First graduates on new Fast Jet course

[mmitch]

The first four pilots to graduate on the new fast jet course at Valley have graduated.
Fast Jet Success (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/fast-jet-success-13062013)
mmitch.

[muppetofthenorth]

Personal congrats to Ste - if you're reading, mate, it's Recce - got there in the end!
Well done to the others, too.

[Stitchbitch]

Well done Tom, looks like all the chippy flying paid off ;) Well done to the others too :ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Very many congratulations on graduating ... :D:D:D:D

Just loved the MOD picture caption here included in their Press Release (yes I know it's a library picture) ... so you have to be an AVM to demonstrate the Hawk Sim :ok:

MOD Press Release New FJ Graduation (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/first-pilots-complete-new-fast-jet-training)

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/image_zps3c69dd53.jpg

[500N]

Coffman

They have a different caption for that photo in the OP's link
with the AVM name ?

[Wander00]

Well done them, and the greatest respect to Dr Egging.

I remember my graduation from 22 Gnat Course at 4 FTS in June 1966 - told at breakfast to look at the programme as I am leaving on posting to OCU that night, but first dual, solo, sim and FHT sorties. Completed that lot and Bob Turner tells me to complete my log book, get it signed and pack - train leaves at about 1830, "Oh, and you are posted to Canberra Strike OCU at Bassingbourn". No ceremony whatever - but then I did not win any of the prizes either. Seems a long, long time ago.

[Bob Viking]

Congratulations to all the graduates. From someone who was intimately involved with the programme I can assure you all that the new course is a very challenging and relevant one. These guys have done well to complete it despite all the 'turbulence' they may have experienced. The frontline OCUs should now see a noticeable difference to their input standard.
BV

[Wander00]

They will have worked harder and know more than I did for sure. Per Ardua.

[smujsmith]

Well done the "fab four" - I'm sure you have a great life in front of you. As just an ex Groundcrew bloke, why does an AVM need a flying suit. Could it be the "high" office he holds or has his normal driver been sacked ? :mad:

Smudge

[NutLoose]

Does no one else see something a bit sad in the fact the tinware on offer actually exceeds the amount of bods actually qualifying these days....

Congratulations to one and all, but if the classes get any smaller it will look more like a looting than an award ceremony.




..

[cuefaye]

Good Luck young men :D

[johnnypaveway]

wah shield - and lady -

[500N]

Question for those who may know.

Would Air Vice Marshal Mike Lloyd, the pilot they say
is in the Hawk trainer be one of the last Falklands veterans
serving in the RAF ?

And maybe the highest ranking Falklands veterans ?

[ShyTorque]

Would Air Vice Marshal Mike Lloyd, the pilot they say
is in the Hawk trainer be one of the last Falklands veterans
serving in the RAF?
And maybe the highest ranking Falklands veterans?

Gosh, I feel old; but to be fair he really has done all right for a new boy...

Sim practice, eh? Probably learning how to do a wingover properly. :E

[newt]

The RAF is now so small that you hail the graduation of four fast jet pilots!!

I am lost for words:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Not so much the fact there's 4 on this course, rather the fact that they're the first to graduate from the AFJT course on the Hawk T2, newt.

[Antrim Kate]

Would Air Vice Marshal Mike Lloyd, the pilot they say is in the Hawk trainer, be one of the last Falklands veterans serving in the RAF ?


Probably. :)


And maybe the highest ranking Falklands veteran?


No. ;)

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

These guys have done well to complete it

I suspect that the gal did as well.

[Bob Viking]

GBZ.
Since I know all of them personally and have flown with most of them I am well aware of their gender persuasions. Knowing the lady in question I feel sure she will not mind being called one of the guys.
BV

[Al R]

Well done to them all (this is their day and rightly so, but not forgetting the instructors and others who got them there); the latest stage in a long journey.

[[email protected]]

Sim practice, eh? Probably learning how to do a wingover properly. ooooohhhh you'll go straight to hell for that one:E

At least in the sim there won't be any random vehicles to 'distract' him from the manoeuvre;)

[sljmaster]

It's good news recruiting has started again, I'm planning to apply in February and for years I've been worried they still wouldn't be recruiting pilots by then!

[Flap62]

BV

re your last post.

If it means what you would suggest it does then that is at best a cheap shot and at worst an invasion of someone's very private territory. If someone wishes to make intimate details public then it's up to them, it's not really the place for "mates" to make slightly oblique comments on a public forum.

[StopStart]

Wow. Just wow.

I'm guessing that not only have you grasped the wrong end of the stick but you do in fact have the wrong stick altogether..... :hmm:

[downsizer]

At least one serving WO was a JT in the Falklands. MiD too....:ok:

[[email protected]]

Flap62 - I think you might have read more into the phrase I am well aware of their gender persuasions. than BV actually meant;)

[Bob Viking]

Flap62.
Well done for jumping to one of the most ridiculous conclusions that I have seen on this forum for a considerable time.
For those that don't understand big words let me rephrase my original post (which was in itself a reply to a pointless comment in the first place):

I know all of the graduates well. There are three boys and one girl. They like fast planes. They all bat for the correct teams.

Talk about adding two and two together to make yoghurt.
BV

[Bob Viking]

I meant to also say to SLJ that you should remember these guys have already been in the RAF for a few years and that recruiting for pilots is due to recommence in 2014. However, bearing in mind the powers that be may well have got rid of more pilots than they should have recently (and pissed off a number of others to the point that they also intend to leave) you may find the floodgates will open in the not too distant future.
Good luck when your time comes.
BV

[BEagle]

Congrats to the latest batch of neo-JPs!

But Bob, old chap, it is entirely possible that, read in abstract, the comment Knowing the lady in question I feel sure she will not mind being called one of the guys.
could perhaps be a touche ambiguous?

Anyway, lucky folk - that Hawk T2 cockpit looks pretty demanding to operate. Well done to you all - a pity that there's no live weaponeering at Valley these days though, I think that's a great loss. Even worse than the demise of 'proper' TWUs.....:rolleyes:

[Bob Viking]

BEagle.
Perhaps but it was meant to be an innocent and genuine remark. She, like most girls I have met in the FJ world, is probably sick of pseudo feminist apologists who constantly remind everyone that she's 'different'. She'd probably rather just be known as a FJ pilot.
Anyway I apologise unreservedly on behalf of us all for the blatant thread hijack.
Well done again guys and best of luck on 15/29.
BV

[PURPLE PITOT]

Touched a nerve perhaps?

[raytofclimb]

Well done those pilots. But why are we celebrating? They deserve medals for just sticking it out in that shambles for so long while their peers that got sold out and made redundant are (largely) flying for civilian carriers or otherwise building a lasting career.

How long have we had those jets? I'm embarrassed for them that the pinnacle of their training is overshadowed by the fact that they should have been out of that miserable place and earning flying pay more than a year earlier.

Well done all of you. Shame on our pathetic legacy of a once grand flying training system.

Ray

[typerated]

Well done all - better late than never getting students through modern training to OCUs

What happens now to the Hawk T1's at Valley?

[drwild]

BV,

I did laugh. Thought you might recognise some of this:
RAF Hawk T2 Course 1 - The Hawk T2 Test Pilots - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPpnMLhBCBQ)
Enjoy!

[DITYIWAHP]

On seeing the graduation photo from afar (with my ageing eyes) I did wonder why the graduates were so old and so emblazoned with operational awards... :}

[RRAAMJET]

Hi BEags, yes, I had to do a re-read too...realized what BV meant! The Internet can be a black hole for phrases unintentionally, I suppose...

Regardless, BV's obvious connection to the graduating class deserves credit, let's hope for many more in 2014.

Well done studes, and BV, it's never easy reactivating mothballed training programmes; we are facing new-hire recruitment for the first time in 13 years here at my airline in the US...very few of the last recruiters still around!

[Bob Viking]

Wildy.
I'm pretty sure I know who you are;)
Whoever flew the jet in that video is clearly an absolute legend and pilot of the highest calibre.
BV

[Backwards PLT]

Given that his user name is drwild and there is a Flt Lt Wild on the course, I reckon I can work out who he is and I've never met him!

Congrats to all - the new hawk actually makes me feel like going to Valley again!

A few questions for those in the know, if you don't mind but please keep it open source (don't want anyone getting in trouble!):

How does the T2 compare to the T1 in terms of flying? I remember the T1 being great fun clean but if you put a couple of pylons on and a gun pod it was nowhere near as good.

Most of the vid has a centreline pod (doesn't look like the old gun?) and acquis or are they acmi pods (or one of each)? Does it have a proper RWR (looking at the thing at the leading edge of the tail looks like one)? Does the fit get changed daily depending on the sorties or do you use a pretty much standard one? Clarification would be much appreciated, just for my personal curiosity and education.

I get the big, long overdue, avionics upgrade, but any other significant differences?

Did the course start with 4?!?

[Idle Reverse]

Well done to all four of the boys and girls. Wildy; good to see you are proving the potential we saw in you at Wyton . . well done mate.

And I'm still enjoying the Highland Park :ok:

[A2QFI]

Lady and gentlemen is more my time, boys and girl is about right and the modern usage of "Guys" as a collective noun makes me vomit! It is even used by the BEEB during news bulletins.
Certainly these pilots have done a very different course to the one I instructed on at Valley in Gnats (64 to 66)! Well done and safe flying, have fun too BTW!

[Bob Viking]

Backwards.
The standard fit is as you see it. Two Acqui's an a centerline tank. The ACMI gubbins is all in the jet. It feels slightly 'heavier' as you fly it but nowhere near as bad as the T1 was with missiles. The RWR bit on the tail is due to it being a fairly standard export standard fuselage but it does not have all the real RWR wiggly amps. All the RWR and radar stuff is done via the datalink and is pretty good.
All in all it's a bloody good training platform and a far cry from its predecessor.
BV

[212man]

Al Shinner! Brings back some happy MASUAS memories...

[Plastic Bonsai]

BV: All in all it's a bloody good training platform and a far cry from its predecessor.

...but it is still basically a Hawk underneath. Some clean TMk1's were used for some ACM trials with the Hawk 200 and they wupped it easily due to the weight difference.

[Backwards PLT]

Winning ACM with no weapons on doesn't really count, imho, and isn't too surprising. And to be fair the job of the Hawk isn't to win ACM, at least in RAF service.

[Bob Viking]

Plastic.
A clean 128 vs a clean T1 would be a very even fight but would probably fall in favour of the 128 due to combat flap. Once you start putting stuff on either things change markedly.
When I describe it as a bloody good training platform I'm talking about more than its DACT ability. The Hawk has always lost to the Alphajet in BFM but I would still prefer a Hawk as a training platform any day.
Detractors will always say 'its just another Hawk' but if you get to fly it you would realise the error of your ways.
Sure it could have been better, with a bigger cockpit or composite construction but that would just cost even more. As things stand its the best training jet in service anywhere in the world right now. Once the T50 is on line in greater numbers I may revisit my statement. The M346 is also very impressive but avionics, integration and its safety record remain a sticking point.
Just my thoughts but I have flown Hawk T1, T2 and 115 as well as Alphajet and I currently work with lots of guys who've flown T38s (I've also had a good crawl over the M346 but clearly never flown it) so I know a little about what we're discussing.
BV

[Plastic Bonsai]

BV

I no hesitation in accepting your excellent experience - I'm more on the theory side anyway. Does the T2 have the "Mach Step"?

I'm not knocking the Hawk - it is a basically very sound airframe with few vices, and the T1's main attribute is the lower maintenance hours than it's predecessors - not exciting but that really hits your bottom line. It would be interesting to know how the new generation of trainers and the T2 for that matter, scores on that front.

Whilst the rumble of the Aden or the possible slight denting of a target with a weapon of moss destruction would add something to the weapon training element the DACT enables you "fire" more rounds and drop more and a greater variety of weapons - though possibly the infinite amount might make you a bit blase (like digital cameras vs film camera?) or does every shot count?

And these days the simulator element must prove a great boon as well. I did some work of the Hawk FST in 1999 and heard afterwards that the chop rate had dropped dramatically. I've never flown in a Hawk but a co-worker did and said it was just like the simulator - though he had to have the rest of the day off as he couldn't stop smiling.

[SOSL]

Lady and gentlemen is more my time, boys and girl is about right and the modern usage of "Guys" as a collective noun makes me vomit! It is even used by the BEEB during news bulletins.
Certainly these pilots have done a very different course to the one I instructed on at Valley in Gnats (64 to 66)! Well done and safe flying, have fun too BTW! .

It isn't a collective noun, its the plural of a common noun.

It's usage is informal, inclusive and friendly.

Suggest you put away the sickbag, listen to how people are speaking and try to understand what they mean.

Good luck and good flying to the graduates!

Rgds SOS

[Danny42C]

BackwardsPLT,

I was greatly heartened when I saw your Posts (#38 and #44). So far, 92 seems to have been the "stop date". Hope for us yet ! (I thought).

Then I did the sum. If you're 95 now, you were born in 1918. The Hawk 1 entered service in 1976 (Wiki). You'd be 58 then.

From your #38, I quote: "I remember the T1 being great fun clean..."

You're "'avin a larf", surely ? Come clean !

Sorry for the drift, congratulations to the four and best wishes for your future careers in whatever Air Force is left when you get to the sharp end.

Danny.

[langleybaston]

They all bat for the correct teams

Is correct correct these days?

How about "teams as nature intended"?

[Bob Viking]

Langley.
You're right of course but I'd given up caring by that point!
BV

[A2QFI]

"It isn't a collective noun, its the plural of a common noun.

It's usage is informal, inclusive and friendly."

Guys is a collective noun for a group of people as well as being the plural of "Guy"

Its (note lack of apostrophe) is too informal for my taste as I am not a sports person nor a member of a pop group or on the Jeremy Kyle show!

[langleybaston]

I doubt if anyone would get away with addressing Mrs LB as a guy.

Even a certain paedophile knew the difference between guys and gels!

[SOSL]

It's not a collective noun any more than "boys" or "girls" are collective nouns.

You are quite right about the apostrophe ( OMG how could I have made such a blunder? ).


Keep smiling!

Rgds SOS

[P6 Driver]

This video is on YouTube...
RAF Hawk T2 Course 1 - The Hawk T2 Test Pilots - YouTube

Just curious, but the reference to Test Pilots on the logo at the start of the film has me puzzled. Testing the course perhaps?

PS - Apologies for the link appearing twice - I only posted the link once and can't take the second one off!

[Just This Once...]

Don't worry, the first person that linked to it only did it once. Go back a few posts and you can read the responses in anticipation of your post… or something.