Captain orders 100 unruly school children off plane

[aguadalte]

Captain orders 100 unruly school children off plane - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10100429/Captain-orders-100-unruly-school-children-off-plane.html)

The captain of an American aeroplane grew so infuriated with the behaviour of 100 unruly schoolchildren that he ordered them to leave the plane.:ouch:

[Smoketrails]

Would be interesting to hear what the other passengers have to say about what they witnessed................. . . .

[Evanelpus]

Rabbi Seth Linfield, executive director at Yeshiva of Flatbush, said the school was still looking into the disagreement, but he said in a statement that "preliminarily, it does not appear that the action taken by the flight crew was justified."

Repeatedly refusing to sit down when 'ordered' by the Captain and crew sounds like justification to me.

I can see where this is going, there will be a claim that they were religiously discriminated against because they were Jewish.....mark my words!

[DaveReidUK]

I can see where this is going, there will be a claim that they were religiously discriminated against because they were Jewish.....mark my words!You're not wrong:

Airline Accused of Bias for Kicking Yeshivah Students Off Plane | TIME.com (http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/06/04/airline-accused-of-bias-for-kicking-yeshiva-students-off-plane/)

[ATNotts]

I've been on too many journeys by various means of public transport where I wished the driver / captain would take such action.

I guess that American kids (even jewish ones) are as badly behaved as their UK counterparts.

Full marks to his / her action!

[A and C]

No one wants to take this sort of action it results in a whole load of paperwork, writing reports and explaining to management. I don't know of a crew who would want this sort of extra hassle.

So this makes me think that these kids deserved the treatment that they got and when they realized they had pushed their luck too far they resorted to the I'm ( black, Jewish, Muslim, gay, lesbian etc etc etc ) and you are discriminating against me ! I will let you fill in the gaps as it is a typical minority reaction to any use of authority against them, even when that authority is upholding rules that are put in place for their safety

[Espada III]

I despair at my Jewish co-religionists. I am a reasonably observant Jew who thinks that I do not deserve anything more than what I have paid for. My experience of my more observant colleagues on all sorts of flights sometimes makes me want to hide my face in shame.

Its about time they were taught a significant lesson.

[Torque Tonight]

Passengers get offloaded because of their behaviour not their demographic. Until 'disruptive passengers' become a protected minority group then this isn't a discrimination issue. I really am not interested in the race, religion, nationality of my pax - I do care very much if they are disruptive, disobedient, challenging or threatening to the cabin crew and no minority or even majority group gets a free pass on that.

[clunckdriver]

Way back when I was a keen youg F/O on Viscounts, during one flight we had an orthodox Jewish pasenger who was making problems for the flight attendents {Before you throw crap at me, my father was an Irish Jew, myself Im some place between a non beliver and a cynic} I offered to go back and settle the guy down, the captain said he would do it, in no time he returned to the flight deck, with a quick "that fixed the stupid prick", when I asked him what he had done he simply rolled up his sleve, there was his number from a concentration camp still as clear as day, his next jem was, " shuts them up every time!". It turns out that after bailing out in WW2 he was captured by the SS, not the Luftwaffe, as a result he was not shipped to a POW camp, but rather a concentration camp which was liberated in time to save his life, he was a joy to fly with and passed away two years ago, we kept in touch on many ocasions before his death. Im told also used this ploy to settle down other ethic/religious pax who gave problems.

[grounded27]

^ Great story.

I used to work an ELAL feeder flight operated by Tower Air at the time between JFK and MIA. Never seen so many passengers taken off an aircraft hog tied by the police in my life, it seemed to be a weekly event.

[Businesstraveller]

Experience of various colleagues who've travelled to TA is that passengers can be breathtakingly boorish, arrogant and refuse to acknowledge female flight crew. Also noted that its virtually always visitors to the country and not residents who display these characteristics.

[Avitor]

Well done that Captain, he must have had good reason or he would not have acted. Had I been on the flight he would have had my gratitude.

[Sunnyjohn]

I notice that there is a complete lack of follow-up news on this which tends to suggest that the incident has been well and truly sat on. It would be interesting to hear the full story sometime.

[DaveReidUK]

I notice that there is a complete lack of follow-up news on this which tends to suggest that the incident has been well and truly sat on. It would be interesting to hear the full story sometime.Either that, or the original press reports contained all the salient facts, and it's now simply yesterday's news.

[Espada III]

[QUOTE]Experience of various colleagues who've travelled to TA is that passengers can be breathtakingly boorish, arrogant and refuse to acknowledge female flight crew. Also noted that its virtually always visitors to the country and not residents who display these characteristics./QUOTE]

Please note that refusing to acknowledge female crew may not be rudeness but a condition brought about by very limited contact with women who are not immediate family. This part of ultra orthodox Judaism; the men simply do not know how to communicate with women in a position of authority.

Now I might agree with you that this unacceptable behaviour, but don't blame the individual, rather the anachronistic system. As a frequent flier on flights to tel Aviv culprits of poor behaviour are not limited to the ultra orthodox and some of them are particularly well behaved. Part of the problem is that we Jews are a small community so on a flight from MAN to TLV I could easily know over half the plane load of passengers pretty well. So one is bound to want to get up and chat to an acquaintance. It's having the understanding to know when is the appropriate time to do it.

[T-21]

Boils down to basic discipline and lack of good manners,which stems from bad parenting. No respect shown to authority, passengers walk on an aircraft these day's as if they own it .

[olympus]

When I was a young F/O on the F27 operating GCI-SOU we boarded a very rowdy (and probably somewhat intoxicated) touring party from a Bristol rugby club who were going home. With engines running and despite several requests from the two female cabin attendants they refused to remain seated and be quiet. When they ignored the captain's request he returned to the flight deck, instructed me to shut 'em down and call for the police. The rugby club members were all off-loaded and told not to bother coming back. I believe they left on a ferry two days later.

Of the remaining passengers, most subsequently wrote to the company in praise of Captain Day's actions. I don't recall any complaints, not even from the rugby players!

[Sunnyjohn]

This part of ultra orthodox Judaism; the men simply do not know how to communicate with women in a position of authority.
If this is the case, and I do not doubt that you are correct, then they should not be allowed to potentially endanger a flight by being put into a position where they may have to take orders from women. One way around this would be for the organisers of the party to contact the airline, explain the problem, and ask that the flight attendants (and possibly pilot and copilot) are male. If the airline are unable to do this, then they need either to seek an alternative airline that can, seek alternative transport, or abort their journey.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Surely you're joking? Expect the airline to change the crew due to passenger bigotry? Dream on!

This problem is no more or less than a complete lack of cultural sensitivity amongst some of the Orthodox jews who seem to think that they can behave any way they like in another nations culture. Sure, they may do this on El Al but doing it on another airline is just as unacceptable as me walking into a synagogue eating a pork pie.

The problem becomes more serious when they refuse to listen to safety briefings or otherwise comply with crew's instructions unless a male speaks to them which undermines the female crew's authority as well as her confidence. And if the entire crew is female - pilots included? It just isn't acceptable behaviour.

Sadly men in black homburgs have a reputation unique in my experience for severely upsetting cabin crew by their attitude.
Not all of them, but far too many just the same.

[albatross]

And what, may I be so bold as to inquire, were the so called "chaperones" doing during these goings on?:mad:

Well done to the Capt. and crew!:D

[Sunnyjohn]

Surely you're joking? Expect the airline to change the crew due to passenger bigotry? Dream on!
Sorry Ab - I thought you'd realise that the post was ironic.

[Espada III]

Funnily enough, when Jet2 started flying MAN- TLV, they had male only cabin crew. Behaviour has deteriorated since female crew started.

Make of it what you will. I cannot (and will not) apologise for the poor behaviour of some of my co-religionists as I too find it to be unacceptable and would have also applauded has they been removed from that plane if I was sitting on it.

In fact I go out of my way to try to show cabin crew (and anyone else I deal with) that Jews can be courteous and considerate. The problem is that the ultra orthodox are so visible by their dress code that my regular clothing and modest skullcap are invisible in the inevitable scrum on boarding the plane.

As I said, it may be poor upbringing etc, but it is a cultural thing which will take generations to alter and will inevitably increase antisemitism amongst those people for whom this has been their only experience of meeting Jewish people.

[Basil]

A b, Sure, they may do this on El Al
My understanding is that El Al don't stand for any of that sort of cr*p.

[Businesstraveller]

"This part of ultra orthodox Judaism; the men simply do not know how to communicate with women in a position of authority."

It would be nice if passengers primarily considered cabin crew as just that, rather than men or women.

The attitude seems to extend to women in general. That would explain why when the man sitting next to my female colleague wanted to get out of his seat he jabbed her in the ribs to get her attention and then gave her a dismissive hand gesture to tell her to get out of his way. If he is quite so wedded to such archaic cultural practices perhaps he should travel on a donkey next time.

[Phileas Fogg]

The modern day "call centre" mentality ... or lack thereof.

They couldn't have booked 100 seats online, no doubt they phone booked a group booking of 100 17-18 year olds, perhaps, with no adult chaperones and nobody in the airline had the initiative to think "Houston, we just may have a problem here".

It was the airline's fault and the buck stopped with the Captain.

[DaveReidUK]

no doubt they phone booked a group booking of 100 17-18 year olds, perhaps, with no adult chaperonesThey were chaperoned (see post #1), though clearly not adequately.