HMS Illustrious

[Stuffy]

Yesterday I went up to Greenwich to see HMS Illustrious.

How magnificent she looked.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/gallery/data/500/DSC_1134a.jpg

I shall upload some pictures with the Merlin. The helicopter looked rather large.

I could not get on the ship as they closed the queue at 12:30 !

Surely there is some life in the old girl yet ?

And the Ark !

[Not_a_boffin]

Plenty of life left in Lusty.

The Ark, not so much. She leaves for Turkey next week having been stripped and declassified.

It is somewhat disappointing that there does not yet appear to have been a serious attempt made to preserve Lusty - despite last years announcment that the MoD would be receptive to offers, given a viable proposal.

[Stuffy]

If it were up to me, which unfortunately it isn't. I would keep The Illustrious and Ark Royal until the new carriers become operational. It might even be possible to operate the F35 for training purposes?

I would be pleased to know who gets the 'kick-back' on the scrap metal?

[Not_a_boffin]

No. It wouldn't.

Not sure what you mean by "kickback"? The scrapper bids (ie he pays) to remove the ship from Naval base, dismantle it, dispose of all pollutants iaw relevant law and gets to sell the recovered metals to recover his labour and other costs and make a profit.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/68761/20120413_invincible_recycling_report_u.pdf

Or did you think we pay someone to take it away for us?

[Sandy Parts]

I wonder what will happen to the rather nifty geo-tracking satellite TV receiver the ship's company paid for and got installed? Used to enable UK TV to be piped throughout the ship no matter where in the world she sailed - great morale booster. Was also a great 'gotcha' on the EW recce test when asked to identy what was under the non-descript satcom type dome on the front deck area. Always admired their reading of the '2 drinks' rule - if you divide all the drinks you consumed by the total number of days on the trip and then add 2 for every 'cross-mess' hosting event - as long as the answer was 2 or less - you were ok! :ok:Shame all that experience will shortly be dispersed and diluted.

[Stuffy]

N a b,
There is a phrase, "The state of that and the price of kippers."

These days,it's the price of copper, the price has gone through the roof with commodities.
There must be miles of stuff in the ship.
Ever met a poor scrap metal merchant?

I have been waiting for her to leave at 15:30 hrs.
The wind is too strong.
Now it will be 4am !

[Not_a_boffin]

10000 te of ferrous @ £150/te

450 te of non-ferrous @£2500/te based on highquality PVC copper wire.

So about £2.6M then.

Less cost of tug charter UK to Turkey, insurance, manpower to dismantle and cost of disposal of non-recyclables.

Take your point about absence of poor scrap merchants, but I can't see how anyone is taking the p1ss here.

[Stuffy]

I just want Lusty and the Ark to remain until the new carriers are operational.

Historically , this is unlikely to happen.

The 1930's all over again. Cut back then PANIC !

[Courtney Mil]

Stuffy, thanks for posting. I had a very intersting month on board Lusty ahead of GWII. I have to say, even in that time, I was rather taken by her.

[Stuffy]

Here are some photos for Courtney Mil. Most welcome to share.

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q718/Bletchley2/Lusty01_zps3d8e8d48.jpg

[Stuffy]

The Merlin looks rather large....
http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q718/Bletchley2/Lusty02_zpsfa3c1b38.jpg


May 13th. Too windy to leave.
http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q718/Bletchley2/Lusty03_zpsb62465e3.jpg

[Nimbus20]

Sandy - don't worry about the potential loss of SatTV etc, the Comms gear will be stripped off and transferred to the new carriers. Everything that can be re-used will be: it's how to replace and regenerate on the cheap. You know that MoD cannot resist that temptation!

[tonker]

Its a shame it could not have been moored further up near Westminster, with the words "Sacrificed for the foreign aid budget" written on its side:ugh:

[Stuffy]

I'd like to sacrifice a few politicians.

Foreign aid budget ??

A number of journalists have cast aspersions about 'Kick-backs' with those deals, on both sides of the fence.

Then there is the Third world General who wants his new Mercedes.( that's what happened to some of the 2004 Tsunami money).

The senior third world politician who wants to add to his numbered Swiss bank account.

[Stuffy]

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q718/Bletchley2/Lusty04_zps4a1e1e84.jpg

http://i1355.photobucket.com/albums/q718/Bletchley2/Lusty05_zps84b0c8f9.jpg

Even with three large tugs. It was still too windy to leave.

[dhp41]

Even with three large tugs. It was still too windy to leave.

The problem would have been getting through the Thames Barrier with that much wind on the beam.

[Courtney Mil]

She is a thing of beauty. Thank you for sharing the pictures. I still have my HMS Lusty guide book, handed to me as I went aboard. Invaluable for finding one's way around, a fascinating read and a great rememberance of my short time aboard and meny hours spent talking to the crew who made that their life. Hats off.

[Stuffy]

dhp41,
I be a landlubber boy. I didn't think about the Thames Barrier.

A friend sent me this:-
Live AIS - ShipSpotting.com - ShipSpotting.com - Ship Photos and Ship Tracker (http://www.shipspotting.com/ais/index.php)

" Portsmouth RN yard has Christos XXIII tied up alongside tonight. Ex-HMS Ark Royal was towed out of one of the inner docks today and will be hitched to this old tub sometime in the next 12-24 hours, and then, sadly, she's to be towed off to Asia to be broken up.
An MoD spokesman said that the work couldn't be done here as we had no industry capable of doing it.*What about that*company on Tyneside that controversially brought over those ex-USN asbestos-ridden destroyers to scrap a couple of years ago?
Anyhow, a light-aircraft carrier with one Lynx and a Merlin is not conducive to a projection of naval-power,methinks.

[West Coast]

Linky no worky

[Stuffy]

West Coast,

It should be OK now?

Live AIS - ShipSpotting.com - ShipSpotting.com - Ship Photos and Ship Tracker (http://www.shipspotting.com/ais/index.php)

[Not_a_boffin]

The company you're thinking of is Able UK on Teesside. Who recycled a bunch of ex-US auxiliaries and the French carrier Clemenceau.

Able UK Ltd - Decommissioning, Ship Recycling, Shiprecycling & Ship Breaking (http://www.ableuk.com/shiprecycling.htm)

Ark is programmed to leave on Monday, near midday, Tuesday as reserve.

[Dunky]

Great pictures of a great ship. It reminds me of when I first joined the mob and was doing my seamanship training in small sailing boats from Jupiter Point. At night we anchored in the lee of the old Ark Royal. I also remember seeing the old Bulwark tied up in Portsmouth alongside one of the new, (at that time), carriers,(through-deck-cruiser), and thinking about the difference in size. Thinking of big, when I saw the type 22's for the first time I thought it was massive for a frigate.

[Stuffy]

Great pictures of a great ship.

Thank you Dunky.

[NutLoose]

Great pics, out of interest why is the flag at half mast on the picture taken on the 13th?

[GrahamO]

If it were up to me, which unfortunately it isn't. I would keep The Illustrious and Ark Royal until the new carriers become operational.

So what would you cut from the budget to keep them operational ?

Your comment is a really good example of historical defence thinking - no attention to keeping within a budget, and an assumption that there is a bucket of cash around provided by the taxpayer !

I doubt your household is run like that.

Back to the main point, I was in Portsmouth at the Spinnaker tower last wek and I though I saw Invincible there, but was clearly mistaken.

[Stuffy]

I would cut the Foreign Aid Budget. The EU budget, and any beancounter I can get my hands on. Don't get me onto the banks !

Streetwise and military personnel rarely appear in the same sentence.

If you want to be 'management man' and follow their BS.
Up to you.

Don't give me any of this we cannot afford it crap either. When money is needed, it is mysteriously suddenly available.

If we can afford the overpriced F-35B. We can afford anything.

Don't believe the BS !

[Dysonsphere]

For anyone intrested Ark Royal leaves Portsmouth at 1300 on her final voyage to the breakers. :(

[Courtney Mil]

...to be broken up in a Turkish yard, not even dismantled in the UK.

[Stuffy]

Sacrificed for the Foreign Aid Budget. The beancounters and Globalists are having their day. The Ark was better than the converted container ships the Royal Navy has now.

It has been a Great Mistake. Gay marriage is more important to this government.

BBC News - Ark Royal leaves Portsmouth for scrap yard (http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-22541019)

[Hangarshuffle]

Agree with Stuffy totally, I would have kept it going.

Fleet Air Arm and RN aviation and everything else involved with maritime air ops is going to be difficult to kick start again. Not impossible, but just much more difficult.

Graham O,I would have cut something else, somewhere with the public finances of this country to keep relatively important military systems running.

CVS did a lot of operations, did a lot of things for this country and other countries too. They were worth their money.

Its not a good time, ever to cut back on military spending in this country, ever. History always seems to teach us this lesson, at least in some things I've read, or been told by people who were there..
I think we should always keep our armed forces relatively strong, well equipped and well trained.

Most ordinary reasonable people think that y'know, despite their political differences.

[500N]

"Its not a good time, ever to cut back on military spending in this country, ever. History always seems to teach us this lesson,"

Hangar

It's not like the history is all that long ago for the UK either
with most from the Falklands era still alive.

[Stuffy]

Sometime from now, and that far off date when the Queen Elizabeth and the Prince of Wales, allegedly become operational. Aircraft issues notwithstanding.

There will be a major panic with the words, "Why did we scrap The Ark and Illustrious?"

I would add Harriers to the comment. OK the FRS 2 Harrier was not supersonic and didn't have much of a range,but; It pissed all over the F15 and Rafale in exercises.

1967: Order from Pakistan Air Force high command. Do not engage the Indian Air Force Gnat. Which became the Ajeet later.
Folland Gnat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folland_Gnat)

Ajeet.
HAL Ajeet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_Ajeet)

[LateArmLive]

OK the FRS 2 Harrier was not supersonic and didn't have much of a range,but; It pissed all over the F15 and Rafale in exercises.
:hmm:So you're saying the Sea Harrier was a better aircraft than the F15 and Rafale? Or are you saying you saw one of the latter aircraft playing Red Air on an Ex once and get shot BVR by a Sea Jet using trg AMRAAM parameters?

Let's try and stay credible!

[Stuffy]

Well that's what my source(s) have told me.

[Engines]

LAL,

Perhaps I can help here. I was involved with bringing the FA2 into service, as well as serving with an FRS1 squadron. (but not a pilot - engineer)

Sea Harrier was not, in any way, 'a better aircraft' than either F15 or Rafale. Not very much sustained G capability, slow and not a lot of fuel. However...

1. Flown aggressively by good and highly trained pilots, the FRS1 could give a very good account of itself, especially when armed with 9Ls. Small, hard to spot, no smoke, and a very good weapons system integration. My source was an F-16 pilot who said that the SHAR's HUD was one of the best he ever saw, and the aircraft one of the toughest adversaries. I also know that FRS1s gave most adversaries at Deci a good run for their money, including F-15s. Once they actually got into combat, the fact that they didn't use reheat often allowed them to outlast an F-15. But, no BVR capability, so...

2. The FA2 had an exceptionally good BVR capability, due to a world class radar that arrived on time (both firsts for a UK fighter programme), and an even better radar/missile integration. My source for the first statement - UK pilots who flew FA2s and F/A-18C/D, who said that Blue Vixen was about the best radar of its type when it entered service. My source for the second statement - the guys from Hughes who came over to help us get the AMRAAM into service and said that we had the most capable radar/AMRAAM combo in the world at that time (92 to around 98). FA2s were a completely 'credible' jet right up to the day they were retired, and were proving it. It was about to get a really excellent JTIDS/INS/radar integration update that would have given it a new lease of life. But, it was canned, but.....

3. Happily, most of the experience and technology from the FA2's BV/AMRAAM combo went over to help the Typhoon programme.

I don't think they 'pissed all over' F-15s and Rafales all the time. (Sorry, Stuffy). But they were world class when they entered service and a thoroughly 'credible' combat aircraft right up to the day they were retired.

Best Regards as ever to those getting ready to do Naval Fixed Wing Aviation all over again,

Engines

[Union Jack]

Great pics, out of interest why is the flag at half mast on the picture taken on the 13th?

Nutloose - I suspect that the flag on the jackstaff appears to be at half-mast simply because of the way it is swirling in the fairly strong wind, and a quick look at the ensign staff seems to confirm this inasmuch as the ensign is flying close-up.

Jack

[LateArmLive]

Ladies and gents,

I am quite familiar (or rather was :sad: familiar) with the FA2's capabilities, I was just questioning the rather bold (and in my opinion, misleading) statement about its performance vs other aircraft.

Orca, how about APG-81, Meteor/AMRAAM and a M1.4 launch in block 4 with a >6g abort option? Not long to wait now!

[orca]

Whilst it certainly isn't the whole story I would much rather have a Blue Vixen than a APG-65 any day of the week and I would rather have an AMRAAM than a Mica.

As for pissing all over other aeroplanes - that sounds both un-gentlemanly and counter-productive. One can only assume it was a trick perfected on the F3 force ;).

I pissed all over myself in an aeroplane once, but that was a 'urine bag/ autopilot malfunction issue' that probably won't happen again.

[bast0n]

I pissed all over myself in an aeroplane once, but that was a 'urine bag/ autopilot malfunction issue' that probably won't happen again.

Well, not in an aircraft...................:)

[Bannock]

I remember watching a 2 Deck dash on her ( a rapid circumnavigation of 2 deck when an individual wears nothing but anti flash and a smile) with the sprinter being chased by the Master At Arms who had to stop because he was laughing so much.
Happy days.

[Flying Lawyer]

Some pics from the good old days .....

HMS Illustrious 28 June - 2 July 09

Pilots from IV Sqn (R) RAF embarked to gain/renew carrier currency
Harriers from Naval Strike Wing


Oslofjord
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/Illustrious060ps_800.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/Illustrious063_800.jpg


North Sea
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/HMSIllustrious050_800.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/HMSIllustrious030_800.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/Harrier1c_web.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/FlightDeck1_web-1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/FlightDeck2_web.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/HarrierHover_web.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/Harrier2_web.jpg


From FlyCo
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/HMSIllustrious115-800-1.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/HMSIllustrious139pcr800.jpg



RN Lynx night flying - Midnight in the North Sea
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/HMSIllustrious128_800.jpg



Disembarking off the Scottish coast

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/HMSIllustrious197p800.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Rotorheads/HMS%20Illustrious/HMS-Illustrious-201c900web.jpg
(Some distortion - pic taken from Lynx.)



HMS Illustrious (http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/operations-and-support/surface-fleet/aircraft-carriers/hms-illustrious/) and 4 Squadron RAF (http://www.raf.mod.uk/organisation/IVSquadron(R).cfm) are both Affiliated Units of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators (http://www.gapan.org/)



Tudor Owen

[Stuffy]

Superb photos.

Many thanks.

Why oh why are these assets being/were removed ?

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/515401-hms-ark-royal-under-tow.html

[Union Jack]

I remember watching a 2 Deck dash on her ( a rapid circumnavigation of 2 deck when an individual wears nothing but anti flash and a smile)

Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me!:eek:

Jack