Euro american school of aviation suspended

[seymoreskye]

Euro American School of Aviation, Inc. - EASA / JAR / JAA / CAA Flight Training Leader Private Pilot Commercial Pilot Airline Pilot Training Facility | Central Florida United States (http://www.flyoba.com/)

Just noticed this school in Florida has been suspended as of April and considering its supposedly bad reputation I am surprised it hasn't come up on here sooner.

Anyone any info as to why EASA has suspended their training?

Hope no guys have lost any money over there.

Here is the link direct from EASA website:

http://easa.europa.eu/approvals-and-standardisation/organisation-approvals/docs/FCL/EASA-List_of_restricted_and_invalid_ATO_certificates-22042013.pdf

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Why are they still advertising their EASA courses?
I sent them an email two weeks ago and they answered me as though nothing happened:ugh:

[seymoreskye]

Very strange, A friend tried to call them the last two days and nobody is picking up. It would be good to find out from current students on the situation.

[zondaracer]

I'm not going to speculate but sometimes schools lose their EASA certification if they lose their chief pilot or something else that prevents them from meeting the requirements. It could be temporary but it possibly could be permanent.

[BigGrecian]

If you are there or going there you have been warned - your training won't count.

I think this will be the beginning of the schools like this starting to see suspensions and revocations or school's giving up approvals. - the implementation of EASA is a big cultural shift.

Don't believe them (or any other school for that matter) on what they will say the problem is - until they are off that list they can't offer or train for EASA training. Once they are off that list your good to go - until then don't give them a penny!

I would imagine that the suspension is post inspection - all their staff are still in place so it's not that.

[seymoreskye]

With the new EASA standards/regulations, could it be that some school don't reach the standards so are therefore dropped?

[Graham@IDC]

BigGrecian is right. The European Aircrew Regulation Part-FCL and the accompanying EASA inspection is going to come as a huge shock to many schools. Not all of them will pass it. Similarly I wouldn't be surprised if several of them decide that it's just too painful to go through the process of compliance and give up offering a European licence.

You need to research your American school VERY carefully before deciding to part with your cash.

Start by asking them when its inspection is due. If it's already had it then ask to see their ATO certificate.

[I'll Be Realistic]

You need to research your American school VERY carefully before deciding to part with your cash.

You are correct with that Graham, but that goes for any school. Let's not forget Cabair or PTC. Just how short are our memories?

You also imply that US schools are less capable of meeting EASA requirements. Any evidence to support that? As EASA is based on European Law, perhaps the CAA will no longer be the over riding authority or the highest standard. Therefore the schools approved overseas will be approved to the letter of the law and the 'old-boys' club will not apply.

[Shoelace]

Whatever is going on with Euro American School of Aviation, you can be sure that it has much to do with the JAA to EASA transition. Everyone anticipated that there would be problems whilst the authority got itself sorted...and this is just one of them: actioning additional bureaucracy. I think it is a disgrace that a long established provider might become the victim of poor untimely management...if this is the case.
An earlier post on this thread mentions that EASA should have been shut down long ago?? On what grounds do you base such a damaging statement?
I know of at least two training providers in the UK that have recently shut down over night and took everyones money. One of those providers closed it's doors overnight and opened another office at the same aerodrome under a new name loosing all money held in account by students. Don't forget that this school has been running for over 22years through thick and thin and never made such a filthy move.
I trained there and passed PPL, and had a great experience...going on to fly in the UK with as much or as little skill as any uk trained private pilot. Aircraft were in great condition, training was very good(I had an ex-embry pilot)...and I was able to leave with my PPL in 7 weeks...not forgetting the financial saving.
Patience is needed across the board whilst this new bureaucracy is put in to place.

[Graham@IDC]

Quite right let's not forget those two. I suspect that I lost more than most from those two shambles. So much for the aviation authorities duty/remit to monitor the financial health of the institutions they approve. I think the UK CAA's advice (only to pay for training using a credit card) is probably right.

I'm not implying in any way that US schools are less capable, just perhaps less inclined to jump through the b*s hoops that EASA is erecting. Like most EU bureaucracies EASA seems oblivious to the realities of industry. The FAA is far more pragmatic. Furthermore EASA's inspection fees are absurdly high. If I were cynical I might suspect that this is good old fashioned European protectionism at work.

Yes, I have personal experience of the pain some of these schools are having inflicted on them. For example in one recent EASA inspection (not run by anyone from the UK CAA) the inspector required the school to have classroom slides ONLY containing material from the books they use. So, goodbye to useful clips from YouTube, instructor's additional photos etc.

If that's good training practice I'll eat my Part-FCL.

[2skyhigh]

Euro American School of Aviation in Ormon Beach suspended since April 19, 2013

thanks....but too late, many of my fellow students arrived in May....and had to leave without licenses
they did not even tell us when we arrived.....what a waste of time, energy and money....other schools might not even accept exams from a suspended school
...we should sue them!!!
for a class-action lawsuit we would need more participants and names of hurt students
at least we should write to all the editors of the magazines they place their ads

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

Wait wait... they conducted flight training regardless and let you know of their suspension only at the moment you should've taken your exam???

I heard that they are a bunch of scammers but that's incredible...

[fa2fi]

The link has expired. Is there an up to date one?

[fa2fi]

Here's the latest updated 03/06/13

http://www.easa.europa.eu/approvals-and-standardisation/organisation-approvals/docs/FCL/EASA-List_of_restricted_and_invalid_ATO_certificates-03062013.pdf

So if they have been training whilst suspended what are the consequences for the school? I suspect nothing. And the ones who'll be punished will be the students (as always) who'll return home with an expensive yet worthless piece of paper.

Remember never pay up front.

[slawek_s]

And the ones who'll be punished will be the students (as always) who'll return home with an expensive yet worthless piece of paper. I suspect they might even not get "an expensive yet worthless piece of paper" and it might not be easy to get their money back.

There is an FTO in Warsaw, Poland - FTO Ventum Air - which is on the market little over 4 years (they got their first planes about 2 years ago) and have already been sued at least 17 times by former students and cooperating companies. Have a look at my last post in a thread about FTO Ventum Air - http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/427928-ventum-air-merged-8.html#post7880194 They still run and accept students.

Never, ever pay anything before you read about the school on the Internet and (preferably) contact former students. Don't expect to visit school, talk to current students and find truth about the school - at some schools, current students will never tell you truth - they might be afraid to do so because of consequences they might pay for doing so. Also - NEVER pay the full amount up front. ALWAYS pay in small installments - this way, in case your contract gets cancelled, you will not loose a lot of money.

[EASA VICTIM]

For those of you that don't already know, yes this school has their ATO Certificate suspended. But Kyle Anderson doesn't care about that. All he cares about is himself and his other management buddies. If you're the type of person who likes to travel across the world and give money away then this school is exactly the place to learn how to fly. Just walk up to Kyle, hand him a check, then turn around, drop your pants and bend over because he is about to change your life. But don't take my word for it, ask any one of the students that have been there in the past few months. Furthermore, they have been advertising glass cockpits and the "newest" model of Cessna 150s. Sorry to burst your bubble but none of the aircraft have updated avionics and the newest model came out over 30 years ago. Also, this so called "Director of Maintenance" is completely unqualified to hold that position. Do some research and you'll find that John Broderick just got his A&P licence at the beginninng of this year yet has been in charge for a lot longer. On top of that, he never went to any sort of trade school to learn how to work on airplanes.Back or front, you decide. I challenge all of you to bring down fire and every government agency upon this organization in an attempt to prevent them from conducting shady business. And here is a couple bullet points to get you started:

John Broderick is signing off aircraft engines as overhauled when he is not doing the work himself... illegal
Adrian Thompson signs off Annual Inspections without ever touching the aircraft. This type of fradulent neglact is extremely dangerous for anyone who has ever flown an aircraft that he has signed... very very illegal
Here is a link to the suspension page:
http://easa.europa.eu/approvals-and-standardisation/organisation-approvals/docs/FCL/EASA-List_of_restricted_and_invalid_ATO_certificates-01072013.pdf

[victormalmborg]

Euro School of Aviation, FLYEASA, Ormond Beach Aviation..A school with many names due to various reasons.

I'm posting this because I want to give anyone, who is considering coming to Euro School of Aviation for flight training, a warning, heads up and a word of advise!

DO NOT COME TO Euro School of Aviation!

They're not an approved flight school by JAA/EASA(European Aviation Safety Agency) any more. In other words, they got their license suspended a couple of months ago and can no longer issue any JAA/EASA licenses or certificates.
Of course, in true Euro American School of Aviation spirit, this doesn't stop them from enrolling students without telling them about this "minor detail".

Flying at EASA is always an adventure, especially in their Cessna 150's. The few instruments they do feature never works and you'll more than often have to return early due to a rough running engine or some other exiting problem.
The ground school isn't better, ofcourse I can only speak for the ATPL course but I think that's the most important one.
It is provided by CATS, crazy expensive, you're promised three half day lectures a week but you should be lucky if you get one. Other than that all the price includes is access to a terrible website.

I could go on like this for hours but I think everyone get my point by now.
The world of aviation is awesome but not at Euro American School of Aviation. Rumors say that they'll probably close down or go out of business soon, so whatever you do do not invest your time and money here!!!

[selfin]

Easa Victim,

Have you gathered supporting evidence for those claims?

[dera]

Are they able to provide Part 61 FAA training still?

[Gomrath]

Are they able to provide Part 61 FAA training still?

Even if they are able to continue to provide Part 61 - they will still need to sponsor your visa so you should check into that.
However, you have your pick of a large number of flights schools in the US to choose from.

[dera]

I am currently in Florida, with my M1 Visa, and have already paid a few thousands towards my PPL. Havent started my training yet. Since I do not trust they can train me towards a EASA license, I think I'm going to cut my losses and fly FAA PPL with them, and then hour build and convert. I do not believe I will see a penny of my money if I request a refund.
I think this way I would lose the least, hour building the required hours for EASA conversion is not a massive problem for me.

[dera]

Im here until end of August, so I hope I have atleast time to come out with a FAA PPL. I was dumb and paid a bit too much in advance before finding out about the suspension (they only told about it after directly asking about it).

mjustiniano, are you in Ormond area now?

[Gomrath]

Im here until end of August, so I hope I have atleast time to come out with a FAA PPL. I was dumb and paid a bit too much in advance before finding out about the suspension (they only told about it after directly asking about it).

You would be well advised to check on the qualifications of your Instructor especially if s/he is not a US citizen. Ask to see licenses and qualifications and also ensure that you check on their immigration status.
This applies to any School in the US.
You are the customer and have that right. It is your money at the end of the day.

[fa2fi]

I'd have thought they'd have been on here to say something. They used to have an account under the user name of "OBA". In my opinion this situation is terrible.

[nickpatel19]

Can someone please help me, I booked my slot in May and I've just been told that the training licence has been revoked at Fly EASA, I've already booked the flights and got my visa, can someone advise me on what to do, can I transfer to another flight school e.g. Pan Am or EFT or can I do my training in FAA and then covert to JAA/EASA at a later date?

[BigGrecian]

Surely you can't be seriously considering training there for the FAA.

You can convert but it requires CAA authority as it is an Article 8 conversion under EASA - so you can't just pitch up at a school and convert anymore under the new laws.

The bigger problem will be the low quality of training they are known for and the conversion will become expensive.

I think Pan Am has the grand total of one EASA Instructor if that helps and they do all their training FAA then convert people so I'm thinking Pan Am won't be able to help you with your original plan.

EFT - you'll be praying for a cancellation at such short notice.

[dera]

I disagree about the quality of training. So far the level of training I have received has been very good. I have been flying with KR and CD, and have nothing but good to say about them.

There is generally a very bad mood amongst the students in the school at the moment with the EASA issue, but nobody has said anything negative about the level of training or most people who work here.

If you come over, the level of training will be good, the availability of planes is excellent, but only expect to come out with a FAA PPL.

Pay a bit more and do it on the PA28s, the Cessnas are godawful.

For conversion, some people who came for JAA and only got FAA, are going to Naples who apparently are doing the conversion after resitting all written exams, doing a few hours, and a skill test. I do not know the exact ins and outs of this though. Apparently the cost is somewhere between 1-2kUSD. I decided to "downgrade" to FAA, I decided that is the option that gives me the least stress about things.

[BigGrecian]

Your not in any position to judge the standard - as you have nothing to compare it too. Ask around in your home country about the reputation and read PPrune and you'll then have something to compare it to - the general comments are not positive - think about this why do the majority of their students not return for the CPL - other than not being approved?

For conversion, some people who came for JAA and only got FAA, are going to Naples who apparently are doing the conversion after resitting all written exams, doing a few hours, and a skill test. I do not know the exact ins and outs of this though. Apparently the cost is somewhere between 1-2kUSD. I decided to "downgrade" to FAA, I decided that is the option that gives me the least stress about things.

Here in lies the next problem - did Naples get the written authority from the UK CAA under Article 8 of part FCL?

You can't just walk into a school and do a conversion anymore you must have written permission from a national aviation authority. Without this your training is worthless.

They may have just jumped from one school which is suspended - to one which is not equipped and upto date on the EASA regulations to provide the type of training required and then get their licence application rejected at a later date.

They should have learnt their lesson and had some personal responsibility but I'm prepared to bet otherwise....I'm prepared to bet they'll be able to add a second school to the list of those that took their money for providing a service they can't legally provide.

[fa2fi]

People are seriously considering travelling despite what has been said. People need to have a serious think. Is it more cost effective to forfeit the cancellation fee. Or is it better to go over pay all your money, sit an intensive course for a potentially worthless piece of paper. Honestly I do worry.

[dera]

Your not in any position to judge the standard - as you have nothing to compare it too. Ask around in your home country about the reputation and read PPrune and you'll then have something to compare it to - the general comments are not positive - think about this why do the majority of their students not return for the CPL - other than not being approved?

And you're not in any position to assume I have nothing to compare it to. This is my third time I've started a PPL course, 2 first ones were with old "legacy" flight schools in Europe. I quit both times because I was not happy with what I was receiving service and quality-of-trainingwise.

I'm far from an apologist here, I do not agree at all with the way they have handled this, and I am a victim of this myself as well. But so far anyone who actually is here at the moment whom I've talked with has been happy with the instructors and other ground staff.

As I said, I made the decision to do the FAA PPL, it was not what I came here for, and its pretty darn far from ideal. But after weighing pros and cons, I ended up in a conclusion that it is the best way to get out of this sh*t mess I ended up in.

Anyone considering traveling should do the same consideration, and act accordingly. I was already knee deep in non-refundable travel plans (I rented a beach condo for this project) when this poop hit the fan, and after getting over the initial disappointment(disappointment being a mild word here), I cannot fault the actual product, which is flight training.

[BigGrecian]

Is it more cost effective to forfeit the cancellation fee

I'm not a contract lawyer but if the school can't provide the course you booked on - then they can't charge a cancellation fee. Don't let them intimidate you otherwise. It's not you cancelling - they are cancelling your course because they can't provide it.

I've heard their contract is 20+ pages but does it really say - "If we are unable to provide the course you booked on you will still forefeit the deposit and any costs paid" - I hope not!

Take it up with your credit card, or get a lawyer - this is an easy win - there is no reason for anyone to lose any money at the school and a good lawyer should be able to get any deposits on housing etc back for you.

[slawek_s]

I've heard their contract is 20+ pages but does it really say - "If we are unable to provide the course you booked on you will still forefeit the deposit and any costs paid" - I hope not!Even if there isn't such statement in the contract they might still want to steal your money this way. Similar situation happened to me with a school in Poland - FTO Ventum Air, Located @ EPBC, Warsaw. In the contract it states that if I cancel the contract, I'll have to pay 10% cancellation fee. In my case, Ventum Air cancelled the contract, stated in the cancellation document they will not charge any cancellation fee, but finally charged me these 10% + VAT.... which turned out to be over $6000. They didn't even try to explain it in any way.... no wonder - one cannot rationally explain something that is against the law. :ugh:I had to sue them to try to get my money back (there is no court order yet). Of course, I'm not the only one it such situation.

I'm afraid the same will happen to those who trusted Euro American School of Aviation with their money. You'll have to sue them to get your money back :( Hope you decide to do so, even though you would have to do it in another country. Best of luck!

[jez d]

From the UK CAA press office:


EASA SUSPENDS FLIGHT TRAINING SCHOOL

The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has been informed by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) that it suspended the pilot training approval of Euro American School of Aviation, based in Florida, (UK/FTO-226) on the 19 April 2013. The suspension of the approval means that the school cannot provide theoretical knowledge instruction or flight training towards the issue of any European pilots licence, rating or certificate from that date forward.

Student pilots receiving theoretical knowledge and/or flight training from Euro American School of Aviation for the issue of an EU Part-FCL licence, rating or certificate are advised that:

·if the student intends to apply to the UK for a pilot licence, rating or certificate the UK CAA is unable to accept any theoretical knowledge training or flight training provided to them by Euro American School of Aviation after the 19 April 2013;

·if the student intends to apply to any other country for a Part-FCL licence, rating or certificate they should contact that State for advice.

Student pilots whose state of licence issue is to be the UK CAA and who wish to continue their training towards gaining an EU licence, rating or certificate, must continue their training at another school that is permitted to provide that training. To retain credit for the training received at Euro American School of Aviation on or before 19 April 2013 the students must request the transfer of their training records from Euro American School of Aviation inc to their chosen alternative school. For more information on transferring training records please see CAP 804, Section 4, Part L, Appendix 3, Page 1 (p.365)www.caa.co.uk/cap804 (http://www.caa.co.uk/cap804)
As well as needing to change their training provider, applicants for an EU licence, rating or certificate must also ensure that all required theoretical knowledge examinations, training and testing are valid, and undertaken within the relevant time limits.

[mad_jock]

Does anyone know the actual reason for getting there approval removed?

I notice as well that it wasn't the CAA that pulled it either it was someone else from EASA.

I wonder what FOI request to the CAA would bring in relation to the number of complaints about the place without anything being done.

[BillieBob]

I notice as well that it wasn't the CAA that pulled it either it was someone else from EASA. Hardly surprising since EASA and not the CAA is now responsible for the approval of all organisations with their main place of business outside the EU.

[mad_jock]

well that's the first thing positive that EASA have done.

[Cows getting bigger]

Anyone who wants to discuss transfer back to a EASA ATO crediting their pre-19 April training is most welcome to drop me a pm.

[boyztoyz]

I do think that this is the start of many. Compliance with the new EASA regs is something that has been brought up many times, and as it stands at the moment many of the schools in the UK with either a RTF approval will find it hard to comply with the new regs. A survey posted in "the other place" showed that over 40% of UK TF schools were NOT planning to continue when the new regs come in. The FAA regs are far less demanding. This will have a real effect on the training scene.

In relation to students loosing money, whilst I have do feel their pain, the schools whether in the UK or USA are not having an easy time of it. Dropped into one school recently to renew my IR and was told that they had lost over £9000 recently with people flying and then not paying. They were thinking about starting a policy of you must have paid £250 upfront before you fly.

One guy had done 5 hours at one school- paid with a dodgy card, gone to another school and done the same, and then had done it a third time to him. Result was three schools out of pocket to tune of the best part of £3000!.

I am not defending EASA, but just saying that there are two sides to it all. Often when a school goes down the pan it is not just the students that lose, but the instructors, ground staff, maint shops etc etc.

[suraci]

OBA / EASA closing. Adrian has posted a message on their website. Suspect other training schools will also close.

[ConcernedIR]

Although it's sad for everyone involved, I think Adrian must be the only person surprised by this.

He is right though, more schools will close, thing is I'm not at all surprised they were one of the first and neither will many people be give their checkered history which more than implies they weren't up to the task and the "cheap" schools like flyEASA / OBA had no chance in the first place - as that's not what the "future" is about.

[White wing]

Euro American whatever is closing? Really?

Oh... they were so honest tough. Very very sad that they can't steal and lie anymore.

Other than the fact that after 3 days my ground instructor almost died in a crash with a student...

Maintenance were guys learning from Embry riddle ...

They were sucking money from the account like water ....

They were not respecting the schedules in any way...

They staff were in a constant fight...

The planes were fresh painted , and a junk inside ( like the school after all...)

just other than this....

I did part of my licenses there , thanks god after accidents incidents engine failures , engine fire on the runway which I saw with my own eyes , there was just heavy injured that lost their medical , and ( I think , I hope) no one died.


Guys USA is still the best place in the world for get the licenses , but you have to take from others experience if you don't want to have surprises.


I then finished my licenses in another school , were they were honest and did my IR in the minimum hours , never been charged for any reason , never had problem with the better equipped and performing plane , never had to pay more , and they respected the time schedule.

This model can be called a "Flight school".

All the other just have an amazing website , saying " do the pilot! do the pilot! is the best job in the world and you will be captain in 6 months with us at half price!!!! we are the best school in whateverland , come!!! "

[B2N2]

Visa's can be easily transferred to other schools.
So even if you have a ticket booked and visa's in your passport you still DO NOT need to go there.
As long as you have not paid them you do not need or want to do your FAA training there.
Your money will not keep the organization afloat long enough for you to finish training. It is a sinking ship.
Go somewhere else.
Plenty of schools that will be happy to train you the correct way.
Send me a PM if you need recommendations.
Honestly this should have happenend 10 years ago.

[maybebrothers]

I am so happy they have been shut down.

I was cheated by Adrian Thompson when I went there for training. He is an arrogant, rude individual with no morals.

I witnessed an examiner altering one student's Nav' exam paper so he could pass. We were left unattended during an exam and everyone was exchanging correct answers.

Whilst I was there there were TWO engine failures in three weeks.

What a shambles!

[Contacttower]

I won't be shedding any tears over OBA's demise but I do wonder can anyone give some more detail about what lack of compliance this was based on?

I am concerned that while OBA may have deserved this EASA are coming down very hard on a lot of flight training organisations with little regard for their viability or the impact of their regulation on them.

I suspect they are also more likely to make life difficult for the US based EASA approved schools - for the same reason they don't like the R66 and all the other protectionist rubbish they have come up with over the years.

[XL319]

I have to agree with maybebrothers....Adrian talked to students like something he brought in off the street, full of his own importance and with no manners!

The accomodation was good, but safety was a major issue....several aircraft fires, aircraft emergency landing!!! and surprise charges when you arrived in Florida.

I actuallyhad to return home after 3 weeks due to a family death and Adrian helped himself to 25% of my course fee. The man has no morals.

I certainly would not have been going back there and I have to say I'm glad he's been shut down.

[BigGrecian]

I actuallyhad to return home after 3 weeks due to a family death and Adrian helped himself to 25% of my course fee. The man has no morals.

Many thinks Adrian did was immoral. This I don't actually see a problem with.

No disrespect is meant by this and I'm just making a general statement but Flight Training should come with a warning that your relatives may pass whilst completing flight training because I have seen dozens have students have sudden family deaths and leave all of a sudden when the going got tough. You paid rock bottom prices at flyEASA and that meant if you dropped out he would have been out of pocket as the prices are based on the aircraft flying all the time- why should that cost be passed onto other students? Despite what people think margins are slim in flight training and one or two of these a month would easily slide most flight schools into the red.

[XL319]

You have your opinion and i respect that however the going never got tough, i passed my PPL on first attempt and it was the hour building part which I couldn't complete. I found Adrian very uncompromising and because of my experience I wouldn't go back to the US to do any flying training.
P.S. it was OBA when I was there!

[B2N2]

and because of my experience I wouldn't go back to the US to do any flying training.


That is a shame because OBA/EASA is/was in no shape or form representative of flight training in the United States.

[mad_jock]

I think quite a few people will have a smile on there faces with that statement on adrians website.

I suspect though that his usual methods won't work easa.

I to am very interested in the reasons for having it pulled. I suspect that we will see the big schools pulling out as well over the next couple of years.

I know lots of people over the years complained to the CAA about the place.

Third hand I was told that someone had even taped one of the famous RT tests that adrian used. With the bangs on the wall and C words included.

Nothing was ever done. Always the reply was " you need to provide evidence" and when you did they just didn't respond or said it wasn't of any use.

[CrabbitOldBugger]

Central Fla. flight school closes; license revoked (http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2013-08-01/Central-Fla-flight-school-closes-license-revoked#.UfutTZKzeYY)

[peregrineh]

Learnt here in 2009, until I lost my temper with their rudeness, dishonestly etc - walked away and completed at White Waltham leaving 2kusd in their coffers!

While there was some very good aspects to the school - ie a couple of the individual teachers were more than decent, the whole place smacked of unprofessionalism. An example the company staff bitched about each other in front of the students - completely unacceptable.

I did enjoy my time there - I was a lucky one with a decent teacher but the administration were just jokes and in the end I could not stand them any more.

I did enjoy my friend head over there to do his IMC - on completion of his training he was told that there was not an IMC qualified examiner - so left money on the table and had to finish up in the UK.

You never got a straight answer and the hidden costs and hoops that they made you jump through to get more hours out of you were laughable!
Some of the tales on this forum are shocking!

[dera]

Like I said earlier, I had no complaints about the school and the training itself. I enjoyed my (short) time there, and alot of people working there said that the school was working better and was more organized than ever. I thought it worked perfectly, until they decided to close the doors.
The staff, instructors and dispatch were more than happy to let us fly as much as we could during the last week. Unfortunately I didnt have time to do my checkride so I have to arrange this myself.
Now just waiting for the promised refund. I hope the management doesn't think I will move on and forget about it.

[fa2fi]

Good luck getting your money back!

[White wing]

<< Now just waiting for the promised refund. I hope the management doesn't think I will move on and forget about it. >>



Haha yeah , the promised refund. That promise is a famous legend that will never become true.

I know 10-15 student ripped off with the same "promise"

I guess now you will discover the dark side of those fake smiles.

[up and away]

I have also been a victim of the EASA/flyEASA debacle, I was training there when the licence was suspended, i then did my skills test out there and have now been told that I have to re-do it. If anyone else on here was as well, can you please PM me. At least then we can try and work out as a group if there is a course of action that we can take!

[dera]

I'm already working with plan B in another school.

I am more than happy to spend a substantial amount of time, effort and resources into resolving this matter.

Again, the level of training I received was great, the surprise closure of the school, that is another matter.

[dera]

Well, as expected, FlyEASA has not refunded me even though I gave them an offer, which I thought was more that reasonable (and about plan B, I now have my PPL in my pocket).

Anyway,

I will offer a handsome reward for anyone (via PayPal), who will give me any information that will lead into me finding Mr. Adrian Thompson. Phone numbers, home addresses, anything usable. Let me know what you have. If it is helpful, I will pay for that information.

[mad_jock]

I hate to say it but..

Your contract is with the school company not with the person.

If the company has been wound up you can only be added to the list of people owed. And once the assets have been sold you get a percentage of what's owed.

Chasing AT won't get you anywhere and will only cost you money and get you even more hacked off.

Its standard practise to fob people off until the company files bankruptcy because the owners know as soon as they have filed that's them in the clear and its in the hands of the administrators and not there problem.

If you have payed by credit card you may be able to apply to get some money back through the CC protection schemes (I don't know how it works with Finnish CC's) . But if you have payed by wire transfer you are stuffed.

This is the reason why on here we say time and time again never pay up front for training what ever the discount.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Never say never MJ,

We have heard in the past of unusual payment destinations.

[mad_jock]

Yes we have but I would suggest AT isn't in the same league as those operators.

As much as I don't like the man he is quite an intelligent operator who knows what he can and can't do and how to cover his arse.

It wouldn't be fair to give any wannabie the idea that it will be likely possible to recover any money from the situation.

If they with the knowledge that its unlikely still want to chase him for annoyance, ****s and giggles fair enough. But if they are chucking good money after bad its unfair not to warn them what they are getting into and the likelihood of success.

[dera]

Fair warnings, I appreciate the input.

I'm not after a large amount of money, about 2000USD, but even if I never see a penny of that money, its not the end of the world for me.

I'm willing to spend money to have a "meeting" with AT, explaining this time he stole money from the wrong person.

[Wilcoroger]

I am one of those who did his skill test 2 days after Easa lost their license. And CAA UK is not issuing our licenses although most of us finished the training well before the 19th of April. If there are other people in the same situation with me, please pvt me.
Also, EASA owes me money as well and there is no way to contact them, so what they say about refunding the moneys is again another lie.
Apart from those, I have to admit that I loved my time over there. It was such a friendly school. No matter what others say on this form, safety always came first there. The aircrafts were very well maintained and in good condition. Instructors were so helpful and professional. Elizabeth, the chief Pilot, was the best you could have ever got in any school. She was always there if you had any questions, very willing to help and most important of all, very strict when it came to safety, so please do not believe in what others say.
Many people did not finish the training on time over there but come on guys, it was not only the schools fault. I can easily say 4 days out of 5 trainees kept partying, calling in sick the next morning, and bla bla bla.
In my opinion, the only problem with the school was Adrian Thompson. He is the rudest person you can ever see in your entire life. Everybody hated him. Never heard even a single person saying a single good thing about him. He always treated us as if we were his slaves. Totally forgot the reason he had the company running was because we paid him. If it was Elizabeth and Kyle taking all the decisions and managing the school, trust me flyeasa would be the best school in not only USA, but also the world.
I am sure Mr Thompson reads all these comments as well. So Mr Thomson, please prove I am wrong and go and do something about our licenses and give us our money back. I am sure it is not so difficult for you.
If there is anyone on here in the same situation with me, please pvt me. Am sure there is something we can do. It is not our fault if EASA suspends flyeasas liecence. When we all went there, Flyeasa had a valid license and EASA should have given some notice before they suspend it.

[CrabbitOldBugger]

EURO AMERICAN SCHOOL OF AVIATION LIMITED
84 CONEY PARK
HARROGATE ROAD
LEEDS
YORKSHIRE
LS19 7XS
Company No. 06129785

Source: Companies House (http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk)

Euro American School of Aviation, Inc. in Ormond Beach FL - Company Profile (http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Ormond-Beach/euro-american-school-of-aviation-inc-5077970.aspx)

[dera]

Cool. Will pay a visit.

[dera]

Thankfully, I got my PPL sorted in the end. It cost me about 1500usd more so not the end of the world. I had about 2k in my account. I requested that 1500 back from AT which I think is more than fair, those were the costs I had, I did not put any price for the time and frustration caused by this.

This will come out the wrong way I know it, but for me it is not about the money. I'm happy to use alot of resources to make him understand he is stealing from the wrong person this time.
Paying 1500USD to me to the bank account I have given him would be alot cheaper for him than other options.

I have a few addresses already, and I appreciate any input on his current whereabouts.
I'm around the Yorkshire area now for a few weeks so I have plenty of time to find him.

With regards to wilcoroger, I could not agree more with your experiences. The school worked very well, I enjoyed my time there, and I had no complaints about the school or the instructors.

[slawek_s]

dera - don't give up, I hope you'll get you money back;

I thought such things are only possible in less developed countries (f.i. Poland - use the search option to find my posts about Ventum Air) but now I can see it's also possible in other countries. FTO Ventum Air lost numerous court cases last year, returned money and still pays the debts made by former President (who resigned within 60 days of filing my court suit). I'm the one who advised many to sue them instead of giving up. Going to court is the only way to stop such FTOs or scumbags who run them from doing what their doing.

Advice for all of you who feel you've been cheated by FTO you trusted with your money: please do not give up thinking "it's only couple thousand bucks" - if you don't try to get your money back and inform future students about your problems, they'll think they can do it over and over, each time with more money involved. What is not a substantial amount of money for you today, can be such for others.

Good luck!

[Stianti]

Hi everyone!
I'm also a victim of Euro american school of Aviataion based in Ormond Beach, Florida.
I started my ppl there and I'm not able to contact them anymore.
Without the training records it seems very
hard to get a credit by other ATO also for the students who trained before April the 19th. 2013.
Do someone of you have the adresses of some instructor or the chance to contact them?
Do you think we should ask those records to theEuropean Aviation Safety Agency (http://www.google.it/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.easa.eu.int%2F&ei=uWUgUrfNK8nKswbXxIDICw&usg=AFQjCNH2LocE7gTX9r93G74pQzGjyofHqg&sig2=WOmNa86JdBuLmgso7kFNtg&bvm=bv.51495398,d.Yms) and involve the agency for having some response.
Thank you.

[BA123]

For any ex students who wish to speak to a previous instructor feel free to PM :ok:

[Thrush]

If anyone is interested the UK CAA have issued an IN on this issue:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/sarg-IN_Training%20and%20Testingv1_300913.pdf

As an experienced Examiner I had cause to write to the CAA in about 1998 about Adrian Thompson and my concerns about Ormond Beach Aviation OBA. The reply I received was unbelievably negative. They did not appear to give a toss.

So he continued. :ugh:

[40KTSOFFOG]

Not familiar with this particular Forum but just received this Information Notice from the CAA regarding this training school. It might have a considerable impact on individuals who trained at this school.

Please pass it on!

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/sarg-IN_Training%20and%20Testingv1_300913.pdf

[GAZ45]

Having read this entire thread I felt the need to post even though most of what I am about to say has already been said. But I think it’s important to vent my experience and try my best to turn away people who are still thinking of going here.

I went to this school a few years back - at this point the place was decent enough to get a PPL. The instruction was average/great dependant on instructor. More importantly, at this point the school seemed to be managed better. I actually really enjoyed my time there then, and learnt alot.

I got my JAA PPL and then returned a year later to build some flight time. At that point the school was in tatters. The management was so uptight that flying in wind was practically disallowed. The accommodation was horrendous – there were rats living within the school accommodation (I have evidence to prove this), and the daughter of the accommodation manager was stealing money from the student’s bedrooms. Plentiful symptoms of poor aircraft maintenance/operation were present – many PPL students were being told to ignore blatant signs of spark plug fouling and rough idling as just “the engine being cold”. The school teaches awful standards of airmanship, and unless you’re on the ball with your studies and can spot dangers with the aircraft, then quite frankly you will be a danger to yourself and others in the sky.

The owner may be Adrian Thompson, but don’t underestimate Kyle Andrews influence throughout the school (Im pretty sure he owns a portion of the company) and be sure, they will happily take any cash they can get for future training as if nothing has happened and you wont get it back. They both operate the place to gain money for nothing – and that’s it. I left around 6 hours of time there from my last visit and vowed never to set foot there again. I have tried to get my money back but have just accepted that I won’t be seeing it again. I just thank god I didn’t deposit a large chunk of money with them.

I feel sorry for current students, and actually feel sorry for most of the instructors who are actually just decent pilots trying to earn a living and get their careers off the ground.

Dont go there!

[GAZ45]

Wilcoroger,
I don’t usually embark on disagreeing with people on Pprune, but most of what you have said is rubbish!

You sing the schools praises with ‘if’s and but’s’, yet you have spent your money and don’t have a PPL to show for it?!

“The aircrafts were very well maintained and in good condition.”
Pah! I’ve been to schools in the UK and US since then and flown a lot – EASA planes are awful and always have been! Maybe you will realise that when you use a better school.

I have no issues with the instruction – as you said, Liz is great and most of the instructors are too.

“If it was Elizabeth and Kyle taking all the decisions and managing the school, trust me flyeasa would be the best school in not only USA, but also the world.”
This is a joke, right?
Kyle basically does run the place. He deals with everything and co-ordinates with Adrian . Most the ‘fees’ they charge are made up. They charge $100 to issue your FAA PPL for hours building – the service is free courtesy of the FAA. You just turn up at a FSDO and give them the paperwork. The ‘cleaning fee’ – nothing was cleaned when I was there. Things were stolen, not cleaned. As for instruction its average – I’ve learnt things in some fantastic schools since (that were cheaper!) with brilliant instructors.... but I guess that is something you might realise when you fly elsewhere. I could go on...

“It is not our fault if EASA suspends flyeasas liecence. When we all went there, Flyeasa had a valid license and EASA should have given some notice before they suspend it.”
I wonder if Kyle knew about the suspension a long time before you did? I think we know the answer to that.

I don’t wish to launch an angry attack on what you have said, but the place needs to be avoided at all costs and the world of aviation is better off without it.

Good luck, and hopefully you'll get your PPL done.

[fa2fi]

A few posts are speaking about EASA in the present tense. Am I not correct in thinking the place is shut down conpletely?

Aircraft well maintained? That made me chuckle.

[Jaspervp]

Check out their site, flyeasa.com, I'm suprised it took so long!

[mad_jock]

Its not him. I think that company has been going for years.

It looks like he has completely sold up and sold the domain name as well.

Someone needs to check the local courts to see if the base company's have been wound up.

[fa2fi]

Yeah Sunrise has a reputation for playing by the booking, providing quality tuition, having a safe fleet, operating legally, not ripping people off and treating people like dirt. They're very different to AT's flying circus.