N-Reg in UK Question...

[LAI]

This has probably be done before, but would be grateful for the latest advice on the following situation!

Myself and another pilot have been asked to operate a privately owned Cessna 310, based in the UK. The aircraft has recently been purchased by the new owner and was on the G-Reg. However, due to some apparently very expensive recurrent inspections on the type, they are planning on moving it to the N-Reg as this, they tell me, will make these inspections significantly cheaper for them.

This then gives us the issue of neither of us holding FAA licences. As we will be operating as commercial pilots (even though it's a private operation), my limited understanding is that we would have to hold a full FAA commercial licence (as opposed to one just issued on the basis of our EASA quals)? I am told this would be a case of having to complete the theory exam and the CPL and IR (or ATP for my colleague) flight tests? However, I have not been able to find out whether or not we can do initial flight tests over here in the UK, or whether we would have to go the US for this?

I am also aware of the various goings on with regard to N-Reg operations in Europe under EASA, but admit that I haven't been paying much attention to it as it didn't affect me until now!

I would be grateful for any advice firstly on what issues there may be coming up for operating this aircraft in Europe under the N-Reg, whether there is another option to reduce these huge inspection costs while being able to operate it with EASA licences and finally, if not, any recommendations on somewhere to get all the FAA flight tests etc. sorted out!

Thanks!

LAI

[Flying Mechanic]

all you need is a FAA ppl as its for a private ops. Head over to the states and do multi engine rating, and a FAA m/e instrument rating flight test.If you have an ICAO i/r , you can use those hours as credit to sit for you Faa I/R.

[zondaracer]

If you are not paying your pro-rata share then you will need a commercial certificate.

Refer to FAR 61.113, 1.1, 119.1. 91.501

Traps For The Unwary: Business Flying And The "Compensation Or Hire" Rule (http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/186346-1.html)

[this is my username]

The FAA written tests are straightforward - you can take them at FSI Farnborough. A few days with the ASA test prep books should sort that for you.

You can take the flight tests is Europe but you will need to find an FAA DPE (Designated Pilot Examiner) to do that for you. You will need to find an FAA Instructor first for the required training and sign-off, and the Instructor should be able to point you at a DPE. The Instructor should also be able to advise on the requirement for TSA (security) approval. You can have fingerprints for TSA approval done at Farnborough too.

You may find it easier to go to the US and do it there - there a number of schools in the US geared up to doing these things in the minimum elapsed time - for example I went to Tailwheels Etc in Florida, other posters have mentioned Chandler Air Service.

Your colleague won't need an ATP, a Commercial will be sufficient.

[No RYR for me]

Mmm... Labor cost is the same if you have the aircraft inspected in Europe by either FAA or EASA AP´s so I can only think that the FAA allows a lighter inspection.... I get a penny wise pound foolish feeling... What is the inspection? :ooh:

[sapperkenno]

I went to Chandler Air Service, and can recommend them. They provide a good product.
I'm a FAA Commercial pilot with Instrument and Multi-engine ratings, so why not give me the C310 job?! ;-)

[Dusty_B]

Sounds like they're not trying to reduce costs, but avoid them. The SIDS program is mandatory over here whether CAT or Private. FAA more relaxed for private ops (ie, you don't have to do it at all). Remedial work would be expensive no matter which register you are on, so the cost saving must only be through trying to avoid the whole inspection in the first place.

The SIDS program is expensive to run, but from what I've seen, most of the inspections pick up on something, and are therefore worth doing.

I'd be avoiding any owner who expects me to fly an aircraft the go to such great lengths to avoid spending money on. Just pointing out he obvious.

[BBJ-Captain]

PM sent about FAA conversion.

[421C]

The SIDS program is expensive to run, but from what I've seen, most of the
inspections pick up on something, and are therefore worth doing.

I'd be
avoiding any owner who expects me to fly an aircraft the go to such great
lengths to avoid spending money on. Just pointing out he obvious.


I was operating a twin Cessna when the Cessna SID issue emerged in the mid 2000s.
A couple of 400-series aircraft used for Grand Canyon sightseeing (and therefore a vast number of hours and short cycles) developed some structural issues at airframe hours 4x the typical fleet hours. Cessna launched a huge ass-covering program on all their twins with an eye to the horrible potential cost of US litigation. The FAA considered making them mandatory, but a huge amount of work by the Cessna twin pilot community demonstrated the flaws in Cessna's analysis and firmly slammed the door on that.

The SIDs achieve nothing but can cost £50k-£100k. Sure, you could dismantle any airplane and "find something". The great majority of twin Cessnas are on the N-reg and have flown with no SID inspection for 8 years since they were introduced, and I am not aware of a single incident that could have been prevented by the SID inspection.

Of course, the CAA/EASA make compulsory what is a manufacturer's recommendation. So a G-reg owner has to have imposed on them whatever Cessna's lawyers and liability insurers think is in Cessna's interests, irrespective of what is in an owner's interests, at a cost which can be close to 50%-100% of the airframe value. It's lunacy and your owners are quite right to move to the N for private operations.

brgds
421C

[LAI]

Thanks all for the replies, very helpful.

I have taken this back to the owners, so we'll see what they decide to do!

Cheers

LAI