How high is the highest class G in Aus?

[Andy_RR]

Noddy question, I know, but I don't have any charts handy that give me a clue.

Does someone know off the top of their head?

Ta muchly

[VH-XXX]

FL180 perhaps. Can't seem to find higher than that right now without looking too hard.

Tindal and Uluru have FL180 Class E surrounding them.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Agree XXX,

South of Perth, once clear of the MIL R airspace, FL180 is LL of E.

This is the closest to Jandakot if ya want to go 'up'.

E = LL FL180 seems to be the standard for the remainder of the country...I would think....
(Don't have all the charts either...)
Perth VNC, ERC Low, refer.

Cheers

[Wally Mk2]

FL180 as mentioned if I recall with a few area's up to 8500', I think more around class C Airspace & class D Aerodromes for that lower limit.
G has class E above it too again if I recall.

I always wondered why we had to learn the Alphabet!:-)


Wmk2

Ok just saw ya post 'Las'.............Abv FL600 is Class S, Space here we come!:)

[Lasiorhinus]

Everything above FL600 is class G

[VH-XXX]

I'm not really that intelligent, I just opened OZRunways and looked for the most remote VNC and browsed around the edges of it ;)

[bodybag]

While we're talking about airspace.. Does anyone know what class B is? There are a couple of references to Class B in the AIP but I've certainly never come across it..

[Wally Mk2]

Class B & F aren't used in the Aussie alphabet soup airspace:-)A thru to G
A Google search will reveal all:-)


Wmk2

[bodybag]

Why do they reference class B in AIP?
(GEN 1.5, 6.1.1)
(GEN 3.3, 1.3)

[glekichi]

The G goes up to FL245 just south of South East Cape, Tasmania.

[bodybag]

If you look to the north west of Darwin on the ENR chart, class G goes up to FL245 between the oceanic boundary and the Brisbane FIR boundary underneath the Oceanic class A.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Absolutely 'Lurved' it in the good ole days, when CTA went only up to
FL400....

And then along came ......Concorde!!!

As he left FL400 on the climb, he was OCTA, and OURS!!
Much to the chagrin of ATC at the time.
Good Ole FS had the pleasure of providing the comms, SAR, and of course, the (Ahem) ALL important 'TRAFFIC' watch as he cruise climbed to above FL600....Where he would still be OCTA today!!

He actually gave me a 'Part 3' AIREP as he crossed the Bight - well to the South of - to avoid disturbing the 'Waggle' - I cannot remember what the wind and temps were, but the MET guys had a smile.

As a Supervisor at the time, I put 'Mal' (How did ya know it was me..) on, and, as the aircraft tracked around the coast via Cape Leeuwin, then N to PH, the CTA recommenced then at 28DME to the SW of PH.
ATC wanted the acft on their freqs 'early' for whatever reason, he was on RADAR of course, so Dear Mals said someting like, 'HE's not yours till 28 DME - I'll give him to you at 30....'
He actually handed the acft over at 40DME - just to be 'nice'....

They actually had no traffic which was going to affect Concorde's approach..... (Super's ascertain these things to keep 'things cool'...)

For another story...ask the RAAFies of the time 'Wot 'appened' when they thought they might try an 'interception exercise' using the Mirages ex Willie, as he was on the way 'in', and again on the way 'out'....???

A, B, C, Spaghetti airspace....:yuk::yuk:
You WAS either 'IN' or you was "OUT".....and got the services accordingly!!

Cheers....Rant over...cuppa....:ok:

[Wally Mk2]

Excellent to work to those astute map readers:ok:

'Griffo' I bet you could write a book on what was heard, said & believed to be true of ATC over the years, the ATC fun police are all over it like a rash these days.



Wmk2

[Nautilus Blue]

I was wondering how soon either the sexy white pointy thing or the sexy black pointy thing would appear on this thread.

For VFR E is almost the same as G so there are lots of places outside the curve formerly known as J you can go to F245 without needing a clearance (if that was the idea behind the question).

I seem to remember at one stage all our A was B, which is probably why B is still in the books.

Griffo - its not that complicated. You can be in, out or sort of in, while others you are in with are out, or in, or kind out but in someways in, while close to others in a different in (or out), that may be less out (or in) than you but may be in proximity (or out).

[Howard Hughes]

A, B, C, Spaghetti airspace....
You WAS either 'IN' or you was "OUT".....and got the services accordingly!!
These days some are in while some are out, in the same airspace!:eek:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

JEEZ Blue,

I got 'stuck' mittout cnce in the middle line...somewhere....

WELL PUT!!!:ok:

[Howard Hughes]

I'm glad Blue cleared it up! :ok:

[kellykelpie]

I know it's an oldie but remember the story of the SR71 requesting the upper limit of class G - Evidently the controller didn't know the service ceiling of this aircraft.

Pilot: "Radar, Good Day, Airforce Blackbird, request FL 600(!)"
Controller (amused): "Sir, if you can reach, you are cleared FL 600"
Pilot: "US Air Force Blackbird, leaving FL 800, decending Level 600..."

[aussie027]

Bodybag,
As mentioned above Class B is not used in Aust alphabet soup.

In the USA most of the largest busiest RPT airports are in Class B control zones and smaller busy RPT airports are in Class C.

Eg LAX , SFO and Washington Dulles and Baltimore, NY, Chicago, Dallas etc are in class B whilst smaller but busy airports like Sacramento, Reno, etc are in Class C control zones and areas.
Here in Aust we put the capital city airports in class C.
Busy US GA airfields like Australia's JT and Parafield etc are in Class D.

[bodybag]

Yes, I'm aware it's not used.
I'm curious as to why the AIP makes reference to it as though it is used?
I doubt they forgot to delete it during a cut and paste exercise. There must be a reason for it?

[Nautilus Blue]

I'm curious as to why the AIP makes reference to it as though it is used?
I doubt they forgot to delete it during a cut and paste exercise. There must be a reason for it?
Could be an oversight, or maybe its easier to leave it in incase its ever reintroduced. If all the classes of airspace are in the books, its simply a matter of changing the charts to reclassify airspace as and when needed.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

'Possibly' left as a 'mention'...in the same context as
'This Page Intentionally Left Blank'....??

Just so as 'we the great unwashed' know that 'they' have thought about it...
OR...as said - left in from the cut & paste, but cut from wot???

Sometimes I just think they are 'all' from the 'left bank'....

Happy Ldgs.....:}

[Andy_RR]

Ooh, thanks for all the answers guys. I figured it was to all intents and purposes FL180, but it seems like one could go higher if necessary.

Actually, the question that prompted this question was how high it might be legal to fly a model aircraft/UAV. For the purposes of "sport and recreation", one is only limited to line-of-sight in uncontrolled airspace when flying one's balsa and tissue contraptions, so it seems like a sharp pair of eyes are needed for any altitude record attempts.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Well Andy,
To establish an altitude record, I guess you could always hire a real aircraft and 'accompany' your UAV / model so as to remain in....
1 - radio range of its controls, and, of course,
2 - that all important 'line of sight'.....


There is / was an 'urban myth' of a radio controlled glider, wingspan 'over 6 feet', that got away from its controller at the R/C field at Kalgoorlie, and was supposedly sighted by a then T-Jet over the coast....(Very late 70's - Early 80's...)

Is that high enuf..??

p.s. From an ERC Low, 'E' seems to be LL FL180 'all over' with 'A' at LL FL245above.
Requirements for 'E' ...??

Cheers:ok:

[Andy_RR]

radio range isn't a big problem these days since autonomous operation is possible and control isn't a legal requirement

VLOS is the major hurdle however, given a visual accuity of 6/6 or better, a 2m wingspan airframe should technically be visible at FL180 if CAVU. Additionally, I don't think the line-of-sight condition would legally need to be unaided, although I'd not bet my house on that point.

Class E is, I understand, considered controlled airspace, so you'd need ATC clearance to enter with a model aircraft, oddly enough...

[Nautilus Blue]

automomous operation is possible and control isn't a legal requirement
This may be a stupid question, but if manual control is not required, why is line of sight?

VFR aircraft don't need a clearance to enter class E, but I suppose it would be hard to fit a model with a transponder.

Ballooneers and glidists have arranged restricted areas and airspace reclassifications for record breaking attempts, maybe start schmoozing CASA?


Requirements for 'E' ...??

Up to two VFR aircraft from Perth use E above F180, although quite rarely, and actually one crashed and I haven't seen the other for ages, but it's there if someone want's it.

[Andy_RR]

This may be a stupid question, but if manual control is not required, why is line of sight?


It's not whether it's stupid or not. The question is whether it's legal or not and I am basing my reasoning on my reading of CASR101


VFR aircraft don't need a clearance to enter class E, but I suppose it would be hard to fit a model with a transponder.


Yes, you could fit a transponder - they are available for the UAV industry at very low weights, but expensive and power consuming. The point is, it isn't VFR, because it is a model aircraft and subject to CASR101.


Ballooneers and glidists have arranged restricted areas and airspace reclassifications for record breaking attempts, maybe start schmoozing CASA?


Yes, this is also possible to get past FL180 and into class A if necessary. It might be a reasonable thing to do in the future, however that wasn't the key to the original question, which was, how far could you legally go given the current constraints.

[CaptainMidnight]

how far could you legally go given the current constraints.Safest thing to do is to talk to CASA.

The various model aircraft locations that have been granted approval by CASA to operate above 400FT AGL are marked on the charts.

UAVs vs. model aircraft are treated entirely differently WRT the regs, operator requirements etc. as you've no doubt discovered from Part 101.