500 hrs LINE TRAINING habit

[Nuovomondo]

500 hrs line training is really a non-sense expression and concept.

There is some evidence that maybe this habit is coming to the end and deflating.
I know few guys who sustained all the trainings, did various checks, the Company Conversion Course , the Line Proficiency Check after a number of line sectors, working hard , with responsibility, 90 hours per month, waking up at 5 am, in a word ,like a regular hired FO .Probably someone will lower the landing gear only, probably someone else will be more lucky.
In any case they're operating as a FO in line operations.
This is a great problem for them and obviuosly for FO who worked in those companies for a long time.
I dont' want to blame those guys... Now I'm interested in something else.

We have something more crazy and crucial:
not only thery're working for about 8, 10 months for free, but they're -paying- an average of 1500/2000 per month depending on the aircraft they desire to work with as a 'hired' FO for the company, with a 'regular' contract.
I think we all can argue that an employer does not mind at all an employee who works for free or even pay...

Madness. The savings for the company is absolutely evident.Too easy for the company playing this stacked game or not?
The exploitation of the person is guaranteed.

Listen: Probably I could consider that it could make sense if, for having a kind of familiarization, a type rated guy had the opportunity to make, say, 50, 100 line hours maximum, in 1 -2 months, for example. no more. and after , go home and good luck.honest.

At that point he could have the opportunity to try an assessment for a company ,at least knowing where to put his hands once hired or how real pilot operations in airline environement are..

We also have to consider that when hired by an other airline,
the candidate will have to do all the various CCC, line sectors, LPC to be 'released' in operations, and that the 'company procedures' he learnt before during the line training will be absolutely useless.

So , it's absolutely demonstrated the duplicity of the hiring companies in putting this limit of 500 hours as an entrance gate,
probably it makes sense putting 2000 hours if they really need an experienced FO ? ,or putting only a typer rating if they're looking for a unexperienced FO?
and the companies offering this sort of 'line training' also.

Regards.

[Bealzebub]

"500 hours on type" is usually a minimum requirement as opposed to a key that opens the gate. I have said this before, but there are various "red flags" that harm an application, and it would be wise to be aware of them.

When airlines do recruit, they are usually inundated with applications. Once the nonsense and pointless are filtered out, there is still a mountain of valid applicants, and filters are applied to whittle down the numbers to a more manageable pile, from which a proportion are considered for the next stage. Each company will apply it's own set of filters.

It isn't usually very difficult to see how an applicant has acquired their hour portfolio, and if it is difficult, there isn't usually any requirement to consider it further.

For low hour applicants or cadets, the quality is important. For ab-initio cadets the process is straightforward. For direct entrants with low experience it isn't the "500 hours" that matters, it is how the "500 hours" were obtained. In airline flying, 500 hours usually represents around 8 months or so experience. That immediately begs the question why somebody with so little experience is now applying for a job with you. There can be perfectly good reasons. For example, they may have been working for a reputable company that went out of business. They may have been on a fixed term contract and no jobs dovetailed from that contract. They may have been on a recognised programme with a reputable operator where the T&C's would likely lend themselves to looking for something better or more stable. To this end, even the "500 hours" is likely to be flexible.

The other side of the coin, is those who have bought experience with operators with a less savoury flavour. Those whose background is inconsistent, patchy or difficult to verify. Each company will likely have their own contenders for that list, but it isn't difficult to guess many of the names that are likely to be common. Buying "500 hours" needs (as with everything else) to be considered carefully. I am not aware of any airlines whose recruiters sit by the letterbox waiting for somebody with "500 hours" to apply. Such low experience is (if it is considered at all,) going to be looked at carefully, and the reasons for it need to be both obvious and attractive.

[Nuovomondo]

Bealzebub ,
thank you for your accurate analysis and contribution.
-Buying "500 hours" needs (as with everything else) to be considered carefully-
is the key sentence.

bye-

[jaguar1223]

the 500h is a local CAA requirements in most countries for the issuance of a license validation

[Nuovomondo]

jaguar1223,

As far as I know there's no EASA CAA requirements about the validation on your license for a type rating with 500 hrs in any country.
Maybe am I wrong? What do you mean exactly?

thank you, bye.

[flyingdog]

Guys you have to realize the industry is taking advantage of the situation (if there was a real pilot shortage we would take advantage of ...) the more experienced pilots the cheaper insurance and operating costs ... simple ! the same as for your car ! some airlines/operator save money because your parents help you out to get the money fot TR then LT ! Is it fair ? No ! Should you do it ? No (if at some point after your P2F you get hired you will be annoyed by P2F candidates ... they will kick you out of your job ... do you deserve it ? even if I'm against P2F I would say NO but this will happen to you because in the future some pilots are going to think the same as you're thinking right now !
The reality is some guys are flying the jumbo because they worked hard for it and some others because they paid for it ... please remember that so far we'll all finish 6 feet under so do what you feel is the best for you and deal with it
and do what you want ...personnaly I don't care, I never paid for LT and I got good money for the future Am I being sarcastic ? NO you could do the same as I did and work ... quite hard I must say
all the best

[RVR800]

500 hours MINIMUM Multi-crew requirement for ATPL

[Nuovomondo]

Sorry..
!
Definitely right, RVR800...

JAA 500 multi crew for ATPL requirement.
So most companies put this 'gate' referring to that.

[jaguar1223]

nuovomondo

what I ment is , 500h + on type is considered as a skilled worker wich allow you to apply for the local CAA license validation and a work permit in order to work as an expat
I am talking about north /south America north Africa ..well the rest of the world , as for Europe am not sure how it does work there .

[jaguar1223]

RVR800

for an ATPL you don't need time on type at all nor multi crew
all what you need is some cross country , night flying and some multi time
1500 h all together

correct me if I am wrong

[redsnail]

Jaguar1223,
Some authorities require 500 hours multi pilot before issuing the ATPL, others don't.
Australia (CASA) does not require it, EASA (Europe) does. :)