No A-Levels?

[tobster911]

Hello, just a quick question, but, are my chances of landing a job with an airline (if you'll pardon the pun) much lower if I don't have A-Levels? I have good GCSE results, but A-Levels are just proving to be too much for me, and all I've ever wanted to do is fly...

Any help greatly appreciated

[BAe 146-100]

GCSE's are enough, you just need money and lots of it. If you have access to money and you are reasonably intelligent you won't go far wrong apart from the wait to get a job, which is why if you decide to put money on a property you have to be able to pay the loans back comfortably, so your parents don't risk loosing their house.

[pudoc]

It's more about how well you do in your flight training as opposed to how well you do in school.

[tobster911]

Thanks everyone... The 'biggest issue' I have is that, I don't know whether it's better to start earning money and forget A-Levels, so I have a start to be able to afford flight training. OR, I can continue, not earn any money, and potentially (likely) make a 'pigs ear' out of my A-Levels, and still effectively just leave school with my good GCSEs...

Any help?

[spider_man]

You've probably chosen the wrong A level subjects for you or something.

I was never an academic but forced myself to work extremely hard from the age of 11 to get streamed into the higher ability groups at GCSE, especially for maths, science subjects etc. achieving A*-B. However I found A Levels in Physics, Maths, etc a completely different ball game. I really wanted to do Business studies, Economics, Geography or History! I didn't complete the courses and went into the world of work at 17. Could you re-course and start year 1 again?

20 months to complete your A levels would be a sound investment. Its your last chance at FREE education in the UK. As already stated, you will need them for FFP, CTC, University, etc.

Will having no A Levels stop you from getting a flying job later? No, not necessarily. I was invited to interview by BA with just GCSE's (but as a Direct Entry Pilot with 7 years on Boeing). However, some expat jobs require college/university level education (Korean for 777/747/A330).

In todays industry I think they are pretty much essential for entry in commercial aviation training and thereafter to achieve your first job as a cadet pilot. A levels with average or poor grading will serve you better than no qualifications at all.

[AnotherWannabe]

I haven't done any flight training or theory yet (I hope to in the future), but one thing is for sure:
If you can't handle A-levels, you'll struggle with passing 14 flight theory exams/number of exams depending on what licence you want I guess.
If you do A levels , you will be mentally prepared and you'll know that your brain can be pushed to its limits and that you won't drop out on the 10th lesson because you simply can't memorise and learn the stuff during your theory part of training.
I'd say probably Geography and Physics would be quite useful , even if you only do these two A levels, they will help you with your theory studies.

[Superpilot]

Would you say you're work shy and afraid of challenging yourself? Are you capable of learning new (and difficult) things and adapting to change? Do you fear complex tasks? Are you content with what you have or would you rather try to improve yourself but risk failure in the process?

Genuine questions that may be asked of you one day by a prospective employer upon wondering why you have no A' Levels and the other 5 candidates sitting outside do.

[AnotherWannabe]

I have to disagree. I've met quite a few pilots who don't have any fancy qualifications and were able to pass groundschool (some had even been out of education for years!) Wasn't easy but do-able.

Ok, I take back what I said about the theory being that hard.
Still, an A level definitely won't hurt and it leaves your options open for the future.
To the OP, you don't have to do 3-4 A levels, you can do as many as you want.
You can do 1-2 A levels that you are really interested in.

[pudoc]

I did do A-levels. Waste of time really. Got a U in Math and Physics. I spent too much time reading FCOMs for 737s and A320s as opposed to my school books.

How well you do in A-levels has absolutely zero relevance to how well you do in ATPL theory.

In todays industry I think they are pretty much essential for entry in commercial aviation training and thereafter to achieve your first job as a cadet pilot.

In January, I went from my flight school to Boeing job at a European airline in 6 days, no a-levels, no contacts, no P2F, no cadet scheme and at a modular school with no airline links.

Partly luck, partly because I did everything in my power to make sure I got that job. But yes, A-levels will help.

Sadly, airlines like to use crap filters like a-levels. Totally unfair IMO, you can't categorise people who went to earn money to be a pilot 2 years earlier. But it's a filter you need to bypass or avoid.

If you think you'll do well, do them. If not, why waste time?

[seymoreskye]

I tried my hand at A-Levels but nothing stood out that I wanted to do so I just picked the 4 "easiest" ones, 3 months later I dropped out as I realized I was just wasting mine and everyone else's time!

Always had a passion for Aviation but never tried hard in school/college but now during this flight training I am like a whole new person!

Even so much to say that I am enjoying doing the ATPLs and the scores are reflecting my effort!

Do what you feel passionate about and your end result will always be a positive one!

AnotherWannabe,

I disagree, the ATPLs are just a stepping stone and actually take more commons sense than anything to get the scores. Good basic knowledge of Maths & Physics will always be advantageous but like the above poster, Theres a chap in my course (ex door-door salesman) who is 42, and he is breezing it!

[clvf88]

I'm rather astounded at this thread. I agree that there is perhaps some merit in the 'university or not' debate, but I certainly don't think there is any here. Point and case is the new Etihad cadet scheme, where a degree is a minimum entry requirement.

Your qualifications are all about separating yourself from the other hoards vying for that rare opportunity. To do well in the ATPL theoretical examinations takes a lot of dedication, and if you are unable to achieve even an average grade at A-Level you must seriously question your ability to proceed with your professional training.

In my opinion, this is a no brainer. If you want to fly, then get your head down and start studying; I'm certain you are perfectly capable if you apply yourself fully.

[Mikehotel152]

How well you do in A-levels has absolutely zero relevance to how well you do in ATPL theory.

No offence but I think that's utter nonsense. More dumbing down of the profession and no small wonder that we are likened to bus drivers and paid accordingly!

GCSEs aren't worth the cardboard they're printed on. A-Levels are a basic standard of education. Do them for your own sake. Get an education! The ATPLs are hard if you actually want to learn the subject matter rather than simply parrot learn the multiple choice exams.

But seriously, if you think you can learn ATPL theory and ultimately pilot an airliner, with all the complexities that involves, you should be quite capable of getting a reasonable grade at A-Level. If not, well, I refer you to my first paragraph.

[Fly1000]

I agree with the guys saying A Levels are probably a good thing to have. It is incredibly competitive and not having done A levels will possibly make it harder for your CV to stand out amongst the piles and piles of others trying to get the first job.
All airline cadet schemes as far as I know have a minimum requirement of A levels and some also require degrees.
Showing that you can study and apply yourself academically is important.
Additionally, the theory exams are relatively hard - there is a lot to learn and some of it is A level standard.
Not having A levels does not mean you are stupid - of course it doesn't, but maybe you have picked the wrong subjects. I would really recommend continuing with them or, if they aren't the right ones for you, take a break and start again next year with subjects which do suit you and which you can have success in.
Other posters are right - there are many pilots out there without 'fancy' qualifications, but many of them come from military backgrounds, or are older and perhaps had previous careers which set them out from the rest. Nowadays, for your first job I would say at the very least you need decent A level. A degree is more helpful, life and job experience is even more beneficial - basically, you need everything you can get your hands on to show future employers what an asset you will be to their company!

[Torque Tonight]

Have to agree with most of the above. Having GCSEs only puts you towards the bottom end of the educational achievement spectrum, and in a employment market where companies can afford to be very choosey indeed that will be a very obvious and easy way to filter you out of the selection process. You'll be competing for jobs against people who tick ALL the boxes - what will you bring to the party?

To be more general, with the overall devaluation of qualifications I'd say a degree was the new baseline for most careers, and unless you are a future Branson or Sugar, having the bare minimum education isn't going to give you the best chances in life. The application form for Starbucks ask you what A-levels you have.

[Flying Mechanic]

A good friend, the first exams he ever passed where his 14 Atpl subjects, he left school at 14, he's a skipper now.

[EZY_FR]

Do your A-levels, it will open up your options quite significantly, especially in this day and age. Some airlines don't accept students with no A-levels; BA FPP requires A-levels or a Uni degree on top of your GSCEs. It doesn't hurt to do it, and you can use the qualifications gained from school to help get a better job to get experience that these Airlines love to hear during interviews. If you do decide to do it though, make sure you choose what you want to do, rather than just subjects that you feel will help.

[seymoreskye]

Simple matter also is that A Levels are free to do and offer you a good fall back option if all else fails.

I do not have A-Levels as I chose to go straight into the travel sector with a Blue bucket and spade operation but I would say that the more qualifications you have, the less harm it will have towards your employment chances, both in Aviation & Outside.

I sit on the fence....:eek:

[Depone]

A good friend, the first exams he ever passed where his 14 Atpl subjects, he left school at 14, he's a skipper now.

There will always be misleading examples like this. If he left school at 14, who is to say he wasn't bright enough to get GCSEs and then A-Levels? In fact, passing the ATPLs proves he could have.

[Desert Budgie]

A-Levels are not a requirement. However a great advantage when it comes to screening for new candidates. By not doing your A-Levels (or an equivalent qualification) it will not tell how good you are at flying an aircraft, however an employer may look at those results (or lack of results)
as an idea of your ability and motivation to study and successfully complete courses. In aviation an employer could be looking at 2 CVs. Both candidates have similar flying experience, good personalities, you can barely tell them apart. However one candidate had three C grade A-Levels and the other didn't complete them at all. Who do you pick?

I would go one step further. Go to University, college or gain some other sort of further education prior to beginning your flight training. Not just for making your application look better to aviation employers, but so you have a fall back in case your flying endeavours don't work out. I was recently laid off (December 2012) and was screwed. I didn't have the best A-Level grades, never went to university, no trades apart from being a pilot. I was an unfrozen ATPL holder, 5000 hours total time, 2700PIC on medium and heavy turboprops, type rating examiner. Sounds like reasonable qualifications for flying, but what on earth was I going to do other than fly? Who was going to look at those qualifications and hire me to do anything else? Unless you have other airline qualifications you have obtained while employed like being involved in management, conducting other ground courses such as CRM, DG, synthetic flight instruction or examining etc, your flying qualifications let you do just that. Fly and that's it.

Fortunately after 5 months of being unemployed I was employed at a respectable company and offered a management position along with a flying position on a common modern jet. But I was extremely lucky. I have a wife and kid to support and was freaking out about what the hell I was going to do to bring in any sort of decent income with a job other than piloting aircraft. And all along I was wishing I had some other trade to fall back on. Made me sick to the stomach regretting how I didn't go to college or gain some real world experience in another trade prior to entering into this incredibly volatile industry.

Moral of the story. Can you get into this industry without A-Levels, diplomas or degrees? Absolutely. Is it a good idea? No, terrible. Avoid listening to stories of guys having successful careers without gaining certain tertiary qualifications. Listen to the thousands of horror stories of guys out of work losing their houses because they didn't have a fall back. I was nearly one of them, and could be again some way down the line.

[Wilton Shagpile]

A levels will help you get noticed in the job market and will open up opportunities at the entry level that you might otherwise not be eligible for. However, they're not much of a backup in life unless of course you lose your medical you are able to go to university mid-career to change direction.

If you get into aviation and land a job, do your A-levels part time if you have to at an adult college. Education in NEVER a waste. I remember doing all sorts of stuff at school and university and it really does broaden your horizons and make you a bit more intellectually agile. IMHO.

[Slow Progress]

I sometimes regret the path I chose after school. I managed to get a job working in the headquarters of an airline straight after completing my GCSE and 20 years later I am still working for said airline with all that aviation experience including PPL and I can’t even apply for entry to training schemes as I don’t have the required bits of paper from college. I get filtered out before anyone even sees me. I would recommend doing A levels.

[parkfell]

By completing your 'A' levels with reasonable grades or better, you are demonstrating that you have an adequate amount of grey matter to any employer and capable of absorbing the technical stuff.
That is not to say all is lost without them for those going down the Modular route. Provided your GCSE maths and physics and English language are sound, then the EASA written exams will not prove to be insurmountable.

Averaging 90%+ in them (all first time passes) will indicate to any employer you may well be the right stuff even without 'A' levels

[parkfell]

bpi

Your story is not uncommon. I know at least two other jet captains who found school totally uninspiring and left with the school thinking they were not capable of achieving anything special. Clearly intelligent, which the school was not able to unlock.
What they both had was an absolute passion and determination to commit aviation.
They both went back to night school to get the maths (sums) up to speed.
CPL exams first, followed by the ATPL Nav block, as was pre JAR/EASA.
FI route to hour build. The rest they say is history.

The modular route has a lot to offer, and invariably produces a far more rounded individual. Integrated customers who commence training towards their mid twenties have life experience which is also invaluable.

[jamesgrainge]

Does anyone actually check the information you place on your application/CV these days? I'm pretty sure I could have put 10 A* and 4 A's at A level and no one would have known otherwise. Are airlines different in some way?

[Alex Whittingham]

probably not, I was never asked for certificates, other than on joining the RAF IIRC.

[Piltdown Man]

Who are you living for? What is your plan? A Levels are a step in the direction of better pay and more choice. Considering all you have to apply is effort I’d say they were good value for money. They will also prepare your mind fortune brain numbing rubbish that you will have have to learn and regurgitate for the exams. Dare I say it, but a nimble mind will also help you with flying. So develop it. At the same time, you will also gain a little maturity, something essential in this trade. There is nothing worse than sitting next to a one-trick pony who is “living the dream”.

PM

[PilotINOP]

Hello, just a quick question, but, are my chances of landing a job with an airline (if you'll pardon the pun) much lower if I don't have A-Levels? I have good GCSE results, but A-Levels are just proving to be too much for me, and all I've ever wanted to do is fly...

Any help greatly appreciated

its possible but it’s a harder and longer route to get in to. You might have to start small on turbo props and work your way up. I recommend doing A-levels as it will stand out a lot more to airlines. Don’t be too worried if you don’t do well at A-levels though. I know pilots who fly for major airlines with bad GCSEs. It’s just a harder and longer route. So I’d say. Go on to do A-levels and try your hardest but don’t worry too much if you don’t do well, it’s still possible. Good luck!