Cheltenham Chuting

[smujsmith]

Hi all,

I thought this might interest some of the light aircraft aviators on the Mil site.

Pilot, 76, walks away from plane crash with just minor injuries after deploying emergency PARACHUTE which allowed his light aircraft to float to safety in a quiet Cheltenham back garden | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2336815/Pilot-76-walks-away-plane-crash-just-minor-injuries-deploying-emergency-PARACHUTE-allowed-light-aircraft-float-safety-quiet-Cheltenham-garden.html)

I've heard of these safety chutes but never seen one in action. Looks effective unless it lands on your head.

Smudge

[Wander00]

Remains to be seen "why", but cannot but think learning to do forced landings would have less risk to the general population and also preserve the aeroplane and pilot, and the latter's dignity, but then I am VERY old fashioned

[Runaway Gun]

I'd prefer the parachute arrival in the case of structural failure, or forced landing into forest or over water. I'm sure there's also a good case for it to be used if departed normal flight.

[Just This Once...]

Blades are bent as if the engine producing power.

Why would you leave the engine running?

Weird.

[Two's in]

Inadvertent IMC followed by departure from controlled flight is another scenario - as long as you don't exceed the TAS "pulling" parameters. But as you can see, it was a relatively safe landing in a 25 foot garden as opposed to having to find a 300 yard clear strip, assuming the aircraft made it to the clear strip in the first place. A few pilots have been unsuccessful after pulling the handle in a Cirrus, but mainly because they were outside the entry parameters i.e. they waited too long before acting. You might argue the chute is simply protecting GA pilots from natural selection in those cases but it undoubtedly saves some lives.

[endplay]

Is this the end of Martin Baker?

[NutLoose]

Blades are bent as if the engine producing power.

Why would you leave the engine running?



I would say it was at low power or idle as the blades have gone aft, an engine producing power creates a fwd facing prop cone and bend fwd, however agree you could hear it running on the way down and with the imminent crash one would have thought with the chances of tanks being ruptured you would want power off and the engine shut down..

This is an example of power on

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7493/p40eboston1941.jpg

[smujsmith]

I'm no pilot, only around 400 hrs gliding(300+ solo) but I personally think that if there was not a serious structural failure, all the normal dangly bits are present in the photographs, and the engine was at least "ticking over", why has this type of landing been used. Surely*, before pulling the handle, the pilot could have attempted to make sure his landing, by parachute, was over greenfield geography. My memories of "landing out" in a glider was the 5 s's, Size, Slope, Surface, Surrounds and Stock. This must be something the pilot felt was beyond a glide to an out of town destination. I hate to think of the result of this chute landing in a shopping centre, prop ticking over, mincing the populous. Whatever, I suspect a few might well ask if a few hundred pounds of "alooominum" arriving on their heads was something we ought to check we are covered for with our life insurers.


*sorry chaps I know " don't call me Shirley" :ugh:

Smudge

[glad rag]

A few pilots have been unsuccessful after pulling the handle in a Cirrus, but mainly because they were outside the entry parameters i.e. they waited too long before acting.

Indeed mate, indeed. Any landing you can walk away from etc.

[Lima Juliet]

The engine should have been stopped - see http://vftaviation.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/BRS_OwnersManual.pdf

The drills are normally something like:

1. Mixture cut off
2. Deploy chute
3. Fuel off
4. Battery Master off
5. Brace for landing

That said, if the pilot could not do these simple actions what are the chances of them carrying out a Forced Landing by gliding to a field. I have been of the opinion for a while that most engine failures on light singles are survivable - most touch down at about 45-60mph, and imagine driving a car in a field at that speed and most things are survivable as long as you don't come to a hard stop. But there lies the problem, a lot of pilots panic, get things wrong and either stall on short final approach in the glide (and come to a hard stop in the vertical) or hit something hard that they normally could have avoided. So maybe the Ballistic Recovery System (BRS) is the best idea to reduce the chances of this type of fatility - it stops the under-experienced and rusty pilot from c0cking up (it even works if they fail to complete the normal BRS drills).

I wonder how long it will be before there is a clamouring to fit these to MoD light aircraft (Tutors, Vigilants, Vikings, etc...) when the next fatality occurs from a mid-air, loss of control, structural failure or such like?

LJ

[effortless]

The difference in the car scenario is that they tend to stay upright. Forced landings in unknown terrain often end in strange positions.

[simon brown]

Knowing Cheltenham having lived there for a long time and having done 200hour PPLing in and out of Gloucester over the last 10 years i'd have thought there would have been plenty of places he could have effected a forced landing presuming he was at a reasonable height however there are a lot of Pylons in those fields to the west..
Over that part of town 1000' isn't un usual for a direct 27 approach If we was too low, he was too low and as they say the refs decision is final, so he did what he did for a reason.

If you Google Earth Loweswater Close and select satellite you can see plenty of green fields.If you were asked to do an overhead join you would have considerably more height and might have attempted a glide approach to the airfield ...depends on the circumstances...I guess if he was too low for whatever reason he is where he is and his options are more limited...

[Agaricus bisporus]

Over that part of town 1000' isn't un usual for a direct 27 approach

That location is 3/4 of a mile south of the extended centreline and over the middle of a city. What's "usual" about that?

[simon brown]

I was talking height for that general area of town not specifically location he floated down to and ended up in.

Do you know Cheltenham well and have you operated out of there on numerous occasions? Its a GA airfield not Gatwick and Cheltenham isn't a city. :=

[Rigga]

...could it have been the pilot that was the problem?...health issues, maybe? or something that incapacitated him and this was what made him throttle back and "Pull the Handle"* instead of making it to the airfield.

(*could be push a button - I don't know)

[Union Jack]

Now, now, everyone - please play nice! According to the BBC West TV news, he really did miss a school .....

Jack

[NutLoose]

Any aircraft that doesn't hit a school, by it's actions in landing misses one, just some are closer than others...

As for the engine running, not a good idea when you have all those chute lines about to have a big 3 bladed knife whizzing round.

[smujsmith]

There's some interesting input here. Obviously the aviators, who know the area, can see where he was, and seemingly question it. I'm still at a loss to understand why a pilot of a fixed wing aircraft would deploy a parachute of this sort, knowing he would land in a built up area. The fact that it seems that the engine was still running is also a mystery, engine running, wings still attached, a glide clear of the town seems a possibility. One thing that runs through my (admittedly limited) mind is the possibility of a switchpigs. It seems to me that this, whole aircraft parachute, is fairly new, and I wonder how protected its deployment is ? Is it possible to accidentally deploy the chute and render the aircraft unflyable ? Lots of questions, someone must have a few answers.:)

Smudge

[ShyTorque]

Here's one possible answer:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5318/wingsye5.jpg

[ShyTorque]

Or another?

http://s2.hubimg.com/u/209665_f520.jpg

[VX275]

I wonder how long it will be before there is a clamouring to fit these to MoD light aircraft (Tutors, Vigilants, Vikings, etc...) when the next fatality occurs from a mid-air, loss of control, structural failure or such like?


As a Vigilant instructor I'd welcome such an installation. I've always wondered if I could get out of a Vigilant in trouble to use the B Mk 71 parachute.
A BRS installation could be beneficial as the installation is likely to weigh the same if not less than two B Mk 71. The servicing interval for a BRS is longer and its daily inspection would be part of the BF and not a seperate bit of paperwork.
The downside is the BRS uses a pyrotechnic device to launch and UK military rules demand it has a Master arming system the civvy systems do not have. I've seen many civvy BRS installations that once the safety pin has been removed would be easilly deployed accidentally.

[thing]

One thing that runs through my (admittedly limited) mind is the possibility of a switchpigs

On the Cirrus it's a big f*** o** red handle in the roof of the a/c protected by a snap off cover. Poss of switch pigs =0.

[Literground]

I have been told, and issue disclaimers as to veracity, that the pilot fell ill.
I know that I am too old to listen to rumour, but if it s the case then I reckon that pulling the bloody handle is a good choice.

I wish there had been a magic handle like this in my time - a few folk would be still with us.

[dragartist]

So how many inadvertent firings has the BRS suffered? I guess as thing suggests: near impossible due to pressing the wrong tit or pulling the wrong leaver. I would suggest that the snap off guard serves as a MASS. Not sure if the Def Stan demands a MASS or two different types of electrical switch in series. So you have a pull and a twist. My extracts form the Def Stan are out of date. I think the DOSG (or what ever they call themselves today) sponsored rules are also being rewritten. I know they kept changing a few years back when I was working on a Pyro system that VX will be aware of. This was a safety system not unlike the BRS. It was probably made so safe that when you needed it to go bang it might not have done!! It really is a fine balance. My work brought me into contact with the BRS people. I also saw a concept for a non pyrotechnic launcher. What was wrong with a big bog off spring. that too is fraught with difficulty if the trigger is too hairy.

I share VX view that the BRS is more likely to save your life than a B Mk 71. just worry about it going off uncommanded.

[smujsmith]

ShyTorque,

Priceless, the finest example of switchpigs I have ever seen. :ok:

Smudge

[blaireau]

The a/c was in auto flight carrying out an RNav approach when the runway was switched. The A/P was selected off at which point the a/c was manually flown through major height variations. The pilot became seriously disorientated and threw in the towel.

Allegedly.

[thing]

On a wider front, regardless of the BRS issue does anyone else think that with glass and automation almost to Airbus levels available in SEP's these days that stick and rudder skills are deteriorating, just as they are in modern airliners apparently? I'm guessing here but I would think that there's a certain amount of brain switch off doing an automated approach rather than hand flying it.

I've only ever flown hand approaches so have nothing to compare it to really except I know that with the widespread use of portable GPS units in GA these days that a lot of pilots just follow the magenta and their SA goes out of the window. The argument is of course that using a GPS makes you more SA savvy... I'll put my hands up and say that I own a GPS myself but I use it as part of the nav solution, not as the nav solution.

[Tashengurt]

I'm confused. If you're flying for fun. Which I would imagine a 76 year old is. Why would you want an aircraft that does the job for you?


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[NutLoose]

Fascinating film about the development and how it works

"How Do They Do It?" Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS) - YouTube


Did I read somewhere that certain Russian fighters have a panic button that puts them back to straight and level if you lose it?

[NutLoose]

And this is a real life one, just misses a midair, but the glider line it's towing takes out his prop!!!!!

YouTube (http://youtube.com/#/watch?v=aG4nIeyaoek&feature=related)

[99 Change Hands]

Met a chap once who was given a MIG 21 to play with in India. Pre-flight brief included the big red button which would return the aircraft to wings level if you wanted to eject from a UP.

He couldn't resist, climbed up to an unfeasible height, inverted, trimmed out and pressed.

He said he'd never forgotten the feeling as it pulled through to level flight somewhat nearer to the ground.

[dragartist]

Good post Nutty, Remember the Crocodile Dundee line "That's not a knife"

Check this out

X-38: Crew Return Vehicle (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/history/station/x38/parafoil.html)

There is some video available somewhere if you search for it. Some of the early tests were done from a C17 using a ballast load of steel plates. Lots of us Brits went to Yuma to see it for real in 2009.

They were talking 30,000 lbs mass. not sure if that was suspended or extracted which may have included the weight of the chute itself, which was almost as big as a small car. I would suggest this becomes impractical for bringing a light commuter aircraft back to earth. You would need to be at a good height for this to work.

[thing]

I'm confused. If you're flying for fun. Which I would imagine a 76 year old is. Why would you want an aircraft that does the job for you?

Indeed. Friend of mine waxed lyrical about a late model 182 he'd been to France in with twin Garmin 1000's. He said that he engaged the autopilot at 1000' and flew an approach down to 500' at the other end before he disengaged. I don't think he understood my point when I said it would have been cheaper to buy an airline ticket.

[sdbeach]

One thing that runs through my (admittedly limited) mind is the possibility of a switchpigs. It seems to me that this, whole aircraft parachute, is fairly new, and I wonder how protected its deployment is ? Is it possible to accidentally deploy the chute and render the aircraft unflyable ? Lots of questions, someone must have a few answers.

Switchpigs, eh? Fascinating jargon.

As for accidental deployment of the Cirrus chute -- never happened.

The rocket is ignited by pulling a cable using a red handle above the pilot's right shoulder, reachable by any of the four occupants of the aircraft. A safety pin can be inserted into the holder to prevent extraction of the handle. And a placard cover is held on by velcro tabs.

The preflight, pretaxi and pretakeoff procedures all call for verification that the safety pin has been removed. Tragically, 5 fatal Cirrus accidents were found to have the safety pin in the holder.

So, no accidental deployments yet 5 fatal accidents killing 9 people with the safety pin still in.

Cheers
Rick

[sdbeach]

So how many inadvertent firings has the BRS suffered? I guess as thing suggests: near impossible due to pressing the wrong tit or pulling the wrong leaver.
None.

I would suggest that the snap off guard serves as a MASS. Not sure if the Def Stan demands a MASS or two different types of electrical switch in series.

Interestingly, several military academies have fitted their fleets with Cirrus SR20 aircraft. The USAF designation is T-53A.

With the introduction of the Cirrus G5 model, they switched from a mechanical igniter for the rocket to an electrical igniter. Lots of consternation among Cirrus pilots since the mechanical, spring-loaded, igniter has been so reliable, whereas electrical system failures have happened. However, engineers assure us that the igniter is wired to both BAT1 and BAT2 directly and require only a very small current to operate.

If the military requires a master electrical switch for the rocket igniter, then the wiring would seem easy to accomplish.

Cheers
Rick

[NutLoose]

Sounds like the pin needs to be fitted into with possibly a micro switch at the bottom preventing power being applied with it still fitted in the handle..

Never a fan of electrical systems over mechanical, look what happened to the Diamond Twin Star and the battery problem on that no one envisaged.

In case you do not know, they had a flat battery so used an external power to start both engines instead of one as I believe the SOP's say, then the other on internal power thus ensuring its charged enough....
Anyway off he potters, shoots off down the runway, lifts off and selects gear up (electrical) and the poor battery suddenly lumped with raising the gear and no longer having enough oomph left in it to power both FADEC's as well, results in both engines shutting down and the aircraft returning from whence it came from. Resulting in an AD and an independant power source for the FADEC.
..

[BEagle]

As a Vigilant instructor I'd welcome such an installation.

The Vigilant is a motor glider!! You should therefore be capable of flying it at any stage of flight without the engine running.

CAPS is an excellent system, but it augments rather than replaces normal SEP Class Rating pilot skills.

A straight-in 300ft/nm approach on RW27 at Staverton in a single engined aeroplane makes compliance with the 'glide clear' rule somewhat problematic:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Staverton_zps0a444927.jpg (http://s14.photobucket.com/user/nw969/media/Staverton_zps0a444927.jpg.html)

Some years ago, after being offered a straight-in approach, I was moaned at by the Flying Prevention Branch person in the tower for deliberately joining from the north-east of the RW centreline to short final in order to comply with the ANO 'glide clear' requirements......:rolleyes:

[ShyTorque]

If it had parachuted into the building just north of the centre line at about 1.5nm instead of a small garden, I wonder what would have been the outcome?

(In view of the present questions being asked in the house, it might have done us all a favour :p ).

(P.S. Do you think they are reading this? :ooh:)

[Two's in]

As for the performance of the Ballistic Recovery System on the Cirrus, the website lists the following stats;

There have been 44 known CAPS events as of 6 June, 2013. (First Cirrus event in October 2002) Of those activations, 34 deployments are considered "saves" that involved 70 survivors with one fatality (figures do not include one unborn child who was also saved in CAPS event #13).


So it's undoubtedly working for the GA pilots.

Cirrus Airframe Parachute System (CAPS) Deployment History - Cirrus Owners and Pilots Association (http://www.cirruspilots.org/Content/CAPSHistory.aspx)

[VX275]

The Vigilant is a motor glider!! You should therefore be capable of flying it at any stage of flight without the engine running.



Couldn't agree more but we wear the B Mk 71 just in case some numpty with a poor look out knocks our tail off, I'm all for a BRS to simplify our ops.

[thing]

Some years ago, after being offered a straight-in approach, I was moaned at by the Flying Prevention Branch person in the tower for deliberately joining from the north-east of the RW centreline to short final in order to comply with the ANO 'glide clear' requirements.....

Have to say that's my take on it as well. I just don't fly into/out of places that put me low over houses/other sticking up hard things on the approach. The only 'but' in that is if you can set yourself up for a glide approach. There are loads of places to fly to that don't put you or anyone at the ground at (much) risk if the fan stops. Same with take offs, if it puts me stupidly low over a built up area on the climb out then it's a no go as far as I'm concerned. Always have an out.

[Heathrow Harry]

" seems to me that this, whole aircraft parachute, is fairly new,"

not really - 30 years of experience

"BRS was founded in 1980 and introduced its first parachute model two years later in 1982, focussing on the ultralight aircraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultralight_aircraft) market. The company recorded its first save in 1983, Jay Tipton of Colorado (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_Recovery_Systems#cite_note-BRSHist-1)"

"As of 22 November 2012, the CAPS has been activated 32 times with 65 survivors and 11 fatalities in equipped aircraft"

Now we need to scale it up a leetle for an A380............. :E

[Agaricus bisporus]

I find it amazing that Staverton permits VFR traffic to do straight in approaches to 27 at all. There seems to be plenty of room for a rt base join/from NE - so why ever not?
Frankly I wonder that anyone would accept one when another and demonstrably safer and more sensible approach is available.

[BEagle]

I find it amazing that Staverton permits VFR traffic to do straight in approaches to 27 at all. There seems to be plenty of room for a rt base join/from NE - so why ever not?

Frankly I wonder that anyone would accept one when another and demonstrably safer and more sensible approach is available

Indeed. If I recall correctly, I was inbound from Hinton-in-the-Hedges to swap an aircraft which needed avionic work. The track is virtually straight in and the ATCO bleated when I deliberately flew in accordance with Rule 5 and turned right before joining from the north-east to short final....:hmm: