Staish & Sqdn OC

[beerdrinker]

From Last week's Flight:

An article about 11 Sqdn taking part in Red Flag includes the sentence "says 11 Sqn and RAF Conningsby station commander Grp Capt Johnny Springer."

Squadron Boss and Staish?

[Fareastdriver]

I suppose as station commander he is the overall squadron boss as his head could be on the block as well.

[Wander00]

Thought this was going to be a thread about Staishs and Sqn Cdrs being at odds - seen that a few times - who remembers B......k, early 80s!

[TurbineTooHot]

Nope, he's the Staish, and was the Brit Detco at Flag.

Not OC XI however. It was lazy reporting.

[Wander00]

TTH - is that what they call "Force Commander" these days? A bit esoteric for a reporter - and it has to be dumbed down so the average reader can comprehend. Average reading age required for the DT used to be 12-ish, ISTR. Flight probably similar, I guess.

[Onceapilot]

Is there a "Force" to command ?:ooh:

OAP

[skippedonce]

W00,
No, Air Cdre Gary Waterfall is the Typhoon Force Comd, who's HQ is collocated at Coningsby on Johnny's station. This was all part of the rustication from HQ Air which moved the 1* staff officers out of 1Gp and made them Force Commanders, thereby increasing the 1* head count by 5 as a great way to save money and streamline the RAF as redundancies were going through!:suspect:

[London Eye]

Skippedonce,

So if it is rustication and moves the 1* staff officers out of 1Gp how does it increase the star count by 5 ???

LE

[Chugalug2]

It has always struck me as ironic that the lowly titles of Squadron and Station Commander belie the fact that they are the only permanent operational commanders (as in directly commanding men and women subordinates) in the Royal Air Force. I'll concede that some beneath their level might well claim that as well, but cannot see that anyone above (ie outside the Station Gates) can claim the same. For all the exotic titles such as Air Officer Commanding (+/- in Chief) etc, the firmament above is filled by a bureaucratic food chain, not so much commanders as apparatchiks. That does not bode well for operational effectiveness, in my view.

[Pontius Navigator]

For all the exotic titles such as Air Officer Commanding (+/- in Chief) etc, the firmament above is filled by a bureaucratic food chain, not so much commanders as apparatchiks.

No even that. Our last 1* before we went green was a fair mover and shaker. He opened up restrictive rules, moved from an academic training stance to a tactical one and . . .

Nothing happened. The 'customer' carried on regardless as although both were in 1Gp they were on different CoC and continued in the same old same way.

Bit like QFE/QNH - change resisted at every step.

Now back in the old days AOC 1 Gp did actually command a Group. Would be captains were interviewed and appointed by the AOC. He could put a face to a name and had spoken with them. Today, in a much smaller air force is that still true?

[Chalfonts]

I remember Johnny Stringer on the Jag force, one of my favourite aircrew and a nice bloke too.

[skippedonce]

LE,

Sorry; my lack of clarity. It wasn't just 1Gp. The 'capability-based' 1*s from the two Gps (such as AO Combat Air) became more platform-based Force Cdrs:
Typhoon FC
Tornado FC
Permanent JFACC
etc
I can't remember the totality of the carve-up, but with this and the changes to the FinMilCap area, resulted in an additional 5 1*s created.

S.O.

[Wensleydale]

I thought that this story about the relationship of ex-squadron commanders who were now station commander may amuse you - it comes from the handwritten operations record book of No 8 Squadron, stationed in Khormaksar, Aden at the start of WW2.

On 10th June 1940, Italy declared war against the Allies. On the night of 13th June, 3Italian S81 bombers raided the British base at Khormaksar. One of the aircraft which had raided Aden had made a navigational error and landed in a wadi about 150 miles up the coasteast of Aden. So three 8 Squadron Vincents,now fully armed and bombed up, left Aden to capture the aircraft and its crew. The Vincents were led by Wing Commander Barrett who was the Station Commander at Khormaksar and had been the Squadron CO until the beginning of 1939. After searching for a little time, the Italian aircraft was located, and a message was dropped to it telling the crew to leave the aircraft and hoist a whiteflag. The Italians were only too anxious to comply and a white flag was flying almost immediately.

TheWing Commander then landed and, armed to the teeth, approached the Italians just in time to stop their wireless operator sending a message. Both the machine and its occupants were disarmed, and searched for anything worth appropriating before falling into official but equally avaricious hands. The crew were then put into the Vincents and flown back to Aden.

Later,the Wing Commander with 2 other aircraft returned to the Italian machine with ground crew and petrol, taking with them the Italian navigator.

After spending the night there, the Wing Commander attempted to taxi the Italian S81to ground suitable for a take off. Having no brakes he attained such a speed that he decided to take off then and there, which he did to the astonishment of the airman who was marshalling him. The Vincents then left also, but when they arrived at Khormaksar they were surprised, and not a little concerned, to find that the worthy Station Commander was not there.

Eventually he was found. He had run out of petroland landed in the desert twenty miles north of Aden. First on the scene was the AOC who had taken a Vincent immediately he heard of the Wing Commander’s whereabouts. When he found the Italian machine he tried toland alongside and neatly turned the Vincent up onto its nose. It was fortunate that the landing was no worse since the Vincent was bombed up.

By this time, the Wing Commander was in poor shape. Being stranded in the desert for some time he was suffering from hunger, thirst, and nervous exhaustion. His only sustenance was from a bottle ofwhisky that happened to be on the aircraft, and from this he had liberally helped himself. Although taken for strictly medical reasons, the results on an empty stomach were unusual for an officer of his standing. It was in such a state that he was found by the AOC. A W/T message was sent back to Aden and the AOC’s car was sent to the rescue.

The next morning, in spite of attempts to dissuade him, the Wing Commander flew another Vincent out to the Italian S81.

There he landed and, not to be outdone by the AOC, he turned the aircraft right over onto its back. By this time, the S81 hadstuck into the sand up to its axles and the scene was one of utter devastation. In addition, the ground party sent out the night before had sunk into the soft sand in their vehicles on the way out.

Eventually the S81 was rescued and converted into a Squadron communications aircraft, but was of very little use.

http://www.8squadron.co.uk/history_images/AOCs_landing_lg.jpg