New enstrom Helis

[PhlyingGuy]

PARIS: Enstrom enters piston single training arena with new two-seat helicopter (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/paris-enstrom-enters-piston-single-training-arena-with-new-two-seat-helicopter-387352/)

Looks like Frank is going to have some competition for both of his product lines!

Enstrom Helicopter is turning up the heat in the closely fought piston single helicopter market with a new two-seat offering under development.

The Paris air show debutant says it is also looking to produce a new entrant in the light turbine helicopter sector to rival the new short light single being developed by Bell Helicopter and the in-production Eurocopter EC120 Colibri and Robinson R66.

"We want to offer a larger 5-seat version of our 480B but with more power and an asking price to rival our competitors," says Enstrom chief executive Jerry Mullins. "We are hoping to get the go-ahead from our parent company Chongqing Helicopter Investment [CQHIC] then we can press ahead with development".

CQHIC acquired Menominee, Michigan-based Enstrom in December last year from Segway inventor Dean Kamen. The investment firm has stated its intentions to expand the helicopter family, with Asia a key market for the existing and new helicopter lines. As well as the 480B, Enstrom also produces two piston-engined models - the F-28F and the 280FX - which will be built alongside the new design.

The two-seat, as yet untitled helicopter, will be pitched against the R44 and the Schweizer S-300 series in the hotly contested training market. The aircraft will be a smaller version of Enstrom's 280FX three-seat piston single.

"It will retain the 280's key features such as the unblocked tail rotor and the inertia rotor system, but it will have a smaller nose and tail and will be powered by a different [undisclosed] Lycoming engine," says Mullins.

"We are also looking at other features such as a graphite cockpit to make the aircraft as light as possible," Mullins adds. The aircraft is earmarked for certification next year.

"We hope to capture a large share Asian pilot training market, particularly in China where there is growing demand," says Mullins.

[mickjoebill]

Since the majority of accidents occur in training lets hope they use the composite cabin structure to make it as crash worthy as a F1 car...


Mickjoebill

[FLY 7]

Sounds promising. Hopefully, all the new activity and competition in this sector will be good for the industry and consumers.

[Arm out the window]

They should look at sticking a diesel in it too, get rid of the avgas dependence.

[nomorehelosforme]

Really, please give some clarification to your remarks?

[PhlyingGuy]

Really, please give some clarification to your remarks?

Probably something like what's rumored for the EC120... someday... maybe.

Diesel On Track To Replace Turboshafts On Light Helicopters | Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/hai-convention-news/2013-03-04/diesel-track-replace-turboshafts-light-helicopters)

[topendtorque]

PhlyingGuy

Any piccies and or specs of new Entsroms, can't seem to find anything on their web site?

tet

[PhlyingGuy]

haven't seen anything.

probablysamehelidesign.jpg

[FLY 7]

The new Enstrom Turbine, with RR500, is referred to in this Loop video, from a couple of years ago.

LoopTV.Aero (http://www.looptv.aero/LTVCategory103/1009/ENSTROMCEOSPEAKSTODC.aspx)

So, the development may be fairly advanced, and Enstrom may have made the announcement to counter the interest Bell has generated in its proposed light single. The R66 is likely to facer tougher competition.

[Arm out the window]

Really, please give some clarification to your remarks?

OK, I think it'd be good if a light, powerful diesel engine could take the place of a piston engine so:

a) you wouldn't have to find avgas in places where it's getting harder to source;

b) carb icing would never be a problem as they're injected;

c) they probably wouldn't burn so readily when crashed;

d) I imagine they could run on jet fuel if properly set up, which would simplify fuel arrangements in a lot of places;

That's about it for now, if I think of any more clarifying statements I'll add them later.

[FSXPilot]

All the Enstroms are fuel injected so carb icing has never been issue for them.


Enstroms don't crash very often and I've never heard of them bursting into flames like another common piston tend to do.

[Nubian]

Ask Frank Robinson for advise.
He was exploring the possibility as a diesel-engine would run on JET, and operators would have no problems operating anywhere in the world. Try get AVGAS in Africa north of Limpopo.....!!

If he had found a diesel engine that had the right power-to-weight ratio, the R-66 would have not come out, rather a R-44TD would have been reality. As he could not get such an engine, the step up to a turbine was the way to go.

[John R81]

Weight still seems to be the enemy of Diesel as a powerplant.

Aircraft have used diesel engines sincethe '30's.

Car engines are heavy for pwer output; opposed cylinder engines reduce weight required in the cylinder head (to oppose from compression forces) and allows a 2-stroke design to remove the valve train (the reciprocating pistons expose the exhaust / inlet ports) which also creates uniflow scavenging.

Napier took this concept further and produced the Deltic, with 3 cranks and 6 pistons per bank arranged in a tiangle so that pistons always opposed - further weight saving / power output.

Seems the development of 2-stroke, opposed cylinder diesels has continued: Green Car Congress: Achates Power opposed-piston diesel for TARDEC will demonstrate multi-cylinder configuration (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/02/achates-20130204.html)

[Gaseous]

I cant help wondering if the new 'training' Enstrom will be an updated, lightened 28A which was a bit on the heavy side, particularly 3 up but if it could lose about 200 lb and be limited to 2 place I always thought it would be winner. We'll see. I wouldnt be surprised to see a Lyco C1A in a much lightened 2place airframe using standard Enstrom rotatables.
We discussed the diesel option on Pprune many years ago and the only options at the time were the SMA and Mercedes automotive derived wilksch and Thielert. None were practical at the time as either too low powered or too heavy.

However Delta Hawk are getting close with their V4. I bet we'll see a viable diesel in the not too distant.

[mickjoebill]

d) I imagine they could run on jet fuel if properly set up, which would simplify fuel arrangements in a lot of places;


Diamond DA42 twine engined fixed wing use the Austro Turbo Diesel, 168hp 125kW using 3.2 gph in loiter. 4 cylinder it weights 185kg.
It uses Jet A1 and Diesel
Initially 1000 TBO, now 1500 TBO for $22k.

Looking at their other engines a rule of thumb for weight to performance seems to be approx 1kg per 1hp.

They are working on a 300hp engine.

http://austroengine.at/uploads/pdf/mod_products1/AE300_Technical_Data_Sheet.pdf

In comparison the R66 RR300 engine weights around 100kg and delivers 224shp continuous at 23gph.

Mickjoebill

[Dennis Kenyon]

Interesting ... the subject of a factory produced Enstrom trainer ... When I was running Skyline Helicopters at Wycombe Air Park in the early 1980s, that highly experienced Enstrom engineer and pilot, Simon Gibson was working on the idea. As already mentioned here, the new machine was to be manufactured as a fixed two-seater. The luxury items of chrome controls, posh carpets, luggage locker etc would go along with the turbo charger. A good weight man would be brought in to get 200 lbs off the empty weight.(mass for you newer guys) Standard fuel tank to be the original 180lbs, with a 240 lb tank option. Airframe colours to be any colour as long as it was Khaki. The C1A injected engine would remain at 205 bhp.

The 'A' model certified MAUW to remain at 2150 lbs. I pledged to give Simon an immediate order for six such machines on the basis of ultimately taking a solid 12 each year for starters. The new model was to be called the Enstrom Skyline, but I hadn't agreed that at the time with the factory owner, one F Lee Bailey! Sadly it all came to nought since at the time Enstrom had no interest ... but for what my judgement was worth and with the sale of 138 Enstroms already behind me and with world wide sales in mind, I believed such a trainer would have put the Enstrom factory firmly on the international flying training map throughout the 1980s even with the R22 beginning to dominate the training market. And just to remind you guys, even after 40 years in service, there has never been an Enstrom fatality in the UK. I cannot think of any major type that has such an impeccable record.

If Enstrom, under their new Chinese ownership, do put such a machine into production ... how I'd want to be forty again to lead that market ... and maybe make a few bob! Good & safe flying to you all. Dennis K.

[PhlyingGuy]

Rotor & Wing Magazine :: European Researchers Test Diesel Alternative to Turboshaft (http://www.aviationtoday.com/rw/products/engines/European-Researchers-Test-Diesel-Alternative-to-Turboshaft_79572.html#.Ucs4DBbaltc)

The V8 engine that is being tested is the HIPE AE 440 – the result of a collaboration between France’s Teos Powertrain Engineering and Austria’s Austro Engine. The former company, which specializes in car racing, designed the core engine. The latter manufacturer rather focused on components like the full authority digital engine control (FADEC) and, above all, airworthiness.

The engine has a total weight (including oil, accessories, etc.) of 528 lbs. For an equivalent level of performance, a turboshaft would weigh between 265 and 285 lbs. An equivalent level of performance does not mean equal power rating. A diesel retains its performance from sea level to 8,000 feet at ISA+20 temperature, which a turboshaft can’t do, according to Clean Sky officials. However, the demonstrator is not fully optimized, its designers concede. The starter is not a starter-generator and it has two batteries instead of one.

[as350nut]

528lb for the diesel vs 285 for the turbine
440hp vs 520ish for the turbine
in a ec120 that's already weight and power limited and could well do having 600hp to make it really perform, looks like going back not forward. I suppose prove the concept and then get the performance details worked out. Just doesn't seem an impressive start point to me.

[Hughes500]

Why a diesel engine, with new petrol engine cars the power to weight ratio let alone the fuel consumption is incredible and they use mogas 25% cheaper than diesel. Another big saving would be in oil consumption, Lycoming HIO360D1A engine 1 litre at £ 5.50 every 2 hours ( include 25 hour oil changes here) or £ 5.50 per 150 miles. My car with 200hp engine £ 65 of oil every 15000 miles. Convert 15000 miles on a Lycoming that is £ 550 in oil !!!!!!
About time aviation woke up and smelled the coffee:ugh:

[FrankGrem]

I agree Diesel Engine have an outrageous advantages over Petrol one..I am just truly astounded by it's envious features..:O:O

[HeliHenri]

.
Cessna provides from now his C182 Skyline with diesel engine only :
Turbo Skylane JT-A - Greater range or higher payload with lower fuel burn (http://www.cessna.com/single-engine/turbo-skylane-jta)
.