designated to open the door, (and the only female in the two rows), said that we might have wondered about her ability to take the door out. She said she worked in a bakery and handled 50lb. sacks of flour all day. (Not knowing this, I was going to give her one shot at it and then move her out of the way if the crap really hit the fan.)

[SpringHeeledJack]

Thanks for the interesting post, but really 2 crash experiences ? That's enough for anyone! By chance I was watching 'Fearless' the movie with Jeff Bridges last night, loosely based on the Sioux City crash, even if only a film thought provoking.


SHJ

[parabellum]

How about the overhead bins being electronically locked at start of taxi, unlocked with seat belt signs 'off', back on when seat belt sign 'on' and remaining locked until released by a crew member from one of several positions? (possibly manual over ride, known only to crew).

[Lord Spandex Masher]

When you crash with the seatbelt signs off?

[oldbalboy]

nice idea about electronically locking the bins but as soon as a/c is shut down for an evacuation all electrical power goes so they would unlock!

[Dubaian]

Given that a great majority of PAX will ignore Safety Briefings and PA announcements (even assuming they understand the languages they're given in - we really are 'World Travellers' these days) isn't it time to up-date the content? Do we really need all that life-jacket stuff? Wouldn't it be more relevant to focus on more likely emergencies and what can realistically be done to cope more effectively with them?

What is the point of 'seat belts loosely fastened except when moving around the aircraft' when airlines are promoting cocktail bars, showers and the like and the 'Elf & Safety' videos encourage you to walk around to stay thrombosis free.

Me - I do keep the belt fastened and minimise my time out of seat. I've seen what clear-air turbulence can do.

But I do think the whole business of safety briefings and PA announcements needs dragging into the 21st Century. Why tell PAX what the local time and weather are if they are both clearly wrong? My watch is reliable. Mobile phones tell the time. I can see if it's raining. Wake up, airlines, and stop regurgitating what was 'exciting' in the dim and distant. Give me useful, relevant, accurate stuff - or shut up. Please
Rant over .....

[parabellum]

When you crash with the seatbelt signs off?


Hardly likely to be concerned with the contents of the overhead lockers in those circumstances, are you?


but as soon as a/c is shut down for an evacuation all electrical power goes so they would unlock!


If we can land people on the moon I'm sure the boffins can design around that situation, a time lock with it's own accumulator that retains an electrical charge sufficient to actuate the locks twenty minutes after all power is lost and only operates then and not when other sources of power are still available?

[KBPsen]

Update the terms and conditions with a section stating that if a passenger fails to pay attention to safety demonstrations and/or comply with safety instructions the airline is no longer responsible for the passenger and that any death, injuries or costs resulting from an incident or accident is the responsibility of the passenger.

There are far too many people being far to keen to claim their "rights" while playing ignorant or helpless when it comes to their responsibilities.

[Hotel Tango]

Update the terms and conditions with.....

How many pax even bother to read the T & Cs?

[KBPsen]

That is irrelevant. There is ample opportunity to to become acquainted with the terms and conditions of the product before purchasing and using it. That people choose to not fully understand what product they are buying is their problem.

Ignorance is a choice.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Hardly likely to be concerned with the contents of the overhead lockers in those circumstances, are you?

Err, well I guess this thread wouldn't exist if that was the case.

[parabellum]

Err, well I guess this thread wouldn't exist if that was the case.


A crash, (your word), with the seat belt sign off suggests CFIT or similar to me, usually but not always, 100% fatal.

[oldpax]

Airlines themselves are to blame a lot for letting pax on with way to much hand luggage ,if they stuck to a size and weight as the RAF did perhaps there would not be such a rush to retrieve it.I see that some places have a metal bin for hand luggage to be gauged ,if it don't fit its too big but rarely see it used!!I wear a cotton waistcoat type with four pockets which holds all I need apart from a good paperback! I to would assist people who were blocking my exit in an emergency to get out of my way ,if they were attempting to retrieve hand luggage.
I am lucky in that in 55 years of flying I have never seen an emergency ,only in the RAF!!!

[Lord Spandex Masher]

A crash, (your word), with the seat belt sign off suggests CFIT or similar to me, usually but not always, 100% fatal.

Crash can mean many non CFIT things. But that notwithstanding not always (your words) fatal.

Or someone just forgets to turn them on:rolleyes: