BBMF Spitfire visit Laarbruch 1979/80

[Ignore the HUD]

Does any else recall a visit by the BBMF Spitfire to Laarbruch probably late 1979 or 1980? Not certain what the purpose of the visit was but certain my memory isn't playing tricks with me.
any info greatly appreciated.

[NutLoose]

I remember I-Spit visiting 17 Sqn Jags at Bruggen a little later as it was an ex 17 aircraft, but i think that was a little later, i definitely remember seeing the Lanc overfly Bruggen heading that way but again a bit later, I remember because i commented to a friend that it would have a few Germans diving into the cellars...

[ExAscoteer]

I remember I-Spit visiting 17 Sqn Jags at Bruggen a little later as it was an ex 17 aircraft, but i think that was a little later

It was later, it was the summer of 1983. I was holding on 17(F) at the time and have photo's of me sitting in it - a MkVIII Spit.

At the time it was owned Franco Actis (ex- Ormond Haydon-Baillie) and was flown by Paul Day.

[Cornerstone958]

I recall a Spitfire doing a few loops and buzzing the RAF(H) Wegberg:bored: about that time I recall being in the Staff Car Park at about 1700. My boss at the time the chief Gas Passer told me that he had arranged it. They were all outside the OM Wiestiener (sp)
in hand!
CS:D

[Dominator2]

I was staff on 228 OCU when a certain Major Day asked me how high I thought one could fly safely (and legally) without oxygen. I gave him the standard AMTC answer and then asked why the question. He told me that he had been asked to fly an Italian owned Spitfire from Italy, over the Alps to a 17 Sqn open day in RAFG.
We discussed various routes but due to fuel/time a straight line was preferable.
So, an RAF officer was to fly a civilian Italian owned Spitfire from Italy, over Switzerland to and RAF base within the FRG, and spending some time above 10k ft without oxygen.
In 1980 the lack of oxygen was the least worry. The possible upset from diplomatic areas was of greater concern.
The Major has a number of stories concerning the flying of that particular Spit but I will let him tell them if he so wishes.

[Wander00]

When I lived in Little Snoring in the mid 80s our "day" was often brightened by the low level passing of a Spitfire, flown by "The Major"

[Mandator]

At Bruggen in 79/80 I remember Terry Newman night stopping in a Spit (P7?) before heading off on a Saturday morning for a display at Auf dem Dumpel (or something like that). Perhaps he routed back to the UK through Laarbruch?

Somewhere I have a photo and a date.

[95i]

P7350/SH-D Spitfire IIA BoBMF,RAF

Scramble (http://www.scramblemagazine.nl/?option=com_showreports&view=article&ct=DE&id=2112)

Scramble says it was on 25 Aug 1982, but they are wrong.
It was on 25 Sept 1982 celebrating the 70th anniversary of No 2 Squadron.

Laarbruch Timeline (http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/entry/49700/Royal-Air-Force-Laarbruch/#vars!panel=479342!)

[BBadanov]

I remember too the BBMF Lanc visiting Laarbruch about 1982.
I think it was for the naming of a XV Sqn Bucc as 'MacRobertson's Reply'.
XV kept this tradition on Tornados also at Lossie, I believe.

[95i]

On 25 Sept 82 there were three aircraft belonging to the memorial flight:
PZ865 Hurricane II BoBMF,RAF
PA474/AJ-G Lancaster I BoBMF,RAF
P7350/SH-D Spitfire IIA BoBMF,RAF

and two further vintage a/c
XH304 Vampire T11 Vintage Pair,RAF
WF791 Meteor T7 Vintage Pair,RAF

[95i]

Although XV Sqn was at Laarbruch the event you're writing of, happened at RAF Mildenhall.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/95iwarzukurz/1982_04_MacRoberts-Reply_zps35bd37e3.jpg

[95i]

Sorry about the quality.
Just to give an impression:
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/95iwarzukurz/wu_1982_09_30_Flugtag_zpsd93bac0c.jpg

[BBadanov]

95i: Although XV Sqn was at Laarbruch the event you're writing of, happened at RAF Mildenhall.

Not exactly true 95i. Checked my logbook. We took Buccs and a Hunter (the other Bucc was XW533) from Laarbruch to Mildenhall on 23 Apr 82, and back on 26 Apr 82.

We did have a ceremony there at Mildenhall and a church service with WWII vets from XV and 622 Sqns (622 had been formed from 'C' Flt of XV). Your pic shows S/L Peter Boggis unveiling the MacRobertson's crest, and the chap in the uniform was OC XV in 1982, W/C Eddie Cox.

However - to return to the continuity of this thread - we had previously had a ceremony at Laarbruch, with the BBMF Lanc. So I guess that was early 1982, or possibly late 1981.

[95i]

Thanks for looking up your logbook.
And for the details about "my" picture.

It helps to complete my Timeline (http://online.3dpageflip.com/qqsr/duvn/).

Do you know when exactly the previous visit of the Lancaster took place?

[Scottso]

From a Logbook check. The BBMF Lanc flew direct from Coningsby to Laaarbruch on 24Sep82 for an 11(F) Sqn event. The aircraft flew, displayed, at Laarbruch and Wildenrath on 25Sep prior to returning from Laarbruch to Coningsby via Manston on 26Sep82.

That was the final series of flights for the Lanc that year. Out of interest the Flight Engineer was MEng Derek Butcher who had joined the RAF in 1942 and been shot down in a Lanc over Abeville in August 1944. He was taken prisoner and escaped twice, the second time living with a family in Brussels until the city was liberated by Canadian and British Forces. I believe this was his first revisit to Germany in a Lanc since the war so there was time to look out of the windows and enjoy the scenery and reminisce.

A story from the Laarbruch transit - The Lanc was normally pretty pristine and seldom leaked oil. Somewhere en route the No 3 engine developed a small oil leak and I pointed this out to Derek. He took one quick look and said something quietly along the lines of. 'OK, I see it and will tell you before you need to worry!!' Nicely put - and me well in my place but even more respectful when I considered his background. I think this may have been Derek's last outing with the Flight.

The co-pilot was Bill Houldsworth; he joined the RAF in 1943 as a WOpAG flying Ansons, Whitleys, Wellingtons, Stirlings, Halifaxes and Lancasters before reroling to pilot in 1951. He subsequently flew Lancasters, Neptunes, Hastings and Shackletons (MR and AEW).

Bill flew on Operation Manna, dropping food supplies to the Dutch in May 1945; his final flight in the RAF was on the 1985 (40th) anniversary of Operation Manna when the Flight dropped leaflets and poppies - and also a tin of Liquorice Allsorts on a small parachute as had been done on several occasions in 1945. Bill organised the sweetie aspect and the Bassets Liquorice All Sorts were duly dropped over the airfield at Gilze Rijen by Bill, from the rear turret, and later presented to a local orphanage - typical Bill.

Bill was something of a legend in the Maritime world before coming to help out at Coningsby where he was an Ops Officer full time and part time Lancaster pilot from whom I learned a great deal. I was starting with zero hours in the left seat and about 25 hours total on the Lanc. It was a comfort for confidence to have colleagues such as Bill and Derek; in the early months it was Bill that did the stronger crosswind landings and the approaches into the shorter airfields

Hope that puts a bit more flesh on the outing. Respects to two grand men and aviators who are with us no more.

[95i]

Very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.

[Vortex_Generator]

BBMF Lanc was at XV Sqn Laarbruch May 81 when the sqn got a new Standard.

[95i]

8 May 1981

No XV was awarded their new Squadron Standard by Sqn Ldr Peter Boggis DFC, Sterling pilot of XV Squadron in 1941 and 42.

Did the Lancaster stay overnight?

[BBadanov]

Aha, that must be my memory of the Lanc at Laarbruch with XV :ok:

But sorry, I cannot remember if it overnighted.

PS In May 81, W/C Trevor Nattrass was OC XV.

[NickB]

The co-pilot was Bill Houldsworth; he joined the RAF in 1943 as a WOpAG flying Ansons, Whitleys, Wellingtons, Stirlings, Halifaxes and Lancasters before reroling to pilot in 1951. He subsequently flew Lancasters, Neptunes, Hastings and Shackletons (MR and AEW).


As an aircraft mad 8 year old in 1980 collecting autographs at airshows, I met Bill Houldsworth at St Mawgan IAD, where he was flying PA474. I remember my Dad telling me that he had been wartime aircrew on Lancs. Still have his autograph at home along with someone called Mike something - I think he was the Flt Eng at the time.

I know it is over 30 years ago now, but hard to believe that wartime aircrew were still actively serving & flying in the RAF at that time! :ok:

[PPRuNeUser0139]

It was Bill Houldsworth who famously bounced a Shack off the sea..

[Pauline Roose]

I know its a year since this post was started but I have just come across it through social media. Wonderful to read this as I am the proud daughter of M/Eng Robert Derek Butcher. I believe he was the only one to fly the Lancaster during the war and also on BBMF. Good to hear the story of the oil leak, not heard that one before. I also knew Bill Holdsworth very well. Also knew Ray Leach, Ian Gibson, Jacko Jackson. Still keep in touch with Mrs Jackson.
Would love to hear from anyone who new my Dad.
Best Regards Pauline Roose - Butcher

[CClass]

Yes, I remeber the Spitfire at Laarbruch as I was on the Airfield when it arrived. It caused quite a strir in the local area as it was reported that it tore round the local area. Germans stopping cars and jumping in ditches etc. I understood it was ther for BB week.

[Scottso]

Hope it is of some help. Check your pms.


Missed a potential contact; try Major Day via the BBMF or phone book.


Good luck.

[Dengue_Dude]

It's my understanding the last time Spitfires visited Laarbruch (prior to this), they didn't land . . .


M. Eng Butcher - it was my pleasure to know this gentleman at RAF Finningley. Nice guy and very modest - unlike his sidekick Chuck K.

[Wander00]

Is Ray Leach still around? Remember him from the HQSTC STO team - he handed my OC Admin a Sterling and asked him to strip it - OC AW returned it without a word (nor having stripped it!)

[FAN BLADE]

Pauline
I worked with your father during my time on the BBMF groundcrew between 1975 and 1979 at both Coltishall and Coningsby. Both your father and Gibbo were great Flight Engineers and were a pleasure to both work and socialise with. Both Jacko and Gibbo could be grumpy at times though. The last time I met Betty was at Jacko's funeral at Woodhall Spa. When asked how quick she had returned from Boston after the private cremation she replied "I fast tracked him".


I have been invited to Coningsby on the 13th August to see both Lancaster's fly together for their PDA, it will be a sight I thought I would never see in my lifetime.

[Robin54]

Hello Pauline And Everyone who knew my Dad. I came across this website by chance, whilst trawling through the history of PA474. I was at Waddington back in August to see the 2 Lancs at their younger sister XH558. Great day. This took me back to when Our Dads were aircrew. I first met Derek, Shelia and Pauline back in 1969/70 when our Dads were stationed at Boscombe Down. Yes Dad could be "Grumpy" at times, but when he and Derek got together, they were like naughty school boys always chuckling. I remember, Bill, Jacko and Ray's name rings a bell. I have enjoyed reading your comments. Thank You. Any More..? Oh.. Did the PA474 ever visit Berlin during the 70's? Or was it the same trip as Laarbruch?

[Robin54]

Fan Blade - Thank You for your remarks on Derek and Dad. Yes he could be grumpy...LOL But when he and Derek got together. they were like naughty school boys, always chuckling... I've come across this website by chance after going through the history of PA474. Someone thought Laarbruch was the only time the Lanc visited Germany? But wasn't there a trip to Berlin during the 70's too? I remember Bill and "Jacko" and the Name Ray Leach does ring a bell too. Any more anecdotes from those days would love to hear them. I was at Waddington back in August for the memorial fly pass. Great Day and great to be up and close to the old girl.... And Hello to Pauline too.....First time I met Derek, Shelia and Pauline, would have been 1969/70....RAF Boscombe Down... We were but children then...Ahh!
Cheers
Robin..

[95i]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m236/95iwarzukurz/1988_05_BBoB_SpitfireLaarbruch_on_way_to_Hannover_airshow_zp sdc292682.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/95iwarzukurz/media/1988_05_BBoB_SpitfireLaarbruch_on_way_to_Hannover_airshow_zp sdc292682.jpg.html)

[Romeojulietgolf]

From a Logbook check. The BBMF Lanc flew direct from Coningsby to Laaarbruch on 24Sep82 for an 11(F) Sqn event. The aircraft flew, displayed, at Laarbruch and Wildenrath on 25Sep prior to returning from Laarbruch to Coningsby via Manston on 26Sep82.

That was the final series of flights for the Lanc that year. Out of interest the Flight Engineer was MEng Derek Butcher who had joined the RAF in 1942 and been shot down in a Lanc over Abeville in August 1944. He was taken prisoner and escaped twice, the second time living with a family in Brussels until the city was liberated by Canadian and British Forces. I believe this was his first revisit to Germany in a Lanc since the war so there was time to look out of the windows and enjoy the scenery and reminisce.

A story from the Laarbruch transit - The Lanc was normally pretty pristine and seldom leaked oil. Somewhere en route the No 3 engine developed a small oil leak and I pointed this out to Derek. He took one quick look and said something quietly along the lines of. 'OK, I see it and will tell you before you need to worry!!' Nicely put - and me well in my place but even more respectful when I considered his background. I think this may have been Derek's last outing with the Flight.

The co-pilot was Bill Houldsworth; he joined the RAF in 1943 as a WOpAG flying Ansons, Whitleys, Wellingtons, Stirlings, Halifaxes and Lancasters before reroling to pilot in 1951. He subsequently flew Lancasters, Neptunes, Hastings and Shackletons (MR and AEW).

Bill flew on Operation Manna, dropping food supplies to the Dutch in May 1945; his final flight in the RAF was on the 1985 (40th) anniversary of Operation Manna when the Flight dropped leaflets and poppies - and also a tin of Liquorice Allsorts on a small parachute as had been done on several occasions in 1945. Bill organised the sweetie aspect and the Bassets Liquorice All Sorts were duly dropped over the airfield at Gilze Rijen by Bill, from the rear turret, and later presented to a local orphanage - typical Bill.

Bill was something of a legend in the Maritime world before coming to help out at Coningsby where he was an Ops Officer full time and part time Lancaster pilot from whom I learned a great deal. I was starting with zero hours in the left seat and about 25 hours total on the Lanc. It was a comfort for confidence to have colleagues such as Bill and Derek; in the early months it was Bill that did the stronger crosswind landings and the approaches into the shorter airfields

Hope that puts a bit more flesh on the outing. Respects to two grand men and aviators who are with us no more.

I am sorry to reply to this thread four years on but I came across it whilst searching for the BBMF in Germany. I have good reason to remember the visit as I was lucky enough to fly in the Lanc on the second day in the rear turret. Bill Houldsworth was my Boss when I was working in Coningsby Station Ops. Bill had promised me a trip in the Lancaster but I got posted to Laarbruch before I got the chance to fly. I meet the Lanc when it arrived at Laarbruch and it was nice surprise to see that Bill was the Co-pilot. The following day I was sleeping off nights and I got a knock on the door in Weeze and was told I was going to get a flight in the Lanc. Typical of Bill, he had not fogotten his promise! I am 6ft and not built to be a rear gunner but some how I managed to squeeze into the turret before the door were closed behind me. It was only after we landed that the thought occurred to me that I would not have been able to get out of the aircraft had it got into difficulties. It has been a good talking point over the years, as I was able to say I flew in the Lanc over Germany.

Reading some of the other posts I seem to recall back in 82 being told that It was the first time BBMF Lanc had been back to Germany, but it was along time ago. Bill did mention the Shackleton flight where they filled the tail fins with sea water and he also spoke was on the longest Shackleton flight of 24+ hours.

[Circuit Clear]

Thought these 2 may be of interest, taken by me from the Tower as AJ-G flew past XV as part of a multi aircraft display. The Lancaster also took various people up on local trips, not me unfortunately and I haven`t seen it flown quite so enthusiastically since. Can`t be too sure, memory fade, but I think an HS125 from 32 escorted the Lady across to help with radios, nav possibly.

[Brian W May]

The elephant in the room:

Bit of a novelty, a Lancaster night-stopping in Germany . . .