Captain 'Winkle' Brown (merged)

[PAXboy]

BBC online today: BBC News - Captain 'Winkle' Brown: Is he the greatest pilot ever? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-22254048)

One quote:
Over his career, he flew 487 different types of aircraft, a world record that is unlikely ever to be matched.Obviously the headline is pure journo hyperbole and an insult to every other test pilot that, but the story is good.

PS Just found his Wiki page: Eric Brown (pilot) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Brown_%28pilot%29)

[teeteringhead]

Had the privilege of chatting to Capt Brown a little while ago, after an RAF Historical Society meeting at Hendon.

We were chatting about his involvement in taking over 3rd Reich aviation technology after the War, and he happened to drop into the conversation - quite naturally - "Well, Goering told me ........".

Turns out that Winkle was a fluent German speaker as well as a TP, so was the obvious man to do the "technical debrief" with Hermann G in the cells at Nuremburg, just before he topped himself.

It really was a stunning moment, Teeters having a glass of red in the 21st Century with someone who had spoken - airman to airman - with Goering. :eek:

Definitely an "I danced with a man who danced with a girl who danced with the Prince of Wales." type story which I shall always remember.

[toffeez]

He was at the liberation of Bergen Belsen concentration camp. "What we saw was just unbelievable," he said. There were piles of bodies as high as this roof, and a lot of people walking around like zombies, no idea what was going on at all. They were just half dead.

"They had taken a bulldozer and bulldozed the bodies into a pit. They were lying in terribly grotesque positions, arms and legs all over the place.
That's not what really got to me. It was this appalling stench. It still does stick in my gullet."
.

[B Fraser]

In the 487 different types, "Spitfire" counts as a single entry.

My neighbour tells me a story that E W-B was being quizzed about his pioneering work on landing jets on carriers. He asked the name of the chap who had engaged him in conversation. "Neil Armstrong" was the answer.

Absolutely top bloke. His comments on Hannah Reitsch were quite revealing.

[PAXboy]

Having read the complete articel and his Wikipedia entry - I was 'smacked in the gob' as they say.

A truly astounding career which also demonstrates where luck comes in of being in the right place at the right time but THEN being able to make the most of the opportunity.

Apparently the number of 'Mks' of Spit and Seafire was more than 14!

[Loki]

Have just started re reading "Wings on My Sleeve" (yet again). Fascinating stuff. Have just got to the bit where he's invoved in landing the Mosquito on carriers.

[JEM60]

LOKI. I have it on my bookshelf, autographed by the great man himself, with a personal message to me, a mere lowly PPL at the time. Lovely man, one of the best after dinner speakers EVER.

[P6 Driver]

Some years ago, a facsimile reproduction of the Stanford-Tuck Flying Log Books was published.

If the logs of Capt. Brown were to be published in similar fashion, I would pay handsomely for a copy. Wings on my Sleeve is a superb book - his log books would be a pefect companion.

[CharlieOneSix]

I was privileged to have served on a couple of BHAB committees which Winkle chaired back in the 1970's. An amazing man!

[rmcb]

Great sounding guy - last Saturday's iPM - can be found here:

BBC Radio 4 - iPM, 20/04/2013 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rw940)

[underfire]

Very interesting article...and must be a hell of a mate to sit down and have a beer with...

"Eric Brown must rank as the most extraordinary airman alive. Indeed, open his memoirs at any page and you are left asking a single question: how on earth did this modest Scotsman live to tell the tale?
But Captain Eric ‘Winkle’ Brown RN is very much alive and in sparkling form as he pours me a glass of sherry at his West Sussex home and reflects on an astonishing life. This is the man who has flown more aircraft than anyone else in history.
He was the first man to fly a jet on and off an aircraft carrier. He has set aviation records that will almost certainly never be broken and is revered as one of the greatest test pilots of all time."

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/07/article-2320463-0DF770AF00000578-346_634x411.jpg


Read more: ROBERT HARDMAN: Hero Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown, who makes Biggles look like a wimp, tells his story | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2320463/ROBERT-HARDMAN-Hero-Captain-Eric-Winkle-Brown-makes-Biggles-look-like-wimp-tells-story.html#ixzz2fC7MWOYF)
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[Allan Lupton]

I was going to ask why this wasn't added to the existing thread, but I find that, for some reason I don't understand, the active threads on this section finish after 3½ pages.
It follows that
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/513187-captain-winkle-brown.html
must be archived somewhere so can't easily be found, despite being last posted to in April this year.
ETA Can a mod merge threads or have we to put up with yet more duplication?

[underfire]

Sorry, the 'search' function on these boards is not very good...

[Allan Lupton]

I knew the thread existed, as I had posted on it not that long ago, so I just searched for "Winkle" and got it.

[TheiC]

A wonderful gentleman and a uniquely inspiring speaker. What a pleasure to be in his company, if only for a while.

[peregrineh]

Saw the man speak last week. Aged 94, spoke from memory and in support standing up for 1.5 hours - incredible, his book Wings on my Sleeve one of best books I have ever read.

[Aquatone1]

This great man and aviator recently signed my copy of his book "Miles M 52" and, replying to my enquiry, he told me that he had completed 2407 carrier landings! An astonishing number and surely a world record unlikely to be broken.

[4Greens]

Does that include touch and goes?

[Genghis the Engineer]

and an insult to every other test pilot that

I've several times experienced that a very large proportion of the world's test pilots will happily take a day out of their time to hear Eric speak, queue for some time to shake his hand or have a word, and the vast majority consider their own achievements to be rather inferior.

By and large they don't seem to regard Chuck Yeager in the same light, although the late Neil Armstrong would have had similar treatment to EwB.

G

[Allan Lupton]

Quote
Does that include touch and goes?

I think you will find that "touch and go" is not an option with deck landings.
Moreover "touch and go" was not something one did with a tailwheel undercarriage, and a lot of the aeroplanes in Capt. Brown's list of deck landings have that configuration.

[Genghis the Engineer]

It's called a "bolter" on a carrier isn't it?

G

[4Greens]

Touch and goes are genuine. They are done with the wires usually flat and the hook up. It is a way of practising approaches and is standard in the jet age. When the Boss was happy you were told to put the hook down for the actual landing. They do not merit a log book entry as a deck landing.

[Aquatone1]

I specifically asked Capt. Brown for the number of his carrier landings, sadly did not think to enquire about touch and goes. But was not most of his test flying in the days preceeding introduction of the angled deck, when touch and goes were less frequent?

Re Chuck Yeager, I would love to ask him how helpful was the Miles all flying tailplane.;)

[AtomKraft]

rmcb

Thanks for posting that link. I'd missed the original, fascinating, broadcast.

:ok:

[TheiC]

This Wednesday evening, Captain Brown will be speaking at the Museum of Army Flying, Middle Wallop. Details and bookings through this link:

November 27, 2013 | The Museum Of Army FlyingThe Museum Of Army Flying (http://www.armyflying.com/2013/11/27/)

See you there perhaps.

Edited to say: hoping the Mods won't say this is advertising... I have no connection with the museum other than being a regular visitor.

[TheiC]

The event is now fully booked...

[54Phan]

I finished reading "Wings On My Sleeve" last week. A great book indeed!

[rocco16]

WB also did some deck landings without undercarriage - they couldn't be touch and goes!

[semmern]

Absolutely top man. I had the honour of attending one of his lectures at Sola Air Show here in Norway last year. What a memory he has. Quick-firing specs on the Me-262, He-163, numerous marques of Spits and whatnot from the hip at the age of 93 as if he last flew them all yesterday! He also had some stories from when he ferried Arado 234s from Sola, where the airshow was, to the UK in 1945. Even greater for me personally was that I got to have a few words with him later that day, and he signed my logbook...and the inside of the luggage hatch of the Tiger Moth I flew to the show. A coat of clear lacquer now covers that signature, needless to say!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/semmern/Sola2012/Solaairshow08-100612407.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/semmern/Sola2012/Solaairshow08-100612412.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/semmern/Sola2012/IMG_0598.jpg

[Treble one]

And was quite surprised to see that Captain Brown was originally RAFVR, and only went into the RN as the RAF didn't seem to want any pilots at the time!


Interesting that he was in Germany when war was declared and they captured him and threw him out. Extraordinary. I wonder how different things may have turned out without his extraordinary career and the aviation developments he was involved in.

[JEM60]

Why this superb man has not been knighted has always been a mystery to me!!!.
I have 'Wings on my sleeve' signed by him at one of his totally unmissable after dinner talks.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Why this superb man has not been knighted has always been a mystery to me!!!.

I agree totally.

Maybe we could have a go at some kind of campaign. This country owes him so much, but a knighthood would be a fair acknowledgment of that. It is possible to make nominations online these days and possibly just nobody has?

G

[aviate1138]

On another forum I pointed out that before Mr Beckham is knighted surely the likes of Capt Eric Brown and many, many others deserve the title.

The title Sir Eric Brown should be a given. Wake up you bestowers of Knighthoods!

[CharlieOneSix]

Well, we have it in our power to nominate Eric Brown for an award although you cannot specify which one you want for him. Your nomination will require two letters of support. Look here: https://www.gov.uk/honours/nominate-someone-in-the-uk

[Mick Strigg]

Surely it's time he was "Sir Eric"?

[2 TWU]

Can anyone shed some light on a passage from Captain Brown's excellent book?

Talking about the US bombers, Winkle states:-

"Then the Americans introduced two-seat, long range versions of the Thunderbolt and Mustang to give then escort cover. Each fighter carried two pilots. The pilot in the rear cockpit flew the machine to the target area and handed it over to the front pilot for combat. They were so successful in keeping off the 190s and 109s that the bombers began to achieve alarming results. The 163 was the countermeasure"

I've not heard of this before, certainly 2 seat Mustangs exist today but were there such beasts in WW11 and were they used as stated? Similarly the Thunderbolt, certainly big enough for 2 seats but did any exist and were they used as escorts?

The classic reference to the size of the Thunderbolt has to be the remarks of a pilot when asked what they did to evade enemy fighters, "Easy" he said, "we just unstrap and run around the fuselage"!

[Union Jack]

Well, we have it in our power to nominate Eric Brown for an award although you cannot specify which one you want for him.

When I last met him, Captain Brown certainly had a CBE (Mil), which I'm certain was awarded whilst he was still serving, so a recommendation for a further honour would logically appear to be a knighthood.:ok:

Jack

[CharlieOneSix]

As well as the CBE Winkle's other post-nominals are DSC and AFC.

[Mypyrex]

I had the privileges of meeting and speaking with him back in August when he unveiled the Cody statue at Farnborough. My father had met and worked with him during WWII and spoke highly of him.

[grow45]

I discovered recently that he is a former pupil of the same school (Royal High, Edinburgh) that my children go to and in 2011 was guest of honour at the annual prize giving. Neither of my boys won anything so I missed hearing him speak but there is an account of his visit in the school magazine at http://www.royalhigh.edin.sch.uk/media/pdf/2013/11/The_Royal_High_Reporter_Edited.pdf . Scroll down to page 10.

Just thought it might be of interest and add another aspect to the life of a remarkable man.

g45