CASA Instructor Grades

[Grievo]

Hello all,

Im doing my CPL in WA and like many, intend to instruct to start into the industry.

I am a bit confused by the grades of Instructor though. Apart from Grade 3 being the lowest and Grade one the highest, I don't understand the difference between them and what, if any, advantage there is for progressing past Grade 3.

Would someone please enlighten me?

Cheers.

[BPA]

Did a Grade 3 send you solo?

Did a Grade 3 carry out any of you license check flights?

Have you read the regulations regarding the different grades?

Have you asked any of your instructors what the difference between the grades?

[peterc005]

Civil Aviation Order 40.1.7

Do a Google search to download it from the CASA web site.

[Lasiorhinus]

Don't instruct to "start into the industry".

Instruct only if you want to teach, and have a genuine desire to teach.

[Homesick-Angel]

Grade 3= sh1t money and happy to do anything. You also know everything at this point

Senior grade 3 = sh1t money and happy to do almost anything. There are cracks appearing in your limitless knowledge

Grade 2 = sh1t money and you really need to be told to do stuff. You now know you don't know anything..

Grade 1 = a little bit better than sh1t money and it means you think your qualified to tell everybody everything because you know everything again...

ME IFR instructor = demi Gods, but don't worry, they'll be gone with the big boys soon.

Or

Cfi = ok money and you know everything just a bit better than the other crap CFIs out there..?

ATO= deep mental illness and an interest in leather, whips and hot wax in their spare time..

[anothertwit]

I'm with Lasiorhinus (http://www.pprune.org/members/66041-lasiorhinus) on this one, don't instruct just to get some hours. On other threads here on pprune people are speculating as to why we hear more and more lighties going in, maybe the quality of their training has something to do with it. Just my opinion. sorry for the drift. :E

If you want to instruct, do it at the end of your career, not the start. That way you may have something worth while to pass on to your students.

[Tinstaafl]

Grade 3. May instruct for PPL, Night VFR & CPL. Also give endorsements for design features & he or she holds. May not send students solo until gaining at least 100 hours instructing experience and endorsed by the Chief Flying Instructor. Sending students solo is limited to subsequent solos ie may not send a student for a first solo in any lesson.

After 100 hours may also be approved to instruct without the direct supervision of a Grade 1 instructor ie only requires indirect supervision, . That pre- and post-100 hour mark is commonly referred to as Junior & Senior Grade 3, respectively.

Gr. 2: Prerequisite for the flight test: 250 hours teaching from the PPL & CPL syllabus (at least 50 of that must be cross country training) & 6 months as a Gr. 3. May do all that a Grade 3 may do and also send students for a 1st solo. After 400 hours instructing experience may be authorised to give flight reviews. Used to be that a Gr. 2 could also act as a 'pretend student' for Flight Instructor Trainees but I think that privilege may have been broadened in recent years to include a Gr. 3? Indirect supervision from a Grade 1 required.

Gr.1: 750 hours instructing & 1 year as Gr 2. May do all that a Gr. 2 may do plus teach for instrument ratings & instructor ratings. May also be approved to be a Chief Flying Instructor**. May supervise instructors with a lower grade instructor rating.

Multi Engine Training Approval (META): May be added to any grade of instructor rating via a flight test

Instrument rating training approval: May be added to a Gr. 3 or Gr.2 via a flight test. Included with a Gr. 1 rating (care to guess what a Gr.1 test will likely include?)


**Chief Flying Instructor: Must be approved by CASA. Certain minimum hours specified (other than the 750 hours to hold a Gr.1) depending on the level of flying school. More hours needed for an instrument &/or instructor school. Been a long time but I think it was 2000 hours total for an instrument school, and 1200 hours instructing for an instructor school.

[Kiwivator]

Bit of advice, as a commercial pilot it's a good idea to know where things are on the CASA website and in the CAR's and CAO's. You can't be expected to memorize it all but a bit of initiative when it comes to finding things out (especially as an instructor) isn't always a bad thing.

But as everyone has said you start off as Grade 3 and can instruct in all sequences up to CPL but cannot send people on their first solo's. You can also issue endorsements that you hold and can train students towards NVFR if you hold the rating (although come end of year that may be changing along with a lot of other stuff). Also for your first 100 hours you have to be directly supervised by the CFI or a Grade 1 approved by the CFI.

If you are only using the instructing as a stepping stone and nothing else then it isn't for you. If you're ultimately wanting to go to the airlines then thats ok but your priority as an instructor is the students and the quality of training they are getting, not your hours. Instructing is a great first job and your knowledge will increase well above your average 150 hour cpl holder, just make sure you have the passion to pass onto your students.

Good luck I hope it all works out.

Kiwivator

[Grievo]

Tinstaafl,

Awesome answer mate, thanks for taking the time to fill me in, I really appreciate it.

Kiwi,

Thanks for the response, about initiative, I agree completely, I was wondering at work and hopped on the mobile to quickly ask the question, hoping someone in the know, such as yourself would be willing to give me a quick rundown on what's involved. Being a student pilot I still see places like Pprune as a resource of information and access to knowledge from guys who've been around. But you're right, I should do more of my own legwork and look myself in future.

As for my personal ambitions, I really like the idea of instructing, I've instructed in other areas of my professional life and always enjoyed it, which is why I thought instructing would be ideal. Its a job low hour pilots can realistically aim to get. I also buy into the school of thought that a few years reaching good techniques and the basics will make me a better pilot in the long run. Unfortunately, I don't think being an instructor long term would be making the full use of the qualification as a pilot financially, but it's a string to the bow I'd like have.

Thanks again for the replies.

[Kiwivator]

Judging by your response I would say instructing would definitely be good choice. I realize pprune is a good way of finding out things quickly (used it myself quite a bit too haha) especially seeing as the Aussie Law is a pain to navigate around compared to NZ (maybe a bit biased). But you seem keen and have the right attitude and while you don't want to be an instructor forever (most people don't lol) as long as you put effort into it while you're there then thats great.

I think if you go down that path you'll love the time there and you'll learn so much so I say go for it! You sound like you have the right stuff so talk to people and ideally do your rating somewhere where you're likely to get a job.

Best of luck :ok:

[Arm out the window]

especially seeing as the Aussie Law is a pain to navigate around compared to NZ

It's simple mate - 'Notwithstanding the above mentioned sub-sub-paragraph 30.4.7 (a), a person, being a person authorised to carry out duties including, but not limited to, the duties set out in Appendix II, must carry out those duties in the manner prescribed by the Act. Failure to do so is an offence of strict liability.'

[Compylot]

Instructors make some of the very best pilots and are highly sort after by airlines not only locally but worldwide.

Many airlines recognize this and have a policy of only employing pilots who have at least some instructing background.

A friend of mine who had extensive charter experience was told during her interview that said airline would prefer she go back and use her grade 3 instructor rating to get some more valuable aviation exposure prior to applying again...:ok:

[Manwell]

Good summary Homesick, but there's one small flaw underlying it. All think they know how to fly, but very few can do anything more than drive an aircraft through the air. That would explain the ATO's deep mental illness, since as Shakespeare observed, "Naught's had. All's spent. When our desire is got without content." They eventually realize they're better at parroting established dogma than anyone else, and acting like a pilot, but still haven't achieved mastery of themselves, let alone an aircraft.

[43Inches]

A friend of mine who had extensive charter experience was told during her interview that said airline would prefer she go back and use her grade 3 instructor rating to get some more valuable aviation exposure prior to applying again...

That sounds more like a "don't call us, we'll call you" using a small insignificance to let you down lightly, rather than say, you're just not our thing at the moment. That being said with the uncertainties around part 61 and whether trainers/checkers need instructor ratings airlines were hedging their bets and taking qualified instructors just in case. Instructors can have some insight to multi crew operations and dealing with cross cockpit conflict, all depends on where and who you have worked for. A pilot with just mostly VFR charter can struggle with the IFR component as would a grade three instructor with similar experience, maybe that's what they meantby broadening the experience base.

As for the ATO bashing, most I know are very experienced pilots with a varied GA career, not just instructing. Get to know your ATO, they are good people, and it will make checks a lot easier if you get along with them.

[Xeptu]

The only thing that matters to a Pilot is "situational awareness" and the single most important element for that is "knowledge"

[Capt Fathom]

Superseded long ago.
As was this thread…. resurrected yesterday from 2013.

[Xeptu]

As was this thread…. resurrected yesterday from 2013.

Grievo is probably an A320 Captain now lol

[megle2]

Homesick Angel in Post 5 pretty well sums it up. Have things changed much since then