Luton and Stansted CTR transits

[hegemon88]

Hi everyone!

I am starting a new thread as adding posts to those 4 and 5 years old on the same subject doesn't seem to yield responses. I am a PPL based near the Stansted zone and I'm after some suggestions (ideally from relevant ATC unit if you guys are reading this?) as to the VFR routes through the Stansted and Luton CTRs which are easiest to handle for the controllers and maximise the chance of me getting the clearance. My initial guess would be to cross at a right angle to the extended rwy centreline, any other suggestions for me to take into account? Goes without saying that I have tried to do my homework, will call as early before the zone boundary as possible, have a plan B, think before I transmit etc. etc. Before anyone asks, I am not trying to save 5 minutes of flying time (which I may not) but am after the extraordinary views and a sense of achievement after the successful transit.

Any times of the day/week better than others? Due to fewer arrivals/departures from EGGW/EGSS?

Any suggestions gratefully received!

Thanks,



H88

[ChrisA87]

Morning,

I'm also hoping to make my first transit of the Stansted CTR soon so interested to see some of the replies to this.

Have you seen the Control Zone and Control Area Chart - Entry/Exit Lanes and VRPs - Transponder Mandatory Zones chart at NATS | AIS - Home (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=96&Itemid=145.html) ?

[soaringhigh650]

Have you never been taught how to do controlled airspace transits during your PPL training? I am surprised. What flight school do you go to? :rolleyes:

[hegemon88]

ChrisA87 - thanks, I was aware of the VFR route through the Luton zone, haven't looked at Stansted AIP entry though, v.useful. Re: Stansted, I have read a lot about them often rejecting VFR transit requests but I admit that all threads I read were quite old.

soaringhigh650 - please note that I am not asking how to do the transit itself. I am after specific advice from those who recently flew VFR through one of these two zones and got the clearance (or are controllers and want to tell me to stay away or come at a specific time to be more likely to get through).


H88

[Vlad the Imbiber]

Both are doable, but as Stansted is busier there is more chance of having to wait longer there for your transit or even being refused.

With Stansted the best tip is to listen in on the approach frequency (Essex RAD 120.62) for a few minutes first, before calling them up, to try to gauge the situation -- if there are nose-to-tail transmissions then I'd not bother calling; but if there are good gaps, call 'em up and ask.

In terms of time of day the middle of the day is probably less busy.

They will probably route you via the landing threshold.

[Scott C]

Last February, I transited straight overhead Stansted twice. I just called the controller, relayed my intentions and asked for a transit... It was on a Saturday afternoon too.

[soaringhigh650]

soaringhigh650 - please note that I am not asking how to do the transit itself. I am after specific advice from those who recently flew VFR through one of these two zones and got the clearance (or are controllers and want to tell me to stay away or come at a specific time to be more likely to get through).

Okay I see. Best then to look at the airport's website and their arrivals and departures schedule. This will give you a better idea of when you are more likely to get clearance.

[All-The-Nines]

According to my logbook I've transited Stansted a total of 8 times in the last 2 years and Luton twice - I've not been denied once (yet!).

With Luton you have the prescribed lane, both times I stuck to this and it was very simple - they normally just ask you to report at each VRP and to hold short of crossing the active runway until they give you the go ahead.

With Stansted it's much more unpredictable. The key thing is they don't really like letting you in if it's a bit pointless, if you're just cutting a corner for example. However, if you need to actually get across the zone either width-ways or length-ways, they'll accommodate you if they can but do expect long periods of orbiting. I think it's useful for the controllers if you can give them a a position according to one of their VRP's so that they know exactly where you plan to enter/exit. Once I was told to hold for approx 15 mins near Audley End VRP before they finally let me in, another time I was in almost straight away but then had to orbit short of the runway for about 10 mins. Once they sent me 'over the active threshold no higher than 1500ft' and made me change to the tower controller whilst overhead (which was great!), another time they routed me over the top of Bishop's Stortford, and then through the ILS track several miles away from the runway whilst keeping me on the radar frequency only.

The key thing I always stick to which seems to work is:

Initial Call: "Essex radar, this is G-ABCD, request zone transit"
Essex Radar: " Standby"
Wait anything between 30 seconds and 5 minutes.
Essex Radar: "G-ABCD, squawk 1234"
Me: "Squawk 1234, G-ABCD"
Essex Radar: "G-ABCD, identified 2 miles north of Audley End, pass your message"
Me: "G-ABCD, 2 miles north of Audley End, 1500ft QNH 1013, from Cambridge to North Weald, request zone transit Audley End to Great Dunmow via your overhead"

Then wait and follow instructions!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Wot about IFR transits then? Are these

(a) more attractive to the controller, because they can give you vectors and don't have to worry about your VFR navigation abilities or lack thereof

(b) less attractive to controllers, because its much harder to arrange IFR-IFR separation

or what? What if you say "can accept VFR or IFR" or "can accept vectors"?

[hegemon88]

I am reviving this thread as in another thread I have read that the Entry/Exit Lane for Luton CTR has become less relevant over the years. So: do you think that it will make a clearance less likely to obtain if I ask for a route A1(M) Jct 4 - Kimpton Hall - Luton overhead - then out of the zone DCT Cranfield as opposed to along the lane, M1 Jct 8 - Luton overhead - Pirton?

I know I'll need to ask ATC on the day etc. etc., I am just asking the question round to save myself putting a route into SkyDemon if getting it is extremely unlikely.

We're talking VFR and I can accept (and fly) vectors.

Regards,



/h88

[Local Variation]

From my experiences, the answer is yes.

I've transited Luton many times and they've been superb. The entry point has always been as defined, eg Pirton to the north. But dependent on where you are routing to once you cross the runway, they do seem to present you with the option of a direct track on route outside of the lane, without you having to ask.

[YODI]

Luton are very friendly and will always let you transit if they can, my only tip is sound confident with your RT and you wont have an issue, they even let you cross with traffic inbound.

Dont waste your time looking at in and outbound flights in my opinion it doesn't matter.

Do it, great experience and views

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/rsyodi/Flying/IMG_2752_zps50f10ffa.jpg

[Dave Wilson]

I've been routed over the threshold at Luton with landing traffic, no probs they are very friendly.

[good egg]

If anyone wants any tips on London City CTR transits feel free to pm me

[Steve6443]

Nice pic, Yodi......

[AndoniP]

Haha Yodi was that when we went up?? :ok:

[YODI]

Indeed it was :)

[SidT]

Recently requested a transit through the Stansted zone when heading back from Cambridge to North Weald. Nothing more than a "corner cut" and was prepared to be denied.

Had routed to the Barkway (BKY) VOR and then called them up after listening in for a few minutes to judge traffic.

They were most helpful and gave us pretty much a direct transit through. This was Thursday 28th November about 15:45 L.

Be friednly, confident with the RT and obviously obey instructions and they will be as helpful one of Santa's Elves. Don't get disappointed if they don't permit you though.

[Dave Wilson]

Have to add that I was transitting Doncaster the other day and they step climbed a pax jet to stay out of my way. How cool is that. Either that or they know I'm a dodgy pilot...:}

[hegemon88]

Hello again,

I did it! :cool: On the 6th of December I flew from North Weald to Cranfield and back, flying between the CTRs on my way there but daring to ask Luton for clearance on my return in the afternoon. I called Luton from above Flitwick, gave position report and route, and expected a detailed clearance through a dozen of VRPs. Instead of that I was treated like a prince, given a VFR clearance through Luton overhead, suggested traffic service after the zone and a telephone-coordinated clearance through Stansted CTA (without asking!) so that I can smoothly glide into North Weald without descending too rapidly :D Wow! I want more now :E

Thank you for all advice, and thank you Luton Radar people if you're reading this.



/h88

[Dave Wilson]

Glad all went well Hedge but don't forget that's what they are there for! Can count on one hand the number of times I've been denied a crossing of anywhere (Leeds/Bradford if you must ask) and have always received the most helpful of services. Can't understand the fear some folk have of crossing class D, although I appreciate that some folk do fear it.

[Straighten Up]

I took a flight from Stapleford up to Sherburn (just NW of Doncaster) on Monday. On the way out departing on 22 at Stapleford, and with a right turn out, it was only an extra few minutes to go via BPK and through the middle of the STN and LTN zones so I did that. On the way back though, to save a longer trip around the circuit (and to be honest to get a big or practice in), I planned to transit, BKY to Great Dunmow across the 05 threshold at STN.

I made my call about 10 miles from BKY at 4000ft, but initial response was to remain OCAS during controller handover. This resulted in an S turn and quick descent to duck under 2500. I was then given the clearance to enter the zone initially not above 2500 then as I got to the CTR, not above 1500. I was asked to transit over Bishops Stortford, which took me across the extended centreline about 5 miles or so from the threshold. The controllers were helpful and polite although obviously extremely busy.....Ryanair this and Monarch that....constantly.

The thing I kept telling myself is that it is no different transitting here than transitting Doncaster or even any of the MATZ I'd been through that day. Work out what you are going to say before you key the mic and go for it.

[hegemon88]

And hello again,

It took me some time to fly a route which would be suitable for a Stansted CTR transit, but patience is a virtue... On last Sunday of 2014 I received not one but two clearances to cross VFR, one on my way from Stapleford to Cambridge, the other on my way back :E The Essex Radar frequency didn't sound too busy and there were virtually no delays, however it wasn't completely quiet either - in the picture below you will see four Ryanair 737s while the fifth one is heading right towards us on its final approach to land.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/v/t1.0-9/553319_10205508138885891_415007298392149663_n.jpg?oh=4b1f59f bdcd87d73deeccc60f4727047&oe=55422E0C&__gda__=1428361797_9a7e5496552825ad8095a32c17e9a0be

On both occasions I was able to fly close to a straight line at 2,000 ft. Not a huge time gain but every little helps as they say, especially if you depart 5 minutes to sunset.


/h88