Eurocopter after sales

[richard08h]

Having a very painful time waiting for spares on EC120 on a 12 year overhaul.
Has anyone else been misled by Eurocopter blurb
"
Eurocopter has deployed throughout the years an expansive Network of customer service Distributors, Service Centers and Training Centers, made of more than 100 different members located in 35 countries around the world.
This Network is able to offer you, locally, the full range of Eurocopter products and services you need in your daily operations to keep your helicopters in the air, whether it is a spare part, technical assistance, MRO services, or training.
Wherever you may be, Eurocopter and its Network will provide you with a local solution to your requirement! "

Anyone know a good lawyer to run a class action against this gross misrepresentation?

[helicopterray]

Did you pre-plan your 12 year inspection and order parts ahead of time, or did you wait until it was down for maintenance to order parts?

[paco]

Sounds about right - their awful servicing turnaround is well known within the industry. We kept a spare gearbox and sent our stuff to Canada.


phil

[richard08h]

The parts were ordered 1st November and the Helicopter was delivered 5th January to a Eurcopter approved workshop. Since then not only have many of the service parts not come in but defective MGB which was found to have manufacturing defects were sent to Eurocopter UK in February who then sent them to France who then said after 2 months they could do nothing but could supply a reconditioned one from the US. Then Eurocpter US said they needed a part from Canada and allegedly were ready to ship one month ago. Eurocopter Uk who is allegedly handling this issue has put it in the exclusive hands of an employee on holiday and Eurocopter UK although claiming it is now to be shipped direct can not say if the MGB has been shipped or even if it is in an assembled state. Since this is now the latest item keeping the a/c on the ground and the one holding it up I am just giving you one small piece of the many inefficiencies in the whole system. Sadly there are many more also not limited to Eurocopter- Turbomeca not so hot either.:sad:

[richard08h]

hoped I was dealing with a Eurocopter expert but seems I did not do enough homework as to putting the Heli with a group who manages Eurocopter better!:ugh:

[helicopterray]

That appears to be one big clusterf**k! It's not usually that bad over on this side.

[moosp]

Five years ago we had such trouble with the EC120 spares situation so it doesn't look as if things have changed. Had to get high authority to take a skid set off the production line as we were told there were none spare in the world. took six months overall, if we had been commercial operator we would have been dead.

Bell service is a million times better but we preferred the EC120 over the Bell product. You win some you lose some.

[500e]

Why do we stand for possibly the poorest service imaginable at the highest price on an expensive product to start with, EC AG MDHI SK the list goes on the products are flawed the service is beyond bad. :{

[Grenville Fortescue]

Why do we stand for possibly the poorest service imaginable

Because if you are "small fry" you don't really stand a chance.

Fleet operators (large civil operators and the military) receive the manufacturer's highest priority wherein parts and technical support are factored into the operator's ongoing operations.

For single users or those with small fleets, well, they hardly register on the manufacturer's radar so to speak.

Producing spare parts and keeping them in stock just isn't defendable in the eyes of the manufacturer's financial controllers for while it may have longterm unwanted consequences you are still only talking about losing the odd customer and not a fleet operator and what's more, if all the manufacturers club together so that their lack of commitment to individual and small operators is the same, well - hey presto - you don't have anywhere left to go.

The world of the 21st century is about control, control by government and control by large organisations. Consumers will increasingly become "plebs" to be tolerated - and we will have no choice but to accept it.

I could be wrong - but I doubt it.

[Evil Twin]

Indeed Grenville, I fear that you are right.:uhoh:

[WLM]

You're right on the money Grenville :D

[500e]

I agree with you GF But there are a lot of plebs & if enough kick one of them could be made to see sense, poor customer support nearly killed MD & still could :sad: so there is hope

[Grenville Fortescue]

Trouble is most of us plebs just want to get on with the business of operating and maintaining helicopters - not lobbying the manufacturers but, for those who have the will, they should pursue it.

These kind of issues are ideally a battle for national helicopter associations but, in reality, they end up doing very little so it comes back to the individual owner or operator who, standing alone is, in a word, screwed.

[richard08h]

It should not matter if we are a fleet operator or an individual -of course it makes commercial sense to look after the former however it is more expensive to run an inefficient organisation than an efficient one. Eurocopter could employ a low level statistician which would give them a very clear idea of spares inventory required-they could take a higher level one and even know from where the demands would come. It is just poor management.
Sadly the directors are over paid and under whelming. The great cry that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys-in this case we have monkeys eating caviar which causes dysentery.

[turboshaft]

Your experience is, unfortunately, borne out by the latest Pro Pilot survey:

http://sjdrimages.com/Mb/UserUploads/lPgs3VU32DK258.jpg

[Grenville Fortescue]

It should not matter if we are a fleet operator or an individual -of course it makes commercial sense to look after the former however it is more expensive to run an inefficient organisation than an efficient one. Eurocopter could employ a low level statistician which would give them a very clear idea of spares inventory required-they could take a higher level one and even know from where the demands would come. It is just poor management.
Sadly the directors are over paid and under whelming. The great cry that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys-in this case we have monkeys eating caviar which causes dysentery.

Let me assure you that EC are highly aware of their spares throughput. They (and other manufacturers) have this information available down to the last nut and bolt.

When I mentioned earlier that the manufacturer's highest priority is to fleet operators you have to bear in mind that even then they still don't pile-up spares on a special shelf for such customers - no, that would cost money and which, even for their "platinum" clients they are still not prepared to do. Instead they maintain dialogue with such customers (most of whom have fairly reliable utilisation patterns) and do their best to ensure that the necessary spares are available when required.

You mention poor management. The management of the manufacturers are quite capable of maintaining a sufficient spares stock and distributing it if they so wish but, it doesn't make commercial sense for them to maintain large spares stocks and for which reason they maintain their levels at a point where such items will constantly move.

Your caviar-eating monkeys are (in most cases) on remuneration packages which are performance oriented (certainly among the most senior ranks) and which effects everything. Their performance is measured through the company's share performance which is reviewed quarterly. They are not interested in longterm benefits, quite the opposite, they want continuously short-term gains which will bolster their bonuses and the bonuses to shareholders and this (in their minds) is not achieved by investing in a spares inventory which sits on shelves waiting to serve customers (as useful as that would be for their longterm customer relations).

You have to bear in mind that in many cases the manufacturers only buy in the powerplants to their products at the very final stage of assembly - for the same reason - because they don't want "unnecessary" assets sitting around any longer than is absolutely necessary. In other words, in terms of stock, the manufacturer will maintain those levels which are guaranteed to be used but will not maintain a reserve because that reserve affects their bottom-line which in turn affects the performance of the company's shares and ultimately senior management compensation. Most manufacturers will prefer to see you wait for their expensive spares (so they do not lose any short-term profit through so called "static inventory") while they order them from their suppliers or manufacture them during their next production cycle.

For small or individual operators who generally don't have the same predictable utilisation patterns as fleet operators and whose disappointment can have only limited consequences (in the eyes of the manufacturer) - then, as said earlier, you really don't stand a chance. Its a matter of pot luck really.

[cockney steve]

^^^^^^ I don't think Mr Guimbal works like that:p Perhaps that's why his company is such a success?

Mr. Robinson has made Rotary flight accessible to thousands who would otherwise have been outpriced,- but even that loyal and greatful band of followers is growing tired of having their wallets raped.

About time ALL Company directors were held accountable for actions which affect their company's future...This "empty the till and leg-it" culture is little short of grand-scale shoplifting.

Perhaps fleet -operators should insure their position by buying decent blocks of shares in offending companies.....Imagine an AGM where 4 or 5 shareholders stand up and say

"the board are driving this company into the ground, for short-term PERSONAL gain.-You, Mr. Institutional Investor, will be left holding an empty husk"

There have recently been just-such shareholder revolts....IT WORKS.

[500e]

GF
I think a certain amount of tongue in cheek .
There is another problem the way tax is levied on stock that encourages low holdings. But as a stake holder in a company by supporting their bottom line I expect reciprocal support, if not I will either get rid of the product & buy competitors or move out of that market! this is what a lot of people are doing.
In any other product we expect warranty = P&L, Loan machine:E
Manufacturers to put right manufacturing \ design defects.
I know the men in white coats will be along soon, I have my hat & coat

[RotaryWingB2]

You are all overlooking another reason why companies like EC, AW etc don't keep stock. Life limiting and manufacturers warranty.

Would you be happy having hyd hose fitted that only had 50% of its life left, as it had sat on a shelf just in case someone wanted it? Should the company sell parts like this and make a loss? What about having only a 6 month warranty on something that normally had 12, but again, had been sat on a shelf?

Essentially what this all means is they don't keep high stock levels, it costs money.

How this can be balanced is by having a solid supply chain. For EC products out of ECD this is pretty good, but the French aircraft.... Well, who knows what they get up to. ;)

[500e]

No I would not like 50% lifed components, "hoses" if a commercial hose Co. can turn up on site & replace a hose within hours surely a multinational should be able to sort something out in a day, 2 max, remember these are a low volume parts as you pointed out, then warranty \ life should not a problem.
It is an excuse, as long as we accept this level of service this is what we will get.
Gear boxes should be stock

[Flugplatz]

defective MGB which was found to have manufacturing defects
At least you know that it was a genuine Eurocopter part! :E

[Rabina]

EC has had very buoyant years of manufacturing and selling new helicopters (Lakota and Super Pumas especially), so they have concentrated their manpower on those programs. The spin off has been a lack of resources and personnel in being able to support existing and legacy products. Also, their lack of orders for traditional AStars and Dauphins have caused a severe slow up production orders with their sub-vendors. Imagine a situation where an OEM was producing 250 servo actuators a year for the Marignane production line, but based on new sales forecasts, they now only need 10 annually, that creates a loss making proposition for the OEM as low manufacturing rates don't make money.

Then there's a factor called loyalty. If you look at the vendors on the new EC175, many traditional EC vendors have not been successful in getting their products selected for the new helicopter, so their commercial interest in keeping EC happy is less important than before. Call it commercial obsolescence if you like.

Legacy support has become the domain of the aftermarket specialists, the OEM distributors, maintenance centers and small niche companies who understand what customer service is. I know this, because that's what I do for a living. EC make great helicopters, however, you need to develop your own network to get customer support and build up personal contacts who understand what you need as an operator.

[Grenville Fortescue]

Rabina - You are quite right in saying that the solution (in practical terms and especially for the smaller operators) is to be found through aftermarket specialists. Luckily in Europe and America these can usually be found to some degree. In other parts of the world this option isn't always available.

I am wondering, you have your location advertised as Switzerland. Well, there's this guy in Switzerland with an EC120 which is going through a 12 year overhaul and he needs some support, perhaps you could assist him! His contact is: richard08h (http://www.pprune.org/members/227161-richard08h)

;)

[richard08h]

no company can ultimately suceed if it does not have products the market will noy buy. If Eurocopter had an efficient spares such there were not hangars all over the world with AOG Eurocopters there machines would get used more and they would ultimately win when choices were being made as to which manufacturer to buy and then sell more spares. The cost of non perishable spares is minimal compared to the huge staff employed writing each other memo's and dealing with the same subject for the same client.
Airbus part of the same company understands that too well that if it is not as good as Boeing it does not get chosen again-and they are good.
Eurocopter just get the second rate team.

[richard08h]

and just when you thought it could not get worse...
Eurcopter now say they have delays in shipping due to US customs worried about military parts getting shipped...looks like the guy at Eurocopter dealing with export documentation must be on holiday

[toptobottom]

richard08h

This is interesting. My 1800TT EC120 went for its 12 year inspection in early March. It's still there and is likely to be for another month or so. The main issue is the MRGB which has suffered corrosion and needs to be replaced/repaired.

My issue, apart from the protracted delay and the €80k bill for an exchange unit, is that the maintenance organisation conducting the 12 year has found corrosion on the MRGB case on every one of the ten 120s that it has inspected. One of these ten is owned by a chum; his machine has fewer than half the hours of mine and has lived in a de-humidified, heated hangar all of its life. In his case, it was only after a week of discussion (argument) with the "ECF Dynamics Expert" at EC, that it was finally accepted that a replacement wasn't necessary :ugh:

Clearly, there is an issue in the production process and/or materials used in this component. I sort of understand that EC's priorities lie with the large corporates, but if enough of the 'little guys' get together, they may have sufficient critical mass to get up to some mischief. After all, isn't the private owner/small operator one of the key markets for the EC120? If so, it needs to keep them happy!!

Richard - would be happy to swap notes if you want to PM me with your contact details..

TTB

[Nomad110]

I just went through a 12 year on my EC-130 and was surprised how smoothly it went. After a full avionics upgrade to glass and an extensive 12 year I am back in the air. The shop I did it with is Advanced Helicopter Services in Woodland, CA and they have an extensive inventory which I think played a big part. Overall an enjoyable experience for this private owner!

[HeliHenri]

.
Hello Nomad, full avionics upgrade with G500H and above all the GTN 750 you were looking for ? :)
.

[Nomad110]

Yup! They did a great job. I am still waiting on the GTN 650 and 750. My very strict local fsdo is working on an approval process without the type specific STC. But they did a great job with the G500H, ESI-2000, traffic, XM, and all the trimmings. I just had to have my 430 waas upgraded. I am enjoying the aircraft as is for now and in November I am going to give it back for the rest of the work to be completed. I had to purchase the GTN 650 and 750 from Garmin in order to get their rebate program. Was a pretty good deal in the end...just sucks that there are like $30,000+ sitting on the shelf. I have put 12 hours on her in 3 days. Can't get enough! :)

[cobaltfrog]

Richard08

PM me I can help.

[EN48]

It is said in some circles that every EC part costs $50,000 or more. That's the bad news. The good news is that even if you have the $50,000, you cant get the part! :E

[toptobottom]

That's the good news? :confused:

I'm going to contact all the EC120 owners, particularly those who have been stung by the extraordinarily high cost of replacing components that simply should not need replacing during the 12 year inspection. We'll see if we can get enough critical mass to make our combined voice heard in the corridors of EC!

If you're interested in being involved, please PM me; I've been making such a racket personally, I'm told that EC is now formally investigating the manufacturing process/material for the MRGB corrosion problem. If that's true, there may be a benefit for all those affected, past and future.

[500e]

Almost wish we had an EC product toptobottom to help but we are having our own problem with MDHI

[lowfat]

As ec are terminally deaf to any problems with the products/services they provide...

Ec 225 mgb shafts, AS365 tgbs awfully manuals

do you honestly think a dozen private owners will have any effect?

Vote with your feet and buy something else....

[toptobottom]

As ec are terminally deaf to any problems with the products/services they provide...

It has been in the past, but the new management team is there to effect change and listening to its target market is a good way to start. There are many more than twelve unhappy customers, some of whom include successful litigation in their portfolio of expertise, so let's see... :ok:

[500e]

lowfat
What would you suggest ?

[lowfat]

After 20 years of EC promising improvements and no real progress, I haven't seen the same problems with Bell. I like AW but they are almost as bad as EC.

[richard08h]

over 4 weeks late in shipping a replacement MGB because someone forget to ask for an export licence-anybody would have thought they were a start up lacking experience-

[toptobottom]

Latest fiasco: the (only certified) supplier of EC120 MRGBs to EC has allegedly just gone bust. EC has no spare units, so if your 12 year is imminent, it's very likely you will be grounded for a long time...

I've written to EC's new CEO, Guillaume Faury, plus a couple of the EVPs, asking what EC intends doing about it. If you'd like me to add your name to the 5 other incredibly frustrated owners, please PM me.

[Grenville Fortescue]

Where is Rabina and his after market support?

Rabina - you've got 5 potential customers here!

[richard08h]

I understand if you have an A star (Squirrel) Eurocopter has licensed 3 manufacturers to make parts. EC120 only one source. Not clear if their are no takers for EC120 since it has sold poorly or Eurocopter just don't give it any consideration-does anybody know on pprune?

[Grenville Fortescue]

If you really want a gearbox badly, I suggest you arrange one through the Spanish Air Force at Sabadell. You'll probably have to enter into some kind of special arrangement mind you (such as bribing). ;)

[richard08h]

thanks for tip-any contacts?

[Grenville Fortescue]

Try Helidax (http://www.helidax.com/en/contact-us/) in Cedex France (now more than 50,000 hrs on the Colibri) to begin with. It will help if you have some "political" contacts or go over there and speak with them in person.

[richard08h]

many thanks-address is badly written out (cedex=postcode)
but have your link

[richard08h]

Was promised shipment from US 6 weeks ago of main gear box however Eurocopter still claiming to be waiting for export licence- anybody else have any experience of this?

[richard08h]

Export licence finally awarded Friday- a mere 6 weeks

[HeliHenri]

.
Hello Richard,

In Zwitzerland, there are at least 4 EC120 due to a 12 years overhaul this year.

How the operators did (or do) they manage the situation ?
.

[richard08h]

Will find out- mine went to uk so am talking uk experience

[Bell_Flyer]

Hello Richard,

I own a private AS350 Squirrel that does 50-120 hours a year. Prior to that I owned a few Bells. I researched EC very carefully before buying, speaking to many owners and joining many helicopter forum discussions. I think if you want first class customer service you'd be better off with a Bell. Hands down. End of discussion. Amen. They are that good.

The EC brand IMHO is a far superior product (no broom cupboards, more modern, fenestron, no TT straps, more powerful, better for a young family, etc) but you must ultimately, resign yourself to a poorer service.

EC's erratic support standards have been discussed many times in PPRUNE and other helicopter forums over the last 20 years or more. In other words you'd have to see it almost as though the key people responsible in EC are genetically incapable of improving logistics and there is nothing you can do about it. That's just life and it is the penalty for owning a more modern and powerful ship for private owners with little influence on EC's balance sheet.

Just my thoughts and I am another EC owner.

[Anthony Supplebottom]

The EC brand IMHO is a far superior product

BF - I have flown quite a number of EC products over the years and they are generally very good but, don't be too quick to discount the Bells.

The 407 for example is an excellent product. More responsive on the controls than a 350 and with a healthy cruising speed. Crucially, it has a cabin which in the event of catastrophe will - in my opinion - protect your loved ones better than a 350 ever will.

[richard08h]

I do agree with you.
Even with having kept me a further 6 weeks awaiting an export licence
for which they could have applied for 4 weeks earlier you would have thought they would have had the courtesy to ship immediately-but oh no 1 week to air freight from US!

[Bell_Flyer]

BF - I have flown quite a number of EC products over the years and they are generally very good but, don't be too quick to discount the Bells.

The 407 for example is an excellent product. More responsive on the controls than a 350 and with a healthy cruising speed. Crucially, it has a cabin which in the event of catastrophe will - in my opinion - protect your loved ones better than a 350 ever will.

AS - you are absolutely correct. However, in the rarefied world of private family helicopters they are impractical. You would not buy a car with a 'broom cupboard' as a family car would you? Also, family helicopters need to be quiet as you often land on smaller acreages at home or other people's home or at restaurants, hotels, etc. Believe me, the fenestrons in the 120, 130, 135, etc are ridiculously quiet. The set up is safer - hotel or visitors' home dogs barking and chasing a helo landing or taking off can get their heads chopped off in an open rotor but not in a fan tail. I realise we are in the tiniest of minority and Bell can't be expected to make its helos for private family owners only, however EC seems to be doing it quieter and with better layout, more power, crash worthy seats etc. As for catastrophic events, most of us fly less than 150 hours a year (this year I will do 80 hours or less), often only in CAVOK situations and often do not take risks when wives or little kids are on board. These are my personal experiences only.

However, I agree with you, the Bells are very good too - just not as private family helicopters, of which there are only a handful of customers who use them this way. Lastly, ingrained culture cannot change. You can't expect say, Americans to surrender all their firearms any more than you can expect EC to be good in after sales support (for private owners). This is what I have found.

PS - however one day if EC or Turbomecca pushes me to the limits of my patience then I'll probably sell my EC in resignation and go back to Bells. That time will probably be when my kids grow up and leave home.

[toptobottom]

Well after 5 months and some large bills to remedy MRGB corrosion issues (that we feel strongly we shouldn't be paying), it looks as though Richard08h and I will soon be back in the air.

We're aware of at least six local EC120s that have suffered from this problem and there seems to be substantial evidence that indicates that the issue is down to a fault in the manufacturing process, rather than due to post production environmental conditions/maintenance, etc. as EC would have us believe.

We're contemplating a class action, comprised of owners who have been affected by MRGB corrosion problems. If you'd like more information and/or would like to be included, please PM me.

TTB

[richard08h]

still not back in the air-although Eurocopter finally did their bit on the
12th August. They shipped a MGB that was for EC120 that had air conditioning-needless to say mine had none-so a mod was required-would take any engineer 2hours work-but you guessed it could only be done by A EC Canadian engineer that could not come for 2 weeks awaiting for a "technical assistance" agreement from the state department.
I would love to say I am inventing this story but this is no nightmare-just another horror story of a small boy trying to deal with a multi -national that is super dis organised!

[unicopter]

Just a general question - do people find the same issues with AS350b3/be range? ie poor service and parts sparing? Or the fact many other sources available for parts, you can bypass EC?

[Bender Rodrigez]

Hi all,

I have to say the EC network can be pretty thin sometimes. I reckon that some logistics issues happened to me in the past, but it mainly depends on your location. I had some really good relationship with EC, and some disastrous experiences with Bell!
Working in Africa at the moment, I can tell you the support is not as good as we'd like, but I never remained helpless even in the most demanding times.

I know how frustrating it can be, I've spent some time working in Geneva and was blacklisted by Europavia. At this time we made a deal with Eurocopter Italia and they performed pretty well. Maybe Mont Blanc helicopters could help you too, let me know if you need contacts or if there's anything I can do to assist, I'd be glad.

Cheers

[Rabina]

Make the time to attend trade shows like Helitech and HAI to network with the host of aftermarket companies that value your business rather than blindly issuing orders to those whose answer is "List price, nothing in stock, we might have some ready next year".

Procurement is an aviation industry skill, not something that is gifted to you just because you own an airframe.

[Pytlak]

Hi All, especially Toptobottom and Richard08. I see that you are discussing EC120B MGBs, which is exactly the topic I need to discuss rather urgently. You suggest send PMs, which is an option I was not able to locate within PPRunE so I am trying to contactz you via ordinary post. Maybe that I can attract more replies in this way. We are now trying to solve a problem with our recently purchased second hand EC120B, which, at 1200hours since new in 2007, started making metal.

It means that our nice heli is AOG. Airbus (via local maintenance org) instructed us to do some procedures, which we did and provided results. Based on the observations we were instructed to send the main unit of the MGB for overhaul (the bottom part, not the epicyclic module). We are very afraid that the overhaul will be very expensive and what is more, will take a lot of time.

I understand that there is not much chance to make the repair cheaper but I still hope that it could happen in a reasonable timeframe. If there is anyone with experience in dealing with Airbus who is willing to share this experience, I would be extremely happy. Our local maintenance says that so far they had one similar occurrence like this and that it took half a year to sort it out. If there is anyone with tips and experience, please share.

[Loki696]

Hello Pytlak,

You can contact us, we might be able to help you out.

[email protected]

Helikoptervlucht | Helikopteropleiding | Luchtvervoer - Heli Holland (http://www.heliholland.nl)

Cheers

[ersa]

Pytlak

We had a similar issue to your on the MRGB, we shipped our to airbus, to be honest they diagnosed the problem very quickly , and issued a cost to fix it , almost 40% the cost of a new MRGB.

They will fix it quickly , but expect a big bill for the repair.

[Pytlak]

Hi Ersa, can you, possibly via PM, share the price of the repair? We are still waiting for estimate from our local maintenance. Any information is more than welcome.

[John R81]

When my gearbox went back to Eurocopter, shipping the gearbox (or sections thereof) requires blanking plates and transport crate. I found these to be very expensive. And they were not available for rent - I was supposed to buy them. I searched around and found someone who would sell theirs to me, then when the job was completed I sold the things on again for the same price and got my money back.


You could look to do the same thing and save a few 000's.


Best of luck

[Pytlak]

This is something we were told by our local maintenance - that the gearbox will need special crating. Also, Airbus said to send just the main unit, i.e. the bottom part of the gearbox. Local maintenance does not have the tools to disassemble the MGB and says it needs to borrow those from Airbus Helicopters. The question is whether it is easier and quicker to send the whole gearbox to Airbus or wait for the local maintenance to acquire the tools, disassemble the MGB, crate the bottom part and send it for overhaul. I have absolutely no idea whether borrowing the tools from Airbus and local work on MGB partial disassembly might be cheaper than let it to be done by Airbus. Any experience in this field???

[toptobottom]

Pytlak - have sent you a PM. Let me know here if you don't get it?


TTB

[nellycopter]

If you think EC are bad .... Wait until you have to deal with the incompetent idiots at Turbomecca........ No matter what machine you fly you will only feel real pain when you have no option but to deal with TM......
I am 14 months on from having some metal in the engine, I opted for a service exchange, and that's where the fun really did start .... After it failing more than three times over ten months, they decided to replace it but not before I had to stand the costs to remove and refit three times, the front oil seal went three hours after fitting, FCU changed, manifolds, valves ... Everything ...
And it was suppose to be a tested engine ....
Bottom line was the same TESTED engine over the past four years had been in three different aircraft removed from ALL of them for the same fault !!!
That tells you everything you need to know about their quality control systems ....
New engine pissed fuel out of injectors on first ground runs, and now less than two hours of flight is pissing oil out .....
I will never buy another machine with that ****ty engine in it ...... Although have to say when it works it works ok .... Just hope you never break it or need their support ......

Nelly

[claudia]

NC. And..... you did"nt metion the horrendous price you would have paid
for the pleasure of dealing with TM.
I for one never again !!

[Pytlak]

TTB - yes, I received your PM and replied to your email address yesterday evening. You might want to check your spam folder as it may have been caught by your antispam.