FAA to JAR after training in Florida

[CrackedCay]

Hello, this is my first post on this forum, so I hope it's in the right place. (Please link me in the right direction if it's wrong).

So bare with me, I haven't properly started my PPL training yet but I'm currently working my socks off to get the money together. I'm 18, I live in Ireland, and I did 2 hours about 2 years ago and have just wanted to get back in the cockpit ever since (money was the barrier).

I'm hearing everybody say 'FLORIDA FLORIDA FLORIDA' and after looking at some posts on this forum and others, it seems to be the way to go to save money. I'm trying to get all of the technical info sorted but I need some help with this.

I'm completely confused by all of this JAA/JAR/FAA stuff. My aim is to train for my PPL in florida, and come back to Ireland to fly here, and eventually beyond. From what I know (could be wrong), the FAA is the system you train under in the US, and the JAR is in Europe. I'm not sure where the JAA fits in, but my question is:
what are the problems with converting from one standard to the other, so I can fly in Ireland?

My knowledge is quite poor in this area so bare that in mind if you can.

Thanks!

[BigGrecian]

There is no conversion if you got to an EASA school. You train with an EASA instructor, test with an EASA examiner and then apply for an EASA licence based on your medical records.

There are 4 schools in Florida which will give you the same licence that you would train for in Ireland.

Google it - and look at the advertisements on PPrune.

[CrackedCay]

That's perfect. Did a search, found some EASA schools. So I presume that EASA is another name for JAR?

[Tinstaafl]

EASA & EASA's regulations replaced JAA & JAA regulations (JARs)

[portos8]

Yes Florida is cheap, but ad steep cost of living, costs of your flights there, visa arrangements and the cost of local transport (you need a car) and you will find out that it is not so cheap afterall.
There are plenty of places in Eastern Europe (Poland/Czech Republic) that are well run modern EASA certified outfits where you will possibly spent less money in total than after a USA adventure.
Upsides are that with cheap Ryanair connections;
- you can visit the FTO's before making a decission
- you do not need a visa
- you do all your training in EASA airspace
- you can do your training truely modular and combine it with a job in Ireland

If you want to have a career in the EU it is important for many operators that you have done your training with an EASA outfit in EASA airspace. By combining your flighttraining with a job you spread your risk and end up with your bankbalance, well, being more balanced:ok:

[zondaracer]

If you want to have a career in the EU it is important for many operators that you have done your training with an EASA outfit in EASA airspace.

If that is truly the case, then the likes of Oxford/CAE and Lufthansa are doing a disservice to their students by sending them to the US.

[portos8]

Ok, as those are integrated courses and some of the hourbuilding is done in the US.

[jetto]

Did the thing about seven years ago, at the time it was worth doing, relatively easy and quick conversion to JAA. Nowadays the EASA makes it complicated, the best way, before you do anything is to go and ask directly your CAA what exactly they require, most probably getting the rating in EU and some timebuilding in US should work the best.

[CrackedCay]

Thanks for that tip. Didn't realize that it's better to do EASA training in EASA airspace.

I've been looking at a few schools in Europe, but they all look similar (Probably not looking good enough). I will ring around later this week for info on prices, but in the meantime are there any places you know of that are decent?

That's probably a question for a new thread but you seem to know a little about European schools.

[BigGrecian]

If you want to have a career in the EU it is important for many operators that you have done your training with an EASA outfit in EASA airspace.

The biggest pile of utter rubbish I have heard on Pprune.

Tens Thousands of pilots have trained outside EASA states particularly the USA directly for EASA licences and found employment following their training.

About 1/3 of the world's flight training alone is done in Florida.

[zondaracer]

I have to agree with Big Grecian. I know plenty of guys who have done almost all of their training in the US and found employment in Europe, even in recent times.

Having done my training in the US and then a conversion in Europe, I found that flying IFR is not much different. VFR is a little bit different (due to different airspace, rules, etc.) but easily learned.

[seymoreskye]

Does New Zealand count as EASA airspace because I am pretty sure that CTC use NZ and then throw all their cadets at European airlines!!!

Do it in Florida, It can be done quickly, at a good price and with great people.

When Ryanair refuse your 30,000E because you didn't train in Poland message me as I have gone wrong somewhere with my research :ok::ok::ok:

[duewest]

Training in the US will pepare you quickly for any other countries requirements. You work hard for your money, work hard in training and demand excellence. The US is far less bureacratic than other countries. Your license should cost you around $45K to $50K plus housing. Once finished, you will then be obligated to convert your license to your indigenous country.


Fair Winds my friend!

[paco]

I would still recommend you do at least the PPL in EASA airspace - it helps your navigation no end!

[custardpsc]

Crackedcay, with respect, you need to do some more research and some self study on all of this and make your own mind up on it. Everyone has to start somewhere but most of what you are asking has been debated long and hard on pprune and some time spent reading the debates might be a good start to understanding the whole process such as visas etc. Read the visa and tsa threads in the private and commercial sections on here and you may see that it is not a simple matter to get a faa ppl. Note thesticky threads are there to answer questions such as yours. Posting beginnerz questions without doing your homework usually doent get much of a useful response. Ask some detailled questions once you have got your head around it and people will be generally glad to help.

Did you read this sticky yet ? http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/278995-guide-obtaining-jaa-ppl-us-part-1-a.html

That does discuss most of what you need to know at first, should help

[peterh337]

I don't think you can do the JAA IR outside JAA-land.

You can do the PPL, CPL in the USA for example but not the IR.

I have heard a rumour that one can do some of the hours towards the JAA IR in the USA but never saw any supporting reference for that.

I have some notes here (http://www.peter2000.co.uk/aviation/jaa-ir/).

[BigGrecian]

ORA.ATO.150 from COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) No 290/2012 allows EASA IR training to be conducted outside EASA member states (i.e the USA)

When the ATO is approved to provide training for the instrument rating (IR) in third countries:
(a) the training programme shall include acclimatisation flying in one of the Member States before the IR skill test is taken; and
(b) the IR skill test shall be taken in one of the Member States.

There is only one school European Flight Training (http://www.flyeft.com) which currently hold approval for this.

[squall1984]

Whoever said cost of living in Florida is expensive is very wrong. If you do housing thru a flight school it will always be more e pensive than doing it yourself, obv they want to make money off that too. My friends have a house near the school they each pay $400 a month in rent...so unless you live at home in Europe it's prob cheaper in Florida. Hourly rates in the US is typically cheaper than Europe because g is cheap. As for training in European airspace e compared to US I don't believe it matters, professional pilots fly envywhere.

My advice is do your ppl in Europe, it will ensure that you are 100% certain is is what you want to do before you move across the world. Once you have a easa ppl you can easily (very easily) get it validated in the US so you can hour Build there at a lower cost. Many schools in the US so the FAA all the way thru then so EASA single and multi engine afterwards, I'm not sure if its best since you'll never use the FAA license so like someone said check with CAA, find,out the hours involved with each course and do the math between Europe and UK.

One major major advantage of Florida is the weather. It's pretty stable year round except for the wet months which really aren't bad, you won't be impeded with icing etc.

[CrackedCay]

custardpsc, thanks for that. I know I'm probably jumping into the deep end asking those sort of questions, and I probably do need to do some more homework! I'm quite new to this, and didn't know the stickies existed. Thanks for the link, I'll check them out!

Regards.

[pablo]

In the US there are other places like California and Arizona. Arizona is relatively cheap and the weather is fine all year (summer can be warm though).

I don't know wether training in the US makes economic sense or not anymore, but one big advantage as some of the guys pointed out is the weather, so that you can fly for several months in a row, non-stop.
Weather can be atrocious in some parts of Europe for PPL training. If you can only fly weekends and miss the "spring-summer" window to do your flying it may become frustrating.

Here squall also has a very good point.
My advice is do your ppl in Europe, it will ensure that you are 100% certain is is what you want to do before you move across the world. Once you have a easa ppl you can easily (very easily) get it validated in the US so you can hour Build there at a lower cost.

By the way, flying in the US is not just cheaper because of gas, but most airfields do not charge landing fees, there are no ATC fees for IFR flying, renting airport space for training facilities is cheaper, etc...
If it was just because of gas, renting the average light trainer would be maybe... 5-10€ cheaper?

[Pitdweller]

I already have an FAA ATP and several thousand hours in Airbus and Boeing. What are the best schools in or outside the US for a conversion. The only school I'm finding that mentions high time conversions is Gulf Coast. Are there others that I am missing?

[itsbrokenagain]

Pitdweller, you really have 2 good choices in Florida...

In order of preference:
1. EASA License Exam | EASA Conversion | EASA Training (http://www.easalicense.com) - Gulf Coast Training Solutions at KFPR
Great modern up to date course material and constantly updated questions in the DB for the conversion. Busy school working out of the same building as EFT and Aviators. Great course prices too. They have a pretty good website and the instructors are always ready to answer your questions any day of the week.

2. Naples Air Center (http://www.naples-air-center.com) - Naples Air Center at KAPF
One of the original JAA/EASA ground schools and flight schools in the USA and still in business ! Has got a lot smaller in the last couple of years, but recently the CGI moved on and was replaced which has greatly improved the atmosphere of the school. Materials are ok I hear, question bank and support for Distance learning still seems lacking from reports.

Contact both and sound them out, your impression by calling and talking will help you seal the deal everyone has a different viewpoint on these 2 schools, they both produce passes for their students.

[zondaracer]

If you are a high time pilot looking to do a conversion, and you have over 500 hours on multi pilot airplanes, then you should be looking for somewhere where you can do your 14 exams and find a simulator in Europe of the same airplane in which you are type rated. Lots of guys have been going to Bristol Groundschool for these types of conversions for the theory. There are also some other choices around.

As far as NAC, I would stay away.

[gusting_45]

Crackedcay.

I went the Florida route many years ago (also from IRL) so any information from my experience is well and truly out of date. All of the advice that you have received from other posters, good as I'm sure all of it is, relates to training and licensing etc.

I would advise you, before you do anything else, to go and have a class 1 medical conducted just to ensure that there are no issues lurking there to trip you up.

It would be a great shame to to invest a lot of time, effort and money in pursuing your dream only to discover that you couldn't fulfil your ambition anyway.

Other than that, assuming that you get to a flight school one day, keep a sharp eye on what you are being charged for. Sadly there are a lot of shysters and thieves out there who would steal the eyes out of your head in an instant. If they know you are monitoring them you should be okay.

I wish you all the best. From one whose dream became reality.