FTO in Netherlands

[gpiper]

Hello

I am very sorry if someone else has already brought up the same Thread as me, but I couldn't find any other thread that gave an answer to my enquiry. Due to financial reasons, the only country I can consider to do my zero to hero course (Integrated) is the Netherlands. I did a lot of research for a good FTO, and the ones I am down to are AIS Flight Academy, Stella Aviation Academy, and Dutch Aviation Academy. CAE Amsterdam is not in the top 3 list because part of their course is done in the USA, something I want to avoid.
Has anyone had any past experience with one or more from the FTOs I mentioned above, which one would you recommend, and why. Lastly, how good is the reputation and success in training.

Thank you ;)

[P40Warhawk]

I guess you are Dutch?
Anyway. What is wrong about having your training in another country via a Dutch FTO?
If that is already a problem because you are to far from your fam and friends, then dont even consider a carreer in aviation. You will not have a chance of a job in the Netherlands for the next 20 years most probably. So you will be far from home if you can even find a job.

Then Another point is.
DFA, STELLA, MFA, AIS are all way to expensive. Between 110-120K. But because you will start paying interest over full amount of loan from day one plus living expenses, you will end up with a debt of around 150 to 160K.
Then the chance that you have to pay for your TR when you can even find a job in Timboektoe is pretty big. So another 30-60K. Which means a debt of over 200K. Starting salaries around 1000-1500 euro a month. But since you have such a big debt , you have to pay the bank between 800-1000 euro interest per month. So from what money do you want to live? Or do you have ambitions to live on the street. Never be able to start a family? Because you cant effort that.
Besides. Stella is one huge scam. Beautiful sales talks about Boeing and Airbus will deliver so many planes in the next 20 years, so so many 1000's of pilots are needed to operate these planes plus the grey wave bullscam.

So a summary:
You want to stay close to home and work for KLM, Transavia, Arke? I would say dream on. KLM hires only from KLS, which is about to go bankrupt, NLS, KLu.
But has at the moment around 300 people who are hired on the waiting list for TR training. Only a hand full will get of this list for training on type per year.

Transavia is a Daughter company of KLM. And is also closed. Only some summer contracts, which are meant for KLS Graduates.

Arke, maybe so now and then hiring, but only experienced pilots.

Just outside Netherlands , Germany:
Lufthansa and Daughters are also closed. Have about 900 people who are hired but waiting for training on waiting list. So no chance.

For further information, I suggest you to check Airwork - Piloten Portal - Home (http://www.airwork.nl) about DFA, MFA, Stella, AIS.
There is enough written about these schools on that forum. I can tell you not much good. The only one at the moment of those which is considerable is AIS, since they have own airline > AIS Airlines. But not all graduates get chance to fly afterwords for AIS airlines on J32.

If you even consider to do flight training in a Dutch FTO, then better NLS or EPST.

But even better is try to get a job in KLU. Royal Dutch Airforce or Navy pilot.
Training will be paid for you. A job security if you make it through the whole training.

Or try to find other sponsorships.

Other way is do your training outside the Netherlands. Netherlands is the most expensive country in the world to do your Flight training.

Myself I do my flight training in Lithuania at Baltic Aviation Academy.
Costs of training is 55K euro's. Integrated. No the ABN Pilotendesk will not give you a loan for the training. They only do that for those Dutch FTO's. So you have to find another solution.

So a lot of material to read for you. If you have more questions.

Just let me know ;) .

[gpiper]

P40Warhawk thank you for replying to my thread, your reply was more than helpful!!
First of all I am not Dutch, and the main reason I am only considering the Netherlands is because I am a customer at a Duch bank, it is easier for me to pay for my training there instead of another country, plus I got relatives there who can help me with the accomodation part. The main reason I want to do all the training in one place is because I have the choice to, and I can avoid flying over the atlantic and back just to save a couple of months from the two years of training.
I know it will cost me to a lot of money, but based on the discussions I had with many pilots, all of them said the same thing, do your trainig from zero to ATPL at one place, one school, this is the golden rule. I know I can do this using the modular route, which costs a lot less, but because I am only considering Dutch schools, it is far better to do the integarted and finnish in two years. Another point I would like to mention is about the FTOs and your opinion about them. You are not the only one who supports that SAA is fake, therefore from what I understood, you support NLS, and EPST which as far as I know they are the best, can you give your opinion about the rest, like AIS, and DFA, SAA is out of the question. One more thing, I am not planing to work in the Netherlands, I only want to do my training there.

[P40Warhawk]

Then I would go for EPST, which is in Maarssen, near Utrecht.
This school works directly with Oxford Aviation Academy. But the thing is again, you dont stay in one place, because you stay partly in UK and for lot of flying in Phoenix.
Though, this training is full Integrated training. Same story btw, with NLS which is part of CAE group and CAE took over also Oxford.
And since EPST/ Oxford work together you have the chance to get job at Easyjet, Monarch, Jet2 and some other UK airlines. Though as I said before, with a huge debt. But those schools are definetely the best in The Netherlands.

Other thing I mentioned, was my training. Is also fully integrated, and whole training is in one place. Living expenses here are very low. I end up with a debt of around 65 to 70K euro's.

[gpiper]

EPST and NLS are the best in the Netherlands, I am not sure about their assesment process though, I heard it is one of the hardest but until then I got a lot of time to think about it.
Now about BAA, I read a lot of good points and bad point, the major benefit in studying to BAA is the cost. As you said the integrated course costs around 50k-60K, what about aircraft availability, and also the duration of the course?, I know Lithuania has't got the best weather to fly in but in now days, the economical factor plays an important rule in choosing the right FTO. Also wanted to ask whether or not BAA offers a job at Baltic Airlines and if they are affiliated .

[LastMinuteChanges]

Just a heads up, EPST students do not get the same opportunities as OAA APPFO Cadets, you are on the mixed courses but it has been a while (5+ years) since job opportunities were shared between schools.

[gpiper]

Well this is a bit confusing, EPST now offers the course in cooperation with OAA, why would someone even go to EPST in the first place? Also NLS is as far as I know the same as OAA oxford, and follow the same program for the integrated course, at the same cost. CAE in my opinion are trying to create a monopoly by buying the best flight schools in Europe, in the end if you don't pay 100k Euros, then you have very little chances of getting employed after you finish.
CTC, OAA, and FTE, they are the big players and anyone who wants to increase their chances of getting a job after they finnish must get their training with these boys.

[P40Warhawk]

Assesment: Yes their selection procedure is pretty hard, but he. I can tell you. At the better airlines the selection is even harder. Though, the one of EPST looks like a realy one.

Well in BAA. Yes of course there are things which are not perfect. But thats in every company.

Aircraft availability:
No problem at all. Fleet is expanding. Now 5 Technam P2002JF's, 1 Cessna 172SP Garmin 1000 cockpit. Technam P2006 coming soon for ME. FNPTII Sim for C172 and P2006. 2 FFS Level D. 1 A320 and 1 737CL.
If you have seen the site of the school you can see that its also an FTO with 22 types of aircraft. Not only for p2f, but also straight for airlines. Of course that doesnt say to much, but it could help, because they train directly for many airlines.

The weather is not perfect, but absolutely not bad. Much better then The Netherlands, and in General in spring and summer quiet many VFR days. We had not much stoppage last year. And you learn to fly in less good weather. Turbulence , Wind, some rain etc. Could be useful to know how to deal with these weather conditions. Not like some good weather pilot ;) .

BAA is not Affiliated with Baltic Air at all.
And yes the school will do everything to get you a job oppertunity. Since most students are from Russia, or CIS countries, they have basically already a job at the end of the training. So for the few others who are from Western European countries the school will do its best to get you an interview.

Hope I made some things clear for you :D .

If any questions. Just Ask.