20k Bond for an MEP Class type.

[portsharbourflyer]

Wasn't successful in getting the job, I wouldn't have accepted anyway.

But couldn't believe that an air taxi / survey operator would bond to the amount of 20K over two years for an OPC and line training for a MEP class aircraft.

I would consider that bond excessive for an King Air let alone something in the MEP class.


Just wondering what others though about that? To add they would expect you to work on a self employed basis (contradiction, a training bond would infer permanent employment, so the bond nullifies your self employed status).

Ryanair style employment in GA.

[RTN11]

How was the bond offered? You pay it upfront and they pay it back over two years, or you pay nothing but are contracted to have to pay pro rata of £20k if you leave within two years?

[portsharbourflyer]

Nothing up front, linearly decreasing over two years.
But also remember you are not salaried on this deal, flight pay only on a self employed basis.

The amount was variable could also be increased/decreased depending on the hours required to get through the line training; but 20k quoted as the typical amount.

For an MEP type I would say 5 to 7k may be a reasonable amount, but bonding to the value of a JAR25 rating?

[Wodka]

Jokers. Delusions of grandeur perhaps?

Laughable.

[mad_jock]

nope they are basically doing it because they can and people will accept it.

[WX Man]

Get your bargepole out.... and name and shame the operator!

5-7K is ridiculous for an MEP. I was recently quoted £6000 to renew my King Air B350 rating, including examiner fees, a/c hire (I was doing it on the a/c) and landing and approach fees.

20K would be acceptable if it the currency is Paraguay Guaranis, Turkish Lire or Scottish Pounds post-independance.

Sad thing is that there is going to be some mug that actually accepts that.

[mad_jock]

there will be more than one mug. In fact several hundred mugs.

And they will be quite happy to walk away from the bond and pay it after 6 months if they get an offer on a multi crew machine.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Jeez if it's a battered old Seneca or Aztec like most of the MEP's still flying in Britain, it's probably not worth much more than £20K to buy the bloody thing outright :yuk:

[magicmick]

I’ll lay you any money (sterling not Scottish pounds) that PHF has stacks of PMs asking them who the operator is, this information would of course only be used to inform the sender which operator they should avoid and never approach for employment!!!!!!!

[mad_jock]

It will be one of the survey lot.

To be honest most wannabies won't be able to apply for it due to insurance requirements on MEP hours.

Even with doing my CPL and IR in a FNPT I I ended up with I think 49 MEP mostly dual and no PIC.

Folk were wanting 100 hours PIC MEP back in the day before the EASA regulations for twin jobs.

Now they won't touch you until you until you have over 750 and have managed to fiddle some IFR time and some proper PIC time on a twin, SPIC and PICUS doesn't count.

I suspect MEP pilots wages will be going up in the not to distant future because there is no real way for wannabies to get qualified to fly them.

[LastMinuteChanges]

Name and shame would be the best policy, as others can avoid by a large margin in the future, £20K is pretty outrageous.

[portsharbourflyer]

Ok then it is D.E.A,

The companies defence of this value of bond is the "specialist" training required for flying survey and surveillance work.

The other little gotcha was if you pass the first stage of selection you would need to pay £500 for the flight assessment.

I never found out what the actual pay rates or what they were based on (daily rate, or per flight hour), but you would work on a self employed basis.

Madjock, yes there was a total hours and IFR hours requirement, however the multi time requirement was quite low as they felt sufficient multi time could be acquired during line training and positioning flights to meet the regulatory or insurance minimums.

Magicmick, no I haven't received any PMs on this.

It is interesting to note the demographic that has replied to this thread, you have all tended to more experienced pilot members. This also had attracted much less attention than a Ryanair or P2Fly thread; an indication of where the interests of most wannabes is placed. Maybe this should have gone to the Biz jet forum.

[Happy Wanderer]

£20k bond for an OPC and line training on a....DA42??? Joke :mad:

May be wrong, but pretty sure pay rates with DEA are (or were) in the region of £25 ph.

[magicmick]

Hi PHF

Good job I didn’t lay any money on how many PMs you got!!!!!

If I remember correctly DEA want close (within 10%) 700hrs total time with a preference for instructor experience and ex military, indeed most of their senior people seem to be ex mil.

They’ve certainly changed their policies lately, they were recruiting a couple years back and ‘only’ wanted the new hires to pay half their line training fees (about £5k I think) up front and then agree to a bond for the other half. I assume that they’ve had bad experiences with pilots scarpering off soon after completing their training hence the large bond. I suppose under this deal if you last out the 2 years then you’ve paid nothing at all for training.

Perhaps if they were to offer a better salary and full time employment they might see better pilot retention and won’t need to impose such a hefty bond or maybe the bond is just too much of a nice little earner if someone doesn’t last out the 2 years.

Good luck to anyone that chooses to apply.

[mad_jock]

I can understand thier point of view to be honest but don't agree with the method.

Unfortunately it doesn't matter how big the bond if the pilot has a sniff of a jet they will be gone. You could make the salary the same as a jet and they would still leave.

The training required for survey work is quite a bit more than A to B line flying and also its single crew.

There are pilots out there that have no intention and to be honest arn't suited to airline flying which they know deep down. To them the bond won't matter at all and they will have found the right pilot for the job. As long as you don't have to hand any cash over it will be fine. They will continue until someone pulls a bankrupt number on them then it will be cash up front.

Loosing a trained pilot half way through the season will cost them way more than the bond to sort out.

[LastMinuteChanges]

I was under the impression that DEA flew multi-crew for survey work, I may be wrong but that is what I have been told.

[mad_jock]

They may have two pilots in the machine but I very much doudt they will have got the relevant equipment fit and permissions for multicrew time be able to be logged.

If they don't have multicrew approval for a SPA then only the PIC can log anything on a normal flight.

Again for someone that has no intention of going airline this won't be a problem but if you looking to build hours to then move on it won't be much use. And if you decide to log co-pilot or PICUS or some such rubbish as the second pilot expect to have serious problems with your log book later on in life.

[cgwhitemonk11]

Thats completely mental. My company were recently bending over backwards trying to find an Islander pilot and literally could not find one to suit the position. No bond or anything. They brought back in one of their older guys to fill the void until end of the season but still I didn't think it would be that hard to find someone. I didn't even get bonded for my DHC6 rating when I joined.

Then again if your bonded as far as I am aware they need to provide a full time contract and all the 'luxury's' that come with it which may prove more expensive in the long term.

As someone mentioned above, if you have the hours to fly SPA multi-engine IFR you generally have enough experience not to be inclined to accept that sort of deal.

[mad_jock]

Not surprised you couldn't find anyone.

Anyone with the hours will either already have a job or they will be out by three years and need to redo the rating. And of course that will need to be done through an ATO and won't count as the LPC.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have to get you 50 plus hours PIC time on the twin. Which of course won't be proper PIC time as the normal Pilot will be sitting next to you anyway. Even with thousands of hours PIC time on a TP I would have to do the same.

300 quid an hour for 50 hours that's you at 15k already in training.

So apart from current MEP instructors the supply of MEP SPA has virtually come to a stop. It will be the same for MEP instructors as well. give it 5-10 years and there will be a real shortage. There are quite a few that were colour blind and day only with the EASA changes requiring colour safe for CPL that's them out the game as well.

[Descending]

The £500 for round 2 selection is correct, I was told about this after being invited for interview. Told them to jog on.

6 months later I'm flying ME turboprop SPA. Bond for my TR is 5k nothing upfront!

[portsharbourflyer]

Descending, if that fact is correct as verified by you is there any reason why any of my other facts would be incorrect.


As you will also find the 20 k bond over two years is also factually correct.

Heard first hand at interview.


Dinoorin,


If my figures are out of the ball park, please tell me what you think they actually are?

Certainly a few years back they didn't have such a high bond, but for the recent intake (selections held in July 2013) the terms and conditions are as I have explained.


I don't care that I didn't meet the standard because I couldn't accept the terms and conditions. Relocating three hours north of my current location, agreeing to work on a self employed basis and signing up to what is an excessive bond for an MEP.